--:-- Andrew Huberman: Welcome to *Huberman Lab Essentials*, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. And now, my conversation with Dr. Aaliyah Crum. Well, great to have you here.
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: Great to be here.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: Just to start off, you've talked a lot and worked a lot on the science of mindsets. Could you define for us what is a mindset and what sort of purpose does it serve?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: We define mindsets as core beliefs or assumptions that we have about a domain or category of things that orient us to a particular set of expectations, explanations, and goals. Mindsets are an assumption that you make about a domain. Take stress, for example. What's your core belief about that? Do you view stress as enhancing, good for you, or do you view it as debilitating and bad for you? Those mindsets orient our thinking. They change what we expect will happen to us when we're stressed, how we explain the occurrences that happen or unfold when we're stressed, and also change our motivation for what we engage in when we're stressed. Mindsets simplify life by constraining the number of things we have to consider.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: I've heard you say before that mindsets simplify life by constraining the number of things we have to consider. It sounds like we can have mindsets about many things. As you said, many people are familiar with Carol Dweck's notion of a growth mindset. But what are some examples of mindsets? And how early do these get laid down? Or do we learn them from our parents?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: Carol Dweck's work originated from thinking about what she called implicit theories or core beliefs about the nature of intelligence or ability. Do you believe your baseline levels of intelligence are fixed, or do you believe they can grow and change? The reality is complex, and it's a bit of both. But as humans, we need these simplifying systems to help us understand a complex reality. Our work has aimed to expand the range of mindsets we study, focusing on stress, food, and healthy eating. Do you view healthy foods as disgusting and depriving, or as indulgent and delicious? Generally, people in Western culture view stress as debilitating and healthy foods as disgusting. These mindsets impact not just through motivational mechanisms but also shape physiological mechanisms by changing what our bodies prioritize and prepare to do. We've looked at mindsets about exercise, illness, and symptoms. These core beliefs matter because they shape what we're paying attention to, what we're motivated to do, and potentially even how our bodies respond.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: I'd love to talk about how our mindset shapes how our bodies respond. Maybe you could share the now-famous milkshake study.
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: This was a study I ran as a graduate student at Yale University with Kelly Brownell and Peter Salovey. We asked if our beliefs about what we're eating change our body's physiological response to that food, holding constant the objective nutrients. We brought people into our lab under the impression we were designing different milkshakes with vastly different metabolic concentrations. In reality, it was the same shake. At one time point, they were told it was a high-fat, high-calorie, indulgent milkshake. At the other, they were told it was a low-fat, low-calorie, sensible shake. We measured their gut peptide response, particularly the hormone ghrelin. When people thought they were consuming the indulgent milkshake, their ghrelin levels dropped at a three-fold rate stronger than when they thought they were consuming the sensible shake. Their bodies responded as if they had consumed more food, even though it was the same shake. This study showed that beliefs about food can change our physiology.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: It raises a question about different diets like plant-based or keto. Could it be that mindset effects are involved there?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: Yes. It matters what you think about the diet and what others around you and in our culture think about it. These social contexts inform our mindsets, which interact with our physiology to produce outcomes. It's not just about the diet itself but also about the mindset. If you believe in the diet, it can have a more adaptive effect. If you're skeptical or stressed about it, it might have an adverse effect.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function. Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a snapshot of your bodily health. They analyze results and provide insights from top doctors. For example, I learned I had elevated mercury levels and took steps to reduce them. Comprehensive blood testing is important, and Function makes it affordable. If you'd like to try Function, go to functionhealth.com/Huberman for early access.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: Could you tell us about the hotel workers study?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: We worked with hotel housekeepers who were active but didn't view their work as exercise. We randomized them into two groups and told half that their work was good exercise. We measured their physiological metrics like weight and blood pressure. Four weeks later, the group that learned their work was exercise had benefits like weight loss and decreased blood pressure without changing their behavior. This shows that mindset can improve health outcomes.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1. AG1 is a vitamin, mineral, probiotic drink with prebiotics and adaptogens. I've been taking it for 13 years and drink it every day. Now, AG1 is available in three new flavors. If you'd like to try AG1, go to drinkag1.com/Huberman for a special offer.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: Could you tell us about your work on stress?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: The public health message was that stress is bad, but the literature shows stress can be enhancing. We set out to test if mindsets about stress matter. We created multimedia films showcasing research on stress, one showing stress as debilitating and the other as enhancing. We randomized employees of a company undergoing layoffs into three conditions: no video, debilitating video, or enhancing video. Those who watched the enhancing films had fewer physiological symptoms and reported better performance. This shows that mindset can change how we respond to stress.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: How does that work?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: It changes motivation. If you view stress as bad, you might freak out or check out. If you view it as enhancing, you're motivated to utilize the stress to achieve your goals. It also changes physiology, with more moderate cortisol response and higher DHEA levels.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Carbon. Carbon is a diet coaching app that learns your metabolism and adapts your program. If you're looking to improve your body composition, try Carbon. Go to joincarbon.com/Huberman for a free seven-day trial.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: How should we think about stress? Is there a short list of ways to leverage stress to our advantage?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: The first step is to acknowledge that you're stressed. The second is to welcome it because it means you care about something. The third is to utilize the stress response to achieve your goals. Stress is a neutral experience; it's how we respond that matters. Mindsets are a portal between conscious and subconscious processes. They operate as a default setting in the brain, influencing how we respond to situations.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: Where can people find you, ask questions, find your papers, learn more?
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: All our papers and materials are on our website, mbl.stanford.edu. We also have a link to Stanford SPARK, which has toolkits for rethinking stress. We provide resources for adopting a stress-enhancing mindset.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: Thank you so much for taking time to talk to us about these ideas. I learned so much.
--:-- Dr. Aaliyah Crum: Thank you. This work is the tip of the iceberg of what can and should be done. I invite your listeners to share stories or collaborate if they're inspired by this work. The comment section on YouTube is a great place to do that.
--:-- Andrew Huberman: Empire. Empire.
