Raising Lions in a World That Breeds Lambs | Angus Reid

Ryan Hanley: I think that's a generational gap between how we grew up and how they're being raised. We're all products of what we're surrounded by.

Angus Reid: The kids today live in a world where it's okay. They're always around "it's okay." We were raised that it's not okay, because we still want to be here and we're getting tossed if we can't get this done. Now it's "it's not that bad, don't worry about it."

Ryan Hanley: The "it's okay" generation. They haven't been taught that the ownership is on you. You're right, it is okay, but you're going to get left behind here. You have to want this. You have to do this. Nobody's going to make you take ownership of your life. Before, we got tossed aside. Now you can kind of drift along, but we don't want our kids to drift along. We want them to become everything they can. This world isn't wired to get kids to become their best anymore. The bar is lowered, so everything is okay. And there's no downside to being okay.

Angus Reid: It's all good, buddy. "How are you?" "Good, dude. Just trying to keep pushing forward and figure out what I'm going to be when I grow up." And then that changes tomorrow and the next day, and we just keep moving forward because the world keeps changing. So we just keep getting better with it. It's all good.

Ryan Hanley: That's 100% it, man. And what I'm hoping for is my kid comes home sometime in the next 20, 30 minutes. When he gets here, I want him to come down and just share some of his thoughts because he had a book report for the first half of school and he read your book as his book.

Angus Reid: That is so cool. That to me would be my dream scenario for what happens with this book. Kids engage, they read it, they don't just read it, they engage it and they force themselves to think through it. I thank you. That to me is everything. That's what I was trying to do here. Get kids to engage with this and challenge themselves to think some things through and take action and do stuff, man. Become who they can be.

Ryan Hanley: I told him all about you. I was like, "This is my buddy. I met him at Chris's thing." I was telling him your backstory. I said, "Look, man, I haven't read the book yet, but I promise you that if you read this, you will get stuff out of it that you can use in your day-to-day life. And this is from a guy who's put the work in." I told him about how you were the smallest guy and your story. I was like, "Dude, if this guy can become what he became in the sport that he played, it shows you that anybody with enough work and dedication can become the thing that they want to be."

He struggles a lot with — he's very talented, but he wasn't born with that natural killer instinct. For me, I could be the ugliest looking skills, whatever had to happen. They always bust my chops because in basketball and probably in all sports, I know all the little dirty mind tricks and gimmicks and games, whatever it takes to get that edge to win. On the baseball field and basketball field, the kids are always giving me crap because I'm like, "Oh hey, if he's gonna set up here, you can kind of hook his arm, the ref won't see it, and then you can push. Here's how you get that advantage."

One day my son asked me, "Why do you have all these little things?" I was like, "Because I wasn't talented. I was athletic, that's what it took. I was athletic enough to be in the conversation, but if I wanted to play, I had to find an edge that wasn't my 40 speed or my vertical leap or how many times I could bench 225. I was never going to be the impressive guy at those things, so I had to find these other ways of being successful. And it doesn't take away from your success. Just study Larry Bird. The greatness of Bird was he understood every nuance of the game to gain an edge."

I remember this great quote that James Worthy talks about comparing Bird to Jordan. He said, "Jordan would make you look slow. Bird would make you look stupid." Because he understood every single thing to take advantage of you. All the stuff beyond athletic ability. He knew how to beat you beyond being faster and jumping higher and being quicker. He knew how to break people down.

Angus Reid: I'm glad your son was reading this because I write a bit in the chapter that I lacked that killer instinct. I was good at training, preparing, but that competitiveness — I had to learn that. I had to be taught that. I was more comfortable in the off-season workouts and training, but when it came to beating somebody, I had to learn that. It wasn't natural for me. Sometimes it's just framing it: "This is what it's going to take for you to become your best." Maybe if you're not into beating the other person but you want to rise above, whatever you need to frame it as to buy into that. It wasn't natural for me to just want to beat everybody. I just wanted to become really good myself. But you have to compete against others to do that.

Ryan Hanley: It's funny. I look back at my sports career in particular, but probably this is the same with my professional career. I have never been the best. I don't win a lot of awards. I don't think any athletic performance I've ever had has been — I've never been the guy that stands out in any regard. But I was a starter and captain on every sports team I've ever played on. I look back at that and I'm like, "What was it?" One, I hated to lose. I hated to lose.

I said something to the kids the other day. I was working with the infielders. It was my son — there was a ball in the hole and he took two hard steps, but then he kind of gave up on it. He looked and gets the ball from the outfielder and turns around. I said, "Why did you let that one get through?" He said, "I didn't let it get through. It was a hit." I said, "Well, you didn't dive. So how do you know it was a hit?" He kind of looks at me. I was like, "It should offend you that that guy was willing to hit a ground ball in between short and third. Basically what he said is you're not good. I'm going to hit the ball between short and third because that's where I can get a base hit."

That's the way my mind goes. It offends me that you would even consider hitting the ball in my area and think that you're going to get on base. That's pride in who you are, taking it personally. That idea to those kids was so foreign. They're like, "Well, he just hit it." I'm like, "No, he pulled the ball to the shortstop area, which means in his head, it's acceptable to hit it at you because he doesn't believe that you're going to make every play. Doesn't that piss you off?"

I started to think to myself, "Is my viewpoint crazy here? Is this a little too out of this world? Or in general, have these kids not been exposed to enough aggressive, performance merit-based systems that they're just not used to having to do those little extra things to stand out and be successful?"

