Judge Judy Sheindlin

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of *Good Hang*. I am starstruck today. Very excited to have our guest, Judge Judy Sheindlin, who you can catch right now on Prime Video's new show, *Justice on Trial*, which is a terrific new show where she takes on and breaks down a lot of famous cases.

We have Judy on today, and we're going to talk to her about a lot of things. We talk about the importance of family. We talk about knowing your worth. We talk about how she feels about liars. And newsflash, she doesn't like them. Second newsflash, she also wears a really cute hat. Judy is here. She's here in the studio, and it's a real good one. So I'm really glad you're joining us.

As always, we like to start our episodes by talking to someone who knows our guest, who is a fan of our guest. We actually have our first super fan interview today. We are talking to Eileen Roman. Eileen is the mom of Belle Roman, our video producer, who's here in the studio today. Eileen is a huge fan of Judy and her work on *Judge Judy* and her other shows. Eileen is going to talk to us about why Judy is so important to so many, why so many people trust her, and why her show was the number one show for a million years. So Eileen is calling in. She's a Boston gal, and she has the same name as my mom. So Eileen, are you there?

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Eileen Roman: Thank you for having me.

Amy Poehler: Oh my God, it's so great to hear that Boston accent.

Eileen Roman: I try to tone it down, but it's really not easy.

Amy Poehler: No, I mean, we'll never get rid of it. And why should we, Eileen?

Eileen Roman: Exactly. I'm proud of it.

Amy Poehler: I think it's really great that we're talking to somebody who watches Judy Sheindlin and has watched her. Sounds like as much as I have, because I think we're both super fans.

Eileen Roman: Yeah, I am a super fan.

Amy Poehler: Okay, tell me when you first encountered our guest, Judy.

Eileen Roman: In the beginning. There was nobody like her on TV. And she was just real. The stories could be the same, but the outcome was never the same. I just loved her. No-nonsense, straight-talking, hardworking woman. That's why I have so much respect for her, because I know it probably wasn't an easy journey.

Amy Poehler: Now, are you or were you a working mom?

Eileen Roman: I chose to be a stay-at-home mom, but I took that job really seriously and I gave it 100 percent. I really did. That's my mindset, because I always worked my whole life since I was 12 years old—paper route, working in a restaurant, everything. I worked at Brigham's. I worked at Jerry Jingle. I worked at all kinds of places.

Amy Poehler: I love Brigham's.

Eileen Roman: Yeah, Brigham's.

Amy Poehler: Oh, my God. Best ice cream ever. So you remind me a little bit of my mom. My mom was a teacher. Back then, if you were pregnant, you had to quit. They were like, "So sorry, your job is over." And you were like, "Of course, I'm so sorry, I'm pregnant." She had to stop. She stopped teaching. She raised us. She was at home for X amount of years and then went back to work after. And you, like a lot of women your age, were at home with a baby and looking to figure out what to watch on daytime TV. What do you think was so great about those beginning times when you were watching Judy as *Judge Judy* on TV?

Eileen Roman: I learned a lot from her. I learned how to stand up for myself. I learned about the law, things I didn't realize. Like funny things—if you get engaged and you break off the engagement, you have to give that ring back. You have to give it back.

Amy Poehler: You have to give it back.

Eileen Roman: I didn't know that. It's silly, I know, but it was just things like that. The other thing I learned from her was honesty. She just wanted people to be honest. She could read people. I learned so much from her. I learned not to give someone money if you don't think you're going to get it back, because there's a chance you won't. She taught that if you loan money to friends or relatives, you have to get it in writing. I learned so much. She talked to young people, young parents, about how to raise their children and think about education.

She kind of broke social protocol all the time and reminded us, especially us women, that we should just say it clearly and plainly and move on. She would always say, "Be smart. Don't... they didn't keep me here because I'm beautiful."

Amy Poehler: "Beauty fades, but dumb is forever" is a great Judy line. "If you eat the steak, you have to buy it."

Eileen Roman: Right. And you're right. You're tapping into something deeper. There's something about watching her that felt calming. She has a rough exterior, but I really think deep down, she's really soft. I think that showed at the end of the cases. A lot of times she would say something really kind, like "Be careful" or "Take care of yourself" or "Don't get taken advantage of." Sometimes there were women there who were taken advantage of, and she would tell them to be bright and smart and that you have your whole life ahead of you. That's how I judged her. I just thought she was wonderful.

Amy Poehler: Okay, so I have the pleasure of having Judy in the studio today. And by the way, I have the pleasure of working with your wonderful daughter.

Eileen Roman: Thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm so proud of my daughter. This is a dream come true for her.

Amy Poehler: Let's talk about how great she is for a second. She's covering her face right now. Tell us why Belle is so great.

