RHS 029 - Everything You Never Wanted But Need to Know About Jason Cass

Ryan Hanley: My friends, my friends, welcome back to the show. This is a very special episode. I interview someone who I believe is an underappreciated asset to our space. I feel like for too long he has been relegated to the dark underbelly, the shadows of our industry. No, that's not true. My man Jason Cass is on the show today and what I do feel like, I do believe that he is underappreciated for the contributions that he makes, certainly from an institutional perspective.

Ryan Hanley: That being said, Jason has a loud voice. He has big opinions. He shares them often. He shares them all over our industry, up and down, inside and out. And what I've learned from Cass is really just that you got to be exactly who you are. And if you do that through the filter of positivity and abundance and empathy that there's absolutely nothing you can't achieve. And the reason I had him on the show was because I feel like while he interviews so many people and he does talk about his life, he doesn't, he's never told the whole story up until this point at least. And that's why today's episode is everything you've never wanted to know but need to about Jason Kass.

Ryan Hanley: Today's episode of the show and this interview with Kass is brought to you by our friends, our supporters, the people making this show possible because this show costs money. It's our friends at Tarmica. Tarmica is the premier, the premier commercial insurance comparative rating platform. It's going to take your game to the next level. Everyone's talking about small commercial, small commercial, small commercial. Well, small, midsize, micro commercial, whatever you're looking at. If you're looking to rate that business in one place with single point entry, get quotes back so you can deliver them faster to your prospects so that they can get on with their life while still providing with a great coverage that makes you an independent agent. Tarmica is the tool to get that done. And it's what I'm building my commercial storefront on. It's what I'm going to do my commercial rating on at Rogue Risk. Tarmica, T-A-R-M-I-K-A.com. Tarmica, T-A-R-M-I-K-A.com for your commercial lines rating. Go check it out today. Get a demo. And if you like it, use it. If you don't, then that's cool too. But what I can speak to for Tarmica is that it's built by people who care about independent agents. And that matters to me. That matters to me. I like to do business with people that I like to do business with. And I like Tarmica. So go check it out. T-A-R-M-I-K-A dot com. And now on to Jason Kass.

Jason Cass: Yeah, the YouTube version gets easily like over time, like another hundred or so views. And people seem to watch it. It's crazy.

Ryan Hanley: Well, and I think I would love to know the demographics there because I think it has to do with people who are watching at work, right? Or during the time they're working. I think it's cool to be able to put you and I on to see our visuals. The problem I think there is that a lot of people use podcasting when they're working out, swimming, in traffic. But I think it's good to have both mediums.

Jason Cass: I'm building my studio right now downstairs in my basement. Charles Speck actually created a little one in the back of his house, a little studio. It's a little bitty and he's got the setup of how he does his podcasting and all of his video. I mean it's all in this little bitty thing but he did it like perfect, so I'm gonna copy him.

Ryan Hanley: You don't need a lot, there's no doubt about it. I mean this is gonna be my office for the most part and I got the podcast mic that I just pull off to the side. It's not even in my purview. I got the camera up there.

Jason Cass: And Lee, do you remember, like you've heard the advice and you may have thought of that too. You tell young people like stay in your home as much as possible. Don't move out. Like stay when you're a kid, right? You're 20, 21. The kid's like, I'm going to leave. And we're like, as older now, we're like, no, stay as long as you can. Save your money. That's how I feel about being in the office at home. I wish I would have stayed at home when I did my thing. I love having locations, don't get me wrong, but dude, no one walks in that door. Paying all these expenses to have computers. Now I do admit, I think some of my staff, they need it. Travis needs it for his investments and stuff, but anyways.

Ryan Hanley: No, I'm with you, dude. That's why my office is going to be co-working space. There's a co-working space five minutes from here called the Troy Innovation Garage. I've worked out of there for six years since the very early days of the Choice Agency Nation. A buddy of mine owns it. Super professional conference rooms, Wi-Fi, the whole coffee. You walk in, you're like, wow, this is a cool place. It's an 1800s old horse buggy garage that got turned into a car repair garage that then fell into disrepair. He buys the building, completely renovates it. It's got all the exposed brick. It's a really nice spot. A hundred bucks a month. I can go there five or six times a month. So most of the time I'll work out of here. Anybody that absolutely wants to meet me in person or I have a meeting with a carrier or whatever, I'll just bomb down there and meet them there in a nice spot. So that's how I'm going to keep my rent a hundred bucks a month.

Jason Cass: I agree. I agree. That's what I'm saying, especially with what you're getting ready to do.

Ryan Hanley: So, okay. So let's get into this. The purpose of this podcast is not to talk about me or to even really be like, I want it to be conversational, obviously, but this isn't about like, I want this to be about Cass. I want to tell Cass's story. I've had you on the podcast before, back in the early Agency Nation days, but I think it's time for a re-rack. Like you've come a long way.

Jason Cass: Did you say re-rack? Change that. That's good. I like re-rack.

Ryan Hanley: And I just think it's time. I think people listen to you all the time. They see you, they hear you at gigs. You're always bombing around. You get your fingers on a lot of different stuff. I think it's easy to forget where you came from. And I would like to use this podcast as an opportunity to put your story into context as to where you are today.

[Technical discussion about microphone quality]

Ryan Hanley: Which one sounds better? This one there, me speaking now, I think is on my headset. Or now it's coming through my webcam. This one. This webcam? Okay, cool. Take that off. Perfect. Cool. Perfect. All right. So, hold on, now I got to change my mic. So, oh yeah, because where it's coming out of. Now, okay, there you go. Talk? Yeah. All right. Perfect. Perfect. All right. So, dude. Let me put my phones on Do Not Disturb.

Jason Cass: The most difficult podcast guest ever.

Ryan Hanley: I know, dude. Well, you threw a video into it. Put yours on Do Not Disturb, please. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Let's rock and roll.

Ryan Hanley: All right. So, dude, start me back at the beginning of your insurance journey because I think a lot of people know you today. They know your agency. They know what they see with this backdrop. This is the Cass Insurance Experience that they're used to. But this is so far from where you were when I met you. And I know that you've come even farther. You had come a long way to that point. So take us back to the beginning. How'd you get into the industry? What did that look like? What were you doing? Just take us all the way back.

Jason Cass: Man, even back the last time, a couple times we've done this, I don't know if we've gone that far back. So I'm not going to go too far back. Actually, I'm going to go way far back, but I'll be quick the farther back I am. Basically, I'm one of those dudes that didn't go to college. You're a mathematician. I get it, Hanley. Me, I didn't go to college. I started working for my dad. I did lay tile. I've been laying tile and flooring since I've been eight, nine years old. Started doing that, realized that my dad had had four back surgeries at the age of 41. I didn't want to be that. I'm 41 right now.