Angus Reid: I think that's a generational gap between how we grew up and how they're being raised. We're all products of what we're surrounded by. The kids today live in a world where it's okay. We were raised, "It's not okay," because we still want to be here and we're getting tossed if we can't get this done. Now, "It's not that bad. Don't worry about it." The "it's okay" generation hasn't been taught that the ownership is on you. You're right, it is okay, but you're going to get left behind here. You have to want this. You have to do this.

I speak on that in the book. Nobody's going to make you take ownership of your life. Before, we got tossed aside. Now you can kind of drift along. But we don't want our kids to drift along. We want them to become everything they can. This world isn't wired to get kids to become their best anymore. The bar's lowered, so everything is okay. And there's no downside to being okay. You and I did not want to be like everybody. We wanted to be in the winner's circle. We wanted to be where the cool kids were. There's no division anymore. You're almost not allowed to separate the cool kids. "That's just not nice. It's okay. Everyone's okay just being whatever." So how would they know anything different?

Ryan Hanley: You don't get to have it both ways, and that's the disconnect. This goes for adults today too. It seems to me about half the country would be the "it's okay" segment, except they're not okay with not getting results. It's like, "I want all the things that come with doing the work, but I don't want to do the work and I don't want to be judged. God forbid you tell me that I'm not special and unique and amazing, but I don't really want to do this stuff, but I want the things." Both expectations live here, but accountability and ownership are not the same. Both people want the same outcome, but they are unwilling to take the ownership and accountability to make it happen.

When I look at the core of this miss between broad stroking the right and broad stroking the left in this country today, you have a group on the right that still believes, "I'm going to reap what I sow. If I put in the work, I'm going to get stuff back. If I don't put in the work, I'm not going to be as successful as I want." There's a million other things that can fall in my favor or not along the way, but I'm going to do everything I can to put myself in a position to be successful. Or if they choose not to put in the work, they are mentally okay accepting, "I'm not going to be as successful as that guy, but I'm okay with that because I want to cut out at three and be with my kids' baseball practice." They're willing to accept the outcomes of their input.

Angus Reid: A perfectly acceptable thought process is to say, "I'm willing to give up $50,000 in salary to be at every single one of my kids' sports games."

Ryan Hanley: Yes. But then we have another group of people who want all the money and the job and the title, but also want to be able to take mental health days, be at their kids' sports games, and go to the gym at 8 a.m. every day. That's where we're missing. One of these things is reality: "Hey, I'm exchanging effort at work for money to have freedom." The other is, "I want all the freedom, but I also want all the money and all the accolades." That's not how the universe works. It's not set up that way. That seems to be one of the core issues we are banging up against as a society.

It's funny, I talk to other coaches on other teams because I coach their base, so a lot of times I'm on the other side of the field. For the most part, they're all just dads trying to do their thing, trying to be good. They all say the same shit: "They don't work off the field on non-practice time. Where we used to watch whatever sport we were into and pick up nuances of the game from watching a baseball game, a football game, or a basketball game, they don't do a lot of that." They're only experiencing things through the short periods of time in which they're on the court or practicing on the field. They're not watching games and picking up stuff. They're not practicing on the side or off. And yet they want the same results. I don't know how you package it up, but the universe just doesn't work that way.

Angus Reid: I think we've gotten to a place where there's not enough of us as adults willing to let our kids suffer that reality. So we bandage it along. Kids are products of what adults present to them. We have screwed this up by telling them it's okay for a while because we don't want to hurt their feelings and we'll get them there. But all we're doing is weakening them every single day by not letting that reality hit them hard. Reality's got to hit hard. The earlier it hits, the more time they have to recover and gain strength. The longer we let it mask along, they become the workforce that expects $150K off the grant and three days a week part-time because they still like work-life balance, but they want elite earnings. Because they've had 20 years of knowing that.

But I think there's a way to do it, though, Ryan. When I'm coaching high school football now, I don't want every kid to quit today because I don't want to see them 10 years later never recover. I don't know if they have the moms and dads and support at home. So how do we serve up reality in a way that they have the ability to adapt in whatever ability they can to toughen up without just cutting them free? If we cut everyone free, we're going to have a whole world of useless individuals because no one else is going to help get them strong. We're just going to either throw them out or not.

The problem with right and left is, where do we have this transition piece? How do we move people over to getting stronger? Saying, "You are, you're not. So you guys are idiots because you're not." Well, they don't know to be strong. We got to help them become strong. That's an art that's not a science anymore. That's getting to know our youth, our next generation. How do we make it exciting for them to realize you can become great? This is what it takes. The best journey of your life is going to be becoming the best version of you.

I tell people all the time, I'm not a fan of fluff, rah-rah people cheering people on for nonsense. But I am a fan of showcasing them doing something they couldn't do yesterday because praise gets repeated. I'm going to let them know, "You couldn't do that yesterday. You didn't think you could. Now I wonder what you can do tomorrow. You didn't think you could do today." I will reward you pushing new ground 100% because that'll make you want to push more new ground. I'm not praising nonsense, but I will praise that first kick over to ownership. "I never thought I could do that." So don't ever say you can't do something because you said you couldn't do this yesterday, and you just did it.

