--:-- Shanita Basu: This is In Conversation from Apple News Today. I'm Shanita Basu. Every weekend, we're taking you deeper into the best journalism on Apple News.
--:-- Shanita Basu: In 2016, a video popped up on YouTube. It showed two little kids, boys five and six years old, throwing their tiny fists at a bigger kid as he walks away. Other children are gathered around watching. Some are yelling. The video has a heavy filter on it, so it's hard to make out faces, but you can see that no one seems to get hurt. It's a pretty unremarkable scene, probably familiar to any parent of young kids.
--:-- Shanita Basu: As a result of that video, 11 children in Rutherford County, Tennessee, were arrested. Not suspended from school or put in timeout. Arrested by the police. The reason police gave for these arrests, they said that children who were bystanders, who ranged in age from 8 to 14 years old, were criminally responsible for not stepping in and stopping the fight.
--:-- Maribah Knight: That crime does not exist. What that episode revealed was this really ugly and unsettling culture in this county of mass detention over years and arresting of children who didn't need to be arrested.
--:-- Shanita Basu: That's Maribah Knight. She's a journalist for Nashville Public Radio, and she reported this story with ProPublica's Ken Armstrong. At the time, in 2016, lots of media outlets picked up the story. But she and Armstrong saw it as an opportunity to ask not only why did this happen, but also is this happening more often than we realize?
--:-- Maribah Knight: And what they found was a disturbing pattern in Rutherford County's juvenile justice system. Hundreds of kids, some as young as seven years old, were locked up every year. Black kids were far more likely to be detained. And what ProPublica found was, in many of these cases, the adults responsible acted illegally.
--:-- Shanita Basu: We should note that the county has denied any wrongdoing. In my conversation with Knight, we talked about how the juvenile justice system in America is like a black box. how it shields the bad behavior of the adults in charge.
--:-- Shanita Basu: But first, I asked her to describe what happened on the day several of those children were arrested at Hopgood Elementary School.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And so it all culminates on this Friday afternoon when these officers come to this school in search of these children. Only four of them are at school that day. Some of them go to other schools, but the vast majority go to this one school.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And so there's these four Black girls that are at school that day, and they come for them. While being arrested, one girl falls to her knees. Another threw up. Police handcuffed the youngest girl, an eight-year-old, with pigtails. They were shocked. They didn't know what was happening.
--:-- Maribah Knight: One girl was on her bus and was literally taken off of her bus and brought to the assistant principal's office and told she was being arrested. She had no idea what was going on.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And yes, they were being arrested for watching this playground scuffle and not stepping in to stop it. And in the days that followed, ultimately, 11 kids were picked up for witnessing this fight.
--:-- Shanita Basu: And it really broke open this system because what happened was the lawsuits just came in. They cascaded in on this mass arrest and they began to pick apart what was happening in this county and it revealed so much.
--:-- Shanita Basu: Wow. Wow. I want to stay for a moment just with the experience for these children. I mean, tell me what happens to these children when they're brought into the detention center. What are their rights as a kid? I mean, does someone read them their Miranda rights?
--:-- Maribah Knight: What that is, is a really scary and traumatic thing. And it kind of progresses as you stay longer because, you know, the booking process accelerates if they decide to keep you overnight.
--:-- Maribah Knight: But essentially, for example, the girl who threw up on the floor, EJ, she was 10 years old. So she's brought in. She is screened. All of her jewelry is taken off. All of her small rings are taken off of her fingers. She is searched, given a 16-point search, and she is put in a holding cell where she waits.
--:-- Maribah Knight: For other children, that kept going. JB, the sister, was taken in, 16-point search, jewelry taken. All of her braids were taken out. That's part of the policy.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Her brother, who was kept overnight, it accelerated. So he is taken in, given a 16-point search, put in a holding cell, then forced to shower naked in front of a guard who is of the same gender.
--:-- Maribah Knight: He is given facility-issued clothing, and he is shackled his hands and his legs, and he is taken to a cell.
--:-- Shanita Basu: Do the children understand what's happening as they're going through this process? I mean, I'm also curious, like, when do their parents get called?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah. That was something we outlined in the story where the police specifically told the principal, do not call the parents. Do not call the parents. Their parents will be called once they get to the detention facility.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And at a certain point, the principal just says, screw it. I'm not following this. I'm calling the parents. So she starts to call the parents. And they start to arrive.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Some come to the school and they are outraged, as you can imagine. And they don't understand what's happening. They were like, what did my kid do?
