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--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire, I'm John Bickley, editor-in-chief of the Daily Wire, and I'm joined today by Georgia Howe. It's Monday, September 30th.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's right, John. Today, we have a special guest, Seth Dillon, CEO of the Babylon Bee, and Kristen Wagoner, president of the Alliance Defending Freedom. They've just filed a lawsuit against the state of California over its new "deepfake" laws.
--:-- John Bickley: That's right, Georgia. California's Gavin Newsom signed the first-in-the-nation deepfake laws, just weeks after he said a Kamala Harris online parody video should be illegal. While the Democrat governor's office is celebrating the laws as a safeguard against deceptive digital content, conservatives say this is a massive violation of free speech.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's right, John. And now, one prominent conservative content creator, the Babylon Bee, with the help of the Alliance Defending Freedom, is suing the state of California for what they say is its unconstitutional and ultimately dangerous censorship laws.
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Speaking confidently] Well, I guess a number of things. We started out The Bee as a comedy site. Its mission was just to tell jokes on the internet. And over the course of the last several years, you know, the bee's been around for eight years now, if you can believe that. And for most of that time, for the last six years, we've been battling either big tech censorship or state laws that clamp down on speech with either rules against misinformation, rules against hate speech, laws now that we see popping up trying to prevent parody, the use of deep fakes, memes, things of that nature.
--:-- John Bickley: [Speaking to Seth] So, Seth, why did you feel compelled to bring this lawsuit?
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Continuing] So we're concerned about freedom of speech first and foremost, but we're also concerned about our business. You know, when you're doing satire, when you're parodying people, you're adopting their voice, you're adopting their likeness. Satirical articles are meant to look like real articles. And that's the hook that pulls you in and then you hit them with a punchline.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [Speaking to Seth] And that's the problem with this law, right? It requires you to put disclaimers to let people know that it's parody.
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Agreeing] Exactly. And that completely stifles and kills the joke. It disrupts our ability to do what we do the way that we do it in the voice that we do it in. And so that's very problematic for us.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Speaking confidently] These laws that were passed in California target core political speech. These laws were passed by politicians to protect politicians from speech that they don't like.
--:-- John Bickley: [Speaking to Kristen] Can you lay out the legal case that you're bringing against California?
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Continuing] The first law is used to punish speakers for posting political commentary online that the government decides is materially deceptive content. And it is targeting that content that affects candidates or election officials and what they say might harm their chances of getting elected.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [Speaking to Kristen] So, this isn't just for companies. This is also for individuals. This applies to individual Americans posting online content, even reposting content.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Agreeing] Yes, that's correct. So this really opens the floodgates legally. We've seen censorship writ large in Western democracies now outside of the United States. And I think it's important for Americans to understand that the United States is the last country in the Western world among Western democracies to protect free speech, to protect core political speech.
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Speaking to Kristen] And how much of a burden is this to the platforms? This is a threat to the platforms as well if the state decides they're not properly policing content, correct?
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Agreeing] It's absolutely a threat. It is a roadmap to widespread censorship. There's no question about it, and there is no law that has gone this far.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [Speaking to Kristen] Now, obviously, Elon Musk's platform X is fighting against any censorship laws. Are any other platforms actually pushing back on these new laws?
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Agreeing] Yes, I believe there will be more platforms that will push back on it. One of the problems with this law is that it's so vague. In certain parts, it's even hard to know what it says.
--:-- John Bickley: [Speaking to Kristen] Now, you brought up fact-checking. I know this is something that Seth has talked about a lot. And here at The Daily Wire, we've dealt with this firsthand. We currently have a lawsuit related to the Biden administration's collusion with fact-checking groups, in fact.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Speaking confidently] The legal case is that the free speech clause of the First Amendment in the United States Constitution, as well as a number of state constitutions, protect our right as Americans to be able to decide what is true, what is false, what is worthy of being said in the public square.
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Speaking to Kristen] Babylon Bee is obviously at the center of this. I've seen this play out writ large in the last few years. It's funny you mentioned COVID. That whole scenario seemed like satire to me as I was watching it and then watching the excuses they were making for the censorship.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Speaking to Seth] We've seen government censorship here in the United States play out, first of all, in cases like Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cake Shop, where laws have been weaponized to force people to say things that they don't believe and to face severe punishment in some states, even jail time for declining to speak messages about marriage and other topics.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [Speaking to Kristen] So, this is an all-out assault by government officials. The World Economic Forum right now, says its greatest threat is misinformation and disinformation. And when the public hears those words, they should understand what that means is government censorship.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Agreeing] Someone who wants control will first take away the right to speak freely. And our First Amendment says it is up to the American people to decide and to think for themselves in the context, particularly of political debates.
--:-- John Bickley: [Speaking to Kristen] One last thing on this that we haven't even touched on is that this California law actually sets up social media platforms to be snitches on people. A second law actually requires these platforms to accept complaints and then to censor speech even when they don't want to censor speech.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Agreeing] So it is Orwellian in nature. So this California law turns Americans against each other, sort of weaponizing them with this misinformation clause.
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Speaking to Kristen] Now, this case focuses on satire. Is this an original case in some ways? How much has satire played into the legal history of censorship laws?
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Speaking confidently] We have not seen any law like this in the United States. Now, perhaps there's some that I'm unaware of, but we've seen no similar law where it has been targeted in this way through a state law.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [Speaking to Kristen] What's next for this case? And do you think these laws have any chance of standing up in court?
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Speaking confidently] We will be filing the case that will go up through the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. We will be asking the trial court for preliminary injunction and then a permanent injunction to stop these laws from going into effect.
--:-- John Bickley: [Speaking to Kristen] It's difficult to say what will happen in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals up through the federal system in California. But I do believe I am optimistic that the United States Supreme Court will stand up for free speech.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [Speaking to Kristen] Well, all of us, Seth and Kristen, thank you so much for joining us.
--:-- Kristen Wagoner: [Speaking to Georgia] Thank you.
--:-- Seth Dillon: [Speaking to Georgia] Thank you.
--:-- John Bickley: [Speaking to Georgia] That was Seth Dillon, CEO of the Babylon Bee and Kristen Wagoner, president of the Alliance Defending Freedom. And this has been an exclusive edition of Morning Wire.
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