Eileen Roman: Belle is hardworking. She's kind. She has empathy for people. She's really enthusiastic about what she does. She loves what she does. It's so great to see your daughters achieve a dream that they've always wanted, and she did it on her own. I'm really proud of her for that. I think my husband and I instilled a really great work ethic in them, and I think that helped her journey to where she is right now.

Amy Poehler: Oh, that's so nice. I want you to know she's crying in the studio right now.

Eileen Roman: I'm so proud of her, Amy. You have no idea. To have her work with you is just amazing. I'm really impressed with you. You're also one of my heroes because I love to see women in places where they guide and help other women through their work or their personal life. I feel like that's what you do.

Amy Poehler: Thank you very much, Eileen. I really appreciate that. Okay, so we're going to ask Judy a question, and I need some help and some thoughts. What do you want me to ask her today?

Eileen Roman: One of the reasons I love Judge Judy so much is that she can really read people. She can tell if you're telling the truth, if they're hiding a secret. I really feel like she can read people. I want to know—did she always have that instinct, or did that develop over time as she had more cases in front of her? I think that is one of her most important attributes. You can't fool Judge Judy.

Amy Poehler: Believe me, I know. I'm worried because we're about to do it. What if she just in the middle of it goes, "I don't believe you"?

Eileen Roman: No, no, no. She knows.

Amy Poehler: It's going to be hard for me not to do a Judge Judy impersonation to Judy Sheindlin. It's going to be hard not to call her Judge Judy. You kind of look like her today with your black robe on.

Eileen Roman: Thank you for saying that.

Amy Poehler: Subconsciously, I try sometimes to think about slight subconscious ways as a nod to my guest. I was like, "I'm going to wear this."

Eileen Roman: It's going to be an honor to speak with her.

Amy Poehler: It is an honor.

Eileen Roman: All right. Thank you so much, Amy. I really appreciate it. Have a great day. I can't wait to hear this episode. I'm so excited.

Amy Poehler: Thanks so much.

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I love your style. I don't think people get to see you in your actual clothes. People only see you when you're working.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's helpful. So you can walk around almost anonymously until you speak.

Amy Poehler: It's interesting speaking. By the way, have you seen—are we on now?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yeah, we're on.

Amy Poehler: Have you seen those baby Judge Judy?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yeah, the AI.

Amy Poehler: The AI. I'm obsessed. Is that frightening?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That is so frightening. You are all over TikTok. Your sound, your clips, your audio clips are everywhere online.

Amy Poehler: But is that fair?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Good question. Is it fair? Because they can really have you say anything. They can have you comment about anything. I've seen some very reputable journalists talking about penile dysfunction and clearly all AI generated. I would say the young people are very aware of AI. They are very sharp to see it and sense it. They know what is AI and what isn't. Their eye is now trained. But you still have an older population. We have to be considered.

Amy Poehler: They're going to get the older population. That's who they're going to trick.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: So you're right. So we are doomed.

Amy Poehler: So Judge Judy is here. No. Clearly not. Judy Sheindlin is here. We are so happy to have you here today. What I love about you is exactly these kinds of conversations—deep end conversations right away. Complex, deep end conversations. You have them in life. I'm lucky enough to have had a few with you already as your new friend and also in your work. What I always appreciate about you is you are not afraid to discuss complicated things and also to admit things are complicated.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: When you have to worry about it a little more when you get old because you get opinionated. If you notice that about old people, they get very opinionated. You like to think as you age, you get to know people and sort of develop a tolerance, which I did for a period of time. That's over. That period of my life is over. I am so intolerant of anything that interferes with my everyday happiness. I said, "What am I going to discuss with Amy today?" Look at Judy already taking over this interview.

Amy Poehler: So let's talk about kvetching.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Okay, good. Let's talk about it.

Amy Poehler: I love kvetching. Fantastic word, too. Great Yiddish word.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yes. You live part in the city, part in the country. You're a country mouse and a city mouse. But in the city and even in the country, you're supposed to pick up after your dog. Don't even get me started. I walk my dog and I watch people and I can sort of tell when they're pretending to look for a bag. "Oh, I had one, but I forgot." "I have a dog outside in the world, but I don't have a bag with me."

Amy Poehler: So I said, what should be the punishment for somebody who doesn't pick up after their dog? That's a great question. I came up with death is probably a little too exaggerated. But let's take this example. Let's say you've been dating your fiancé, your boyfriend since high school, and you save up enough money to have a lovely wedding and do a photography piece in Central Park with your gown. The photographer is there and you're in your gown that you've saved for for five years. You sit down on the grass because you're going to take this wonderful photograph with your gown spread out, and somebody hasn't picked up after their dog. Is the punishment the same? The crime is the same. But the effect on the victim is totally different.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Your Honor, if I may. I think if you're in Central Park, if you're in a public place anywhere in New York, you can't sit down. The minute you sit down, you've given up all rights.

Amy Poehler: So you think there is joint culpability.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Maybe.

