--:-- Ryan Hanley: Today on the podcast, we have author, speaker, business entrepreneur, John Jantsch, author of many different books. In particular, we spend most of our conversation talking about his latest work, *The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur*, a book that dives into some of the lessons John learned researching transcendentalists, a time period in the late 1800s, mid-1800s. Emerson and Thoreau are some of the authors that you may know. This idea of self-reliance feels incredibly important, not just to entrepreneurs, but in every aspect of our life. If happiness is a derivative of meaning, then being self-reliant will help us find that meaning. That to me feels like something we need to talk about, and that's why I had John on the show. I am incredibly happy to bring him to you right now.
--:-- John Jantsch: I think a lot of entrepreneurs kind of relate to self-reliance. As I dug a little deeper into a lot of the literature from that time period, even stuff we were told to read in school like *The Scarlet Letter* and *Moby Dick*, all the protagonists were very kind of self-reliant, do your own thing. It was almost like the times, all the writing and all the literature, which is actually still considered some of the best literature in America, all had kind of a vibe to it. I think it was very much a "trust yourself, do your own thing, you've got to be true to you," which is such great entrepreneurial advice.
--:-- As I got deeper into it, there were probably 70 or 80 authors that I ended up researching. There was just a consistent thread. Another thing that struck me is that about every fourth generation has some sort of upheaval and societal upheaval. That was certainly one with the Civil War. There are some parallels, I think, culture-wise, society-wise, political-wise, where we kind of are at that same divide. I think that a lot of the self-reliance literature really is not just about doing your own thing. It's also about having empathy for people who don't see your vision and learning from them. There's almost a healing aspect, I think, to the more self-reliant we are, as opposed to relying on governments and political parties.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I could not agree with you more. It's funny what I take from it. I don't know that I would have identified before I started researching for this conversation today as someone who was into transcendentalism writing. It's a tough word to say and I don't have a strong grip on the English language. But I've always loved Emerson's work in particular. It's complex and sometimes it almost feels like he's kind of contradicting himself.
--:-- John Jantsch: I think you're absolutely right. There are times when he does that, and he actually admits it. That's a trait of self-reliance: it's okay to change your mind.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Yes, yes, yes. That part of it's funny. Yesterday I was talking to Brian Fanzo, and we were talking about how the world is obviously very polarized in our society today. We started talking a little bit about how you navigate that, especially from a business standpoint, talking about the various business cultures and how as a leader you work through that. We found this idea, and I think this is very much in tune with what we're talking about.
--:-- What I thought was really interesting in researching for this was this odd sense where we started talking about how it feels like there are two sides. I actually tweeted this today: there are two sides of a social media conversation. There are individuals who are looking for that one difference so that we can hate each other, and then there are individuals who are looking for that one commonality so that we can find peace. It's almost like the two sides don't know the other exists. The side that's looking for hate is like everybody hates everybody, and the side that's looking for commonality is like, "Yeah, the world's pretty good. Things are, I'm enjoying myself." It's really weird how the two almost don't even see each other.
--:-- I take that from his work. It's almost like if you can accept who you are, then you kind of move towards commonality. But if you're very uncomfortable with who you are and you need someone to tell you where to be, then you're going to fight and hate for what you think should be the side.
--:-- John Jantsch: Absolutely. Initially, Emerson was a preacher. Some of the writing and some of the thinking were really kind of trying to reform some of the church thinking that he was in. Sometimes it's a little off-putting to actually call it transcendentalism. People are like, "Wait a minute, is that some sort of religion?" But it really was almost more of a social reform movement. When you read deeply, you see that they really borrowed from some of the Eastern religion traditions. This idea that we're all connected in some fashion runs really deeply through all of their writing. The idea of hating somebody else is in part to hate a part of yourself.