Ryan Hanley: There's this awesome reframe of Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour rule by Naval Ravikant, where he talks about 10,000 iterations. I like 10,000 iterations better because what 10,000 hours of effort or practice misses are the losses and adjustments. You could practice hitting a fastball at 80 miles an hour right down the middle of the plate for 10,000 hours. Sure, you'll be good at hitting a fastball at 80 miles an hour right down the middle of the plate, probably one of the best in the world. But that's not the way the game works. That fastball can be outside. It can be faster, slower, curve, all these different things. What you need to do is — what happens when you miss your first curveball? You iterate. You miss your second curveball. You iterate again. Then, "Oh, now I got a piece of it. Now I'm starting to get a bigger piece. Okay, now I can take it to right field." You're getting that little bit better. But the idea is how early can you start those iterations?

What I think is happening so much to the generations that are currently 30 and under is that they're not getting their first real loss until they're in their 20s. They literally haven't had a loss. They've taken bullshit public education. Now having nieces and nephews in public school and my own kid in private school, looking at the difference in curriculum is stupid. The sixth grade curriculum in the public school is like a third or fourth grade curriculum, how easy it is. These kids are breezing through high school. They're going into colleges where there's actually no incentive for the colleges to fail them. They're all getting ridiculous GPAs. They get a job and they make the second team. Now all of a sudden they get into the real world and they've literally never experienced a serious loss. Something happens and they're going, "Oh my God, life shouldn't be like this. What's wrong with me?" Now they've got anxiety and depression and we're on pills because we haven't dealt with what it feels like to get knocked in the dirt.

The earlier we can get our kids in situations where they are losing and having to experience losses in some way, shape, or form, I think the better. It just teaches them what that means, what it feels like. My son is a really good middle infielder. The last game of the season, I think he was just a little checked out and it was cold. Two ground balls in a row, he booted both of them really bad. That's never happened before. I was pretty pissed because mostly it was him being lackadaisical and checked out. So I send him to right field in the middle of the inning and I bring the center fielder in to play shortstop. After the game, my ex-wife is like, "You're being harsh." I was like, "It's a bullshit game at the end of the season that's meaningless. He just got to feel what it feels like in a bullshit, meaningless game in the fall that doesn't mean anything. He got to feel that sense of frustration and being pissed off and guilt and shame of booting two ground balls and being taken out of your position. You think he's going to work a little harder the next time he plays shortstop to make sure that scenario doesn't happen again?" I think so. In a situation where it's zero impact but still has the same impact on him, I felt like that was a victory. Maybe it was a little harsh. Maybe it wasn't. I certainly think he's going to learn a lot more from that negative experience and not wanting that to happen again versus if I just let him kick two balls and stay in there and act like, "Oh hey, that happens, bad hop." No, your job is to get outs on ground balls. That's your job. That's the position. You need to do that. Too few people are experiencing early life losses or failures that teach them how to deal with it in the future.

Angus Reid: It's funny too, Ryan. I think a big problem, whether it's sports or not — but sports is the easiest one to showcase this — everything is too structured now. Kids don't play in the playground and get into a fight with their buddies because they called a foul and it wasn't, and they get tossed off the court and shunned by their peers, and they've got to work their way back on. Kids don't do much outside of structured environments. They go home and play video games that have nothing to do with their sport. We played basketball practice, went to the playground, played four more hours. We wanted to get on the big kids' court. To do that, you had to compete, and you had to be tough enough that if they didn't call a foul, you just had to keep rolling with it. You couldn't complain and whine, or you're getting tossed. There were no adults to come save you. Then you went back to your structured environments. We had our fun in the unstructured environments on the streets playing, making up games. You wanted peer acceptance, and the only way to get peer acceptance was to be able to handle whatever was thrown at you.

It's our fault. We shuttle them around from structured practice to structured practice. There's also the institutional side where we've now businessized sports. Everyone's a personal trainer, nutritionist. Kids just don't figure out weights by the community center with their buddies and make stupid mistakes and follow some goon in the corner that they lift too hard. That's all fun. That's growing up. Nobody does that anymore. I can't believe how many 13-year-olds have physiotherapists and nutritionists. I'm like, "Dude, we just ate whatever and nothing was supposed to hurt. My physio says I shouldn't practice. You're 13 years old." This is crazy to me. They're so protected by adults and people that have almost financial vested interests that they just follow the rules and do what they're told. Instead of what we did — we figured it out by trial and error with our peers with no adult supervision. You lost, you got shunned, you got left out, and you wanted to fight to get back in. You couldn't run to mom and dad because we didn't want to hear from you for another six hours. You're supposed to be out. That's a lost way of being raised now.

How do we still ingrain that sort of ownership, that resilience, that want, that will to say, "I'm bringing my best because I want to be a somebody and I don't want to get left out here. I want to be a part of the group that's moving forward"? It's sad to say, but I think we now have to ease them back to that because if we heavy hand everybody, 90% of the kids are going to quit and they'll never start again. We can't just let them be okay with it. We've got to make it so they realize the goal here is to get better, and to get better requires pushing against force. Force is hard. It's resistance. It's difficulty. It's challenge. That's the only way you'll ever actually have any pride. Nobody has pride by overcoming nothing.

Ryan Hanley: Completely agree. I think this idea that somehow hierarchies are bad has permeated, and I think it's one of the most insidious lies that have been told. Everything in life is a hierarchy, and it should be, in my opinion. Now, the problem with that is at times people will use nefarious ways of getting to the top, or they will get to the top and they will become dictators. However, if you are a person of agency operating in — there's this guy, his name's George Mack. He's got a great Substack. If anyone's on Substack, follow Finding Peak. He talks about this idea of high agency. What does it mean to be a person of high agency? Much of it is just operating as an independent person with your own viewpoints, independent thinking. It doesn't mean you're a libertarian. It doesn't mean you're some crazy conspiracy. It just means you approach each situation through your own set of filters and values, and you adhere to those filters and values as often as you possibly can.