--:-- Maribah Knight: But they told there is a petition for your child And in that county petitions were treated like warrants for arrest And so what power did they have I mean that was one of the striking things about this
--:-- Shanita Basu: We kind of outline in the story how two of the three police officers there that day do not want this to happen They are utterly, you know, kind of devastated by this.
--:-- Maribah Knight: One officer keeps trying to call up his chain of command to try to get somebody to call this off. Those two officers are Black, and they wonder, would this be happening at a school with mostly white students?
--:-- Maribah Knight: The principal, she doesn't want this to happen. She's like crying, trying to, you know, advocate for her kids. Nobody is listening. So she's scared she's going to get arrested.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So not all the adults in this situation were doing the wrong thing, but nobody was listening to them when they were trying to say, wait, hold on, let's just pause. What are we doing here?
--:-- Shanita Basu: You know, you were starting to talk about how JB got pulled deeper into the process. He was booked. He was kept. What did his experience end up looking like? I mean, he had the full gamut.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So he was arrested at his home in front of his family, in front of his small relatives. And he's 12 years old. 12 years old.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah, his mom said that her three nieces were there very little and they had bad dreams afterwards. They were scared they were going to get arrested. This was a story I heard from all the kids. Like, it was so random. It was so absurd that then they thought, what's going to happen if I go to school? Will I get arrested?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Well, so, but back to JB. So he's, he's arrested. He's handcuffed. He's put in the car. He's driven to the detention facility. He's booked. He has to shower. He has to go in a cell.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Recently, Knight spoke with JB, years after this incident took place. JB's full name is Jacorius Brinkley. He's 18 years old now. Here's what he remembers about being detained.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just stand by the door and try to watch TV. Like a guard just keep on walking past and stuff saying, like, you can't be by the door. You got to sit down. I can't even see the TV.
--:-- Maribah Knight: That's what I'm telling him. He talking about, man, you finna get put on lockdown. Brinkley was eventually put on lockdown, which is another way of saying solitary confinement.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Like they take everything, like your sheets, your cup, you can't even drink water. Like your cup, your toothbrush, everything. They take everything from you. They take everything.
--:-- Shanita Basu: If you're wondering how common this experience was, Knight spoke with another person, Quintarius Frazier, who was at the same facility at around the same time as Brinkley.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Frazier has developmental disabilities. He was 15 years old when facility staff put him in solitary, confining him to a cell for 23 hours a day.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just got used, I got trained to it like an animal. I got trained to them doing me like that. I feel like an animal. I feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So that's exactly how I felt. Like, it ain't nothing I can do right now. I can't read my own type of book. I can't come out myself. I just feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: They feed me every day. They feed me when they want to. They open the flap, feed me, and close it. You know? So I really felt like an animal.
--:-- Shanita Basu: So how was this allowed to happen? Who were the people running this system and making decisions that were putting very young children behind bars.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Knight found that there were many adults involved, but one person bears a huge amount of responsibility, and her name is Judge Donna Scott Davenport.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She has a very outsized role in this county. This county started juvenile court in 2000. She was elected in 2000. So she is the first and only juvenile court judge that this county has ever had.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Since they created this court, she has been there. She's in her third term. She's an elected judge. And under her is the jail. So she is kind of at the top of the org chart.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And underneath her, she appoints the jailer. And the jailer has control over the jail. So ultimately, she controls the court system. And she controls the juvenile detention facility, which is a really pretty astounding consolidation of power.
--:-- Shanita Basu: I understand that you went back and you listened to dozens of hours of radio appearances by this judge. What did you learn about her through listening to that?
--:-- Maribah Knight: We asked the judge for multiple requests to speak with us, and she declined. But you get a window into how she operates because she's had this radio show for the past 10 years, a monthly radio show where she goes and talks about the work that she does.