--:-- I've always believed that. When people talk about things like, "Should I get paid for referrals?" or "Should you offer incentive for referrals?" I'm like, "Look, the universe keeps score." Because I think there is this giant connection. There is a spiritual element to this book and a lot of their writing. But I don't think you have to go too far in your religious or spiritual beliefs to buy into a lot of the practical nature of some of this stuff.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I completely agree with you. You just talked about referrals and *The Referral Engine* is one of the books that you wrote. For those of you at home who may not be completely familiar with your work or are just catching up, I would love just a little bit of the backstory. I found you when I was working as an insurance salesman for my wife's family's independent agency, a small business in every way, shape, and form. You were the guy pounding small business stuff where everyone seems to eventually go into big business. You really kind of kept coming back to how a lot of the sales, marketing, relationship building tactics applied to small business. That was really where I found you. Can you talk a little bit about that part of when you started writing books and *Duct Tape Marketing* and all that kind of stuff?
--:-- John Jantsch: I'll be brief on this. I've got to go all the way back to the start. Right out of college, I went to work for an ad agency. I did that for about five years and kind of felt like, "Hey, any dummy can run a business. I'll be one." So I jumped out and did my own thing. I really just chased project work like a lot of people. "Hey, I can hustle. Do you need that? Sure, I can do that." I built a bit of a business just doing that. I had a couple of clients that were small business owners, and I just really loved working with small business owners. But man, they were very challenging in the way that I'd been taught to do it. They had the same needs a lot of times, but certainly never the same budgets or even attention spans, frankly.
--:-- At some point I said, "Here's what I'm going to do. If I want to work with small business owners, I'm going to create this approach where I can walk into a business owner and say, 'Marketing is a system. Here's what I'm going to do, here's what you're going to do, here the results we hope to get, and by the way, here's what it costs.'" In an attempt to try to solve my frustration, the light bulb went on immediately. The first three people I said that to said, "Where do I sign?" They had had so much trouble buying marketing services because everybody was selling the idea of the week and they couldn't put anything together, so nothing was really working.
--:-- I decided to give that approach a name because I wanted it to be a system that had a name, almost like a product. I came up with *Duct Tape Marketing*. Don't ask me how or why, but it stuck and it really seemed to resonate with this idea of simple, effective, affordable. I started writing about it. This was right around the turn of the century, where people were starting to do things online. I turned it into a blog. Ultimately, the name resonated so much, I just made it the name of my business and put *Duct Tape Marketing* on everything. I started selling a course, productized my approach, and that attracted publishers who wanted me to write a book. That was really the genesis of *Duct Tape Marketing*.
--:-- It also started attracting other independent marketing consultants who said, "Hey, I agree with this approach. How can I get it?" So I now have a network of about 150 independent marketing consultants around the world that license the *Duct Tape Marketing* methodology and approach. As a group, we work with thousands of small businesses. You kind of hit the nail on the head. I like to call them "real small businesses," the mom and pop places that a lot of people aren't going after except for somebody like Google trying to sell them some stuff. I think they're the salt of the earth. Helping them get their life back through marketing is kind of my life mission, and it runs through pretty much everything I do.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: For whatever it's worth, I know some insurance agencies that have adopted the *Duct Tape Marketing* philosophy and have found incredible success with it. It's nice when you see someone who has a system like yours and you're like, "Oh man, I really love the way that's packaged up. It's tight. It makes sense." And then it's even cooler when you hear that it actually works.
--:-- I want to spend most of our time on *The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur*. If anyone has any interest, just Google John's name, Google *Duct Tape Marketing*, you will find all the books, all the back episodes of the blog. You've been doing a podcast since basically podcasts started. There's a library of information there. I don't want to spend time on that stuff because you've said it, you've done it. There's plenty of places that people can go find it.
--:-- I want to start looking at this idea of the self-reliant entrepreneur. Since we already talked a little bit about where self-reliance came from for you, my first question is: do you think that we lost this for a period? For you to write this book today, it makes me think that there was a time period where the idea of self-reliance was counterculture. Maybe to a certain extent, it rose, kind of like stoicism has with Ryan Holiday and son, and then it had to have fallen away for it now to feel like a new concept again. Do you agree with that, and what was the impetus of that?
--:-- John Jantsch: I think you're absolutely right. It probably has fallen away to a degree. You see it from some of the ways that it rears its ugly head in negative ways. But one of the things that's interesting about the entrepreneur is I think the entrepreneur is more geared to seeking that out anyway. A lot of times we're on our own. We've got so many voices in our head, people telling us we're wrong and telling us we can't do this. A lot of people get in their car, go to work, punch the clock, come home, eat dinner. They don't have quite as many things telling them that they can't do what it is they're trying to do, especially if their idea seems new and different and that scares people. I think a lot of entrepreneurs have probably held on to this idea maybe more than society as a whole.