If you have high agency people operating inside of a hierarchy, that's a good thing. If I know that my performance has me on the second team, I now know exactly where I am and what I need to do. If I want to be on the first team, I know, "Okay, I want to be a linebacker and there's three linebackers, which means I have to be better than one of those three guys at the thing that they do." That's what I need. Now I know the work I have to put in. I know what my metric is. Sure, maybe I could say it's unfair that they're a senior or it's unfair that they were born with an extra 40 pounds. All those things are true. Life is unfair.

Angus Reid: That's the thing. Once you get out into the real world, which is what so many of these 20 and 30-year-olds today that are online complaining are dealing with, they were never told that life was unfair. They were never told, "I'm sorry, right now you are not as good as him. He's playing. You're not playing." Or, "Hey, he's selling more than you. He gets the company car." Or, "She's better at business development than you, so she's number one and you're number two. You don't get to go on the trip because she's the one that hit her numbers." It should be that way because that loss to me of not starting or not going on the company trip or not getting the perk — that gives me a target. It gives me a thing to point at.

Instead, I think so much of the anxiety and stress we feel today is we don't know what to do. "Do I do this? Do I become this? Well, if I become this, then I can't be this." We don't have this clear focused direction on what we actually want to be. So we don't actually know the things that we need to incrementally improve at to become better, to get to the level that we want to get at. It gives clarity, and clarity gives reason and purpose for all your actions. You start auditing what you're doing every day: "Is it moving me closer?" Without a target, how do you know?

Angus Reid: You and I know we run into this problem. The whole world now is trying to feel good, and "feel good" is the vaguest notion you've ever had. It's a target you never hit. That's just a constant dopamine rush to feel good. We want to be good. To be good, we have to know what that takes, what that means. You said you need measurable targets. I write about it in the book. Those targets will move throughout time, but every moment you have to have reason and purpose for your actions. "Why am I doing this? I'm doing this to get here." Review. "Maybe I got to tweak that. That's fine. I'm not moving closer. Good. We'll change." That gives your actions purpose and it gives you purpose.

Something you said about high agency — I speak to our team all the time, our high school kids all the time. We talked about some kids are born with more money in the bank from daddy and more connections and whatever. That's life. I always tell the kids, more important than having the advantage is being the advantage. That's who you are. If you have an advantage, you can lose that advantage, and then you don't have anything anymore. If you have an advantage, someone else can get that same advantage. In tech and business, you got the advantage because of this. Sooner or later, someone else is going to have that too. Now what do you got? But if you are the advantage, you're a high agency person that is always able to see reality and make whatever adjustment is needed to keep moving closer to the target that you have selected. That's a unique skill that can be learned by everybody. But we got to get away from wanting to feel good. That clouds everything. You want to be good. To be good is: "This is what I want. This is what it takes. This is what it doesn't take. Now, every action — are you doing these things or not?"

Angus Reid: It's very simple. When I coach strength training or diet, these foods will help you. These won't. If you're eating them, you're not getting close to where you want to get to. It feels good. That's irrelevant. You want to be here. You want to be good. And you and I know there is no better feeling in the world than becoming who you set out to become, who you've decided.

Ryan Hanley: And I said a big thing: you don't want to be someone you don't want to be. You don't want to be happy. You want to be doing what you've decided to do. And later, if it's not what you like anymore, you choose again. But every moment, you are actually living your life. You're not just existing, trying to feel good, chasing the next dopamine hit or whatever guru has told you will make your life happy. Become somebody of purpose. That is rare today. It's rare.

Angus Reid: Yeah. And the worst part is, when we find someone in our life who has a purpose, it's so attractive. Even if their purpose isn't something you're even interested in. Just when you see somebody with purpose and passion for something, you're interested. You could completely disagree with it. You're interested though. You want to know what they have to say. You want to hear them.

Ryan Hanley: I love — and this is going to sound crazy to everyone listening who is a longtime listener — but I love listening to AOC. I love listening to her. And I'll tell you why. I honestly believe that she is doing what she honestly believes is best for this country. Some of her peers on the Democratic side, I do not think that's true. I think that's true of Republicans too. I think a lot of politicians, most politicians, are there for primarily selfish or self-oriented reasons, or they got corrupted very easily. However, with her, I think her viewpoint, what she's been taught, what her belief systems are, bananas. But I'm very attracted from a personal psychology, from a human psychology perspective — not physical attraction — but I'm attracted by the way she communicates, the passion that she brings, how she takes these topics which have no receipts. She's basically selling air. All of the philosophy that she is espousing has zero receipts behind it. If anything, the receipts are net negative. These are things that have been shown through history to drive you right into the mountain. However, she believes them and she passionately conveys them. So you're attracted to the passion, even if you don't agree. Yet so few of us, to your point, grab onto purpose and passion. And then we wonder why no one is attracted to what we're doing, why no one wants to come work for our company, or why no one wants to hire us to do a keynote or listen to our podcast. It's because you're just existing. You're just putting things out to put them out. What gets you fired up in the morning? What is the thing that, when you do that thing, you can't think of anything else?