--:-- Maribah Knight: It's pretty special that a judge would have a radio show. And it's all the more remarkable because juvenile court is very much a private place, right? The records are sealed. Many of the hearings are not open to the public.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So you really don't know much of what happens in there. But when she talks on the radio, she kind of cracks the door open into what's happening. And what we learned from listening to about 70 hours of her radio show is that she really wants to help children.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She believes she's helping children, but she has a very, very kind of scared straight mentality. Kids need consequences. They need structure. Children are really out of control.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I've locked up one seven-year-old in 13 years, and that was a heartbreak. But eight and nine-year-olds in odor are very common now. She has this kind of mentality that we've seen back in the early 90s, you know, with this idea of children have run amok, they've gone wayward, they're super predators.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She came on the bench as that was really waning. And we were realizing as a country that we can't treat children like that, that that wasn't good for them. And we needed to think harder about how we treat children in the justice system.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And we need to be more empathic and we need to be more focused on rehabilitation. That kind of seems to not have really gotten into her psyche much I mean being detained at our facility is not a picnic at all It not supposed to be It a consequence for an action
--:-- Shanita Basu: What are her rights as a child? I mean, does someone read them their Miranda rights?
--:-- Maribah Knight: What that is, is a really scary and traumatic thing. And it kind of progresses as you stay longer because, you know, the booking process accelerates if they decide to keep you overnight.
--:-- Maribah Knight: But essentially, for example, the girl who threw up on the floor, EJ, she was 10 years old. So she's brought in. She is screened. All of her jewelry is taken off. All of her small rings are taken off of her fingers. She is searched, given a 16-point search, and she is put in a holding cell where she waits.
--:-- Maribah Knight: For other children, that kept going. JB, the sister, was taken in, 16-point search, jewelry taken. All of her braids were taken out. That's part of the policy.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Her brother, who was kept overnight, it accelerated. So he is taken in, given a 16-point search, put in a holding cell, then forced to shower naked in front of a guard who is of the same gender.
--:-- Maribah Knight: He is given facility-issued clothing, and he is shackled his hands and his legs, and he is taken to a cell.
--:-- Shanita Basu: Do the children understand what's happening as they're going through this process? I mean, I'm also curious, like, when do their parents get called?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah. That was something we outlined in the story where the police specifically told the principal, do not call the parents. Do not call the parents. Their parents will be called once they get to the detention facility.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And at a certain point, the principal just says, screw it. I'm not following this. I'm calling the parents. So she starts to call the parents. And they start to arrive.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Some come to the school and they are outraged, as you can imagine. And they don't understand what's happening. They were like, what did my kid do?
--:-- Maribah Knight: But they told there is a petition for your child And in that county petitions were treated like warrants for arrest And so what power did they have I mean that was one of the striking things about this
--:-- Shanita Basu: We kind of outline in the story how two of the three police officers there that day do not want this to happen They are utterly, you know, kind of devastated by this.
--:-- Maribah Knight: One officer keeps trying to call up his chain of command to try to get somebody to call this off. Those two officers are Black, and they wonder, would this be happening at a school with mostly white students?
--:-- Maribah Knight: The principal, she doesn't want this to happen. She's like crying, trying to, you know, advocate for her kids. Nobody is listening. So she's scared she's going to get arrested.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So not all the adults in this situation were doing the wrong thing, but nobody was listening to them when they were trying to say, wait, hold on, let's just pause. What are we doing here?
--:-- Shanita Basu: You know, you were starting to talk about how JB got pulled deeper into the process. He was booked. He was kept. What did his experience end up looking like? I mean, he had the full gamut.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So he was arrested at his home in front of his family, in front of his small relatives. And he's 12 years old. 12 years old.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah, his mom said that her three nieces were there very little and they had bad dreams afterwards. They were scared they were going to get arrested. This was a story I heard from all the kids. Like, it was so random. It was so absurd that then they thought, what's going to happen if I go to school? Will I get arrested?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Well, so, but back to JB. So he's, he's arrested. He's handcuffed. He's put in the car. He's driven to the detention facility. He's booked. He has to shower. He has to go in a cell.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Recently, Knight spoke with JB, years after this incident took place. JB's full name is Jacorius Brinkley. He's 18 years old now. Here's what he remembers about being detained.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just stand by the door and try to watch TV. Like a guard just keep on walking past and stuff saying, like, you can't be by the door. You got to sit down. I can't even see the TV.
--:-- Maribah Knight: That's what I'm telling him. He talking about, man, you finna get put on lockdown. Brinkley was eventually put on lockdown, which is another way of saying solitary confinement.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Like they take everything, like your sheets, your cup, you can't even drink water. Like your cup, your toothbrush, everything. They take everything from you. They take everything.
