--:-- Host: In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home... hold on. And welcome back to the show. Today's episode of The Conversation is with Marcus Ogden. Marcus is a former NFL player, former founder and CEO of an eight-figure construction company. He is now a speaker, a brand ambassador, a consultant, a coach. He's written books and is all around just an absolutely tremendous human being who I have come to get to know over the last few weeks and months. We text all the time, we talk all the time, we connect on social media, big supporters of each other's work. When you meet somebody who is cut from a certain mold, who has a certain mentality, sometimes you just can't help yourself but get drawn into their work and want to support them in every way. That is what Marcus has become for me.
--:-- Host: This is just an amazing podcast. I want you to get to know him. It's really just an intro to Marcus's work. I want you to dive deep. He's going to tell you about how you can connect deeper with him. If you listen to this and you are an event organizer, I would highly recommend Marcus as a speaker. Reach out to him. Marcus is somebody I'm going to be trying to make connections with in my own network because I think so much of this human being and what he has to share.
--:-- Host: This is a tremendous conversation. And guys, to that, not only should you connect deeper with Marcus, I would appreciate if you love this show—because we do not run ads on the show—if you find value in it, if you love conversations like the one I'm about to have with Marcus, I would love for you to share this show. Even if it's to disagree with something we talk about or something I say, even if it's to add your own dissenting perspective, that's okay. That's what this show is about. This show is about becoming the best version of ourselves. How do we find peak performance in our business and in our life? To do that, we have to be able to disagree with each other. We have to be able to talk about tough topics. We have to be able to talk through things in a caring, compassionate way, filled with grace, but also in a way that is intellectually honest. I think that is what we're cultivating here on the show.
--:-- Host: The show is growing like crazy, so I appreciate all the new listeners. If you love this show, make sure you subscribe. Share it with friends. And if you can, leave a rating and review on Apple and Spotify because guests read those ratings and reviews. They do. I do that. When someone asks me to be on their podcast, I come in. If I don't already know them, I read a little bit. I learn a little bit. Is this someone I feel like I can have a good conversation with? Those reviews mean a lot to guests, and it means a lot to me if you'll do that. With that being said, I don't want to take up too much of your time here in the intro because I want to get on to my good friend, Marcus Ogden.
--:-- Host: Yeah, that was a good conversation. It was one of those things where he just kept having points. I finally had to be like, "Well, that's a perfect time to wrap up, man, because we got to go." But yeah, it's all good. I figured a half hour in between episodes would be fine, but whatever, it's all good. Well, dude, I'm so excited to have you on the show. I appreciate the connection you've made, the conversation, reaching out. It's been amazing. Sharing your story with the audience, I couldn't be more excited. So I just appreciate you being here.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: No doubt. I look forward to it.
--:-- Host: So I would love to start not at the beginning. I want to talk—I was looking through a lot of your stuff on social, looking through your keynotes page and your website. A word that I saw a few times that to me is something I battle with and am constantly fighting is this idea of ego and the negative aspects of ego and what it can do to us. As someone who's been successful multiple times in multiple different avenues and multiple different seasons of your life, why do you address ego? What is it about this idea that you've felt is so necessary to create one of your top keynotes around, to create so much content around? Why has that term, that idea, that concept become seemingly one of the cornerstones of the work that you do?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Really, what happens is, Ryan, people don't understand that just because you're successful doesn't mean you're going to stay that way. I made a lot of money playing in the National Football League. I made even more money as a construction company owner, Caterp Premier Enterprises, and I did very well. I was doing a lot of things that I love doing. I was able to go where I wanted to go, do what I wanted to do, buy what I wanted to buy. Unfortunately, I started to believe the hype that comes along with success. If you don't appreciate it, if you don't really keep yourself grounded around positive movement—which means just doing things and being an individual who wants to help others—you can really learn how to be successful. I feel through innovation, movement, being dynamic.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: For me, I lost the sight of movement towards trying to extend to help other people, trying to do things to help others become more fulfilled and successful. I became all about myself. When you're all about self, you're really at the door, or you're about to open the door to just blow up and end up imploding in a negative way. Ego is something you can't see. I have an acronym for it. For me, it's Exaggerated, Glorified Opinions. One of my clients told me another acronym for ego, which is Edging God Out. It all comes back to remembering that when we have things, it doesn't mean we have to change who we are. We don't have to try to be something we're not.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Our podcast is in the top 0.5% most successful. I've been very fortunate to interview some amazing people. We're interviewing Dr. Ian Smith later this month on March 28th. I interviewed two gentlemen yesterday, Kachi Benson and Matt Ogins, who produced a Disney Plus documentary coming out called *Madu* on March 29th. All these people—Robert Irvine, David Archuleta. If it was the old Marcus, the ego would be bigger than my brand new house that I bought that I worked so hard for. It'd be bigger than anything. I couldn't step into a room because my ego would literally not allow me to fit through the door. What I've learned now is that if you're successful, your ego needs to be kept in check. If your ego gets bigger than the good part of your soul, you're screwed.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: What I'm hoping people gain from this, Ryan, is that they understand that in life, no matter how successful you get, you never want to be in a position to edge God out, and you never want to be in a position where you're exaggerating, lying about what you do, how you do it, trying to cheat to get ahead. Glory, all about you—I call that external motivating factors: cars, homes, money, trips, all those things that really don't matter. And opinions, which is having to always have the last word. I talk about it because so many people do not understand that if your ego starts to get bigger than the good part of your soul, it's normally and usually too late to get back and try to fix it to keep yourself going in the right direction. I try to talk about it so people are aware of it, so they don't end up like I did in April 2013, moving to Raleigh, bankrupt, broke, almost homeless, $400 to his name because of his ego.