Amy Poehler: The reason I like this thought experiment is you are a responsible dog owner. You care about your—I know you love your doggies. I think it speaks to the deeper thing that you talk about all the time, which is what are the consequences of actions? I love what you say: there are reasons for behavior, but not excuses for behavior.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's true. Behavior has many reasons to behave a certain way. And that behavior has consequences.

Amy Poehler: I think it speaks to the larger thing. Where are all the consequences anymore? There's no consequences for anything anymore. This is what older people say and feel. But it feels that way right now in the world.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yes. And that has serious implications. It has serious political implications and serious economic implications.

I'll tell you a cute story about consequences. I don't think I told you this story before. I had a case on television. It was a shopping cart from the Piggly Wiggly in Florida. Somebody took their groceries, filled their trunk, and left the cart. A gust of wind comes along and the cart goes into the next car and dents the car. The owner of the car sees this scenario unfolding and sues the person who left the cart.

Amy Poehler: Interesting.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: The defense was it was an act of God. "I didn't create the wind. I put the cart down. The cart was stable. A gust of wind came and blew the cart." I found for the person whose car was damaged. My reasoning was: but for your negligence in not taking that extra moment to put the cart in the assigned position for carts, the wind would not have been able to pick up and hit and damage the car.

Fast forward about two or three months. I'm in Florida where I live in the wintertime, shopping at Publix. It's a big parking lot. I load my car up with groceries. I noticed that I parked pretty far away from the appointed cart patrol. I looked around and there were three women standing in front of the store, looking at me, waiting for me, having seen that episode, waiting to see what I was going to do. So of course, I took the cart and I put it back where you're supposed to.

Amy Poehler: I assumed you would have returned the cart no matter what.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I probably would have, but it was the reaction of the women. They said, "All right, let's see if this gal follows what she preaches." It's a simple thing. Now I never go shopping unless I park my car right next to the place where you deposit your cart.

Amy Poehler: You must get that a lot—people turning to you to see if you're going to follow the rules.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yes.

Amy Poehler: Because your life is—and people know you as a person who talks about the importance of these rules. As a person in everyday life, we try as best we can to follow the rules. Do you get that a lot? Do you get people projecting that on you?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I don't know whether I do or not. I know this is going to sound a little hokey to you. Life has been very good to me. I like to do the right thing. If you do the right thing most of the time or all of the time, it doesn't guarantee that at the end of the day, all good things will happen to you. But it's been my experience that if you don't do the right thing, eventually—not immediately, but eventually—that's going to come back.

Amy Poehler: There's so many things I want to get into. I'm curious about where this strong feeling about there being a system to follow and the importance of law and order came from. Also how you found yourself motivating yourself and your own path in life, which started very young, I assume, in your own family. What was New York in the 50s like in Brooklyn? What was the feeling in your family with your siblings and your parents about what was the way to operate?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Always the right thing. My father was a dentist. My mother ran his dental office. His dental office was in the house, so we were all very close. There was never a question of trying to get over on the system. It was always you work, you earn a living, you take care of your family, you save up, you go to Grossinger's for a weekend or the Concord.

Amy Poehler: What was Grossinger's?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Grossinger's was a resort like the Concord Hotel.

Amy Poehler: Like *Dirty Dancing*?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Exactly, but bigger. That's where Jewish people went for the weekend. Everybody was gluttonous. There was much too much food. You took dancing lessons. I hope the people who watch your podcast know what *Dirty Dancing* is.

Amy Poehler: I hope they do too. I think they do. What were you like as a young—what was young Judy like?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I pretty much followed the rules. The couple of times that I didn't, I incurred the disappointment and wrath of my father, who never hit me. But I never wanted to disappoint him. I said, "It wasn't worth it. Marvin wasn't worth it." Sneaking away with Marvin wasn't worth it.

Amy Poehler: It never is.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No.

Amy Poehler: You've spoken about your relationship with your dad. It was a very important one for you. Do you think it gave you confidence?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Of course. I do think that women find their confidence from their fathers. They find loving from their mothers, I think. I know some women who would argue with that, but the women I know who feel terrific about themselves had wonderful encouraging relationships with their dads. You did, and I did.

Amy Poehler: How did he used to encourage you? What did it look like?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: If I had a pimple on my forehead, he said, "Oh my god, that is so gorgeous. Everyone should have one—not quite as big as yours, but everyone should have one." He recognized my limitations, I think, my intellectual limitations. I'm not an academic. And believe it or not, Amy, I'm not intellectually curious.

Amy Poehler: Interesting.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I'm not. If something is, it is. I don't have to know why it is. I know it just is. It makes my life much less complicated. He understood that.

Amy Poehler: Was he like that?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No, he was more of an academic. He filled people's teeth, but he wrote poetry and he carved things in wood and soap. He loved the ballet and the theater. He was more of a Renaissance person. Not me. I'm a meat and potatoes girl.