--:-- That's why I really wanted to apply it to the entrepreneur. I was always amazed as I was researching. I'd read some passage and go, "How is that not written yesterday?" It's 150 years old, but it is so relevant today. If you want me to give my take, and this is strictly an opinion, I'm not a historian by any means, but I think around 2008, 2009, we saw a societal shift that has now kind of reared its ugly head in completion. It coincides with what people, depending on who you ask, call the Great Depression or the second Great Depression in the United States. I really think that what came before that and the sort of the last decade at least, we've kind of hit this trough. You'll see a lot of people more actively retaining some of the things we've talked about. I see a lot more activism around saying, "Hey, we need to come together." I'm sure that there are some people that have written about all the cycles in history throughout time and what they mean and how they come and how you predict them. But the timing feels right to really be pushing this idea.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: It's funny that the economy since the Great Recession in 2008, 2009, has been nothing but up. We're in the longest upcycle that we've had since like the 80s. At the same time, there is this odd sense of—I don't want to say doom because that feels a little too heavy—but this odd sense that everything isn't okay at the same time. Some people have written about a recession that's coming or a correction. My gut tells me that has to be right. It just can't go up forever. The idea of being self-reliant during a time of turmoil feels incredibly important. Is that the impetus here?
--:-- John Jantsch: Absolutely. Most people's two biggest expenditures are on their entertainment and on their ego. A lot of that buying the big car, buying the boat, buying the stuff that feeds the ego—and I'm not against toys and having fun and all the things you can do—but the people that are very driven by that, a lot of times it's really driven out of a sense of fear. Part of the idea of self-reliance so much is about trust. Thoreau is a great example. Throughout *Walden*, he talks about how we need to consume less and make more. That certainly is a theme. As I've gotten older and gotten farther along in my business life, I'm way less concerned about looks on social media and all of that kind of stuff. I've got to tell you, it's a lot more joyful.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: For someone who has never read Emerson or Thoreau or any of the others of the time period, break down this concept of self-reliance. Give an idea of what were they specifically addressing at the time, and then what does it mean for us today, 150 years later?
--:-- John Jantsch: Originally, it was a bit of a reform movement or a social reform movement. At the heart, the idea of self-reliance was self-trust. Everyone's unique. Everyone has the ability to do whatever they want to do, whatever they believe. They don't need to follow the well-worn path of what other people are telling you to do. If you have a dream, you absolutely owe it to yourself to go for it, to follow your own path, and listen only to you.
--:-- What's interesting is a lot of people kind of put that as, "Yeah, I'm going to earn $10 million by the time I'm 30." Theirs was really much more about how do you express your true self? How do you follow your truth? If earning $10 million by the time you're 30 is a way for you to express your truth, then go for it. But there was so much in this work and in this literature, especially as I apply it to a business, that a better you makes a better business. So much of what they wrote about was how you discover what that is, how you stay true to it, how you keep the demons out that are telling you that you're no good. There were certainly a lot of writing on solitude, on journaling, and on walking. Thoreau has an entire essay that I recommend people read titled *Walking*. It's all about this idea of getting outside. Another theme that runs through a great deal of this work is that nature is a perfect example of how we should live. Emerson has an essay called *Nature* that I recommend people read.
--:-- The idea was that you have to get some downtime and get away from the hustle and the bustle. They didn't have social media. They didn't have the internet. And they were saying that. So imagine how important that idea of self-reflection is today.
--:-- One thing that we've probably been a little bit remiss about—I should talk about the structure of the book a little bit.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Please do.
--:-- John Jantsch: There is some history in this, but this is not a history book. I'm not trying to explain to people what all these people were thinking. I've basically made a daily inspirational for entrepreneurs. That was the goal. It takes the literature from this time period, and I curated a lot of the nuggets that I think are really gold. Every day you get one of those nuggets. It starts January 1st, January 2nd, you get a page a day. You get one of those nuggets from probably 100 different authors, 366 pages. Then I riff for 100, 150 words, just trying to apply it to my experience. Buyer beware—that's really what it is. It's my opinion, my experience about how to live as a self-reliant entrepreneur. Then I give you a challenge question every day, which is hopefully something that you can center on for the entire day and give some thought.