--:-- Host: So what I've heard you say is that a lot of the lessons around ego, you've had to learn the hard way through loss. How do you address this with a younger audience? Maybe people in their late teens, early 20s. A large portion of this show's audience works in the insurance industry. Many of those are younger sales professionals, younger leaders. How do you speak to them where they could start to head this off, avoid some of the traps of ego without having to take the big L? Do you have to feel some loss before you can really appreciate it? Or are there things you can do, ways you can head off the ego traps without having to take a big L?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Yes, of course. There are all sorts of ways you can avoid the big L because of the big E, which is ego. The key to that, Ryan, is surrounding yourself with people like you or me or others who have learned from making mistakes, and then listening to us. I tell the younger generation: do not expect anything to be handed to you. Everything you get, every opportunity that comes your way, you have to work for it. You need to work for it through two types of skills. The hard skills of knowing your industry—if you're in insurance, knowing how to talk to people, knowing property casualty, understanding what that is, your premiums, your products, your services. That's the hard skills. But you have to also master the soft skills: empathy, compassion, connectivity. I have a saying, Ryan: vulnerability creates connectivity.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: If you're listening to this, the way you avoid the trap or the big L because of the big E is being around people that are sharing things—advice, stories, guidance—to keep you on track so you don't fall off the wagon. If you're a younger person listening, understand that you need to surround yourself with people who are older, wiser, who have been in business longer. Everybody needs a coach or a mentor. The way you can really not allow the big E to cause you the big L of loss, Ryan, is active listening. You have to really listen to people like yourself, or like Mick Hunt, or like myself, or some of the other leaders that people know and respect in their industry, or even people outside their industry that have gone through life and have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly, or have gone from boom to bust to boom.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: I tell people, especially the younger generation, you have to really master measured decision making. Number one. Number two, you have to be really good at competitive market analysis. What makes you different? And three, you have to adjust and adapt on the fly with speed. You have to be strategically agile in what you're doing in the workplace. If you can do those things, you will be primed for success. But it all starts with active listening, then measured decision making, then making sure you understand what you do better than your competition through competitive market analysis. At the end of the day, you want to be able to adjust and have good decision making on the fly with speed, which comes down to being strategically agile in your approach.
--:-- Host: I had a guy on the podcast named James Altucher. Good dude, very smart, former chess master, does a lot with investing and entrepreneurship. He has this concept called "plus one, minus one." He says at all times, you have to have someone who is your plus one—that older generation mentor who's been through the game, who has lived a life you would want to live, who can help you navigate it, that you learn from. You have someone who is your equal, who's at the same place in your life and career that you can share real-time, relevant experience with. And then your minus one is that person you're mentoring. It's kind of being both the student and the teacher at the same time at different levels. You take that knowledge, put it into practice, help others put it into practice at your same level, take the information from your elder, and teach it to those below you who aren't there yet in their journey. I don't mean below as a hierarchy, but as a career path.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Of course.