This has been a big eye-opener for me with ADHD. I think we talked about it last time. Diagnosed three years ago, I have very severe, pinned-to-the-top ADHD. At first I was like, what does that mean? The idea kind of fits. But as I've gotten into what it actually is, oftentimes people with ADHD, their brains were wired to be hunters or warriors. I'm not trying to position myself as some sort of special hunter or warrior, but 20% of the population has this difference in brain chemistry and structure. The idea is, on the things that you are interested in and passionate about, you become hyper-focused, more focused than a normie can possibly get to. However, the opposite is also true. On the things that you're not passionate about, you could give two shits and you have no ability to placate someone. That's probably anyone who's ever had a conversation with me about something that I wasn't interested in. You're well aware of what that looks like, although I do try very hard.

My point is, that has taught me how important being that unique, driven, purposeful person is. We've talked about Jordan Peterson before. He is the one that opened me up to this idea of "be a monster." Become a monster, know how to use the sword, know how to shoot a gun, know some sort of martial art, have intelligence, have energy, have aggression, but then learn how to control it in a way that allows you to live this purpose-filled life. Because if you can do that, then you have the skills, the confidence, the agency to be who you need to be while focusing on a mission. This idea of toxic masculinity and hyper aggression — boys aren't allowed to roughhouse in the halls anymore. They've lost that. They're almost afraid. I'm reading between the tea leaves, not a licensed psychologist, but I almost see a fear of being aggressive.

When I tell my son — because I told you, he doesn't have this natural killer instinct, but he's highly talented. I've seen it in moments. I used to say on the basketball court with him, Duke's going to suck until he gets hit the first time. Once he gets hit, that trigger in his brain of holding back — he's holding back, holding back — all of a sudden he gets hit and that adrenaline drops into his system and now he's a killer. Now he's crossing dudes up and shooting. And I'm like, dude, why do you need permission to go out and be that person? Why do you have to get hit or have somebody say something to you? I think it's because they're almost fearful. They don't understand what non-toxic aggression and masculinity looks like, so they're afraid to go out and be that hyper-aggressive person. I'm not a hundred percent sure why that is, but it definitely seems to be the case. They need permission to be aggressive.

Angus Reid: I think — and again, we're not psychologists, we're people out there working with youth and we see what we see mostly. One thing I really view is kids have never been more talented. They've never been more athletic. They've never been stronger. They've never been smarter. Our kids are smart and sharp. But I see a general lack of courage and confidence. So they play safe. You can say nobody wants to get caught on social media. It's before that. It's this fear of saying, "This is who I am. This is what I'm going to do. And I'm going to own it. This is where I'm headed with life." Everybody is just scared to stand out.

I think part of the blame is we have institutionalized everything they've done. So they've just played by the rules. They've done what they're told. They're good at what they're told to do. They get good grades because they played the rules right. When we were growing up, we didn't have as much structure. So you had to figure it out. You needed to develop courage. Or you were on the bench. Or you weren't invited out. Or you didn't get a date. Or you didn't get invited to the party. That took courage to put yourself out there and try to get in with the cool guys, or ask that girl, or show up. You're going to get booed. Yeah, but I want to go. That's been dulled down to a point that they speak when they're asked. They answer the way they're supposed to answer. They're very good. They're very intelligent. But that whole "this is how I'm going to do it, and I'm probably going to get in trouble, but I'll learn from that and adapt and move on" — I think that has been raised out of them. That's our fault. That's on us.

Nobody's happy when you're muting yourself, when you're dulling yourself down. Of course you've got to take some medication. Then you get older, you drink or do drugs because it doesn't feel good to not be who you really know you should be. But now you get to an age where you don't even know where to start. It's been so knocked out of you. Courage — you can push the point that it almost is gone. You missed going. That was the midlife crisis problem for our generation of 50: "I hate my life. I got all the money and the cars." But now they're hitting it at 18 going, "I don't even like myself." Because they never had the courage to try to find out who they want to be and go.

Ryan Hanley: Yeah, that's exactly it. They've never tried to be who they are. Risk has been removed. As you said, we let you win without trying. So why would I try? And then you realize that's where the enjoyment is, but it's too late now because I don't have the courage anymore.

Angus Reid: You probably see this in football. Today, parents' willingness to go to a coach and complain about playing time or where they're playing. I would be mortified regardless of what was happening on the team, regardless of the coach hated me, didn't play me, treated me unfairly, held me to — no matter what was going on, if one of my parents actually went to my coach and had some shit to say, I would be absolutely mortified. It would be awful. And today, they're just like, "Oh, my kid's not getting playing time. I'm going to go talk to the coach. What's up, homie?"

[Sound of someone entering the room]

Angus Reid: Is your brother here? Tell your brother to come down here too. Say hi to Mr. Angus. This is my buddy. He wrote the book. This is Colty. This is my younger son, Colty. And then this is Duke, the one that's reading your book.

Ryan Hanley: What's up, Duke? How are you, bud?

Duke: Hi.

Ryan Hanley: So this is Angus. He wrote *Teenager*, right?

Angus Reid: Great. Thanks, buddy.

Ryan Hanley: So Colty, I just want Duke to talk to Mr. Angus for a couple minutes just about the book that he's reading. Duke, is there any particular — what's one big takeaway that you've had from the book so far while you're putting your book report together?

Duke: So I just actually finished my book report. And one of my big takeaways was don't give up and always work hard.

Ryan Hanley: So you have a former professional athlete, now a high level coach, won awards, won a Grey Cup — a very high performing athlete. Do you have any questions for him about the book or about what you read? Was there anything that came to your mind that you'd like to ask him, being that you have this very unique opportunity here? There's no wrong answer. Anything that comes to mind.