Jason Cass: And so I decided that one day I was listening on the radio, coming back from a job with my dad, and they were going to install windows. And you can get like $35 a window, and the average house has like 12 windows. If you know me, I'm the kind of guy that goes and researches that stuff. And boom, I thought this would be great. I go to sell the windows. I go to get the interview. The production manager's not there. The sales guy comes out, says, you're too nice to be here for installation. He interviews me real quick, says, hey, listen, if you don't work out in a month, I'll put you back over to production side. Boom, I started out. I was with like 27, 28 agents in week one. I was the number one salesperson. And for the first four months, I was.

Jason Cass: And I remember coming home and telling my wife one day. I'll never forget. It was on 1115 East 2nd Street in Central Illinois. She was at the back door. I told her to meet me. This was actually before we had cell phones. And I remember at the back door, I just gave her this check that I had gotten. And I just told her, I said, you know, Andrea, and keep in mind, she's pregnant, right? With my little one. We're 20, 21 years old. She's 20, I'm 21. And I said, I think I found something I'm really good at. Like, I'm really good at this thing. I can do this. And it was like a 10,000 pound weight had lifted off me.

Jason Cass: Fast forward, her father-in-law, my father-in-law, her father, I guess that would be the same person, Jason. He was an expert and actually retired as a life insurance agent. Ever since I'd been dating Andrea since I was 17, he had been telling me, man, you need to be in insurance. You need to be in insurance. I'm like, I'm never going to be in insurance. 9-11 happened. I went and got my insurance license because what I was selling, no one was buying windows. No one was buying anything. Went and got my life and health license, passed the exam. Went and met Mike Beard. Mike Beard with Brooke Insurance, my number one mentor to this day. I've done many podcasts about him. He said to me, if you go sell life and health, you'll be dead in the water. You don't know anything. Sell P&C for me. He says to answer the phone and do my quoting. And when you're ready, I'll give you an office in the back. And I said, how much are you going to pay me per hour? He said $8 an hour. I jumped up. I was like, I'll take it.

Jason Cass: And he laughs to this day because he probably went up to 12. But he hired me on Christmas Eve. I had a two-year-old, and I had zero presents under the tree. That's a true story. And if you're a loyal listener listening to this and watching this, you know that to be true. And my life changed. In six months, I was like, dude, I'm ready to go. I started on my own. Then my second agency in 2005 found me. And I went to Mike Beard. It was one of the toughest things I ever had to do. But I learned a lot of this as a lesson as an agency owner. I said to him, I said, hey, I'm going to go over to this new agency. It's 35 miles for me to drive one way to your place, Mike. You know that. And I said, and they're literally four blocks from my house. I had went to this agency, and they wouldn't even talk to me because I didn't have any experience back in 2001, 2002.

Jason Cass: And Mike Beard says something to me. He says, Jason, you're in my office acting like you're concerned about what I'm going to think about this. He said, this has nothing to do with me or my business. This has to do with you doing what's best for you and your family. He says, and here's what I'm going to tell you. You are allowed to take your book of business. I'm not going to hold it from you. I ask this in return that you do not take one policy or one client ever from me. I said, okay. To this day, I've walked in five, 10, 15, I don't know how many ever shops that Mike Beard was their agent of record and I walked out of those. I stayed true to that. We've got a great relationship to this day.

Jason Cass: The agency I went to was good, taught me well. Lorna Monroe, the person who taught me insurance, but the agency owner, hope he's watching, completely lied to me. Told me that he was going to give me a bunch of book of business from some other agents. He never did. He took all the good, gave me the crap. Probably some agents out there that this has happened to. I'm not probably unique in this situation. And in 2010, when he didn't make his promises, I started my own agency out of the basement of my home. It was the scariest time I'd ever had. I started my third book from scratch. Now keep in mind, I was on a non-compete, so I couldn't do it. The basement of my home, 2,500 square foot home, living on a golf course, two full payments. My son's going to college in four years. And I was going to start over. My wife literally was about to go crazy because we had done it again.

Jason Cass: And then I met this guy named Ryan Hanley and we had something in common and we thought this industry was going to change. And one of the things that to back up real quick that people don't know is I've been very heavily in the Big I Association. In 2003, Mike Beard said to me, he said, Jason, when he hired me, he said, Jason, you're going to start going to these conferences and I want you to go to this young agent. You need to learn from these kids. These kids are the future. Very first meeting I went there, I told him, how do I get on this committee? I'm going to run this thing. It was so awesome. Boom. The next year I was installed as chairman for the Big I. We were young agent of the year, three years in a row, a committee of the year. If you don't know if you're in the Big I, that is a big deal. Then I was asked to be on the national in 2010 to 2013. I chaired it my last two years. And that's where I get a lot of my inspiration.

Jason Cass: See, if you've noticed and you've listened to this, Hanley, and your people listen to this. I talk now about a crux, a crossroads, a fine time of me learning the industry, learning the insides and outs, and then meeting another guy who was in New York, you, and seeing it from a different view, from the big city type. I know you say you're not big city, but I live in a town of 10,000 people compared to what, 150,000, 90,000, something like that, Albany. It's a lot bigger.

Ryan Hanley: It's not the big city, but yes, it's bigger than Centralia.

Jason Cass: Right now, all the people who live in big cities agree with you. The small cities agree with me and there's more small cities.

Ryan Hanley: So I went, okay. So, but actually there's more population than big cities. Okay. You went. So anyways, why that's important to know is that's when I really discovered. And this is important to know. I want everybody to know this because my loyal listeners know this, by the way, for all you new people that that's what I call my followers are loyal listeners. I decided that as I would travel around from the Big I, people would ask me and give me ideas and I would say to them like, hey, why are you giving me this idea? They would say because I have this idea. And a lot of these people are the Nicholas Ayers, right? The young people, the Preston Schmidleys. All these people who'd be like, hey, I have this idea, how about that? And I would listen. And then they would say, you have the microphone, right? You're on stage. You ought to need to tell people. I'm thinking like, well, who am I?

Jason Cass: Well, I decided to start this podcast and I started it March 21st, 2013. And the reason why I started it, it was called Agents Influence. It's giving a voice to those who have no voice in the industry because of what people were telling me. It's a real cool story, Hanley. A lot of people don't know this. I was sitting around trying to think of what I was going to call it. And I looked up the definition of agent. And agent actually has three or four definitions. And the third definition is it's a chemical reaction for change. And I thought to myself, wow, that's cool. That's not what I was thinking agent would be.