--:-- Shanita Basu: If you're wondering how common this experience was, Knight spoke with another person, Quintarius Frazier, who was at the same facility at around the same time as Brinkley.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Frazier has developmental disabilities. He was 15 years old when facility staff put him in solitary, confining him to a cell for 23 hours a day.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just got used, I got trained to it like an animal. I got trained to them doing me like that. I feel like an animal. I feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So that's exactly how I felt. Like, it ain't nothing I can do right now. I can't read my own type of book. I can't come out myself. I just feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: They feed me every day. They feed me when they want to. They open the flap, feed me, and close it. You know? So I really felt like an animal.
--:-- Shanita Basu: So how was this allowed to happen? Who were the people running this system and making decisions that were putting very young children behind bars.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Knight found that there were many adults involved, but one person bears a huge amount of responsibility, and her name is Judge Donna Scott Davenport.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She has a very outsized role in this county. This county started juvenile court in 2000. She was elected in 2000. So she is the first and only juvenile court judge that this county has ever had.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Since they created this court, she has been there. She's in her third term. She's an elected judge. And under her is the jail. So she is kind of at the top of the org chart.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And underneath her, she appoints the jailer. And the jailer has control over the jail. So ultimately, she controls the court system. And she controls the juvenile detention facility, which is a really pretty astounding consolidation of power.
--:-- Shanita Basu: I understand that you went back and you listened to dozens of hours of radio appearances by this judge. What did you learn about her through listening to that?
--:-- Maribah Knight: We asked the judge for multiple requests to speak with us, and she declined. But you get a window into how she operates because she's had this radio show for the past 10 years, a monthly radio show where she goes and talks about the work that she does.
--:-- Maribah Knight: It's pretty special that a judge would have a radio show. And it's all the more remarkable because juvenile court is very much a private place, right? The records are sealed. Many of the hearings are not open to the public.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So you really don't know much of what happens in there. But when she talks on the radio, she kind of cracks the door open into what's happening. And what we learned from listening to about 70 hours of her radio show is that she really wants to help children.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She believes she's helping children, but she has a very, very kind of scared straight mentality. Kids need consequences. They need structure. Children are really out of control.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I've locked up one seven-year-old in 13 years, and that was a heartbreak. But eight and nine-year-olds in odor are very common now. She has this kind of mentality that we've seen back in the early 90s, you know, with this idea of children have run amok, they've gone wayward, they're super predators.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She came on the bench as that was really waning. And we were realizing as a country that we can't treat children like that, that that wasn't good for them. And we needed to think harder about how we treat children in the justice system.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And we need to be more empathic and we need to be more focused on rehabilitation. That kind of seems to not have really gotten into her psyche much I mean being detained at our facility is not a picnic at all It not supposed to be It a consequence for an action
--:-- Shanita Basu: What are her rights as a child? I mean, does someone read them their Miranda rights?
--:-- Maribah Knight: What that is, is a really scary and traumatic thing. And it kind of progresses as you stay longer because, you know, the booking process accelerates if they decide to keep you overnight.
--:-- Maribah Knight: But essentially, for example, the girl who threw up on the floor, EJ, she was 10 years old. So she's brought in. She is screened. All of her jewelry is taken off. All of her small rings are taken off of her fingers. She is searched, given a 16-point search, and she is put in a holding cell where she waits.
--:-- Maribah Knight: For other children, that kept going. JB, the sister, was taken in, 16-point search, jewelry taken. All of her braids were taken out. That's part of the policy.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Her brother, who was kept overnight, it accelerated. So he is taken in, given a 16-point search, put in a holding cell, then forced to shower naked in front of a guard who is of the same gender.
--:-- Maribah Knight: He is given facility-issued clothing, and he is shackled his hands and his legs, and he is taken to a cell.
--:-- Shanita Basu: Do the children understand what's happening as they're going through this process? I mean, I'm also curious, like, when do their parents get called?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah. That was something we outlined in the story where the police specifically told the principal, do not call the parents. Do not call the parents. Their parents will be called once they get to the detention facility.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And at a certain point, the principal just says, screw it. I'm not following this. I'm calling the parents. So she starts to call the parents. And they start to arrive.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Some come to the school and they are outraged, as you can imagine. And they don't understand what's happening. They were like, what did my kid do?
--:-- Maribah Knight: But they told there is a petition for your child And in that county petitions were treated like warrants for arrest And so what power did they have I mean that was one of the striking things about this
--:-- Shanita Basu: We kind of outline in the story how two of the three police officers there that day do not want this to happen They are utterly, you know, kind of devastated by this.
