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--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to this Sunday edition of Morning Wire. I'm John Bickley, and I'm here with Georgia Howe.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks for waking up with us, everyone. It's March 5th.
--:-- John Bickley: Today, we're going to talk about the faith-based film Jesus Revolution, which stunned Hollywood by more than doubling expected revenues at the box office in its opening weekend.
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--:-- John Bickley: The film has even managed to beat Marvel's latest blockbuster Ant-Man in terms of earnings per theater over several days last week.
--:-- Georgia Howe: We recently aired a segment on Jesus Revolution, and now we're going to hear Megan Basham's complete interview with director John Irwin.
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--:-- John Bickley: John Irwin is the writer and co-director of Jesus Revolution.
--:-- Megan Basham: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- John Bickley: So, I keep seeing some headlines over the weekend about the surprising success of this film. And that kind of makes me chuckle because I have written a number of stories myself on the success of faith-themed films, yours in particular.
--:-- Megan Basham: So I guess I want to start out by asking, why do you think everyone keeps being surprised by this? Why does Hollywood have short-term memory loss over and over again?
--:-- John Irwin: I think it's because of COVID. And, you know, there's been a massive question mark of what kind of films work in theaters after this gigantic disruption.
--:-- Megan Basham: And so this is such a huge win, not only for this movie, but for this kind of movie. It's such a statement that says our audience is still, you know, hungry and eager if the product is right and ready to go to the theater.
--:-- John Irwin: And this is really the first faith film theatrical besides Fathom events like The Chosen that has really overperformed.
--:-- Megan Basham: And what I love about it just hanging out in a lot of theaters across the country is people are lingering in the lobbies and talking to each other. It's like we haven't had this kind of community event in a theater in a very long time.
--:-- John Irwin: Well, you know it funny because you mentioned people getting out to theaters and yes you see that as a faith film but also there was sort of this perception that only the really big like superhero stories or massive event stories were going to draw people out.
--:-- Megan Basham: That's right. That was the win of the weekend between Cocaine Bear and Jesus Revolution as you saw.
--:-- John Irwin: I just like hearing this again. Counter-programming work, you know, yeah.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think it was funny, Brad Paisley posted a meme, you know, with like Jonathan healing this cocaine bear or whatever, it was hysterical.
--:-- John Irwin: And when an audience that's underserved and underseen, you know, when they feel seen by a piece of content and embraced, they'll show up, you know, and they'll show up in large numbers.
--:-- Megan Basham: So I'm just grateful to Lionsgate that they let us make a movie called Jesus Revolution. You know, that's not something a movie studio would typically do.
--:-- John Irwin: And then putting it out wide in theaters in this environment is a risk a movie studio typically wouldn't take.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, let's talk about that storyline then. Obviously, it's very compelling. We seem to be in as much, if not more, divided culture now.
--:-- John Irwin: I mean, I'm sure you're getting this question all over, but what lessons do you hope people draw from then for today?
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, that's what drew me to the project. I bought this magazine in 2015 on eBay, this Time magazine, and just had this psychedelic Jesus, and it said the Jesus Revolution.
--:-- John Irwin: And it was four or five years after there was a cover of Time with no picture. The first cover of Time with no picture, and it just had a black background, red text, and it said, Is God dead?
--:-- Megan Basham: So he had this very bleak assessment, and then this incredible cover, and I was like, what happened between these two magazines?
--:-- John Irwin: And I'm uncontrollably curious by nature, so I just started researching it. And I read this article and it was such a beautiful, hopeful, optimistic article in Time Magazine about this spiritual awakening sweeping the country.
--:-- Megan Basham: I felt like you could feel on the page people being lifted out of despair. And there was a lot of fears and there was a lot of desperation was the key word that I found.
--:-- John Irwin: And so the article gave me great hope that, OK, we've been here before. And when your pain outweighs your fear, change can begin.
--:-- Megan Basham: And sometimes it's good to get to a moment of desperation and say, where are the answers?
--:-- John Irwin: And that's certainly what happened then, and I think that's what's beginning to happen today as you see all these revivals break out at college campuses.
