--:-- [Theme music fades out]
--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire, I'm John Bickley, and this is your Sunday edition. Joining us now is Daily Wire culture reporter Megan Basham. So Megan, when Making a Murderer first came out back in 2015, it was huge. It won four Emmys. And a lot of the commentary around the time was that it highlighted how broken our justice system is. And it represented some of the earliest anti-police sentiment that broke through in a mainstream way.
--:-- Megan Basham: It's interesting that you bring up that issue of activism because after the Netflix series released, that was really what it seemed like the creators wanted. And I think that played a big role in its popularity. It wasn't just a mystery, it was a cause.
--:-- John Bickley: So the development of Making a Murderer started with Laura Ricciardi, who was an attorney and an aspiring filmmaker. And this is a clip from Convicting a Murderer in which one of the defense attorneys talks about how Ricciardi became interested in his client, Stephen Avery's case.
--:-- Megan Basham: And interspliced with that, we hear Deb Klemp, who was a friend of Avery's, talking to him in prison about Ricciardi's interest in interviewing him for a potential film.
--:-- John Bickley: Very shortly after Stephen was charged in November, a lawyer who was not particularly happy, I think, being a lawyer and was pursuing film at Columbia University in New York, was riding the subway. And as you do on the subway, you read a newspaper, right? She said she saw his on the front page of the New York Times paper.
--:-- Megan Basham: No. Yeah, so it was way out there in New York. Here she finds a few column inches devoted to the story of an exoneree released two years earlier and then re-arrested and charged with murder.
--:-- John Bickley: There she is reading those few inches and she says I going to Manitowoc Wisconsin So Ricciardi from the get seemed interested in pursuing a story where she thought perhaps an injustice had occurred
--:-- Megan Basham: Here she is describing how she viewed her work. I could have a broader reach if I went into the arts and possibly use art for good. And so it's not surprising to me at all that this was the first project I chose to do out of law school.
--:-- John Bickley: Now, obviously, the only way that Art might be able to, quote unquote, do good in a case where a jury has already decided is if the jury got it wrong. And for those who aren't familiar with making a murderer or the Avery case, what's so fascinating about it is that we know the jury did get it wrong the first time out.
--:-- Megan Basham: The story really does start with a wrongful conviction. In 1985, Avery had been found guilty of sexual assault and attempted murder. And he served 18 years of a 32-year sentence when DNA evidence eventually exonerated him.
--:-- John Bickley: So I spoke to Candace Owens, who is the host and producer of Convicting a Murderer, which interrogates the craze that erupted from making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: And she says, you know, as she was working on this series, it was very easy to see why Ricciardi and the audience would have found Avery so compelling.
--:-- John Bickley: Obviously, Stephen Avery was, in fact, wrongfully convicted at first. And so when somebody's wrongfully convicted of anything, and in this case, it was this horrific rape and attempted murder of another woman. And then that person is vindicated. And you realize that, you know, this is prior before they had DNA evidence.
--:-- Megan Basham: Suddenly DNA evidence gets involved and they realize this man actually is serving a prison sentence for something that he didn't do. It's already a naturally compelling story.
--:-- John Bickley: And then you find that that person is being investigated again for another murder. And you go, oh, there's no way. You just got out. There's no way he could possibly do this.
--:-- Megan Basham: So I think that their motivations were probably pure.
--:-- John Bickley: So let's talk about the second case, because this is the one that really made making a murderer a cultural phenomenon. For those who don't know, can you summarize what happened?
--:-- Megan Basham: Sure. So once new DNA evidence clears Avery, he gets released and files a $36 million lawsuit against Manitowoc County. As that suit is still pending two years later, a young woman disappears after meeting with Avery.
--:-- John Bickley: So Teresa Halbach was a 25-year-old photographer and working for Auto Trader Magazine, and she was taking pictures of cars and things like that.
--:-- Megan Basham: So she goes out to meet with Stephen Avery, and she's never seen again. Her car is found hidden in his junkyard, his blood is in the vehicle, and then her key is found inside Avery's house.
--:-- John Bickley: So the premise of the Netflix series is really whether this police department set out to deliberately frame him and see him wrongfully convicted a second time to avoid paying out for that first wrongful conviction.