--:-- Maribah Knight: One officer keeps trying to call up his chain of command to try to get somebody to call this off. Those two officers are Black, and they wonder, would this be happening at a school with mostly white students?
--:-- Maribah Knight: The principal, she doesn't want this to happen. She's like crying, trying to, you know, advocate for her kids. Nobody is listening. So she's scared she's going to get arrested.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So not all the adults in this situation were doing the wrong thing, but nobody was listening to them when they were trying to say, wait, hold on, let's just pause. What are we doing here?
--:-- Shanita Basu: You know, you were starting to talk about how JB got pulled deeper into the process. He was booked. He was kept. What did his experience end up looking like? I mean, he had the full gamut.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So he was arrested at his home in front of his family, in front of his small relatives. And he's 12 years old. 12 years old.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah, his mom said that her three nieces were there very little and they had bad dreams afterwards. They were scared they were going to get arrested. This was a story I heard from all the kids. Like, it was so random. It was so absurd that then they thought, what's going to happen if I go to school? Will I get arrested?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Well, so, but back to JB. So he's, he's arrested. He's handcuffed. He's put in the car. He's driven to the detention facility. He's booked. He has to shower. He has to go in a cell.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Recently, Knight spoke with JB, years after this incident took place. JB's full name is Jacorius Brinkley. He's 18 years old now. Here's what he remembers about being detained.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just stand by the door and try to watch TV. Like a guard just keep on walking past and stuff saying, like, you can't be by the door. You got to sit down. I can't even see the TV.
--:-- Maribah Knight: That's what I'm telling him. He talking about, man, you finna get put on lockdown. Brinkley was eventually put on lockdown, which is another way of saying solitary confinement.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Like they take everything, like your sheets, your cup, you can't even drink water. Like your cup, your toothbrush, everything. They take everything from you. They take everything.
--:-- Shanita Basu: If you're wondering how common this experience was, Knight spoke with another person, Quintarius Frazier, who was at the same facility at around the same time as Brinkley.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Frazier has developmental disabilities. He was 15 years old when facility staff put him in solitary, confining him to a cell for 23 hours a day.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just got used, I got trained to it like an animal. I got trained to them doing me like that. I feel like an animal. I feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So that's exactly how I felt. Like, it ain't nothing I can do right now. I can't read my own type of book. I can't come out myself. I just feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: They feed me every day. They feed me when they want to. They open the flap, feed me, and close it. You know? So I really felt like an animal.
--:-- Shanita Basu: So how was this allowed to happen? Who were the people running this system and making decisions that were putting very young children behind bars.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Knight found that there were many adults involved, but one person bears a huge amount of responsibility, and her name is Judge Donna Scott Davenport.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She has a very outsized role in this county. This county started juvenile court in 2000. She was elected in 2000. So she is the first and only juvenile court judge that this county has ever had.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Since they created this court, she has been there. She's in her third term. She's an elected judge. And under her is the jail. So she is kind of at the top of the org chart.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And underneath her, she appoints the jailer. And the jailer has control over the jail. So ultimately, she controls the court system. And she controls the juvenile detention facility, which is a really pretty astounding consolidation of power.
--:-- Shanita Basu: I understand that you went back and you listened to dozens of hours of radio appearances by this judge. What did you learn about her through listening to that?
--:-- Maribah Knight: We asked the judge for multiple requests to speak with us, and she declined. But you get a window into how she operates because she's had this radio show for the past 10 years, a monthly radio show where she goes and talks about the work that she does.
--:-- Maribah Knight: It's pretty special that a judge would have a radio show. And it's all the more remarkable because juvenile court is very much a private place, right? The records are sealed. Many of the hearings are not open to the public.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So you really don't know much of what happens in there. But when she talks on the radio, she kind of cracks the door open into what's happening. And what we learned from listening to about 70 hours of her radio show is that she really wants to help children.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She believes she's helping children, but she has a very, very kind of scared straight mentality. Kids need consequences. They need structure. Children are really out of control.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I've locked up one seven-year-old in 13 years, and that was a heartbreak. But eight and nine-year-olds in odor are very common now. She has this kind of mentality that we've seen back in the early 90s, you know, with this idea of children have run amok, they've gone wayward, they're super predators.
--:-- Maribah Knight: She came on the bench as that was really waning. And we were realizing as a country that we can't treat children like that, that that wasn't good for them. And we needed to think harder about how we treat children in the justice system.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And we need to be more empathic and we need to be more focused on rehabilitation. That kind of seems to not have really gotten into her psyche much I mean being detained at our facility is not a picnic at all It not supposed to be It a consequence for an action
--:-- Shanita Basu: What are her rights as a child? I mean, does someone read them their Miranda rights?