--:-- Megan Basham: There's just a desperation for God, and so the more I researched the film the more I just felt like this story really did offer some answers to the problems that we're facing today.
--:-- John Irwin: So even then, it was this beautiful, funny, heartwarming, meaningful story from a wonderful decade to create on film. It really was prescriptive for today.
--:-- Megan Basham: And it gave me great hope that, man, this could happen again. The table is sort of set for something like this to happen again.
--:-- John Irwin: So that's always why I wanted to make the movie. So to see 10 days before the movie, a revival at Asbury and all these things happen in the same auditorium that happened back then in 1970.
--:-- Megan Basham: It was mind-blowing to me. I just couldn't believe it.
--:-- John Irwin: And I just love that people love the movie and I love that it's a clear indicator that the Heartland audience, the Faith audience, is viable and back and going to more than just superhero films.
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, let's talk about that storyline then. Obviously, it's very compelling. We seem to be in as much, if not more, divided culture now.
--:-- John Irwin: That is a good question. I would say that the Asbury revival is a sign of hope for all of us and is absolutely legitimate and real.
--:-- Megan Basham: My wife Beth and I, we were up in Kentucky anyway, working on another film. And it was like day two of the service at Asbury.
--:-- John Irwin: This was very, very early. And we were 60 miles away and I saw a social media post. I'm like, that's why we made this movie.
--:-- Megan Basham: And then a pastor friend of mine had driven over. So I'm like, let's just go.
--:-- John Irwin: And it was a time where you just walk in, you know, and we just sat there and listened, you know, which, by the way, we should take the time to listen to Gen Z.
--:-- Megan Basham: I think they have a spectacular opinion and incredible insight. And they have a very similar spiritual awakening happening in their generation that was happening in the generation of this movie.
--:-- John Irwin: Now, when spiritual awakening happens, get ready to be disrupted, you know, because there was cultural upheaval in the 60s because a generation was suddenly awake saying this is not something's missing and they had to go to a lot of the wrong places before they found the right place.
--:-- Megan Basham: That's why back then they said Jesus is the real drug as in I finally found a thing that works.
--:-- John Irwin: Of course, theology matters, but we've got to capture the hearts of people. I mean God's got to recapture our own heart.
--:-- Megan Basham: Like if you don't have that, you don't have anything.
--:-- John Irwin: And so I think I would just dare us all to be optimistic again and to believe that maybe it's not all over and God can show up in our time and in our society and in this generation in a big way like he did before.
--:-- Megan Basham: Because I think in my research, the Jesus movement was a lot like the movie and a lot like the Asbury revival. If your heart's open to it and you're willing to step past a certain cynical mindset, you experience it.
--:-- John Irwin: If your heart's not open to it, it passes you by. And that was certainly the Jesus movement.
--:-- Megan Basham: The churches and the leaders that were open to it, that were open to what God was doing, even though it was so against their thinking of like hippies can't come to church.
--:-- John Irwin: That's not, you know, their path to church is to go home and get a job and take a bath and cut their hair and rejoin society. And then maybe they can come to church.
--:-- Megan Basham: So it was very, it was challenging the perceptions of the day, but that's where God was working.
--:-- John Irwin: And sometimes I think we get in a mindset that is self-fulfilling negativity, you know, and I think it's time to be optimistic again and be hopeful and just celebrate what God's doing.
--:-- Megan Basham: Will some of them get theology right and wrong? Sure. But just the fact that it's happening is a reason to celebrate.
--:-- John Irwin: And let's do that first before we criticize something that we don't really even understand.
--:-- Megan Basham: I'm also grateful that, you know, I was talking to Dallas Jenkins, the creator of The Chosen, and I was like, we did not get in a room and plan this.
--:-- John Irwin: Like, okay, Dallas, you anchor the first week of the month, and then we'll make sure some Super Bowl commercials are bought. And then, you know, they have the name of Jesus in it, And then we'll do the end of the month and we'll schedule a revival in between.
--:-- Megan Basham: Like nobody, we didn't plan this February to be like the month of Jesus, you know.
--:-- John Irwin: But one of the reviews I saw said I guess Jesus is making a comeback. You know, I thought that was really cool.