--:-- Host: It relates a lot to what you're saying. If you have to also teach it—this is what I've found. One of the reasons I love being a professional speaker is not the spotlight. I learn these things and I love getting them into people's hands. I've been through some stuff, some good, some bad, some interesting intertwined lessons and experiences. If I can put this in front of you, maybe a couple of you are actually paying attention and not digging through your chicken, and you'll actually put this into practice. What that does is it forces me to relive the moments in my career where I made mistakes that maybe I would have done differently. It keeps me humble because I keep sharing, "Hey, this thing happened and here's why it happened. I put myself on this pedestal and made this decision on an island when I should have socialized." By teaching, it forces you to stay humble to a certain extent. Do you find that? Is that something you've experienced?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Oh, yeah. Teaching allows you to really understand that somebody who is really wanting to learn—you're allowing yourself to pour into them so they can be better. Teaching is really humbling because it's somebody wanting to learn from you. It's somebody you're guiding, educating, trying to make better, inspire, or give a new perspective on life. That's always humbling because at the end of the day, that person is looking to you to help them get better. That's what speaking is for us. That's what our podcast is—trying to shine a light on our guests to help our audience. That's what our consulting does—helping people on a monthly basis achieve their goals and exceed their goals. That's what we've done as a bestselling author—trying to write books around overcoming adversity, pushing through obstacles, creating success, how to push through sleepless nights, how to become better at pivoting in life, how to be a better leader, you name it.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Teaching allows you to remember why you chose the path you chose, to then turn around and educate others—older, younger, wiser. I've got people that I coach who are smarter than me, but not in the area they're looking for me to coach them in. That's what it really comes down to. Teaching, coaching, mentoring, guiding—it's all the same. It's all about humbling yourself to understand that people are going to look to you for guidance, for answers, for solutions. When you realize that's what it is, that's when great things start to happen.
--:-- Host: I'm reading Bruce Lee's—well, this particular book isn't by Bruce Lee, but all of it is from his journals. It's called *Striking Thoughts*. It's a great book if you're interested in that kind of stuff. Basically, this guy took all of Bruce Lee's journals and pulled out these segments and compartmentalized them into areas like goals, his movie, etc. As he was journaling out all these thoughts, one of the things Bruce Lee wrote down—and I've been fascinated with a few different characters recently, Kobe Bryant is one, Bruce Lee is another—their mentalities are really resonating right now. Bruce Lee wrote in this journal: "The usefulness of the cup is that it's empty." It took me a second to think about that. I kept reading, I underlined it, and I thought, "There's something there, I'm not really sure." Then he went into a little more depth in another entry. He explained that the cup is only useful if it's empty.
--:-- Host: If we approach a situation—if I came to this interview and thought, "I've read Marcus's stuff, I've watched a couple of his videos, I've read his website, I know everything he knows"—what's the usefulness of the conversation? What's the usefulness of the connection to you? His point, as he articulates it—and I'm not going to try to do it directly because I'll do it a disservice—was essentially that in all areas of our life, if we can show up empty, we become a useful vessel. Now I can hear everything you say. I can listen to the way you say it. I can take it in, marinate on it, fill up on your ideas, and extract the real value from them. I feel like too often we approach situations as if we already have the answers. Almost every time I truly regret a decision is when I didn't approach it empty. I approached it full.
--:-- Host: Does that resonate with you? And when you talk about ego, how do we empty ourselves? If we find ourselves in those places—and this is where I'm really interested, as someone who has struggled with ego myself—how do you empty when you find yourself in that mode and you catch yourself and think, "Oh, I'm coming from a place of ego"? How do you start to dissipate that? How do you let that go? How do you allow yourself to come back to a balanced place?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: I live by this saying: the human mind can do a lot of things, but the human mind can't do everything. Once you understand that, you can come into a situation or an interaction and not try to have a predisposed thought of how it's going to go. Like me, when I interview people, I know who they are and I have an idea of what they do. But other than that, I don't do research. I don't go to their website. I don't look at their books. I don't do any of that. I'm not trying to have information that they put out at a certain time in their life that they might have thought was something then, but they might think totally differently today. They might have a different thought process, perspective, view. I have no idea. I don't want to have a preconceived notion of what someone may say or what I think they're going to say based on a bio that could be old or outdated.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Even if they send it to me, they might have read what's in there, but they might think totally differently today than when they had that bio written. I tell people: you want to know who you're talking to if possible, but don't go and try to get all this information on them based on what you see on the internet. Everything on the internet is not factual. It's not true. Some things have been outdated, misunderstood, misrepresented. When you approach people in that light and let them tell you who they are, what they're doing, what they're about, what they feel, that is how you're able to get great interaction, great conversation.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: When I was a speaker starting out, I realized one of the biggest reasons—and if you're listening to this right now and you're in sales, please listen to this—if I was trying to sell a speaking service to a client and I got on the phone with them, after saying "hi, hello, how are you," the first thing I wanted to do was talk. Who I am, what I'm about. "I'm a four-minute field athlete. I speak on this, this. I've worked for this company." Of course, I hadn't been paid at the time, but I did that. I was just out there trying to rush and get my stuff out. I felt whoever talked first in the process was going to win. In reality, whoever listens first and then responds is going to win.