--:-- Megan Basham: And the way the documentary presented his story left many, many people believing that they had.
--:-- John Bickley: One of the really big moments from the series involved his blood found in her car. Netflix strongly suggests that it was planted from a vial of Avery's blood that was collected during the investigation of that first case.
--:-- Megan Basham: And you can hear in this clip the sort of reaction that that got.
--:-- John Bickley: Right in the center of the top of the tube is a little tiny hole. Once they showed it to you you like oh my God they planted this blood
--:-- Megan Basham: Certainly when they came to the big reveal with the blood vial you know I thought this is just astounding Some officer went into that vial, opened it up, took a sample of Stephen Avery's blood and planted it in the RAV4.
--:-- John Bickley: I felt like, oh geez, can it get any worse than this?
--:-- Megan Basham: So another part of the question was Avery's nephew, Brendan Dassey, who was developmentally disabled.
--:-- John Bickley: Well, he admitted to being an accomplice in Teresa Halbach's murder, but there were big questions about whether his confession was coerced and really, you know, whether he understood what he was saying.
--:-- Megan Basham: Brendan, what else did you guys do? Come on. What did he mean you do, Brendan?
--:-- John Bickley: You see how they interrogate him, and then all the facts that come out, how they feed him everything.
--:-- Megan Basham: That's all I can remember. All right, I'm just going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head?
--:-- John Bickley: He did. Who shot her?
--:-- Megan Basham: Oh, he did. Because they were telling you, just tell the truth and you'll be fine.
--:-- John Bickley: Of course a kid's going to say that.
--:-- Megan Basham: Now, Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- John Bickley: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- Megan Basham: They showed a very small portion of his testimony. And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to read, and she'd be reading it anyway.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, but that was the wrong way to do it.
--:-- Megan Basham: So as Convicting a Murderer goes back over some of this material, you began to see that the Making a Murderer docuseries really presented a very misleading version of events sometimes.
--:-- John Bickley: And not just by leaving out pieces of information, but also by editing statements in a way that I'll just say as a journalist really did shock me
--:-- Megan Basham: There were things like removing the middle section of a sentence to reframe the context
--:-- John Bickley: And then you also see that in testimony that Stephen Avery cousin gave
--:-- Megan Basham: Between the time that he was exonerated and then charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he got angry with his cousin for bad-mouthing him around town.
--:-- John Bickley: And he ran her off the road and then tried to force her into his car at gunpoint.
--:-- Megan Basham: Key parts of her statement about that incident were left out.
--:-- John Bickley: So Owens concedes that Dassey is a sympathetic figure for most people who only saw a part of his confession in making a murderer.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think Netflix was probably the most successful in making people believe that he was just completely innocent.
--:-- John Bickley: They showed a very small portion of his testimony.
--:-- Megan Basham: And I think when you see more of Brendan Dassey's testimony, you will really realize the scale and the scope of what happened to Teresa Hallback on the night that she was murdered and the days following it.
--:-- John Bickley: And I think that will be the biggest piece because I know that people that do believe that Stephen Avery is guilty still think that Brendan Dassey, his nephew, was not guilty.
--:-- Megan Basham: So convicting a murderer really examines how the Netflix series left out some key elements of this story.
--:-- John Bickley: They implied, for instance, that though Avery had a history of petty burglaries, he was not a violent man.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, here you see new evidence that very clearly calls that into question.
--:-- John Bickley: Things like letters he wrote to his five children from prison in which he actually threatened to kill his wife.
--:-- Megan Basham: Manitowoc County Judge Fred Hazelwood terminated Avery's rights to visit with his children in prison in 1993. since Avery was describing in detail his plans to use a gun to murder their mother.
--:-- John Bickley: There was some testimony that you were telling the kids you were going to kill her with a gun and do all this.
--:-- Megan Basham: Did you do that?
--:-- John Bickley: I don't know what I said. I don't remember what's on it now.
--:-- Megan Basham: He also sent them photographs depicting how he planned to sexually mutilate her.
--:-- John Bickley: You don't remember telling the kids that you were going to cut out their mom's private parts and kill her?
--:-- Megan Basham: I can't. You know, if they were young, I figured they didn't know how to