Jason Cass: And then one night I was watching Piers Morgan and Rick Warren was on there from Saddleback Church. Very fascinated with faith, very spiritual guy. And I was listening and Piers said to him, this is a great little nugget for everybody. Piers said to him, with your large church and how big you are, why are you not on TV maximizing it like these other people have? And he says, you know what, that's a good question. And I have a good answer. He says, you know, I've been traveling in Africa a lot. And as I've been traveling in Africa, I notice I go to these villages that are just poor. No one's there, no white people, nothing. It's just poor. It's what you see on TV, flies on these people. And he says, and I noticed when I go there, the next day the cameras show up. And the next day, medicine shows up. And the next day, food and water shows up. And I go to the next poor village and the next day the cameras show up. And so I started to realize, he said, and he read in Isaiah, this verse that I don't even know. But he said in there, the definition of influence, this is what he said to me, is giving a voice to those who have no voice. And I thought, boom, Agents Influence. That's what it is. And that's when we started that.

Jason Cass: I wrote the book 20 in 2015 after a Chuck Blondino podcast of "Customer Service is Just Foreplay: The Modern Customer Experience." They separate you. I did that because I had a vision. I met a lady who tried to buy insurance from me. Long story. We go into that later maybe, or we don't have to.

Jason Cass: And then in 2018, and keep in mind, everybody, in 2013, 2012, actually, Ryan Hanley and I started a place called GROW, Generating Revenue Online Workshops. I was on Perrine Street, south of Centralia. I remember weird things like this. When Hanley called me, He says, I've got the name for our business, Cass. I said, what is it? He said, GROW, Generating Revenue Online Workshops. Remember that, Hanley? Hanley and I thought we were going to go around America and do all these workshops. I was pacing my office at the Murray Group while I called you doing that. And then, dude, we went and actually ran a budget on it. We were like, no one's going to give us this money to do this.

Ryan Hanley: But anyway, so then that GROW program was rebranded into Agency Intelligence because why I did that is very simple. GROW was about a kind of a marketing company and generating revenue online with workshops. But Agents Influence kind of led me a different way. I kind of felt as if I wanted to be the voice and I wanted to be the platform because my buddy Ryan Hanley left and went to Agency Nation and served at a different place in the industry. I don't want to say a higher level, but more of a company corporate level. Do you remember the conversation we had about that?

Jason Cass: I remember calling you the first week of August and saying, dude, I've got this offer to go work for TrustedChoice.com. And you had had some uncomfortableness, some unpleasantness with the association at that point. And you gave me your feedback on, and I knew the story, but we had talked a little bit about that. And basically what, and this is, most people probably don't even know, this is probably the first time we've ever said this in public, but we agreed at that time to break up GROW, and for you to attack the industry from the outside and that I would take this message from the inside and play the game and the politics and we would try to help the industry from both sides, knowing that one of us had to be on the inside to be part of it, right? Because if you're not in there, you don't know what's going on.

Ryan Hanley: 1,000%. And not in a serious way, right? You weren't attacking the industry. When I say attack, I mean helping raise agents up, not like attack, attack. We obviously love the industry. I'm going to probably be joining the Big I today as a member of the guy in New York. So the idea wasn't, when I say attack, I don't mean in a negative context. I mean like helping agents. And we basically said like for us to do what the vision of what GROW was, one of us has to be on the outside and one of us has to be on the inside. And when you went Agents Influence and I went Agency Nation, it was like a perfect. Most people don't realize that during that time, even though like I wasn't interviewing you as much and you weren't as me, we still were working the same game, talking all the time. And I mean, that was it was like, I won't say it was like, it wasn't like we wrote down a plan, but we were certainly in communication and trying to help raise the industry. Like that was tactful. That was tactical. Like we talked about that.

Jason Cass: And I noticed there was two different types of people as I was going, and that's where Agency Nation and Agency Intelligence came from. When I transformed it into GROW and a little story that Ryan didn't even know, but I told him the other day was, if you go to my LinkedIn, you'll see that I'm the co-founder of Agency Intelligence. I have people reach out to me and say, why does it say co-founder? Who's the other owner? Or who's the other founder? And I will say the co-founder is Ryan Hanley because Agency Intelligence is nothing more than the GROW program that was rebranded.

Ryan Hanley: It's very sweet of you.

Jason Cass: But why I did this though is I realized I had two different types of guests. I'd have those from inside or outside the industry, kind of like some of the people. When I say outside the industry, I didn't mean that. Outside the agency. And then I would have agency personnel in, and I was getting different types of listeners to those. And I thought, okay, these need to be two podcasts. So I created Agency Intelligence, where we give you real agents inside real agencies and not the artificial that they try to make you believe. I believe in that wholeheartedly.

Jason Cass: Let's back up real quick, though, and let's just start talking about this. Because now here I am. I have a three location agency to kind of finish this off. I have a three location agency in Edwardsville, Centralia, Illinois, Mount Vernon, Illinois. My co-partner, Travis, 50-50 owner. We are a very scaled down. We have a very high revenue per employee. People say, man, three locations, da, da, da, da. I think we have seven people. We do a lot of work through Marblebox and through VAs. And that's kind of what I do. And I just found out, just found out yesterday that we will be setting up to go live with Neon in March. The Insurance Alliance is one of the first three on there, which I'm happy as hell about that. And I think we will be live around May. So that's another thing, but that's a big thing for our agency.

Jason Cass: Also, one other shout out, something else I did, which I think has been the pride of my life, to be honest with you, is I created a commercial line sales and prospecting course. That took me eight months, me and Sarah Nicholas, who is my right-hand woman at Agency Intelligence. We created this and then in cooperation, I had already had this plan to go to Total CSR and they basically took it and put technology around this awesome program and now it is live and thousands of agents across America. I get emailed all the time of people saying, man, dude, you changed my game and the way that I'm thinking about commercial lines. That to me has been huge because I think I've got a lot of help right now, Hanley, with people trying to press the message of moving the agency forward. You, Josh Berg, Bradley Flowers, Scott Howell, Ryan Deans, all these podcasters are pushing it. I think we're really lacking in the sales area. I think in the agency operations area, there's a lot of myths, a lot of truths that are not true anymore. I think there's a lot in the sales area that's the same way of trying to teach agents the old way of doing it. And there's new systems of ways you use data to make it better. So that's who I am, man. That is completely the whole story.