--:-- [Host interjects with a mid-roll message]
--:-- Host: What's up guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show. In exchange for that, I need your help. If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast—whether you're watching on YouTube or listening on your favorite podcast platform—I would love for you to subscribe, share, comment if you're on YouTube, leave a rating and review if you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes. This helps the show grow. It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in—men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business. But they all check out comments, ratings, reviews. They check out all this information before they come on. As I reach out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you, I need your help. Share the show. Subscribe if you're not subscribed. I'd love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the comments. Or if you're on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating and review of this show. I love you for listening to this show, and I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoy creating the show for you. All right, I'm out of here. Peace.
--:-- [Discussion resumes]
--:-- Marcus Ogden: So when I talk to clients today, it's not about the Marcus Ogden story. It's not about what I feel I can bring to the table. It's about what do you need me to bring to the table? You're inviting me to dinner. Fantastic. I'm not going to show up to your house with what I feel I need to have to be welcomed. I'm not going to cook a steak or a roast or burgers, and then you say, "Well, I'm a vegetarian." I'm not going to make a bunch of sides and everything, and you say, "Sides are already done. We're good to go. Don't need this." "Oops, my bad." What I say to people is: ask what they need. If I'm going to dinner at your house, I'm going to ask you, "What can I bring? Can I bring this? Can I bring that?" When you tell me what to bring, that's what I'm going to bring.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Just like in sales, just like in an interaction, you're not going to tell somebody what they need before they tell you what they need. Then you're trying to swing a haymaker. If you connect, it's a grand slam. Awesome. But if you miss, you strike out. More times than not, in business, in sales, in conversation, you strike out when you try to come to a meeting or interaction with a preconceived thought, with a notion, with a solution without even hearing the problem. A way to really help knock the ego down is to not try to think about what you think somebody's going to say. Ask them the question, then shut up, and then let them say what they need to say.
--:-- Host: Oh my gosh, dude. One, I love that "the person who listens first wins." I think you're completely right. I love that. It's funny, the sales process I developed at my former business was very different than the common insurance sales process. What we would do is the person would get on the phone, and I would teach my people to say one simple thing: "Hey, how are you? Thank you for your interest in our company. What's going on? How can I help?" And then you shut up. Dude, this was the hardest part. All the other aspects of the sales process, people would pick up no problem. This part was the hardest to train people on because, to your point, we just want to barf all our amazing characteristics and experience and knowledge. "I saw you do this, and that's why you need that." I'm just like, "No, no, you have no idea. Just be quiet. If you have to be five minutes on the phone in silence, be five minutes on the phone in silence, because eventually they're going to talk, and then you'll start to understand." Dude, it was so hard.
--:-- Host: Why do you think that is? Taking it to the second level, why do you think this listening-first idea is so difficult? Because it is a difficult concept. Do you think it's fair to say it's difficult? And why do you think it's difficult?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: It's extremely difficult. Let me ask you a question, Ryan. They have a speech class in high school and college, right? They have a debate team. You get on debate team, things like that. We have a communications class. We have a "how to speak to people" class. We have all these things in high school and college. People can get full scholarships to go to Ivy League schools for being on the debate team. That's facts. Is there a listening class? Is there a "how to let someone speak first" class? Is there a "learning how to do proper etiquette and say your name and then ask someone how can I help you" class? No, there isn't.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Because our society, our culture has trained us to communicate all the time. Talk, speech, debate, ask questions, say things, tell people who we are, ask them a question really knowing that we want to say what we've got to bring to the table. All these things create people that are going to want to talk first. Society has taught them—going through high school and college—that communication, speech, debate is awesome. The problem is, it is awesome if you're trying to earn a grade. It's not awesome if you're actually trying to be in the business world and do well when it comes to sales.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: We're taught at a young age. I went through speech class, debate class in high school. I took communications and speech in college. Even languages—Spanish, French, Greek, you name it. We're taught to talk in different languages. Nobody's telling us how to listen to people in different ways, non-verbally, and get cultural experiences to know how to actually bring value to people. We're all about the talk, talk, talk. Yes, you need to talk to get people to know what you want to do for them, but it's not everything. It is the second part of the process. The first part is the listening.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Ryan, when you talked about your job in October, you were telling me about it. I didn't say, "Oh man, you got a job. Great. Well, you know, I'm a former NFL athlete, and I can talk about this and I can do that." No, I said, "Ryan, tell me about your event. Who's going to be there? What's the theme? What do they need? What do you think their problem is?" "Okay. Mindset. Okay. Getting out of their own way. Okay. Overcoming obstacles." "Well, I can talk about things like resiliency, mindset shift. I can talk about perseverance. I can talk about my acronym MINDSET. I can talk about how you have to have that whole process of visualizing, vocalizing, vicinity to get to victory, which you need to be successful. Vulnerability creates connectivity. We can talk about that." I let you talk first, and then I told you what I could bring to the table. If I was barfing at you what I thought you needed to hear, you'd be like, "Marcus, thanks a lot, man. Gee, Mick, why'd you bring me this guy?"
