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--:-- Georgia Howe: The U.S., Egypt, and Qatar have begun negotiations to create a Palestinian state without any input from Israel. The rumored goal date for such an agreement could be as early as March 10th. In this episode, we speak to a Middle East expert who says the plan is deeply flawed and could send the wrong foreign policy message to aggressors around the globe. I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire editor-in-chief John Bickley. It's Saturday, February 17th, and this is an extra edition of Morning Wire.
--:-- John Bickley: Joining us to discuss the negotiations to create a Palestinian state is Aryeh Lightstone. He's the former senior advisor to the U.S. ambassador to Israel. Aryeh, thanks so much for coming on.
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Thank you for having me.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So there was a recent article in the Washington Post that reported that the U.S. and several Middle Eastern nations are negotiating the creation of a Palestinian state. And that their plan could be announced as soon as the next few weeks, ideally before Ramadan, which begins on March 10th. What sort of solution are they proposing?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Well, I think they're proposing imposing a solution that likely is not acceptable to any of the parties. They're going to propose the establishment of a Palestinian state where they themselves will pick who the leaders of said state are. And the biggest debate, at least, that's being reported amongst those various different state actors, whether Hamas will have an active or passive role in that new reimagined Palestinian leadership group.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So how would that even work? Which entities would impose this plan? And who has the authority to do something like this?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Well, now you've asked the bazillion dollar question because nobody has the authority to do this. Nobody has the ability to do this, but that doesn't seem to bother anybody. So the same way we've imagined a new legal state for Palestinians, we're going to try to wish cast a new state governance for them at the same time. It's foolhardy. And even more foolhardy is to say that they want that to be done before Ramadan, because that's an artificial deadline for that to happen, ignoring that there's a hot war in the south of Israel right now in Gaza. And there's a almost hot war in the north right now with Lebanon.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, where would the proposed boundaries of this new state be? Would this be the same area that Palestinians are currently living in or would it encroach on other states?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Yeah, even more preposterous the proposal will be that Israel will need to evacuate parts of Judea and Samaria or the West Bank and possibly parts of Jerusalem as well. So this is a complete and total non-starter, not to mention the fact that it would be a direct reward for starting a war with receiving a state. Trying to square that circle is not quite possible.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, you've already sort of alluded to this, but how would this be enforced? Where would the infrastructure supposedly come from for this new government? Who would administer the new government? And if it were not administered, who would enforce some correction?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Yeah, so that becomes how do you technically complete this thing that's impossible? So I can imagine the setting up of a government in exile that would sort of have all the machinations of a government. They'd get to give big speeches at the United Nations. They'd be welcomed on the White House lawn. They'd be feted across Arab capitals across the Middle East. And they'd in theory have some form of show votes and resolutions that may or may not make sense, but they won't have any ability to manage or to run or to be voted for or to articulate any of their messages with inside Judea and Samaria, the West Bank or Gaza, because that is under Israel's full military control. And there is no universe where they give that up.
--:-- Georgia Howe: If this new state is a non-starter, why are so many leaders so encouraged by this idea? What's the pro case that can be made?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: The pro case is that the United States of America has so many incredible tools in its toolkit that there is a world where they can present enough positive opportunities on one side, carrots, if you will, and a big enough stick on the other side. So, for example, I can imagine a world where the United States of America says, Israel, we will not rearm you any further, regardless of whether you pay for it. I can see whether they would say not only are we not going to rearm you, but we're going to effectuate a boycott on the state of Israel by banning our airlines from flying to you further. We are not going to have any more vetoes at the United Nations. And not only that, we will actually take you to the International Criminal Court or the International Criminal Court of Justice. The tools that the United States of America has in order to push our allies to do something are many. So there is a way to force Israel into this direction. But the message that would send to the entire rest of the free world that relies upon the United States of America would be run for the hills. We are not an ally to be trusted. We are not an ally to be relied upon. And frankly, we're an ally to be feared.