--:-- The idea behind this book is it takes you about three minutes to read a page. It might go very nicely into somebody's morning routine if they're doing some journaling or some self-reflection or meditation. It was kind of meant for that because the second you leave the door, there's going to be hundreds of people trying to help and hundreds of things trying to beat you down. The idea behind this is maybe just a daily dose of, "Hey, you got this."
--:-- Ryan Hanley: What changes have you made after doing this research and diving in? What things have you seen change about your own life?
--:-- John Jantsch: That's really insightful for you to ask that. I have been telling people all the time that I grew more in this past year from writing this book than I have in a long period of time. It was such a compact amount of time that I spent with this literature and spent thinking about what I was going to share. Don't tell my clients this, but I spent very little time on social media now. That's one of the visible things. I feel like I certainly have a much greater sense that the world's still going to be here. I'm going to look for things that bring me joy and nothing else. There's just no sense in dwelling on, "Did I get asked to that conference? Am I on the top 50 blah blah blahs to follow on Twitter?" That stuff just is so unimportant. That's probably the most sort of visible, physical thing that I can identify.
--:-- I pick the book up now. I've got the pages of it. I pick the book up every day. I have it sitting by me, and it's not been printed yet, but I go back to it. That's one of the beauties of one of these daily books. You can go back, you can read through the whole thing. Then on January 1st the next year, you're a different person. It's amazing. How many times have you read *Self-Reliance*?
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I've read it a dozen times, and every time I read it, I was like, "When did that get added? I missed that part last time. That's really powerful." You read these things and they hit you because you're ready for them to hit you that day. I completely agree with that.
--:-- I heard—I'm going to forget who it was, either Holiday or Godin or one of these guys, or it might've been James Altucher—talking about books. He said everyone wants to read books and then take a picture of them and throw it on Instagram for some sort of status signaling around how smart we are. Instead of reading ten books just so you can status signal on Instagram that you're this big reader, how about you just read the same book that is actually worthwhile ten times? You're probably going to get a lot more out of that.
--:-- You asked me how many times I read it. I have this essay printed out. This is the third time I've printed it. I've read it, and it's funny how you start to key in every time. I underline and you start to key in on different phrases and different things. I'm completely with you on that. I feel like our perception is who we are today is who we're always going to be, and that's so far from accurate in every way. The case in point is I always key in on this line from his: "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards." That's one of my favorite lines ever written in any book. If I ever get a tattoo, I may have that phrase tattooed on my body. But then the next time I read it, this time I read it, I can't get to—and they're both on the first page. I have tons of notes, but on the first page, this idea of "the inmost in due time becomes the outmost." That line this time I read it has been like the primer for everything. The first time I read it, "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards" was the primer for the rest of the work. This time, this line, I can't get out of my head. It's why what we're talking about here on the idea of self-reliance and what that actually means.
--:-- I think solitude is important. This is where I want your feedback. My perception is that solitude, nature, time, quiet, mindfulness—these things are important, not so that you can be away from people, but rather so that you can understand yourself better so that you can understand others. You can't understand someone else if you don't know who you are. That time away allows you to start to—you can't get away from yourself if you're alone. That's all you have. It's what Rogan talks about when he sticks himself in that isolation tank for two hours. He can't get out of his own head.
--:-- I run a startup to a certain extent. I have found the overwhelm of all the various things that come in. I sometimes find that I'm underperforming in tasks that should be right in my wheelhouse because I have all these other inputs. From all the reading that you've done and the advice that you're now pushing through and your snippets that you're adding, I think a lot of people share that. What are some of the things that entrepreneurs or leaders or really anyone can be doing from this work to start to find some peace and find a little more meaning in their work?
--:-- John Jantsch: A number of the things that you mentioned run through a lot of the pages. I organized the book so that every month kind of has a theme. We're in September. Congruence is a theme for September. It's not outward overt, but it kind of brings a little bit together. You mentioned a theme that runs through is mindfulness. That's not a new idea by any means, but it was a very central idea to this idea of self-reliance. We've got to pay attention. We've got to be here. You talked about the inputs. The worst inputs in the world are the ones from yesterday and the ones that are for tomorrow that we're already thinking about. It not only takes us away from doing our best work, but it kind of robs us of the joy that we could have while doing that work. We've all experienced that.
