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M. Gessen returns to our show with a true-crime story that takes place entirely within their own family. This story comes to us from the producers at Serial Productions—who invented the true-crime podcast more than a decade ago—and from The New York Times.

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• Act One: M Gessen tells Ira Glass about the surprising events that prompted them to begin reporting on their own family for their new podcast, The Idiot. They play the first episode of the series. (14 minutes)
• Act Two: Ira Glass and M Gessen continue to talk through the story of M’s cousin, Allen Gessen. They play more clips from the podcast, and we finally hear about the big, shocking thing that snapped their family apart. (20 minutes)
• Act Three: M Gessen tells Ira Glass about Allen’s trial, and we hear a recording of his conversation with the undercover agent. (21 minutes)

Transcripts are available at thisamericanlife.org

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In this episode, Sean sits down with Bobby Okereke for a powerful conversation about discipline, leadership, self-belief, and what it really takes to reach the highest level of performance. From growing up in a strict Nigerian household where education came first, to becoming an Eagle Scout, Stanford captain, NFL starter, and New York Giants defensive captain, Bobby shares the mindset and habits that shaped his journey.Bobby opens up about starting football late, hiding games from his parents early on, and building the internal conviction needed to keep going when support was limited. He talks about the turning points that changed his career, including the coaching advice that challenged him to “kick the door in,” the discipline it took to eliminate distractions, and the growth mindset required to compete in elite environments.The conversation also explores leadership in the NFL, how competition breeds excellence, what separates great players from those who fall short, and how Bobby is now thinking about business, legacy, and impact beyond football. This episode is full of practical wisdom for athletes, entrepreneurs, leaders, and anyone pursuing mastery.Timestamps00:00 – Sean introduces Bobby Okereke and sets up a conversation around discipline, leadership, football, and mastery03:38 – Bobby reflects on growing up in a strict Nigerian household where education came first and discipline was non-negotiable05:44 – He shares why he started football in high school and the funny story of hiding games from his parents until scholarships changed everything08:45 – Bobby explains how football became an outlet for his competitiveness, intensity, and identity12:00 – He talks about choosing Stanford and balancing elite academics with high-level football17:16 – A coach tells Bobby he has his foot in the door, but if he wants to reach his potential, he has to kick the door in18:24 – Bobby opens up about discipline, obsession, and eliminating regret by going all in on his dream24:57 – He shares how his Stanford journey led to the NFL Combine and eventually being drafted by the Colts30:43 – Bobby breaks down the mental side of NFL preparation, including meetings, film study, and mastering the smallest details33:54 – He explains why competition breeds excellence, how growth mindset matters, and why ego quickly gets exposed41:58 – Bobby reflects on leadership, being voted captain, and why discipline and servant leadership keep showing up throughout his life46:17 – He shares the biggest mistakes talented people make, the importance of keeping the main thing the main thing, and the mindset he wants to leave as his legacyHighlights - Bobby shares how a strict Nigerian upbringing built the discipline that shaped his life.- He reveals that he did not start playing football until high school.- Bobby tells the story of hiding football from his parents until scholarships changed their minds.- He explains how football became his outlet for intensity, creativity, and competition.- Bobby breaks down why Stanford was the perfect choice for both academics and athletics.- A coach’s challenge to “kick the door in” became a major turning point in his journey.- He talks about building self-conviction and blocking out outside noise.- Bobby gives a look into the preparation and detail required to survive in the NFL.- He shares why discipline and servant leadership made him a captain at multiple levels.- Bobby closes by talking about business, legacy, and giving back through his nonprofit work.End NoteIf this episode encouraged you, challenged you, or gave you a new perspective on discipline, leadership, and mastery, share it with someone who needs to hear it.