--:-- Host: Like here's a guy that just wants to tell me all about himself. Right. And that's not who I am. And if you're listening, that is the key to winning in business, active listening. You don't have to flex by speaking. Flexing needs to be done by listening, but we don't teach people that. And so that's why they struggle.
--:-- Let me, I'm kind of thinking on the fly here and let me hit you with something. And you tell me, you react to this. So unfortunately with social media, with the way our politics is done, with the way our news is delivered, even the conversations they have on financial channels like CNBC, it is just short sound bites, everyone yelling over the top of each other. And by the end, you're not even sure who said what and what was really said. It's like everyone just trying to get their one little clip in that they can take and throw on social media and blast everyone over the head with.
--:-- Then you have this counter movement of incredibly successful, incredibly large and growing independent media outlets like Lex Fridman's podcast, like Chris Williamson's podcast, like Joe Rogan's podcast, and Mix is growing like crazy. Our good buddy, you're right, and he's kind of cut from the same mold in the way he does it. It is this long form. I ask you a question, I let you go as long as you want. Then I listen to you. I take it in. I follow up with a question. I let you go as long as you can go because you're the star. You're the guest.
--:-- So I guess my question is, we have this one version which seems to be dying, which is this talk over the top of you, who gets the last word, who says the fastest, most biting, cheeky thing, versus this long form, deep, engaging format. Rogan kind of started this with, he'll ask a one sentence question and let his guest talk for a half hour before he speaks again. Do you think what we really desire as humans is that more listening, non-confrontational manner of having deeper conversations? And that's why people are gravitating towards what you're describing?
--:-- As you were talking, that thought came to me. People always ask, why are these long-form podcasts and long-form conversation formats doing so much better and growing so much faster than traditional? To me, what you just described, and I had never had this thought before, this hit me while you were talking, is that could be one of the defining characteristics between the two. The host actually listens to the guest and doesn't try to talk over the top of them. They actually give them this format to go as long as they want.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: That's exactly what we do. Now, of course, because we're just starting out—well, not just starting out, we've been out for almost 21 months, so closing in on two years. It'll be June 22nd, it'll be two years. But as Mick made me aware, and I realize it, it's so nice to hear a person that loves our show say it. I don't talk over people. I don't. And I'm all about the guests allowing themselves to speak, be heard, and promote themselves, authenticity, their brand, what they're doing. You name it. I'm all about it. And because of that, I feel our podcast has so much success. Just like Mix, just like yours, just like Joe Rogan's.
--:-- But again, sometimes people put on podcasts and they interview people and they want to talk about anything and everything. It's about their life when a guest says something. Here's the thing: this is not a podcast about you. Yes, it's your podcast, but it's not about you. If you want a podcast about you, have a podcast. No guests. You sit there and talk. Go monologue. Go ahead and do it to your heart's content. But I'm probably going to tell you at some point sooner than later, you're going to lose a lot of listeners. How much can we talk about ourselves all the time? We've put out 300 shows. If I talk about myself for 300 shows, what kind of people will be listening? Nobody would listen.