Amy Poehler: But you're so good at figuring out people. Where did you get your people skills?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That I don't know. I think it's probably genetic, just like music. Just like Mozart or Rembrandt. I think you have a particular skill. I think everybody has a particular skill.

Amy Poehler: Getting back to younger Judy. You decide, "Okay, I have this part of me that sees the world this way. I want to go to law school." What year did you graduate law school?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I graduated, I think, in 1964 from law school. I did college in five and a half years, went summers, and got out of law school. Then I had a job that I hated.

Amy Poehler: Corporate lawyer?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I worked for L'Oreal of Paris. They were hiring two lawyers, a man and a woman. The man they put in corporate. Me, they gave a sheet of drug products—their L'Oreal products, suffrage and all different kinds of hair tints. They gave me the job of calling the drugstores and getting orders from them. He was doing law work. I was doing sales, basically. I was doing sales secretarial work.

Amy Poehler: So you did what you did then. You got pregnant.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That was the only way to quit a job. I was home for a while with my kids. I started watching soap operas.

Amy Poehler: Which ones?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I don't remember. But I said, "Life has to be more than this for me." I was fortunate to go to a lawyer's event, and I met a man who was a law student with me. He said, "I'm looking for somebody in the family court. I work at Corporation Counsel in the family court. Are you interested in a job?" I remember going home and telling my family, "Mommy's going to work." They said, "Who's going to take care of us?" I said, "A very nice lady." They said, "Who is it?" I said, "I don't know yet. But she'll be a very nice lady. You're going to be very happy."

Amy Poehler: I love that story. On behalf of working women everywhere and women that work in the home, which is also its own job, you were always an example of a woman who got great self-esteem from their work and who we got to see work in real time. That is what watching you feels like. It feels like a very successful woman at work. You have two boys. You love them. They love you. You have a blended family now.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: We have a blended family. My second great grandchild, who's cute as a bug's ear. I'm sure some would have preferred that I be home to make them a hot lunch and send it off to school like everybody else's moms did in those years.

Amy Poehler: You were very unique in that way. There weren't a lot of full-time working moms.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: But I can tell you now, they are reaping the benefit of my being a full-time working person.

Amy Poehler: How did you deal with being one of a few during that time? Did you struggle at all?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No, I didn't struggle at all. I just felt as if it was right for me. I think that if you're happy at home, being a full-time homemaker and parent, and they're needed—you need somebody to take kids on field trips, to be there for the bake sale, to be a really active part of the PTA—that's what makes things go around. If that's satisfying for you, that's great. But I always believe that a woman has to have a way of earning a living. Why? Because if a woman doesn't have a way of supporting herself, she is in a position of being controlled. That doesn't happen all the time, and it doesn't always happen in a fashion that's aggressive. But that's a mentality. In the back of your mind, you should always have a way of saying, "I don't like this. This is not making me happy. This is not making me fulfilled. I would like to change, but I can't because I don't have a plan. I don't have an exit plan." That's very sad for a woman. A man always has an exit plan. Most men can live out of a shoe. Women, they really can't.

Amy Poehler: You were ahead of your time in that thinking. You were unique in that way because you were coming up during a time when that wasn't always the way. Women certainly weren't encouraged to be that way, but also couldn't find it in themselves.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No, they were supposed to be nurses or teachers. My first husband thought that that was the only thing women did. They were nurses or teachers.

Amy Poehler: My mom talks about that. Her father sat her down and said, "Do you want to be a nurse or a teacher?" He was a lovely man and he loved her very, very much and believed her to be smart, but just assumed that was your choice.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Right.

Amy Poehler: Did you get any pushback at the time from other people? Did you feel supported when you were making these choices in your life?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I felt always supported.

Amy Poehler: Then you find yourself in family court. You've spoken about this, but it's so interesting. I love how you speak about this: your life keeps unfolding. We don't get to know you, Judy, until you're in your 50s, late 40s maybe?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I started my program when I was 52.

Amy Poehler: You speak very often and really eloquently about the idea that you never know what is around the corner. You never know how your life is going to unfold. You take this dramatic turn from being in family court to being on TV. When you were first on TV, did you have to learn how to be yourself on TV?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: It was easy.

Amy Poehler: No, it was easy?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yeah. Because I didn't have to make up a person. That's the person. If that's the person that they said, "We want this person on TV," why would I want to modify that or change it? It was easy for me.

Amy Poehler: Being yourself isn't always easy for people.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's unfortunate for them. It was very easy for me. The public can tell, Amy. The public can tell when you're a phony. The public can tell whether you believe what you're talking about. I often say, "If you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory." I stole that from somebody, but whoever I stole it from is dead, so it's now become mine. If you tell the truth, it makes your life so much easier.

Amy Poehler: How can you tell when someone's lying?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: First of all, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true. If the story doesn't make sense to you when you're a relatively normal human being, it's usually not true.