Ryan Hanley: That's not completely who you are. There's one piece that you left out that is probably the piece of, well, there's two things about you that I'm envious of. One is how analytical you are. I am, despite being a math major, in all honesty I basically cheated my way through that because there was a really good looking chick who my buddy dated who was really good at math and I just was able to coattail along there.

Jason Cass: Is that the first time that's kind of known? I mean, is your professor listening to this going, well, let's go check.

Ryan Hanley: I probably don't deserve that degree. But the other piece, you just tend to, like you said before, like you found out it's 35 bucks a window. You went and averaged how many average windows. My brain doesn't always work like that analytical. At least I have to put my brain in that space. That is not natural for me. Natural for me is more story, creativity, that kind of stuff, which is great. But as I'm finding, or as I've become an executive in different companies and now running my own company, I've had to work very hard bringing the analytics. And so I'm very envious of how analytical your brain is and how you attack those problems.

Ryan Hanley: The second thing, and this is the more important one, in my opinion, and this is a big piece of who you are that I feel like you left out. You said to me the other day, Hanley, my goal is to move to Florida and build churches in Cuba. That to me is the piece of you that I am the most envious of. And when I say envious, it's not like I'm sitting here like, I mean, I think it's freaking amazing. I think the fact that you have, and I've talked a little bit about this on my show and in the newsletter, I've never had like a thing. Like I want this. My brother-in-law, Eric, he wants a boat. And that's his thing. And for him, it's not just about having a boat. It's the lifestyle and being able to relax. And he has this thing and that's his goal. Like he wants to be able to take his kids out on it and teach them how to use it. And you have building churches, building schools or churches?

Jason Cass: Churches.

Ryan Hanley: Churches in Cuba. And when I heard you say that, I was like, that mission on so many levels provides a day-to-day, hour-to-hour, action-by-action directive in your life. I'm envious of you having that. I think it's a huge part of who you are because it speaks to both how giving you are and how driven you are. And I want you to talk about that.

Jason Cass: Well, yeah, big thing in my life. Big thing in my life. I think it's easy in social media to see people's highlight reel. And I talked about this with Chris Green on a thing. But our highlight reels are just that. They're highlights, right? Think of SportsCenter. It's just highlights. But there's a game in between those highlights, right? You sit there and see Steph Curry just hitting all those threes. And at the end, they're like, yeah, he was six for 18. You're like, whoa, they didn't show me a lot where he missed, right? That's how life is. And we see these highlight reels on social media of people's lives, but there's a life in between that. And in 2016, 2017, I was making some serious changes in my life. And my pastor said to me, he said, hey, we're going to start doing some mission work in Cuba. Would you like to go?

Jason Cass: And I said, yeah, let's go. And it was in the middle of July, and I went down there, and I had an experience. It was a unique experience, something I had never experienced in my entire life at the church. I had a unique experience at the church in the midst of prayer and a lot of different things. It scared me so bad I ran out of the church and ran down the street and just literally kept running.

Jason Cass: I talked to my pastor about it. He said, "Jason, you need to lean into that." The next couple days I did. What I found out was that I could see my life from as far back as where it was and as far forward as it was going to go. I realized that everything that had been done in my life was setting me up for my forties and beyond.

Jason Cass: The people I met there are unbelievable. The relationships, how great they are, how grateful they are. Just a wonderful type of people. They want to do better. There are so many lies about Cuba that come from both sides. Cuba lies about us, us lies about them. I'm not blaming anybody. That's another story. But it's just not true. Bradley Flowers knows this. He goes there a lot now. Other people do too. I feel so good about that. All these people go, and I send them to all my people down there, and they all take care of them, and they get that American money, which is great.

Jason Cass: After my third time there, I finally realized, this is what I want to do. I can buy a house there. In Cuba, you can't build any churches. All the churches that are there are the only churches that are allowed. The government does not allow them, but they allow them to be put inside of houses. So you can put like 25, 30 people inside there. You can buy these houses or bigger type buildings, as long as it's residential, and you can clear out the inside and put this church in. It's not that expensive. You can buy the whole building for $15,000, and for $5,000 to $10,000, you can put all the stuff in there. I thought, wow, we could really make a change.

Jason Cass: I joke a lot with my loyal listeners, besides my spiritual connection and my friendships that I have there, it's on a Caribbean island. I mean, it's beautiful. To pick someplace, that's it. The family and relationships I have there are huge. I spend thousands of dollars. I'm not bragging, I'm just being truthful. I went three times in 2019. I go at least two times every year. This time, I'll probably go four. What we're doing in July is replacing all of the plumbing inside of the church and all of the house churches. The reason I go so much is because I can only take two suitcases on my religious visa, and I can pile them full of stuff. We have to take people in suitcases to get things over there. I went around all of the churches, recorded things, gave it to a plumber, and they mapped out all the pieces that are needed. We're taking them over there.

Jason Cass: That's what I want to do, man. I'm going to live in Pensacola, Florida. I'm going to continue on the podcast. Right now I have a unique way of selling workers comp to commercial lines people. What I'm going to do when I retire, probably in five to six years, no joke about that, is I am going to flip it. I'm going to go work for companies as their consultant to deal with the insurance agents. I think the consultants would be good for these companies. It's a big long reason, but I know of other agents that have done this and been very successful. If I do two or three of those businesses a month, you can make like 10 grand. So it's real simple. That's what I want to do. Then about four months of my life, I will live in Cuba because that's all my visa allows. The rest of it, I will be in Florida and changing this industry. Yes, I appreciate you bringing that up, man. Cuba is a big part of who I am.

Ryan Hanley: It is. Well, I think it's important to tell that part of your story. So, okay. I want to back up into a bunch of stuff that you said. I've had the pleasure of meeting Mike Beard as well. Great guy. Very fun guy to hang out with. But also very smart. Gets the whole thing. I want to talk a little bit about now that you're a dad to older kids. You have team staff. You have officially made the transition in many regards from apprentice to mentor. I believe in constantly being both an apprentice and a mentor. I think at all times we should be both. We should find people to pass on what we have to while finding others to receive information from in a very humble way. I think that's an important way to live. Talk to me about that in your life. How has that transition been for you? Where, if you could have done it different ways in different places, maybe being a slightly better apprentice or a more meaningful mentor, talk to me about how that relationship has worked in your life and some of the challenges and successes you've had.