--:-- So podcasting and business are very synonymous. It's all about listening. It's all about hearing people. It's all about recapping what they said, asking another question that leads down the path, going somewhere. And that's business, Ryan. That's business. And that's how people—we've worked for a lot of companies, a lot of people, insurance, finance, construction, you name it, we've done it. At the end of the day, everybody we worked for says, "Marcus, you listen well. You fit our theme well. You crushed it. The people loved you. You fit in well. You blended your story to what we needed to hear. You were listening to what we said in the pre-con call. You were listening to what we said when we met the night before. You were listening to what we said right before we had our final walkthrough."
--:-- Again, it's hard to keep people engaged for 60 or 90 minutes if you do not understand how to connect with people. And again, goes back to vulnerability creates connectivity. The more vulnerable you are with people, the more honest you are with people, the more authentic you are with people. You're finding your peak in your podcast, getting to the top. It's not about what you say about yourself. It's about what others say. You will never reach peak in anything if the only person that loves you is you.
--:-- Host: 100%, dude. You could not be more on the mark. So I want to shift gears just a little bit. I want to talk about you, and I want to push people to your podcast, to your properties, to hear the in-depth parts of your stories. I want them to go deeper. I don't want you to just retell the same story you've told in other places. I know you just did an episode with Mick. That's another great place to get information. Mick's one of my best buddies in the whole world, so anytime I can push people to his podcast, I always want to do that.
--:-- That being said, you had two big drops coming out of your NFL career and coming out of your construction company. My question to you is, why did you keep going? Why not just screw it? The universe is out to get me. God didn't make me the type of person who could bump up. Why did you not—it's very easy to go down the dark path. You obviously chose to pick yourself back up in both moments and keep pushing forward into this amazing place that you're in today. How did you do that?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: I did that by turning one V, which was a victim mindset, to a victor mindset. What I realized is that if I'm going to get out of this, I have to pull myself up by the bootstraps. I got to put my big boy pants on. I got to put my belt on. I got to put my tool belt on. I got to put my jacket on, my heart, and I got to work. That's what took me to get out of that hole, the rock bottom moment as a custodian.
--:-- At that moment, I said, "Okay, Marcus, you're always thinking about—" I call it the Al Bundy syndrome. I constantly was saying I was a great—Al says, "I was Polk High, most valuable player, four touchdowns in one game," but I was always in the past. Well, that's what I was before that rock bottom moment. I was a great NFL athlete. I was a great successful CEO. I was an eight figure a year business owner. I was making seven figures a year. But when I was saying that in April, May, June, July, August, September of 2013, it wasn't my reality.
--:-- I heard this on a podcast and I loved it: you can't worry about the past, it's gone. You can't be anxious about the future, it's not here yet. You got to live in the here and now. When I was going through what I was going through, I was constantly living in the past. I was afraid of what was going to happen next because I hadn't had any success. Instead of focusing on the right here, right now, I wasn't doing that. Once I had the rock bottom moment in September 2013, I went from a victim mindset to a victor mindset. At that moment, I said, "I got to charge for it. No matter if I fail, win, succeed, don't, whatever, I got to at least try." If I don't try, I'm going to always be losing at every way in life. I said, "Enough is enough. Let's get going." Even if you don't go anywhere, at least try.
--:-- It took me a while to get there. If you're listening, I didn't get a paid speaking job for two and a half years. Not one. Two and a half years. So if you're listening, understand it's not going to come overnight. It's not going to come easy. But the minute you go from victim to victor mindset and you have a strong mindset shift, anything and everything is possible.
--:-- Host: Where did you get that from? A book? A mentor? Did it come to you from God? How did it just manifest in your mind? Where did that come from?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: I remember what Jack Del Rio told us when I was a 22-year-old rookie. He said, "If you want to be successful and fulfilled in life, you have to be your own CEO." Jack said, "If you sit around and wait for us to tell you when to get to the stadium, what to do, how to do it, all these things, you will not be in the NFL, or at least on the Jaguars, for long." I took that and I remembered it at that moment. It was like Coach was speaking to me again when I was a 20-year-old rookie in the meeting room down in Duval County at Jacksonville Jaguar Stadium. When I remembered what Jack said, combined with that real moment of saying, "Wow, I put myself here. Nobody else," once those came into my mind and once I got a picture of, "I need to change me," and remember what Coach Del Rio said, that's when things got better.
--:-- Host: It's pretty amazing how moments in your life can hit you. In the moment it just kind of passes you by. Maybe you took that in, "Yeah, I get that," but you're 22. You want to go out there and hit somebody. Let's go. Let's get our pads on. You're good with this philosophical stuff. But for some reason, it sticks in your brain. You obviously had the ability to pull that back out. I think this goes all the way back to the teaching part. It's why I love doing these podcasts. These podcasts feel selfish to me because I get the opportunity to talk to guys like you, to gals, guys and gals who know so much, who've had so many experiences. You get all this sinking in.