--:-- Georgia Howe: What do you think Taiwan is going to learn from this lesson? What do you think the Ukrainians are going to learn from this lesson?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Well, I mean, it is you attack somebody, you murder somebody, you rape them, you behead the babies and you get a state. It's insane.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, President Biden alluded to this plan on the campaign trail in Michigan. What did you make of that?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Yeah, I mean, the announcements that the Biden administration made while they were going to Dearborn, Michigan, were transparent. They went and they said that they are going to sanction Israeli settlers which in and of itself is a gross overreach on the day that they went to Dearborn. They said they would unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state. I want to be very clear about this. I have no issue with a president catering towards their voters. That's what's supposed to happen in democracy. I have a problem with voters in the United States of America choosing the side of a terror organization that beheads babies and rapes women.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, the Israeli defense minister gave a press conference this week saying that they have credible information that Hamas is holding hostages in hospitals and that a significant portion of hospitals are being used for terror activities. What do we know about that?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Well, we know that Gaza has more hospitals per capita than any other Arab nation, not just in the world, but in the history of the world. We also know, and I was just with a combat soldier today for lunch, who's been in Gaza, I don't know, 110 out of the last 125 days. And he showed me pictures of what they found, not only in hospitals, but in schools and in kindergartens. And he told me that it is rare to find a public facility that does not have arms or does not have a facility of a terror cell. That's the rarity, to be able to find something like that. So the fact that Israel says that these things exist, the world is skeptical, and then Israel proves that it exists, this is no longer shocking.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, when you say they have arms, what do you mean?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: The picture that sticks out in my mind was on a child's bed who has the same Winnie the Pooh bed cover that my kids have. So for a four or five year old and on top of that bed or actually in the under compartment where the trundle bed comes out of their Kalashnikov rifles, grenades and landmines under the bed with the Winnie the Pooh sheets. And that's a house. We've all seen the picture, and if you haven't, you should see it. Under UNRWA's headquarters, the main power line goes not to the main floor and not to the basement, but there's a panel that goes beneath the basement, which is where the cyber headquarters for Hamas was. It's impossible for UNRWA not to realize that more than half of the power for their main headquarter building was being pulled to tunnels underneath it. It's just ridiculous to assume that people are that bad at their job. They are not bad at their job. They are intentionally supporting terrorism.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, turning to the hostage negotiations, where do those stand right now? There is enormous push from the West, including the United States of America, to bring this war to an end as soon as possible. They know that the only way to do that is to return the hostages. The big question is, will it be a requirement for the permanent end of the war before the war is completed from Israel's missions? And will there be a requirement to take Israeli soldiers outside of Gaza? If both of those remain requirements, it seems clear that the Netanyahu government will have those as non-starters. So Hamas is trying to negotiate the return of hostages in order to live another day. And Israel is saying you cannot live another day. We will give you something else in exchange for those hostages. Does it matter?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: No.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Do you think that Biden and Netanyahu have a rocky relationship? Would the dynamic be different if Biden was dealing with someone else in Israel's coalition government?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: No. In this particular case, there's no daylight in between what the right, the left or the center wants. People like to throw out the name Netanyahu like it's a curse word, as though if it was magically Yair Lapid or Benny Gantz sitting there, that it would be, you know, rainbows and unicorns. There's a war. There's a terror organization on the border with Israel. This isn't Iraq and Afghanistan. This is 500 meters from people's homes. And this is just the south. If you look at Lebanon, the north, there was a missile that hit a building yesterday that killed one person and injured nine other people. It's not like once you resolve Gaza, you're now done and everybody can go back to work in a regular way. Israel is in a really bad neighborhood with people who are dedicated to destroying it. And it's not going to end tomorrow. And there's this wish casting going on from the Biden administration that, hey, hey, this is politically inopportune for us from a timing perspective. Can you knock it off? And Israel doesn't have the ability to stop the war now without completing its mission.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Last question. If you were advising President Biden, what advice would you give him?
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: If President Biden wanted to listen to my advice, the number one thing he can do to save as many Palestinians and Israelis as possible is to give Israel as much support as it needs to in order to complete the war and to lean as hard as possible on Egypt to open up its borders for a temporary place for those people who do not want to be members of the combatants in Gaza to be able to go away for three to four months. All of Gaza will need to be rebuilt. There's no reason why not a single Arab country has opened up their doors other than the United Arab Emirates for any of these poor Palestinians who want to escape. If you look at the hypocrisy of the moment, they yell at Israel for fighting where there are a lot of civilians, but not an Arab country has opened up their door to any of these civilians. So it makes it a glorious punching bag. It's the job of the United States of America to call out the hypocrisy and to solve these problems. Instead, we've bought into this full narrative. And because this narrative is pervasive, President Biden is now fighting against his base. He can solve this if he speaks with moral clarity.
--:-- Georgia Howe: All right. Well, Aryeh, thank you so much for coming on and making time to talk to us today.
--:-- Aryeh Lightstone: Thank you for having me.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That was Aryeh Lightstone, former senior advisor to the U.S. Ambassador to Israel. And this has been an extra edition of Morning Wire.