Jason Cass: I think it's why I enjoy it. What's so funny is Mike Beard, I tell him this, he might talk about this a lot. He never went to school on how to be a mentor. He just did what he thought he was supposed to do. And it was really great because he did it perfectly. They say the reason agents fail is because they don't get enough time from those who they needed the time from to become successful. It's what all sales trainers recognize. And he recognized that without being a sales trainer. Literally, I would be answering the phone, doing his personalized quotes, and he'd say, "Jason, we have an appointment up at the stationery store at 11 o'clock. We're going to go quote their insurance." And he would take me with him. He told me one day, "Don't say a damn word. Sit in the back of the room. Fill this out. Take notes." I would just sit there and listen to him question. I would walk around when he would do the inspection. He really trained me from the ground up. He literally mandated I had to be in Rotary.

Jason Cass: It's something I talk about with my current staff. I want them. Joe, he's new here. I told him he needs to get involved in some kind of social service, non-for-profit in the city to represent because he likes to do that stuff. These are things Beard had taught me. These are things I'm using, a bunch of old school tactics. Sean, my awesome producer over here, he doesn't get enough of my time. Yet I try to give him all the time that I can. We have to split those duties between Travis and us.

Jason Cass: I have to say that I believe mentorship is something that lacks big time. I think it's the reason why sometimes these forums that we have are so huge, because people can't get that mentorship somewhere else. The reason why, if you're listening to this, the forums aren't good enough is because there are people in there who are talking smack that really don't have the accomplishments they're saying they do. You've got people who are having conversations about whether they should have Flag Day off or not. When you have time to learn from a mentor, you need to be focused in on that. You need to be understood. You need to be able to be held accountable for those types of things. Sometimes those forums don't allow you to do that. I encourage mentorship.

Jason Cass: I'll say it real quick, Hanley. I believe in five truths of the insurance industry. Never change. Flexible schedule. Financial freedom. Community leader or influencer. Number four is empire builder. And number five, mentorship. Why I love this industry is I want everybody in the world, young or old, to have the opportunity to know this great industry. I don't know of many other professions where we really sit around as professionals and look at each other and say, "Is this not the greatest damn industry ever?" We keep getting paid and we're helping people that don't know anything and they don't care to know about it. They just trust us. If you're a good human being, this is your industry. I want everybody to experience that.

Jason Cass: I wrote an article on insuranceagencyintelligence.com about the three little lies that we tell ourselves that prevent us from finding the five big insurance truths. That's what my podcast is about. I want you to think. I want you to stop doing what everybody's telling you to do or what the veteran is telling you to do. Think about, is that working in your agency? Talk to other people who are successful. Do you do this? I think that's what data is going to change in our businesses so much, Hanley. My boy Wesley Anderson says it all the time. He says, "Cass, the difference between me as an agency owner and everybody else is they make decisions based on the way they feel or think. I make decisions based on what the data says." That is powerful when you start thinking about that because you can make better decisions. I think that's going to help us uncover some of these lies to say, "No, let's put this up to the challenge. Does this really work?" I think we'll find it doesn't.

Ryan Hanley: I was thinking about this the other day. I like to take time and examine my weaknesses, the places where I feel I am weak. One of those places is ego. I consider myself a hard worker. I do consider myself as someone who thinks about things deeply. And I fall into a trap of believing my own bullshit. This has been a process. I figured this out a couple of weeks ago. I've been working on this for a while, but I'd say really since Agency Nation fell apart. I've said this before. There were things I could have done differently in that scenario. Though I don't take full responsibility for it, I take full responsibility for my role in it. In that, I think too often I do what you just said. I think to myself, "Here's what I believe to be right."

Ryan Hanley: As I've gone these last two and a half, three years and started doing exactly what you just said, learning from guys like you, from Wes, from Nick, everyone has an ego. But what I've seen in this next generation that I believe we're part of, the 35 to 45, 50 year olds who are really, this next kind of Gen X generation that I'm on the very tail end or beginning of, because I'm a couple years younger than you are. There is a humility to this generation. The way that we share, the way that, like Wes said, looking at data, not letting your own thoughts get in the way or your own belief structure get in the way, allowing the business to show you which direction is the right path. That is a defining difference. I believe that if you took a broad stroke of the generation before us and this generation that's coming up, I think that is the defining difference. This generation is willing to say, "I don't know the answer. I'm going to let the data and the business show me what path to take. And I'm going to take that path." That's a really hard thing to do.

Jason Cass: Well, what do they say? Necessity breeds invention. There's no book for me to run my agency. When I started my agency, I just started doing what I thought would be best. It worked. When I would tell other people, they'd be like, "Dude, you can't do it that way, bro. That doesn't work." Then I'd be like, "Oh crap." Then I would try it their way and I'd go, "No, my way was much better." Everybody in the industry is thinking this way, but I'm doing it this way. I think we've gone through this through all parameters of society. It seems like stuff that used to work this way is now working that way. It's really weird.

Jason Cass: If you want to parent your kids correctly, we can't yell at them anymore. We can't tell them not to do something because they're going to give us the attention of what attention we give them. Instead of telling them something, we have to redirect them. That's a totally different way of parenting than the way my parents did. I will say sometimes a good epic explosion will shock them back into reality.

Ryan Hanley: Epic explosion, yeah.

Jason Cass: I happened to be reading a book about this yesterday. I was like, there's yet another one of those things that goes this way but goes that way. I think that's very hard. I think honestly, we're part of the exennial group. I was talking with Sean Michael Walker. He is very deliberate that he's going to tell you all three names every time he says his name, which I think is very unique. He does some great stuff. I've been watching his videos. I said to him, I can't even tell, but I knew immediately he was between the age of probably 37 and 43. Sure enough, he's 40 years old. There's just this wild thing about these people. I wanted to encourage those who are watching this and you're a veteran agent and you're maybe wanting to sell or getting ready to sell and you need someone to help get your agency in order, find someone who's 37 to 43. They have a really good way of looking back and looking forward and meshing that together.

Ryan Hanley: Necessity is the mother of invention. There. Thank you very much.

Jason Cass: When you need something, dude, and you don't have it, you're just like, "I got to do what I got to do." I think now with the humility, the different way of looking at business, the way of looking at how we're going to treat our customers. I couldn't get it through this guy's head last week that I was speaking at. He said, "Number one, I can't believe you're up here telling all your secrets." I'm sorry, I'm not keeping any secret. I'm in Texas. You're in Texas. I'm in Illinois, first of all. Big difference. He couldn't understand why I was telling these different types of things. To me, it just seems like that's my job. Haven't we always done that?

Ryan Hanley: Yes. You and I have. That's what brought us together. Most people remember 10 years ago, people thought we were crazy for sharing the things that we were sharing. They thought we were crazy for sharing it. We've been doing it for a decade now.