Duke: So like in the book, it says when you quit football — what year did you start playing it again?

Angus Reid: I was in the eighth grade. I quit because it was tough. It was hard. It sucked. Equipment was no fun. Everybody had already played before. I quit because it was hard. I thought fun was supposed to be easy because I was 13 years old and life had been pretty easy up to that point. I never played again until grade 11. That took that long. I had the health issue that happened in grade nine with my appendix. It took that many years to build courage up to get back into that fight. Not until grade 11, which is a late time to do it. It was terrifying and scary. But if I didn't build the courage to start, I wouldn't be here today. That's a long gap for a lot of people. I didn't have friends and didn't feel a part of anything. I wasn't achieving anything. Life sucked in grade nine and grade 10, watching TV all day, avoiding struggle and avoiding challenge. In the 11th grade, I came back and I sucked again. But I made a commitment this time and I decided to get better every day. It's shocking what compounds over time when you put in the work. So yeah, 11th grade is when I started again.

Ryan Hanley: Any more questions? You've got to have one more.

Duke: Just one more?

Ryan Hanley: Well, you can ask more if you have more.

Duke: Okay. What year did you start playing football?

Angus Reid: That was grade 11. Let's call it that. I don't know. I'm an old man now. That would have been like 1991.

Duke: Do you mean pro football?

Angus Reid: Yeah. 2001 was my rookie season. I retired in 2014. So I played 13 years. I was center. That was about 90 pounds ago. Even at 300 pounds, I was the smallest guy in the league at what I did. Remarkably small to be able to pull that off. I was playing a game amongst giants, doing what I could to get out there and not just hang with them, but beat them as much as I could every single time I had a chance.

Ryan Hanley: One question that I had for you, Angus, with Duke — he's still growing into his body. Sometimes he'll play against kids at the same level who have just matured faster. They're bigger, stronger, faster. In the sixth grade, you have these fairly large disparities in physical development. If you were coaching someone like Duke, who is incredibly talented skill-wise but is still growing into his body, how would you recommend he approach playing the game and playing kids who are maybe a little more physically gifted? That was a lot of your career — you being the smallest guy on the field but being able to compete. What did you do and how did you approach that kind of physical difference to be as successful as you were?

Angus Reid: It's a good point. When I got to the pro level, I had a great coach that I wrote my first book about. Thank you, coach. He always shared something that's always stuck. The comforting crux is that perfect technique can win against anyone. It doesn't mean you will win against anyone every time, but your saving grace is playing the position you are playing with the very best technical ability possible. Whatever you're being taught, the technique and the fundamentals — perfecting that will always give you the best chance. You and I both know the better the athlete, the better the probability there's laziness in terms of fundamentals because they don't need it, particularly at a young age. They're fast, so they just run faster than everyone. They jump. You see it in every sport. That won't change even at the higher level. Your saving grace is spending your focus doing it the right way you've been taught to the very best of your ability.

Go compete against them. You'll beat them sometimes, you won't. But all you're measuring is: are you getting better? The problem a lot of people have is "I couldn't beat this guy." But you got better. That's the long game that matters. You're using them to improve yourself. That's hard for people to measure. You want to win every game you go into, but the real goal is: are you constantly getting better? Playing against better opponents forces you to not try to play their game, but to play your game better — technically sound, knowing the game inside out, making the right decisions. You keep improving that, you'll always be able to compete against anybody.

Ryan Hanley: Any more questions?

Duke: No.

Ryan Hanley: All right, hey, good man. Thank you. Thanks for coming in and thanks for reading the book. That means a lot. That's awesome.

[Duke exits]

Ryan Hanley: He said he really liked it, which is awesome. I'm glad we got to do that from a timing perspective. I had been telling him about you, that we were going to have a chat. So I'm glad you got to talk.

So dude, the book in general — is this geared towards teenagers like Duke reading it? Is it for parents on talking to teenagers? Is it something where we get the book and maybe you read it with your teenager, with your kids, in conjunction, and you kind of talk through it together? What's your best case scenario there?

Angus Reid: The initial thing is it's written for teenagers to read, so they might actually read it. It's in teenager language in terms of ease of digestion, but hopefully it takes a long time to fully digest it. Teenagers should engage it. It's not deep, deep dives, but every chapter is a universal lesson that's applicable to a teenager. Funny thing is, they're universal lessons. So an adult picks it up, they're going to challenge themselves thinking stuff through right where they are in life. But the perfect goal for me is teenagers that are on teams and groups and clubs do it like a book study. There's a coach or a teacher that reads it — they'll probably benefit from it. But I have follow-up workbooks coming out now where they all engage in group discussions amongst themselves. They start auditing their life: Who are my friends? Where do I want to go? What am I good at? What do I like to do that I'm too scared to even try? How do we formulate your playbook so you get going?

Teenagers can read it on their own if they want inspiration, but it's designed to challenge you to think through your life right now as a teenager. Adults, parents can read it. It might give you insights, conversation starters. But this is written so teens will actually hopefully read the book and not just read it, but engage it like your son did, and then follow up and reflect and start mapping out their life and making decisions and challenging themselves — all stuff we've talked about. Taking risks, giving it a shot, going all in on yourself, betting on yourself, formulating your team. Who are you around? What are the mentors you need to find? Who are your friends you've got to drop? Who are your friends you've got to find? What do you need to do that's going to help you get there that you're terrified to do, but you know you've got to do it? How can you find people that are doing it to make that path easier? Choosing better mentors and heroes and inspirations. Who do you have? What are you following on your social media feeds? Are these people losers? Are they actually giving you insights or inspiration or tangible proof to move on? So it's good for anybody, but it is written for teenagers specifically.