--:-- Megan Basham: All right, well maybe last question then. When you look at the Jesus revolution, what is the impact that you still see today?
--:-- John Irwin: I actually feel, and there's several historians that feel that it's actually, at least by the numbers, the greatest spiritual awakening in American history.
--:-- Megan Basham: But some stats that are definitive, you know, all of Christian music as we know it today came from that movement.
--:-- John Irwin: We portray it in the film when Chuck Smith put Love Song on the stage. That was one of the first beginnings of what is this entire industry of music that we all listen to today.
--:-- Megan Basham: Many, many, many leaders in the church today, like Greg Laurie and all the work that he's accomplished, came from the Jesus movement.
--:-- John Irwin: What I really hope, if I had a single hope for this movie, is that 1972, at least for the largest denomination in America, the Southern Baptists, is the most recorded baptisms in a single year in American history, which was the culminating year of the Jesus movement.
--:-- Megan Basham: The same year as Explo 72, which we dramatized at the end of the film. My parents were at Explo 72, and their lives were changed.
--:-- John Irwin: Dallas Jenkins' parents were at Explo 72, as well as his wife Amanda's parents. It's the reason he's named Dallas, because his dad was so moved, he named him Dallas.
--:-- Megan Basham: So what I would love to see is for that record to be beaten and for there to be more baptisms in a year, this year or next year, than there were in 1972.
--:-- John Irwin: I just think we've lost our way and we've lost connection with a generation. And my daughter's 14, so these things are very top of mind to me.
--:-- Megan Basham: And that's why we made the movie specifically to be enjoyed by several generations.
--:-- John Irwin: So much of entertainment now rips our families apart. So you're in your house or wherever, and everyone's got their own screen, and it's like being alone in your own home.
--:-- Megan Basham: Makes me as a father feel like Jerry Maguire when he's like, I'm cloaked in failure.
--:-- John Irwin: So we try to combat that. We try to really architect the films to be these multi-generational experiences.
--:-- Megan Basham: And so that's the thing I love the most, is that it's one of those rare pieces of entertainment that is pulling generations together.
--:-- John Irwin: And that's just so cool to see and otherwise it's my favorite film ever to watch with an audience.
--:-- Megan Basham: I've just never had an experience like this in a theater typically. I don't watch the movies after they're done because all I see is the mistakes.
--:-- John Irwin: But this one I just love sitting in an audience with this movie. It's just they laugh they cry they cheer during the film it's so cool.
--:-- Megan Basham: And there's something beyond the movie going on I can't really fully articulate it but there's just something in the room you know.
--:-- John Irwin: There's just a feeling and that's the same feeling I felt at uh at Asbury uh in that chapel.
--:-- Megan Basham: So you know my hope is that we can see revival in America. I love that's why I wanted to call it Jesus Revolution.
--:-- John Irwin: I love the word revolution first of all love is in the word backwards and then secondly um it's a cyclical word you know it's like we need another revolution of this we need another cycle we need a return.
--:-- Megan Basham: And we've had revivals in America about every 50 years, all the way back to the Great Awakening.
--:-- John Irwin: So I don't even think there is a country without spiritual awakening, you know?
--:-- Megan Basham: And we need one again. And hope is not lost. It is not.
--:-- John Irwin: Just thank you so much. And we really appreciate your taking the time to talk with us.
--:-- Megan Basham: Oh, well, hey, I say hello to everybody. Love Jeremy, love Jeremy. Appreciate you guys very much.
--:-- John Bickley: That was John Irwin, writer and co-director of the hit film, Jesus Revolution. And this has been a Sunday edition of Morning Wire.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks for listening to this Sunday edition of Morning Wire. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on social media for more news and updates.
--:-- John Bickley: And if you're not already, be sure to sign up for our daily newsletter to get the latest news and updates delivered right to your inbox.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And if you're looking for a way to protect your identity and your family's financial future, be sure to check out LifeLock.com slash podcast for 40% off your first year.
--:-- John Bickley: And don't forget to create your last will and testament with Epic Will. Use the code WIRE at checkout to get 10% off.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you tomorrow.
--:-- John Bickley: Goodnight.
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