--:-- I think one of the best ways to give somebody a true experience of the book, if you don't mind, is I would love to read one.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Please do. We're recording this on—and it's funny you talked about this. This passage is from *Self-Reliance* and it talks about mindfulness.
--:-- John Jantsch: This happens to be for September 12th, which is when we're recording this. It starts with the title, then the reading, then my work, and then the question. Here we go. September 12th. What is time?
--:-- John Jantsch: "These roses under my window make no reference to the former roses or to the better ones. They are for what they are and they exist with God today. There is no time to them. There is simply the rose. It is perfect in every moment of its existence. Before a leaf bud is burst, its whole life acts. In the full bloom flower, there is no more. In the leafless root, there is no less. Its nature is satisfied and it satisfies nature in all moments alike."
--:-- That's Ralph Waldo Emerson, *Self-Reliance* from 1841. Almost every work cited in this book at some point turns to nature for an example or a metaphor related to living in the present. So let's start off today talking about what it means to not live in the present, because that's where most of us spend a great deal of our life. Not living in the present means you open yourself to becoming a victim of the ravages of time.
--:-- Here's a fun experiment for you. Google the question, "Does time really exist?" and prepare yourself for some mind-altering reading. Using your experiences from the past and dreaming about your life or your business in the future is okay. It's necessary. But it's only when our thoughts and feelings are dictated by our past or future that we need to find a way to get rooted firmly in the immediate present.
--:-- The reason nature makes such a fine example of mindfulness is that in nature there's one giant emerging moment. There is no past, no future, really no time. So there's no way for nature to develop any bad habits related to such social constructs. So we spend time focused on the deadline, working as a means to an end, fixated on Monday instead of Sunday, worried what others might say or not say about our best work.
--:-- We won't solve this today. This is your lifelong work. So settle in and get to practice. Your challenge question today: What are you experiencing right now in this moment? Describe it.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Tremendous podcast from Mr. John Jantsch. That's what I'm experiencing. I love that framework, and thank you for reading that. Sitting here and you reading that passage, and me taking notes off of your interpretation and then your suggestions based on it... this idea of being present is something I personally struggle with immensely. I've tried mindfulness, meditation. I still try to do that once in a while, although I found it is not the best form of bringing me to the present. For me, that happens to be writing. Writing helps me center. But if I'm not writing, really, if I'm not creating, I really, really struggle with being present.
--:-- I'd love to know—this doesn't have to do with the book or whatever—how do you struggle with it? What is your relationship with acting and thinking in the present moment?
--:-- John Jantsch: Yeah, I think everybody does. And I think particularly entrepreneurs do. My wife and I were talking about something—I had a meeting canceled early this morning. She was like, "Oh, did that open up your schedule?" I was like, "No, I got more stuff to plug in there." It just meant I moved something into there. It's really easy to get into that habit.
--:-- I definitely have a morning routine that I try to stick with that helps me get started. But throughout the day, I try to take breaks that are just about that. For me, I spend about half my time in the mountains in Colorado now. After this podcast, I'm going to go walk in the woods for a minute. I try to do that three or four times a day when I can. First off, it makes me more creative. It not only brings me back, I think it just kind of rejuvenates. It's almost like you build up all this sludge all day long. If you don't clean it out occasionally, by three o'clock you're not sure what you've got left.
--:-- Another thing, and I'm not great at this, but at least it helps me from getting overwhelmed: even though I will have appointments and things during the day, I have two or three things that are the most important things. I may have six other things on my to-do list, but I'm not going to really knock anything else out just because it's easy. I'm going to focus on the hard things. A lot of times the hard things are the highest payoff things.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: It's almost like allowing yourself to feel a sense of accomplishment for the things you did get done instead of giving yourself a hard time for the things you didn't get done. You could pound through a whole day, and at the end of the day I'm like, "Oh, and I didn't do this thing." Instead of getting there and going, "Wait a minute, I just crushed eight hours worth of work. Why am I not celebrating that? Why am I giving myself flack for the couple things I may not have gotten to?"