Amy Poehler: What I love so much about watching you work is in your show, you have a tolerance for people's unfortunate choices and mistakes and learning moments. But you have such a low tolerance for being lied to. If someone lies to you, they're done.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: You can only lie to me once, and then everything else you say becomes suspect. "Did you have insurance on the car?" "Yes." "Can I see the card?" "The dog ate it." "My phone fell in the toilet."

Amy Poehler: I've seen you do something which I find very satisfying and calming to watch. You'll give them another chance in that moment. Sometimes you say, "I'm going to ask you again." Maybe you just lied out of reflex. People are just so stressed. You're being kind. You're a much kinder person than I am, actually.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: You are.

Amy Poehler: You are. I know you are. The reason I say it, Judy, is I don't like to be stressed when I watch shows. I don't like to watch people argue. I don't like to watch people be made fun of. It's not my thing. I loved watching your shows. I didn't feel like you were there to humiliate or to let people humiliate each other. There was a controlled environment that you were in charge of, and you are paying attention. There were times where I felt like there were gestures of grace where you would say, "I'm going to let you answer that again. One more time."

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's nice of you. I'm glad you're a fan.

Amy Poehler: Do you disagree?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No. I think sometimes people's initial gut reaction is to be self-protective. People lie because they're nervous. They're protecting a position. If I catch you by the eye, I'm going to say, "You have parents. You think the parents want to hear that? They're going to watch and they're going to tell their friends to watch this episode. You're going to have friends who will watch it. Are you sure you want to go there?" Because I have the capacity to make you look like an idiot. You want me to do that?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: It'll be my pleasure. I'm good at it. That's what they pay me for. I would much rather you tell me the truth.

Amy Poehler: Yes.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: But if you don't, I can handle it.

Amy Poehler: You can handle it. I mean, you can handle it. I imagine being somebody in your life who is trying... Do you find that what part of you in your personal life is softer than what we see on TV?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Everything.

Amy Poehler: So what part of you is the soft, deep part that people don't get to see?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: With my dog. When my dog snuzzles up next to me, if I'm not feeling well, they can sense that. She usually sleeps on the foot of the bed if she knows that I'm not feeling well. She comes over and checks on me at night. I love to smell her. She smells so delicious. Nothing but giving. If you're an animal lover, then you know. It's pure, pure love that they have for you. If they're a good dog.

Amy Poehler: Yeah.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: So I'm soft with her.

Amy Poehler: I find you to be very warm.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I like to think so.

Amy Poehler: So what would people describe as the warm parts of you that people don't get to see?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Sometimes you meet a person who has a kindred spirit. As you age, you peel that back and eliminate people from your life. But every once in a while, you meet somebody new. That's what happened when we met. We don't see each other all the time, but I know we have a fondness for each other.

Amy Poehler: Yes.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's a lovely thing. It becomes more lovely when you're older because you still have lots of people to meet. I came downtown today from Greenwich, Connecticut, where I live.

Amy Poehler: You don't do a lot of these, Judy. I really appreciate it.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: This one. So don't call.

Amy Poehler: Yeah, nobody else. Judy's not on some tour right now. Don't think she's going to do a bunch of these. She's not coming at them.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I just came to see you for an hour.

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Amy Poehler: Okay, let's talk about us meeting because I feel like I kind of manifested it in my own way and forced us to be friends. So thank you for going along with it. I remember meeting for the very first time on a talk show together. I think it was Kelly Ripa and whoever was hosting with her at the time. I brought in my book that I loved your books. I asked you to sign them. We had a quick talk. I thought that's it. I won't bother Judy anymore. Then I heard that you were going to be given a lifetime achievement award for the Daytime Emmys. I called up your people and said, "Can I give it to Judy if she doesn't have someone giving it to her yet?" You very nicely said yes. It was my pleasure to write that speech. It was the easiest thing I had written. I got to give you the speech. We got to hang out. I had a very exciting moment where you handed me something on stage. You came up and gave me something in the palm of your hand. It was this necklace, which I wear all the time. It's a very good luck charm for me. We started to create a friendship together. We started to have lunch and actually try to be friends. What I love about it is that I felt like you were by far my most famous guest. I've been the most nervous and most starstruck to interview you. When you said yes, we jumped for joy because I know you don't do things you don't want to do.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Not anymore. I don't know if you've ever really...

Amy Poehler: Well, have you ever done a satellite media tour?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Okay, you're right. You've had to do a few things.