--:-- Maribah Knight: What that is, is a really scary and traumatic thing. And it kind of progresses as you stay longer because, you know, the booking process accelerates if they decide to keep you overnight.
--:-- Maribah Knight: But essentially, for example, the girl who threw up on the floor, EJ, she was 10 years old. So she's brought in. She is screened. All of her jewelry is taken off. All of her small rings are taken off of her fingers. She is searched, given a 16-point search, and she is put in a holding cell where she waits.
--:-- Maribah Knight: For other children, that kept going. JB, the sister, was taken in, 16-point search, jewelry taken. All of her braids were taken out. That's part of the policy.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Her brother, who was kept overnight, it accelerated. So he is taken in, given a 16-point search, put in a holding cell, then forced to shower naked in front of a guard who is of the same gender.
--:-- Maribah Knight: He is given facility-issued clothing, and he is shackled his hands and his legs, and he is taken to a cell.
--:-- Shanita Basu: Do the children understand what's happening as they're going through this process? I mean, I'm also curious, like, when do their parents get called?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah. That was something we outlined in the story where the police specifically told the principal, do not call the parents. Do not call the parents. Their parents will be called once they get to the detention facility.
--:-- Maribah Knight: And at a certain point, the principal just says, screw it. I'm not following this. I'm calling the parents. So she starts to call the parents. And they start to arrive.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Some come to the school and they are outraged, as you can imagine. And they don't understand what's happening. They were like, what did my kid do?
--:-- Maribah Knight: But they told there is a petition for your child And in that county petitions were treated like warrants for arrest And so what power did they have I mean that was one of the striking things about this
--:-- Shanita Basu: We kind of outline in the story how two of the three police officers there that day do not want this to happen They are utterly, you know, kind of devastated by this.
--:-- Maribah Knight: One officer keeps trying to call up his chain of command to try to get somebody to call this off. Those two officers are Black, and they wonder, would this be happening at a school with mostly white students?
--:-- Maribah Knight: The principal, she doesn't want this to happen. She's like crying, trying to, you know, advocate for her kids. Nobody is listening. So she's scared she's going to get arrested.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So not all the adults in this situation were doing the wrong thing, but nobody was listening to them when they were trying to say, wait, hold on, let's just pause. What are we doing here?
--:-- Shanita Basu: You know, you were starting to talk about how JB got pulled deeper into the process. He was booked. He was kept. What did his experience end up looking like? I mean, he had the full gamut.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So he was arrested at his home in front of his family, in front of his small relatives. And he's 12 years old. 12 years old.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Yeah, his mom said that her three nieces were there very little and they had bad dreams afterwards. They were scared they were going to get arrested. This was a story I heard from all the kids. Like, it was so random. It was so absurd that then they thought, what's going to happen if I go to school? Will I get arrested?
--:-- Maribah Knight: Well, so, but back to JB. So he's, he's arrested. He's handcuffed. He's put in the car. He's driven to the detention facility. He's booked. He has to shower. He has to go in a cell.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Recently, Knight spoke with JB, years after this incident took place. JB's full name is Jacorius Brinkley. He's 18 years old now. Here's what he remembers about being detained.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just stand by the door and try to watch TV. Like a guard just keep on walking past and stuff saying, like, you can't be by the door. You got to sit down. I can't even see the TV.
--:-- Maribah Knight: That's what I'm telling him. He talking about, man, you finna get put on lockdown. Brinkley was eventually put on lockdown, which is another way of saying solitary confinement.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Like they take everything, like your sheets, your cup, you can't even drink water. Like your cup, your toothbrush, everything. They take everything from you. They take everything.
--:-- Shanita Basu: If you're wondering how common this experience was, Knight spoke with another person, Quintarius Frazier, who was at the same facility at around the same time as Brinkley.
--:-- Maribah Knight: Frazier has developmental disabilities. He was 15 years old when facility staff put him in solitary, confining him to a cell for 23 hours a day.
--:-- Maribah Knight: I just got used, I got trained to it like an animal. I got trained to them doing me like that. I feel like an animal. I feel like a dog.
--:-- Maribah Knight: So that's exactly how I felt. Like, it ain't nothing I can do right now. I can't read