--:-- John Jantsch: Well, I tell you, if we had a little recorder recording what we did throughout our day, probably about 20% of our time at the office do we actually accomplish anything that means anything.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I have a getaway place. I'm actually recording this podcast from there. It's a co-working space here in Troy, New York. Our office is in Colonie, which is across town. The office is great and I need to be around my people and we work incredibly well together. There's 10 of us in a nice tight spot. But I also have shared with them that I have to get away. I have to have that time where there's no one else around. This is my room. No one's busting through that door. I can just do this. I can do other work. I have a whiteboard right over here that you can't see.
--:-- It's funny how, bringing this back to the idea of being self-reliant and being an entrepreneur, it's about giving yourself permission to do those kinds of things. To walk in the woods four times a day. Some people will be like, "Oh, John, you're not hustling or grinding or hashtag hustle life. That's wasted time." But really, you've made the decision and given yourself permission. You're comfortable with it and okay to say, "Look, those four breaks make me better." That feels like a big part of this work.
--:-- John Jantsch: Yeah. And I would argue that the return on investment is so great that I'm actually giving myself time back by doing that. That's how I look at it.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That's tremendous. I want to be respectful of your time, and I also want people to buy this book. Because especially as the idea that we need to be everywhere and have everything turned on—I know there's a lot of counter arguments to that, but it doesn't seem like everyone's listening. This feels like the type of work where I can have that daily reminder: "Hey, maybe it is a good idea that I turn notifications off for a while, or maybe it is okay for me to drive home real quick and walk my dog in the middle of the day and take that time." This feels really important.
--:-- I want people to go pick up the book. If you were going to leave with just one final idea around self-reliance and how it applies to business today—it doesn't have to be the most important idea, just one idea we haven't touched on—what would that be?
--:-- John Jantsch: Well, I think the importance of this format—and I'm not saying you have to get this book—but the importance of this is that self-reliance in some ways is a habit as much as anything else. To form a habit, you have to practice, you have to stay with it, you have to give yourself the space to make it a daily practice. It's not just about becoming self-reliant. One of the themes in the book is that the second we have all the answers, the second we know everything, we're going to stop growing.
--:-- If you're taking this work and working on yourself every single day, you're going to benefit the people around you. Your closest relationships are going to benefit. If you serve clients, they're going to benefit from this work that you're doing on yourself every day.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I love that you picked that out. The theme of this podcast in whole, the overarching theme, is finding everyday peak performance. Just those little things in the journey that help you get one percent better to the goal that is unobtainable. I couldn't agree with you more. Big recommendation of this show has been *Atomic Habits*, and that fits right in there. Finding habits that help us get to where we want to be is exactly the way to think about it.
--:-- It almost feels like, in particular with something like this, "Am I self-reliant?" I have no idea. But I do know that I can work to becoming more self-reliant, and I can make a habit out of efforting towards that place. It's all relative and subjective anyways. I love the format. When I was introduced to what you were doing and I saw that it was a daily practice, I also love the time. Sometimes daily practice books are a 10 or 15 minute read, and that feels a little overwhelming to me. But that three to five minute range feels very achievable. I can pick it up, bam, get that in for the day, go jump in the shower, think a little bit about that idea, and then try to put it into practice.
--:-- Hey, John, I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your ideas with us. Where can people learn more about this particular work and just you in general?
--:-- John Jantsch: The book, if you want to find everything about the book, it's selfreliantentrepreneur.com. "Reliant" and "entrepreneur" are hard words for a lot of people to spell, but if you get close, you'll probably find it. And then you can be led to it by many of the pages at ducttapemarketing.com. That's D-U-C-T-T-A-P-E marketing.com.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Tremendous. If you find it on RyanHanley.com, I'll have all the links there as well. But you don't have to go to mine. Go directly to John's site. Man, I appreciate it. I'm glad we were able to connect again. It's been a few years, but I've been following along with what you're doing. This feels like a very natural evolution of your own work. I love it, man. Thanks for coming on and sharing it with us. Congrats to you.
--:-- John Jantsch: Appreciate it. You'll be good. Thank you.
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