Amy Poehler: What calms me about you is I know you're going to have no problem saying no to things you don't want to do. So it really meant a lot that you came. You also represent what I think is your ethos: it's never too late to figure out what you want to do, and it's never too late to make new friends. How are friendships important to you? How do they sustain you?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: They add a texture. We have a big family, and I could be busy with the big family all the time. They're different. The kids and their mates and grandchildren all have different quirks. But bringing in a new friend into your life, especially someone younger, gives you a whole new perspective, a different texture for things. Coming in to do this today, I can't even tell you where I would be or what I would be doing. But this was very good for me. I didn't know it when I said yes. I had heard you say someplace that you would like to have me as a guest. I was so touched by the fact that you took time and actually made a call to present me with something that was a very sweet moment for me with the Emmys. I said, "This is a person who's really a mensch. She's not a phony." When some people tell me, "I watched your show. I grew up with you. I sat with my grandma. Could you please sign a picture? I want to put it in her casket because she loved you." All true. I just got one from Germany, a letter from Germany, that this man's best friend passed away. He was cremated, and he wants to be able to put a note from me with his friend's ashes. Could I please say something personal to Fred? Fred's not going to know if you write that or not. You can get somebody else to write that. But I knew that you had a different kind of understanding of watching the courtroom and watching me in the courtroom. So I knew you got it. You're so terribly talented. It's such a shame your plate is so full because otherwise there are so many things that we could do together.

Amy Poehler: I still want to work together, Judy. It would be fantastic to work together with you. We're both used to running the show, right? We both like to be...

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No, you're a writer. You're the writer. I don't have that talent.

Amy Poehler: I would argue that you do have that talent. You're doing it in...

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I don't. Let me argue you. I don't.

Amy Poehler: Let me hold on. Because you're writing in real time on that show. You do not have lines on that show.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No.

Amy Poehler: And you've written how many books? When are you going to call yourself a writer? There's a creativity that you have. You have to know your limitations that I don't have. So if I were to say to you, Amy, what I want to do for my next adventure that I would like you to play with me at doing, I want to steal baby Judge Judy back from AI.

Amy Poehler: Now I know why we started talking about it in the beginning. Now I get it.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I want to take baby Judge Judy. I haven't shut him down. I want to get more people involved with this character. Then I want to take this character and create a South Parky...

Amy Poehler: Yeah.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: So that I can Judy Kvetch through the baby. Speaking through baby Judge Judy would be a whole lot of fun.

Amy Poehler: It would be a lot of fun. But you need the right writer.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's right.

Amy Poehler: So I know Judy's still pitching me. I'm still pitching her. I love it. First of all, I'm very flattered. What I think I hear you saying is that you keep trying to figure out what your next adventure is. You're always looking for that. You have to take your next adventure with your station in life. Now, my next adventure is not being a centerfold. I know that.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Okay, but this is perfect. Let's talk about your bod, Judy?

Amy Poehler: It's not as wonderful as it was.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I've seen you in a t-shirt. You look incredible.

Amy Poehler: That was 10 years ago.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Well, a few.

Amy Poehler: Life catches up with you.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yes. Life catches up with you. So what if you're smart? I was at a Forbes conference years ago talking about women. They said, "If you had one piece of advice to give a woman, what would that one piece of advice be?" I thought for a moment and said, "Wear sleeveless as long as you can. That's my best advice. Then you have to know when to stop wearing sleeveless."

Amy Poehler: Of course. You got it. But you weight train.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I did, but I can't wear sleeveless. I don't care how much you weight train. Life catches up with you. That's why animation is so perfect. You can still have a voice.

Amy Poehler: That's right.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: You still have a voice. You still can create the message. You're creating it through a fun character. And you can show up sleeveless.

Amy Poehler: To me, you're an incredible example of someone in their 80s. When I was growing up, being in your 80s was crypt-like. You barely knew anyone in their 80s. It was a miracle to live in your 80s. Now we have people running the country who are in their 80s. I was lucky enough to be invited to your 80th birthday, which was Western casual, an incredible dance party. You love to dance. You and Jerry were on the dance floor.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Jerry's also keeping it tight.

Amy Poehler: Jerry's also keeping it really tight. I don't even just mean physically. It's an energy for life. I feel like people like myself are looking ahead to women in their 60s, 70s, and 80s to see how you're doing. Life does catch up with you. But you don't need to decide to get caught up in the crazy amount of pressure and ageism in this country, how we want older people to stop talking, disappear, retire, get quiet, lie down, and go away. You're certainly not doing that.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: The trick is, as you get older, you have to stay relevant. If you are interesting, people will want to gravitate to you. You have to be able to say to old people who want to gravitate to you, "You can't pull me down. You want to get out there and cha-cha with me? Great. But I'm not sitting home with you and watching the filter in the pool." If all else fails, I can always get a job with a law firm because I had a fallback.

Amy Poehler: You weren't stuck. That's what it felt like watching your show. You didn't have a vibe of being thirsty, as the kids say. It was like, "I'm going to do the job I usually do. I'm going to try to do it over here. If you like it, great. If you don't, fine by me. So watch." That is also an incredible negotiation technique. I don't want to talk about how incredibly successful your show was and how incredibly successful you were on it. But the way you talk about negotiation and the way you negotiated is interesting, especially for women. You have to know your worth. Women often have a problem fully appreciating their worth.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I didn't at the beginning, but I quickly was a fast read on this one. I quickly understood that I could go anywhere. But as hard as you try, you haven't been able to find anybody to do this. You put on a lot of people. You tried a lot of alternatives that haven't been as successful. So you want to continue making what you make. I'm going to teach you how to be a partner rather than an employer.