Ryan Hanley: I can't wait for the workbook. When you were telling me about it, I was like, I'm going to get a workbook for each one of us — for my younger son Duke, my younger son Colt, and myself. I want to make it part of our routine, the three of us working through this together. I've said this before on the show and I believe it: a lot of my life, I've always been a reader, always been a massive consumer, always thought about stuff at a deeper level. But I didn't start really focusing on discipline, performance, commitment — these mental models, these ideas, these concepts to drive success — until I was in my mid-30s. I think to myself, what could I have become? I don't have a regret. This isn't regretful. It's a thought experiment. What could I have become if I learned those same lessons at 12, 13, 14, 15? Even if they didn't sink in the same way that they did in my mid-30s, or I wasn't as motivated because I hadn't had enough life experience yet to fully understand them — just getting those ideas in front of me at that age and having to work through them and think through them. Either I integrate them immediately and all my wildest dreams come true, or when I'm ready earlier in my life, they snap back to me as tools in my toolkit that I can pull up and utilize, versus having to hit rock bottom or have a bad moment in my life be the impetus to say, "I'm going to get my shit together and become the best version of myself at 35."

I think that's incredible. I also love the idea, especially with the workbook. In going through this with Duke — I haven't read the whole thing, but I've read a lot of parts of it as I've gone through his book report with him. The workbook marries it. My son read this book, amazing, hopefully some of those ideas digested. The workbook is more like: what did you digest, what didn't you, and how do we actually put it into play? Can you start to teach it back to me? Can you start to talk these terms back to me? That's where it really starts to sink in. Doing a workbook for this was an incredible idea. I'm very happy that you did.

Angus Reid: I wanted it to be more than just a fun read where they get inspired. You and I know we keynote. The backstory of this whole book is — I do corporate speaking now, but 25 years of my life since I started playing pro was speaking to teenagers in high schools. I did school talks for decades. I wanted to sort of package everything I'd ever shared with them into one piece because I can't do that forever anymore. The reality is, I wrote this book for my three young boys. One day they're not going to listen to dad directly, but dad wrote a book that's pretty cool. Here's all the messaging, all the wisdom I can bestow, kind of third party regurgitated because it's cool because it's in a book.

The workbook is more than just reading something. Now you've got to not just reflect — it's going to force you to build your playbook. This was my story. They're universal lessons. Take them, build your story now. We spoke about this earlier: make a decision of who you want to become. Pick a tangible target, not just saying "I'm going to be a good person." Pick an outlet. Pick sports, business, science, music. Just pick something so we can create a target, which will give reason and purpose now to all your actions. You start auditing. You've got to start finding your friends, your mentors, your teacher. You fill your day with every action that's going to marshal you towards your goal. Once you do that, whether that's where you want to become or not, you have the playbook on how to move towards something. You put it into something else. It doesn't matter. I try to build the framework as: this is how you navigate life. Pick whatever the hell you want right now. You're a teenager. Pick something. Make the team. You're not going to do that for the rest of your life, but how to get from A to B will be the exact same playbook to get from A to B anywhere. You're just going to plug in different variables as you get older.

An adult reads this and they're probably going to have to go, "Yeah, I've got to start hanging out with people that are already better than what I'm doing because I'm already the best in my group. That's not helping me." I have a whole chapter on super friends — the ones you're trying to keep up with. If you don't have those, you will never achieve what you can because you're already coasting. All the little things that matter. Whether it's a teenager trying to make the team — I hung out with buddies that were stronger and faster than me and I was trying to keep up with them. So I became better at weightlifting and training because I wanted to hang out with them. No different than business or life. You have all these ingredients. It's the recipe. A teenager can use it right now, just like a parent can use it right now, just like a business leader can use it right now. But I wanted to do something in teenage language so they don't have to wait till they're 30 to be like, "I wish I knew some of this stuff when I was younger." Here it is in my teenage world. Although it was 30 years removed and the world might be different, we're the same. We're all still kids scared. Are we good enough? Do we have friends? Are we cool? I want to be something, but I don't know if I can. It's never going to end. Yes, you can. This is what it takes. The cost is courage. The rest of it, I can tell you, the cost is courage. Wanting something enough that you're going to take that first step, and then we can roll.

Ryan Hanley: I don't know who originally said this, but I heard Ed Mylett say it the other day, and it was a great reminder. He said, "In case you need to hear this: action creates confidence. Confidence doesn't create action."

Angus Reid: Correct. Motion creates emotion, not the other way around.

Ryan Hanley: When you say that, people are probably listening going, "Oh, I've heard that before," or "Oh, that makes sense." But I think we forget it, even as adults. We're like, "Man, I'm not sure if I should do this," or "I'm not sure..." We have all these feelings of insecurity or doubt. Gary Vaynerchuk is the one who has said this particular version the most: you have to be willing to be terrible if you want to be amazing. You're never going to be amazing if you're not willing to be terrible for a period of time. That period of time might be super short. It may be when you're five, or when you're 12, or when you're 45. It doesn't really matter. But if you're not willing to be terrible, even for a short period of time, you have no chance of being amazing. Even if you have that natural step ahead — God-given athletic ability, money, parents' connections, the school you went to — if you aren't willing to be terrible, you're only ever going to be as good as that initial piece of luck that you had. That's the top. That person who we may look at — think about the NBA star who plays one season in the NBA and then they're gone. We go, "Oh my God, you got to play one season in the NBA. I would have loved to play." In their mind, when it's dark at night, regardless of what they say on the microphone, they're saying, "God, if only I had..." insert the things they didn't do to play that next year. Regardless of where you start or what God-given advantages you have, we're all wired to want to be better. If we aren't willing to be that awful version of ourselves — or a version that isn't as good as is expected of us — then we'll never get past that and truly see how good we could be. We forget that action is the only way to confidence.