--:-- I'm interested now that you are a speaker. I think the best speakers are teachers. You're not up there pontificating or preaching. You're sharing. You're giving people ideas, concepts. You have all these great acronyms and sayings you've come up with that help people categorize information in their brain. It's wonderful. As you've gone through that process, what have been some of the core ideas that came to you that maybe you didn't necessarily see coming? Things that started to have meaning or recurring ideas that kept coming back to you that maybe you didn't plan for, but through the process of teaching, you found yourself really grabbing onto and becoming core aspects of your practice as a professional speaker and as you operate your life.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Really and truly, I started to pull stories from my life like the NFL, business, upbringing. The more I did that over time, the more I saw an impact being made in the first half of my keynotes and in the coaching and the consulting, and then moving into the next phase. What I really started to lean on after that, becoming that instructor with the action steps. When I started in the space, I was always just up there trying to motivate. Then I became an inspirational speaker through better storytelling that connected with themes of our clients much stronger, with action steps that were aligned with our clients' values and what they wanted much better. I got better at the storytelling to really match what the themes were. I got better at bringing the value through the action steps that align much better with the clients. That's when things took off.
--:-- I didn't realize how valuable that was until I got taught that by a client that I spoke for in New York City. She told me, "Mark, if you want to be a big time, big paid keynote speaker, 10, 20, 30,000 and above, you have to do three things. You have to have great stage presence. You have to engage your audience, and you have to educate your audience." If you don't do those three things as a speaker, you will never reach the top dollar. Best advice I ever got. It was about six years ago. Ever since then, we really worked towards that, and it's really changed us from an average, middle of the road speaker to where we're at now, getting booked large. I'm heading to Cabo Friday for a big job. Our clients, 1000 mile travel, they're big sponsors and clients. We're working for the whole conference: United Airlines, Carnival Cruise, and SBRE Technology. I just got booked for a big job in April down in Atlanta for High Speed Alliance Real Estate. We got booked for a huge consulting contract with Fairway Mortgage, a top 10 mortgage company in the United States. We're going to go to Boston, Baltimore twice, and then we're going to be here in Raleigh. Working with Living Bank in Houston in October. Looking to work with you in October. We're getting some great things done, come up with Mick and what he's got going on. We've learned to remove what we really think matters. We bring to the table what we know the clients truly matters.
--:-- Host: I love that. I want to be cognizant of our audience this time and yours as well. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that you were a Buffalo Bill, 2005 to 2007. Buffalo Bills are the greatest team in the history of the NFL by far, certainly the best uniforms. I am highly, highly appreciative. Guys, I'm going to just say this. Take it, Marcus. I know it probably makes you uncomfortable, but Marcus sent me a football, signed, Bills Mafia. Awesome. I get it home. My boys love it. He goes, "Wait, you have two boys at home?" I said, "Yeah." He goes, "Are they Bills fans?" So he sent me two more footballs. Now my boys have footballs. It's amazing, thoughtful. I did a post on LinkedIn about it because I said, "This is the things that don't scale, that turn people from liking your work into lifelong fans." We're getting to know each other. It's a whole other level of experience. I think it's wonderful.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: That's great.
--:-- Host: I had to say that because I think you're a quality person. I want people to know. But I have one football question. Just one football question. I don't want to spend too much time on it. I've heard from other people that I've talked to that Ralph Wilson, now Highmark Stadium, really is a home field advantage. It really is a tough place to play. What is the truth to that? I've been on the field as a pregame, I've been able to be on the field and watch the guys. The first thing I noticed was, I played high school football for a midsize upstate New York school. I'd like to believe I was pretty good, but I'm a fairly small, narrow shoulder dude. I'm standing down there, I'm six foot four. All of a sudden I see the offensive line and the defensive linemen come out. I was like, "This is why high school football players do not become NFL players. Look at the size of these guys."