Amy Poehler: Good language.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I'm going to teach you how to be a partner. Can you tell everyone how you would negotiate? Every few years, I would sit down with the president of our company at the grill on the alley. We all knew what we were there to talk about: renewal. I would have an envelope. In the envelope would be two or three conditions, three years or four years. This is my salary. Nothing lengthy. I would take out the envelope and pass it over to whoever the president was, who kept getting changed. I was still the same person. I recognized that. The face at the other side changed, but this face was the same. I would slip in the envelope and say, "Don't open it until you get home. Let's have dinner first. Then tomorrow you'll tell me yay or nay." The final year, the president of the then company was adorable. I won't name him. When I took out my envelope, he said, "Judy, I have an envelope." When I handed him mine, he went to hand me his. I said, "I'm not taking your envelope. If I take your envelope, it's a negotiation. This isn't a negotiation."

Amy Poehler: No, no.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: He laughed. He actually laughed. I said it was true. If I took it and looked at it and opened it, of course... He said, "Maybe it's more than what's in yours." I said, "Then I'm a loser. Then I'm a loser. But this will satisfy me. Yes, this will satisfy me." He put it away. We had a great dinner. We signed on for a few years.

Amy Poehler: It's so baller. It goes exactly to what you talk about. When you're trying to figure out how to negotiate, less is more. Figure out your worth, state it, and then the ball is in someone else's court.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Yes, but you have to make yourself indispensable. That's the key. You don't have to be a television personality to make yourself indispensable. I know doctors who close their practices five years early because their assistant or their secretary who runs the office says, "You know what, I'm retiring." They say, "Well, you can't retire. I'm not ready to retire. I can't run this place without you." "Well, you want me to stay? I don't want to work on Friday. I want three weeks vacation in the summer. This is my new salary." You've made yourself indispensable. It doesn't matter what you are. You have to be aware of that. How you fit in, can somebody else that they find do what you do? You can't have unreasonable expectations. You can't want to own the company.

Amy Poehler: Well, you could want to own the company, but who would want to own that company? Have you bought the company?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I don't consider myself an artist, so it's easy for me to get down and dirty.

Amy Poehler: Interesting. The fact that you negotiated yourself in person.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's easy. It's much harder for the company who needs you to turn you down in person than it is to turn down some intermediary that is dealing for 50 people.

Amy Poehler: Also when it becomes less urgent for you.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's what it felt like always.

Amy Poehler: Again, that's why it was interesting to watch your show. It did not feel like you even had dreams about being on television.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No, I didn't.

Amy Poehler: So watching it was... We do this thing where we ask somebody who is a friend of our guest, who knows our guest or is a fan of our guest, to give me a question to ask you. First of all, I tried to get your buddy Sam Jackson. He's on a boat.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Oh, it's summertime. Sam would be on a boat.

Amy Poehler: I don't know if a lot of people know that you and Samuel L. Jackson are great friends.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: We are great friends. Really good friends.

Amy Poehler: Can you tell me how you guys met?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: We met through Sam's agent, Tony Howard. The one thing Sam hates more than anything in the world is bullshit.

Amy Poehler: You both hate that.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: He's right out front. Everybody knows that. I think that's what made us friends. We get each other. He has a wonderful wife, Latanya, wonderful and talented. He does spend the summer on boats.

Amy Poehler: So the question I got today was from Bell, one of our video producers here. Bell, how old are you?

Belle Roman: I'm 32.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: 32. I have food in my refrigerator older than you.

Amy Poehler: Bell is a big fan of you, like everyone here. Bell's mother, Eileen, who is also the same name as my mom, has watched you since the beginning. She felt very seen, heard, and represented. We talked about how your show gave both of us a sense of grounding in a very watery world. You watch it and you're like, two people or two sides come, there's some kind of judgment, there might be some way out of this mess. It's not going to be perfect, but we're going to try the best we can to figure it out in real time. We're going to ask people to tell the truth. There's going to be somebody in charge who isn't going to let things go crazy. Somebody in charge who's a woman.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: That's right.

Amy Poehler: Eileen? A lot of women I know from what people tell me, a lot of women who felt that there weren't options for them because they had not seen situations where women were in control, not only of their own lives but a lot of other people's lives as well, that it made them feel good and perhaps gave them a little bit of a jolt.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: You don't have to stay in that terrible situation. You can push yourself. You can do better. Don't bring that other bum home from the bar and give him your credit card and let him drain your bank account. Look at him, there's nothing there. I would watch some wonderful women, wonderful, smart, professional, working women, and I'd look at the schlub that they gave their car to and their own credit card that they paid for. I would look at them and say, "You must have something that I'm not seeing." It made them feel good because somebody had taken advantage of them or they felt that they had no power, that they were just going through the motions of life. You were breaking social protocol. You were saying it out loud in real time.