Angus Reid: It's funny, Ryan. It takes us right back to the beginning of our conversation where we said the gap between the left and the right is everybody wants this because it's human nature. We have to be willing to accept that that requires doing. At the end of the day, doing requires courage. Just start. Just go. It's going to suck. Just get going. Get going and learn. Get better. You will never get better thinking your way to the end. You'll only get better doing, and you adapt and go. It's going to take a long time. It's going to take longer if you wait till tomorrow. Start and adjust course accordingly. Every step you'll become better, you'll learn, you'll equate. Every lesson you can apply. If you move your target later, you know who you are now and you know what you can handle. Everybody wants. The question is, are you going to do? The book is going to give you ideas and tips, but at the end of the day, we have to install with our youth courage again. Go. "Oh, what if? What if? What if what?" Go. Go. "What if I fall over?"

Angus Reid: You will fall over. Yeah, go. And you'll get up. Go. I will be with you, but I will not do it for you. I will be with you, but I will not do it for you. I will challenge you and clap for you and cheer for you, but you're going to have to learn to get up and then go more.

We always "what if" to the negative. We never "what if" to the positive. Why are we fearful creatures? We're terrified. Humans are fearful by nature. We need to overcome it.

I think back to your point — the news, social media, they lead with terrifying headlines because it gets our attention. We're scared. So we need more inspiration. We need more people like you said, we're drawn to people that say, "I don't care. I'm going anyways." Wow. That's incredible that person can do that. We all can. But we listen to all the noise because the noise knows what grabs our attention is fear. And fear impedes action. Nobody moves forward scared unless you have to. Voluntarily, when you're scared, you retreat. That's what we do.

Fearful people, your purpose has to be greater than what you're scared of. That's why, to me, I can't tell you what to do because I don't know what's going to override fear. Only you know. Like you said with your ADHD, when you find what you're focused on, I don't care what's in front of me. I'm plowing forward. The only way for some people to find that is to tinker, get busy doing stuff. Don't like it? Throw it out. Do the next thing. Throw it out. Do the next thing. Oh, I love this. Then go. This will override fear because this is you. You found an outlet.

Like I said in the book, you know more about where the future's headed than I do with AI and this whole world. Everybody's scared. I had a long talk to my dad who's 83 years old. He goes, "Angus, I'm really scared for your kids." I said, "I'm not." My kids are eight, six, and eight months old. I'm kind of scared for kids that are 25 right now because they were raised on a playbook that isn't the same. They don't know what to do.

In about 10 years — every 50 years, there's been a whole revolution of how the world changes. My kids will flourish because we'll have adjusted and they'll be of age to rip through the new way of living our lives and earning money. Just like when the industrial revolution was going to destroy everybody, it made everybody rich that adapted. The hard part is an adjustment. We'll move forward. I said, "Look, just keep getting better. This too will pass." Are you going to be on the other side though? The only way to be on the other side is to keep going. Fear impedes everybody and it keeps you looking around. Just pick something and keep diving forward with it. Just get better. We'll keep going.

Ryan Hanley: Dude, I could talk to you for hours. I love our conversations. I do want to drive everyone to your Instagram. I know you post a lot of stuff about football, but you also post a lot of motivational stuff. Angus's Instagram is absolutely blown up with these football videos that you're doing. So if your kid plays football, absolutely follow Angus. I'll have the link in the description. But you also post a lot of motivational stuff.

And for anyone out there who puts on events, Angus is one of my most recommended keynote speakers. When everyone asks me, "Hey, do you know somebody?" You are always on the list. There is no person out there who brings the energy, the connection, the insights, but also just a genuine giving a shit for the audience and what they get out of it. I've seen you speak live twice now. I don't normally stop and watch speakers, but I sit right in the back. I watch every word. I love the way you do your thing. Incredible speaker.

So besides the Instagram, et cetera, where can people get in your world? I'll have links to the book as well in the show notes. Scroll down. Where can people get involved in your world?

Angus Reid: I'm on X, AngusReid64. LinkedIn, you can find me. My website is AngusReid.ca. My keynote speaking's there, but on the book section with teenager, you can link and buy the book through Amazon or bulk orders through me.

But my real push here, Ryan, is to challenge local corporations and business leaders to sponsor. I don't want kids buying my book. I don't want your money. I want companies in their area to say, "Listen, I got a Boys and Girls Club here. I got my kids' baseball team. I got the school where my son goes to. I want to sponsor them getting their 50 books. They get the workbooks." And listen, you sponsor enough books, I'll do a keynote online for that company complimentary. You help my cause, I'll help your company. No problem.

All that information is on my website at AngusReid.ca. If you just click "Teenager Books," it's all there. Corporate sponsorships. Do something good in your community. Give kids that fighting chance they need. And I'll be there to support it all the way.

Ryan Hanley: I love it, bro. I appreciate the hell out of you. You're one of my favorite people. Thank you so much.

Angus Reid: Thank you for having me on, man. Keep doing what you're doing, Ryan. We need more people like you in this world.