--:-- I've heard from other guys that I've interviewed and people that I've met over the course of my career speaking who played in the NFL that Highmark Stadium, Ralph Wilson Stadium at the time, is truly a competitive advantage for the Bills just because it's a tough place to play. What makes it a tough place to play? What is it about that atmosphere? Obviously in the Josh Allen years, it has a whole new energy. As a Bills fan, I'm very thankful, having lived through the four years of Wide Right as a kid, now getting to experience some success again as an adult is wonderful. What is it about that place? What is it about the fans, the energy? It does feel different. A lot of people have mentioned that. What is it from a player's perspective that makes that atmosphere different from others that you've played in?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Bills Mafia loves the Buffalo Bills no matter win, lose, or draw. When you have fans that are truly diehard and not fair weather, fans that will always scream and cheer and be loud for the Bills no matter if they're up a lot, down a lot, tied, it doesn't matter. When you have that atmosphere as an incoming player to that field, to that environment, you know you're going to be in for a loud day, especially when you're playing offense and you're trying to hear the cadence, you're trying to hear the count, you're trying to really get locked into your job and focus. It causes a lot of problems. It causes a lot of hearing issues. It causes a lot of psychological issues at times too because you know that you're facing basically a 12th man.
--:-- They say that in Seattle, that's because of the elevation. The fans in Seattle have nothing on the Bills because the Bills went through four years of going and losing. Those fans, yes, they blacked out unfortunately for a long time, but the fans kept coming and kept appearing. Here's the thing too: it gets cold in Buffalo in the second half of the season. That is another big factor. Teams like Miami, teams like Tampa, Jacksonville, even the Titans. When you're playing the Rams, the Chargers, the Raiders, if you're an indoor team like Minnesota or these places, you've got to come play in that cold, cold weather. So that's another factor that ties in. Between the weather atmosphere and the fans just never, ever not being Bills Mafia oriented, it's just a really tough place to play.
--:-- Host: Last question for you that's sports related. I want to wrap up. I talk to a lot of dads who have boys playing sports. This goes for if you have daughters playing sports too. There's a big debate. My kids are 10 and eight, around specializing versus playing a bunch of sports. As someone who obviously made it to the pros in your sport, did you play other sports? Do you believe in the non-specialization, playing basketball and soccer, having other things going? Where do you fall in that? What advice do you have for a parent who has a son or daughter playing sports and maybe is dealing with this right now?
--:-- Marcus Ogden: The more sports you play, I feel, gets you better condition for the sport that you want to play. I played basketball for a couple of years growing up, 12 and under in middle school. I was not going to be a basketball player in high school, but my dad said, "Play basketball for the running, for the footwork, for the agility, for learning how to play with teams." I wasn't allowed to play football in seventh and eighth grade because St. John's didn't have it. I needed to do something, my dad said, to get me ready for playing with others, teamwork, collaboration, agility, pushing through adversity. So I love people playing more sports.
--:-- My daughter, who's nine, she plays basketball. She plays volleyball. She plays soccer. She loves it. She's very athletic. My nephew, I know he played football. He played a little bit of basketball. He did a little bit of track, I'm not mistaken. I also wrestled when I was in high school and did track as well. All those sports, in my opinion, got me ready to play my premier sport, which was football.
--:-- Host: Love it. My man, I appreciate your time so much. I'm looking forward to working together. I'm going to say one more thing, guys. Very selfishly, I'm working to get Marcus into my event. But if you are listening to this and you have an event or you sit on the board of an event, this is an incredible speaker who has not made his way through the insurance industry yet. Having him at your event, I'm telling you, is going to be a defining factor on whether people come back in years in the future. I think that as a keynote and cornerstone of a conference, I couldn't recommend Marcus's work enough. I hope that if you're listening and you do have an event in the industry, you'll reach out.
--:-- If people either want to look to your speaking to hire you and find out more, or they just want to follow your work and connect with you, where are the places that people should go? We'll have them all linked up in the show notes for the episode, but just so people can hear it.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Absolutely, Ryan. We have an app. It's called the Marcus Ogden app, M-A-R-Q-U-E-S-O-G-D-E-N. If you have an Apple phone or an Android, you can go to your app store, type it in, download it. You can go to our website, www.MarcusOgden.com. You can go to our link, Marcus360.com. Or you can just shoot me an email, Marcus at MarcusOgden.com. Again, we have our app. If you have an Apple phone or an Android, you can download that right away. You can connect with us. You can go to our website from there, follow our podcast, and get our free exclusive content there. You can just go to our website, MarcusOgden.com. You can go to our link, Marcus360.com, or you can shoot me an email at Marcus at MarcusOgden.com.
--:-- Host: My man, I appreciate it so much. I look forward to working together in the future.
--:-- Marcus Ogden: Look forward to it, man. Thanks for having me on. It was awesome.
--:-- Host: Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back.
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