Amy Poehler: I was saying it out loud.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: You get flack when you have an opinion. I have very strong opinions about everything. You get flack.

Amy Poehler: I don't care. I think we're almost at the end, but I'm going to tell you one story. You said sometimes some people like and some people don't like. When did you know that you were an entertainer?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Jerry and I were sitting in a bagel restaurant called Tal Bagel on First Avenue when we were living in the city. We would go there for coffee in the morning. There were two women sitting not too far away. You get your bagel and you come down and sit at the table. We overheard them talking about the show. One of them said, "Oh my God, I love her. I cannot wait for 4 o'clock. I love her." The other one said, "I can't stand her. She is such a bitch. She is such a mean-spirited person." I looked at Jerry and said, "You know, I know I'm an entertainer. I don't care what they think as long as they watch." One hates you. When you look at IMDB or whatever it is, you see how your show is rated. You have a five, a big yellow line, and then you have a one. People who love you all the way to five, people who hate you all the way to one. Then there's two, three, four in the middle. I have very few two, three, four in the middle.

Amy Poehler: Right.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I get fives and ones. That's it. You love her or you hate her. As long as you watch. You can throw a shoe at the television. I don't care. As long as your Nielsen number is there.

Amy Poehler: Now ask your question.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: This question ties into what you're saying. Eileen was asking, you have a strong sense of intuition about yourself and other people. Was it learned or was it natural? I feel like we kind of talked about it. But what it speaks to is this bigger idea that you track yourself really well. You know what you want. You have a strong sense of self.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I do.

Amy Poehler: Okay.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: It came from father. It came from dad.

Amy Poehler: How do you cultivate it? How do you keep cultivating it in yourself? How do you help other people find it? Or do you?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Everything is by example, Amy. I don't think that you can, if somebody is sick, you can't tell them, "Feel better. I want you to feel better. You're not happy? Be happy." You can't do that for someone else. All you can do is set the table.

Amy Poehler: Is there anything you're not as certain about as you get older?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I don't know the answer to that question. I think younger people, and it may be good, they're more navel gazers than I am. I don't sit there and say, "Oh my God, are you in or out or left or right?" I'm a "what is, what is" girl. I probably could benefit from therapy.

Amy Poehler: Never been?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Never been. People will say, "You for sure could benefit from therapy." I say, "That's true. But I really don't want to know."

Amy Poehler: I understand.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I'm not that interested in why I feel the way I feel and why this hurts me and why this makes me happy or why this makes me sad. I just want to say this makes me sad. If I can excise it from my life. I'm not that introspective. As I said when I started this chat with you, I'm really not an academic. I'm not inquisitive. I'm not intellectually inquisitive. If I like the pizza, I like the pizza. If I don't, I don't. I don't want to know what you put in your pizza so that it would make it a better pizza. I don't care. I'll go from Joe's Pizza to Anthony's Pizza where I know I like it and not try to change Joe.

Amy Poehler: The very last question. What is making you laugh? I know you love to laugh. You're a big laugher. In these times, where do you go to let off steam? Is it old stuff? New stuff? Do you listen to stuff? Where do you go?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: I have very funny children.

Amy Poehler: That's great.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Many of them have an over the top, funny sense of the world, funny sense of themselves. We see each other often. I keep the family close to wherever I am. They're all wonderful and accomplished. They make me laugh. I don't find anything really... The people that made me laugh were old school people.

Amy Poehler: Who were they?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Don Rickles made me laugh. I love Don Rickles. There were moments when Henny Youngman made me laugh. "Take my wife. Please."

Amy Poehler: Did your kids tease and roast?

Judge Judy Sheindlin: No, they view the world with a light eye. They're fun and funny. Anyway, it's been fabulous.

Amy Poehler: Okay, Judy's done. Judy's done. I love it. You're right. I've taken too much of your time. Judy, thank you for doing this.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Thank you.

Amy Poehler: It means so much. I really appreciate you being here. Love you.

Judge Judy Sheindlin: Thank you. Love you.

Amy Poehler: Wow, that was really incredible. It was really exciting to have Judy in the studio. I really hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. For this polar plunge, as we wrap up this episode, I just want to remind everybody to return their grocery carts into, at the very least, an empty space. If not, the designated area. I know it's a thing. You get all your groceries in your car and you think you're done. The idea of going back out and doing that, but it does make a difference. I would implore you to try to even grab one that isn't yours. An angel gets its wings. If you believe in karma, that's a good thing to do. Just do it. Picture just like Judy did, all these women staring at you and judging you. Picture people judging you. That can really motivate you to do good things. Bye.

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