Jason Cass: Okay, so this is good, Hanley. Let's discuss this. This is important. This goes to the basis of why an insurance agent is not considered a professional. I'm writing a thing on this right now. We're not considered professionals because we don't act like professionals. One of the ways we don't do it is exactly what you're talking about. Doctors, they share information. They find out something that works for a patient, they want to share it. Lawyers, they find out a piece of law that's going to work, they share it. Every profession shares except for insurance agents.

Jason Cass: Another way an insurance agent isn't treated as a professional is because they don't act like professionals. This will be part of the great separator. Someone walks in the door, we're a commercial lines agency, which we are, and they say, "Yeah, I have some different type of policy." I don't know exactly what type of policy they could have, but it's not what we do. What I need to do is say, "Hey, I know Jim down the road. He specializes in this. He's actually the one that you need to help." When you're true niche, that's what you need to do. Professionals, when you go to a general specialist and you say, "My foot hurts," he doesn't say, "Well, heck, let me help you with it. First, I got to go help the guy next over because he's got heart problems." No, he says go to a podiatrist. He tells the person with heart problems to go to a cardiologist. They refer that stuff out. The basic stuff, let's say you're farting a lot or something, you got some gas going on, yeah, they can fix that. It's a very basic thing. We're not treated like professionals because we don't act like professionals. We try to write everything that comes through the door. That's not the way professionals act.

Ryan Hanley: I completely agree. On the farting thing, Google lectin-free diet. L-E-C-T-I-N. Lectin-free diet. You'll stop farting as much.

Jason Cass: Spell it again?

Ryan Hanley: L-E-C-T-I-N. It's the next level of the anti-inflammatory diet. It's what I do now. I lost five pounds of inflammation, not actual fat or anything, just my intestines, my gut, everything just de-inflaming. I don't know if that's a word.

Jason Cass: Really? Wow.

Ryan Hanley: Just from eating lectins. Basically, it's a subset of the anti-inflammatory diet. What I like about it is it adds back in meats. A traditional anti-inflammatory diet will cut a lot of meat out. The lectin-free diet adds things like grass-fed beef and stuff like that back in. Again, it has to be grass-fed if you're shoving hormones in. I could go into the nuances of this lectin-free thing. It is a game changer. Clear head, sleeping less, stronger. I played basketball for an hour against 20-year-olds last night and was killing the game. Crossing cats up. I snipped someone right at the top of the key, took it in for a left-handed layup. I was working. I can do that at 39 years old because of the lectin-free diet. This is the next level for all my anti-inflammatory dieters out there. You also will fart less.

Jason Cass: Okay. So I, dude, I agree with you. I don't know if any of my 400 and some podcasts, I've mentioned the word or talked about farting. So this is a first right here. I'm happy to talk about farting because an ill-timed fart can ruin a good sales call and no one wants that. Did you ever have to fart on stage when you're giving a presentation?

Ryan Hanley: I don't know. Probably not.

Jason Cass: No, because you're in the zone. You obviously have, right?

Ryan Hanley: One time I had been boozing a little too hard the night before a gig. That happens sometimes. I was able to make it work by doing this casual stance where I pulled a chair up and I put one of my feet on the chair, one knee up, one knee down, like a Caesar pose or a Napoleon pose. I just kind of let it slowly leak out. Then I walked away. I did it all the way on one side where no one was sitting. One time, yeah, I had to do that. Just one time. After that, I was giggling to myself. I was like, "I can't believe I got away with that." I don't even know if I actually got away with it because no one came up and said, "Yo, bro, you just carpet bombed me over there." But yeah, one time I had to do that. It was years ago. I can't even remember. Now I don't get bombed up the night before speaking gigs. This was probably five years ago. But yeah, I definitely did that.

Jason Cass: So to your sharing thing, this has been one of the things that I think is really interesting because it bothers a lot of people that we share as much as we do.

Ryan Hanley: Oh my god, it definitely bothers people. I know that because people will straight tell me that it bothers them. I've also had people come in and out of my world, and it's coincidental if I didn't know that they didn't appreciate that right. You're sharing so much that we're willing to spend this time, which could be doing other things, to give away free information and do it happily. That really rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Jason Cass: You obviously don't want other people to experience the five truths for you to be that way. You're prohibiting. My thought is I want other people to experience what I do, the good. For them to do that, they have to understand some of these things I've done. We say that we've never shared. When I said "we," I'm talking about society. Do you think the guy who first invented the wheel was like, "Oh, I'm keeping this to myself. Trademark that." He may have trademarked it, but I'm telling you right now, he didn't have the wheel for like 10 years and no one knew. Someone told me, and when someone was like, "Dude, how'd you make that?" He's like, "Hey, let me show you real quick." This happened because there's more than one wheel out there. We go down to the very bottom of it. Yes, we do. Once again, it's in our industry and we're breaking that. What we're doing is one little step towards making us professionals.

Jason Cass: When we can be seen as professionals, all of a sudden we're not going to be worrying so much about retention. Do you think a lawyer looks at retention? Do you think a doctor looks at retention? Do you think a CPA looks at retention? We do because we don't act as professionals and we're constantly losing the client. When we take a more advisory role, that means non-standard business too. That means preferred business too. That means personalized too. That means commercial lines too. That means professional liability too. We have to. To be honest with you, I'm so sick and tired of talking about it. I really don't anymore because, Hanley, there are so many people that think now like us. Just focus on them. It's part of the great separator. We're going to be separated. Sometimes a separation doesn't all come at once. It slowly separates. It's the Steve Jobs thing. We overestimate how much change happens in two years and underestimate how much change happens in 10 years.

Ryan Hanley: That's exactly right.

Jason Cass: What we don't realize in one day, we're going to wake up and some of us are going to be over there and some of us are going to be over here. It's going to be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened?" I think we all get scared about it because we think and we see the travel agencies and how they literally went in a year or two. To be honest, they didn't. It was a five to 10 year process that to society, all of a sudden it was like, "Whoa, one day we went online to buy our tickets." But to the industry, that thing had been separating throughout the 90s. That's where we're at now. I hate using the travel agency. They weren't treated as professionals.

Ryan Hanley: Yeah. They weren't. And I just said Steve Jobs and that was Bill Gates that said that. So I apologize to everyone listening. It was a good saying. I think so many of these sayings aren't really true by who they said. Mark Twain. I don't know if that son of a bitch was that smart. I'm sorry, but man, some of the shit he said was unbelievable.

Jason Cass: You know who my favorite is? Emerson. We just put an Emerson quote up in my son's bedroom. My wife looked at me and she's like, "I know he's six, and this is definitely a six year old's bedroom, but it's not like a dopey six-year-old's bedroom. He's got some cool stuff in there. He's got an Emerson quote on his wall." I was like, "That's cool to me." It's something about being who you are. People are exactly who they are. He said it in a much cooler way.

Ryan Hanley: My son has an Emerson on his wall too. It's a TV, the Emerson TVs. I think it's a 37 inch. Pretty amazing. All kinds of shit on it.

[Both laugh]

Ryan Hanley: All right, man. So we got a few more minutes here. There's a couple more things I want to talk about. I'm going to title this "Everything You Need to Know About Jason Cass." That's going to be the title of this episode. Like I've said a bunch of times in building my agency, I don't know what I don't know. So what don't we know about you? What is something that you, and I know you're such an open book, maybe there's nothing, but what's something that you don't normally talk about? It could be something even trivial. What is something that we don't know about you that can just give us a better feel? Because I feel like you have been an underappreciated resource in our industry by the industry at large. There is a large community that, right or wrong, holds you up on this pedestal, which may be a good indication of insanity. But what about the industry at large? What is something that is going to help them better understand you and maybe gain a little more appreciation for the value that you provide to our industry?

Jason Cass: Man, it's tough. I have an answer for you. I've only talked about it one time on my podcast. It's something that's the hardest thing in the world for me to talk about. When we talk about the industry, though, because that's a personal thing. When we talk about the industry, I really don't know if there's anything out there more. I created podcasts. I speak. I written books. I created courses. I do everything I can to try and educate and keep moving the industry forward. Forward momentum and change is what we do. I really don't know. Brainshare, that's something maybe a lot of people don't know. That's an invite-only event. But my passion for the industry is very, very strong.

Ryan Hanley: Where do you think that comes from? Why? What is it about the industry? Why do you care so much?

Jason Cass: Hanley, I'm not bullshitting you. I never thought I would have the life that I have. There are people who have a lot better life, but for Jason Cass, when I'm in Cuba, I told a story about the fact that in the morning there, I eat crackers and butter. That's what you eat there. With some water that you're hoping is bottled water. The crackers are hard and they're made by rations. They're what they get every morning down at the local market that the government hands out. I'm eating that. What's so funny is so many people who come with me can't stand it. I can take it. Because when me and my sisters were young, we ate peanut butter and crackers for dinner.

Jason Cass: This industry has given me a life on a lake with a boat and a beautiful house and an unbelievable city. I have a gorgeous wife and two awesome kids. The reason I have this stuff, I'm sorry, is because of God, but God led me to freaking insurance. It's amazing how this life, and I want people to experience it. When someone leaves this industry or they go to the dark side, to the company side, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what are you doing?" At least start on the company side and then come to the independent insurance side. It drives me crazy that people left this industry and they didn't get to experience what we experienced. What's so funny is when people think about being an insurance agent, they always think life and health, right?

Jason Cass: That my father-in-law, he was like, "You can't go into life and health. That's terrible." But there's this thing, you know, that one's better than the other. Well, they're both great. They're in the insurance business. I would say P&C is better because of residual income. Right. But I would say that that was the best.

Jason Cass: So if you want me to talk about something that I don't necessarily always talk about, but I will tell you this, my close friends know this about me. It's a very, very hard thing for a lot of people to think about and know it makes sense to them. When I first talked about it on my podcast, I talked very lightly about it, but I have bipolar disorder. I have bipolar disorder. I've had it since 2005. It was a very, very embarrassing thing for me. I was forced to go because my wife was going to leave me. And there were just things that—I've never been a physically abusive person or verbally abusive. That wasn't it. I couldn't keep a job. My mood swings were up and down.

Jason Cass: I'm what's known as a manic. So you have depression on one end and you have mania on the other end. Our bodies operate between, let's say, a two and a six, if there was a zero to ten. Most bodies operate between a four and a six, excuse me. Mine operates around a seven or nine. And if you guys know from being a follower, that's why I get excited. That's why. But sometimes when you have this, you can't control that out there.

Jason Cass: I have what's called type two. There's type one and type two, the best way I can say it. The crazy person getting pulled off the plane because he didn't take his medications, going crazy—that's type one. Type two is very, very treatable, very doable. And it's been the greatest thing in my life. And I say this with all my heart, this is my superpower. So I talk to other people that I know have bipolar disorder or have ADHD—very, very, very, very similar in its ways. I talk to them and I tell them, you have this superpower. If you look at the most hundred famous people over the last 500 years, clinically, they think most of them had some kind of ADHD, AHD, bipolar, some kind of stuff. Your brain's processing at a faster speed than most people. Correct.

Jason Cass: But here's the deal. You have to take the pill in order for you to see the benefits. So many of my friends have said, "Jason, after listening to you, I thought for five, six, seven years, like I did my wife, 'Oh, I don't have an issue. Oh, I don't know. That just makes me unique. Oh, I don't want to lose my go, go, blah, blah, blah.'" And I finally found a doctor who was like, "No, you're not going to lose any of that stuff. Here's what's going to happen. Try it for 30 days." Literally after 30 days, everybody was coming to me like, "Wow, you are like, something's different with you." To me, nothing was different. To me, nothing was different.

Jason Cass: And so I have used that as a catalyst for my success. I know when my body can perform at higher levels than other people, and I capitalize on those times. I also know when my body can't. Hanley, we were having a conversation the other night. And he was like, "Hey dude, let's talk or let's do something." I'm like, "Hanley, dude, it's after seven o'clock, bro. You don't understand. Cass shuts down." I may be in this office at 6:30 in the morning, but it's seven o'clock at night. Cass shuts down. My friends will call me. "Hey Jason." I'll be like, "Yeah, what's up?" They'll be like, "All right, dude, nevermind. I'll call you tomorrow, man. I'll talk to you later." Because they know I'm just not me. My brain just works. I have to utilize that.

Jason Cass: Also, people need to know that I'm a very big spiritual man. And I want to talk about this for just a second.

Ryan Hanley: Yeah, no, go ahead.

Jason Cass: I feel spiritually very strong in my relationship and having a personal relationship with Jesus. That's not where I'm going here. I get a lot of pushback from people in the industry who see me out and will say, "Man, for a man of faith, you sure are having a lot of fun." I get that a lot. And I'm an open book. I'll confront that. And you know who you are who said that to me. I believe in balance. I believe the freaks of the world are those who are way over here and way over here. And it seems like everything good in life usually has a medium. I believe the same way. I believe that if you do a ton of drugs and you're an alcoholic, that's not good. I believe if you're a goody two shoes and you stay in the house and you only do your little thing and read books, I truly don't believe that's good.

Jason Cass: I think being out and socializing with people—does that mean we go out and have 10 beers? No. Joe and I, on a very regular basis, we will go out on Wednesday or Thursday, go up to the little taqueria. We have our one margarita. We talk for 30 minutes to an hour and we go home. And the margarita is very strong, by the way, isn't it, Joe? Very, very, very strong.

Joe: [off-mic] Yeah, very strong.

Jason Cass: So what I want to say about that is that's important. I want people to understand that you're not based on some kind of model or some kind of stereotype on who you are—whether that's how you run your agency, whether that's how you are spiritually, whether that's how you are as a friend, if that's how you are as a husband, if that's how you are as a business person. Don't listen to their model. Don't pay attention. Look at their infrastructure and say, "That's how they built that building. And I'm going to make mine a little bit different, but it's off the same basic principles." But we have to understand we're all unique in our own ways.

Jason Cass: Every agent out there, we keep trying to do what other people are doing. We try to let people know what other people are doing. And what I'm saying by this is we keep trying to judge ourselves as who we are as business owners, fathers, all that stuff I just said, based on what somebody else is doing. Don't do that. Don't base it on that highlight reel. Don't base it on just because this veteran said that. If it's not working for you, change it.

Jason Cass: It's like Mike Crowley said. He tried to get his owners to listen to him, his dad and uncle, and they wouldn't do it. So he finally just went out and spent his own money, his own time doing it. And then all of a sudden they came to him and was like, "Holy shit, this is awesome." Your father-in-law did a very similar thing back in 2012. "What are you doing back there?" Then all of a sudden he saw leads coming in the door. He calls you in the office and goes, "Hey, Alicia, I'm going to tell you what the hell you're doing over here. I've been talking to you about this for a year." But that's what I'm saying. You didn't pay attention to what your dad said, or I'm sorry, father-in-law said. You said, "All right, I'm going to do what he wants to do. But I also think there's a better way." And we now know 10 years later that you were right. He was right too, though, because some of those basic principles still work. You can't forgive the basic principles.

Ryan Hanley: I want to be respectful of your time. I appreciate you sharing about the bipolar aspect of your life. I think you have turned that very much into a superpower. After hearing Chris Green talk about some of the things that he's dealt with and how that's helped him get past it, the constraint that the disease or whatever the obstacle places upon you forces you to exceed in aspects of your life, if you're willing to put in the work, beyond what someone who maybe has it easier in one way or another has.

Ryan Hanley: You always bust my chops about being from a big city. I grew up in a town with 1,010 people. And I wear that like a chip. That has always been something for me. I think we need a thing. I think it's okay to have a chip on your shoulder. You don't have to be an a-hole. But I think saying, "Look, I have this bipolar thing," or Chris has the learning disability, or whatever your thing is—it's okay to wear that a little bit because it's fuel. It gives you a thing that forces you to push forward.

Ryan Hanley: But what I love, because this is one of the things that just makes you special, is you're reaching out to other people in that community and helping them understand your experience and take the damn pill. It's going to make you a better version of yourself for the people around you.

Ryan Hanley: And then your comment around the instruction manual—that's been a hard lesson for me to learn as well. I'm a huge consumer of information in general. That bookshelf only has a shelf and a half, but I've probably read two of those worth of books in my life. I just throw them out or give them away. The shitty ones I throw out. But that instruction manual idea—something that I've consistently learned from you is be completely willing to just choose the thing that works best and go do it. Don't feel like because this person who you really respect is using this thing, and this person who you really respect that you have to follow that same path. You don't have to. That's something that I have to think through a lot because I tend to want to just follow the manual. That is almost a path to guarantee that you won't get to where you want to go.

Jason Cass: Right. You're going to get to where somebody else wants you to be. We all did that when we were younger. We did stuff that our parents wanted us to be. And there was that day we woke up and was like, "You know what, that's not what makes me happy."

Jason Cass: One thing I want to go back to, which we're going to end with this, because I know I'll talk forever, especially you and I. But the thing that's so important is this thing that has to do with the highlight reel. I was fascinated one time whenever I heard that like, this person was born in 1900, and they died in 1950, right? And then they have the dash in between. And they said those were the years they were born and died, but in between that was their life. I always thought that was cool. I see that same way with social media highlights. Your story, our story, is the gaps in between those highlights.

Jason Cass: I was talking with a guy one time and he says, "Jason, if you look on my Facebook page, there's a picture of me and my family, and we're all standing there right in front of the Magic Kingdom castle in the back. Got my arm around her and the little kids there, and we're smiling." And he says, "What you don't realize is that right before that picture was taken, my wife and I were yelling at each other because the kids were going back and forth. After the picture, they snap it. I grab my son. She grabs our daughter, goes one way, and we go the other way." See, that's what we show—that picture in front of the Magic Kingdom castle. But what's amazing is, and I think this is where social media is going, is that humility. It's showing you who you actually are. Because so many people have taken that picture in front of the Magic Kingdom castle and they have had that situation where it's just, "Hey everybody smile," and then boom, it's back to that.

Jason Cass: Your story lies between those highlight reels. Don't be scared to share that. Erin Nutting does a really good job of that. It's not, "Hey, look at my cute kid getting ready to go to school." She shows it when the kid's in the high chair with milk all over it with no shirt on and his diaper in it through the cereal halfway across the kitchen. And you know what people do? They start commenting like crazy, like, "Oh my gosh, my kid does that," because we want to grasp onto the fact that we're not alone in doing some of these things. In between the highlight reels, real lives—the physical, the mental, the spiritual diseases, disorders that make us who we are. That's a story that needs to be told.

Jason Cass: And I appreciate you coming on. I'll be honest with you, Hanley. I have never had a podcast where I've talked so much about myself. And because my ego is so huge, I love it. But no, I mean, being serious. I think this is important. It's why every podcaster I know in the insurance industry, I have brought you on my podcast. And the reason is, I want people to know that story. Because those stories are how we connect. Because those are what's in between the highlight reels, man.

Ryan Hanley: Well, it's about time that we told the Jason Cass story. I'm just glad that you're willing to share all that, man. I think this is incredibly powerful stuff. You are a treasure for the industry. It is a pleasure to be your buddy. I can't wait for Innovation 2020, which I'm going to see you in two days.

Jason Cass: Two days.

Ryan Hanley: We'll come out after that, but as a recording this, I'll see you in two days. And we're going to rock the house. So, my man, be good. I'll see you. Everyone listening at home, I love you for listening. We're out of here. Peace.

Jason Cass: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[End of interview. Advertisement follows.]

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