--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire, I'm John Bickley, Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Wire, and I'm here with Georgia Howe. Today, we're joined by a very special guest, Mike Rowe, founder of the Mike Rowe Works Foundation. Mike, thanks so much for joining us.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Thank you, John. It's great to be here.
--:-- John Bickley: Mike Rowe became a household name as host of the widely popular show Dirty Jobs, and he's since turned that success into a means of helping Americans through his charitable organization. Since its founding 15 years ago, the Mike Rowe Works Foundation has given millions of dollars to Americans seeking blue-collar jobs through its work ethic scholarship.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's right, John. And Mike has dedicated his talents to helping promote the pursuit of an honest day's work. In this episode, we talk with Mike about his charitable work and the societal trends driving him to do it.
--:-- John Bickley: So, Mike, the Mike Rowe Works Foundation turned 15 this year. What were your goals when you first created it back in 2008?
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, that's a mixed bag. You know, it was 2008. The country was headed into a recession. And there was a giant conversation going on in the headlines about the number of people who were unemployed. And on Dirty Jobs, everywhere we went, we were seeing help wanted signs. So it seemed like there might have been another narrative going on in the country, not just the number of people who weren't working, but the number of jobs that were unfilled, which seemed counterintuitive and is a classic symptom of a skills gap of some kind.
--:-- John Bickley: That's fascinating. And you thought maybe there might be something more going on.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, I thought maybe there might be something more going on. And MicroWorks really started as a PR campaign to draw some attention to what were at the time 2.3 million open positions, most of which didn't require a four-year degree, but training. And these were good jobs. They just weren't getting any love. And that lined up pretty closely with the ethos of Dirty Jobs. And so MicroWorks really started as a sort of a self-appointed de facto PR campaign for opportunity.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's really interesting. And it evolved over the years into a trade resource center.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, it was actually pretty great to see it happen. Fans of Dirty Jobs built an online destination where thousands of jobs were listed, like a big jobs board juxtaposed over zip codes and whatnot, with all kinds of instructions and hints about what to do to explore a career in welding or steam fitting or pipe fitting or electric or heating and air conditioning all over different parts of the country.
--:-- John Bickley: And that's kind of where I thought it would stay, but it morphed into a scholarship fund after that.
--:-- Mike Rowe: So flashing forward, we've awarded about $7.5 or $8 million in work ethic scholarships. We target those scholarships specifically to kids who don't want to pursue a four-year degree, but rather want to learn a skill, ideally in the trades. But we're pretty flexible when it comes to helping close that gap.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Well, we've also seen some statistics showing that a lot of young men are now opting out of college. Are we also seeing a resurgence in interest for some of these jobs, or is there still a big skills gap?
--:-- Mike Rowe: I sure hope so. I mean, I'm under no illusions. I don't think my foundation is going to close the skills gap, although I did say early on that that was a goal. The bigger goal, really, is just to make a persuasive case for the opportunities that do exist, which, by the way, number today closer to 11 million than 2.3 million.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a huge number. And you've seen the statistics, I'm sure, about young men opting out of college.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, I've seen people start to articulate their suspicion that a four-year degree is the best path for the most people. And that's important to me because I firmly believe that's the case. I've got no inherent objections to a four-year degree, obviously. I hope it's obvious. But I do take exception to our tendency to paint with such a broad brush and to imply, as we have for the last 40 years, that if you don't get a four-year degree, you're going to wind up with some vocational consolation prize.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's a really interesting point. And what do you think is the biggest misconception about the trades?
--:-- Mike Rowe: The real thing that we're trying to do and have always tried to do is confront the stigmas and the stereotypes and the myths and the misperceptions that keep so many people from exploring careers in the trades.
--:-- John Bickley: And you've seen some success with that, I'm sure.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, happily today, after 10 years of scholarships, I'm able to circle back and talk to men and women who we assisted a few years back and who have since gone on to prosper in the trades. And their stories are incredible.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And what are the numbers in terms of income potential in comparison between skill trades and these four-year college earned placements in businesses?
--:-- Mike Rowe: There is. And I'm suspicious of all of them. All of those comparisons require big verticals and big numbers and, you know, big demographic and geographic considerations. And I was on some show, I forget which one, one of the news networks the other day. And somebody said, look, here are the statistics. What's your reaction to this? And they said, if you have a college degree, you make this. If you have some college, you make this. And if all you have is high school, you make this. So what's up with your tirade against four-year education?
--:-- John Bickley: That's a great question. And what's your response to that?
--:-- Mike Rowe: Well, A, it's just too damn expensive. $1.7 trillion in student loans on the books right now is just no joke. And I think people are starting to realize a four-year degree at any price is not a bargain. It's an expense. But more importantly, I said, where on your comparative analysis do you have somebody who got out of high school, mastered a skill, either through an apprentice program or through a trade school, and then went to work with some entrepreneurial sense and began to build a business?
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's a really important point. And what are some trades that you anticipate are going to be in hot demand over the next 10 years?
--:-- Mike Rowe: I can't think of anything in the construction trades that isn't going to pay a great return. I mention welding a lot because it's sort of like the gateway vocation. You know, so many people that I've assisted have gone on to have great careers in welding, but so many others have wound up welding and then getting into the plumbing field and then getting into the pipe fitting field and then electric.
--:-- John Bickley: That makes sense. And what about linemen? Are they in high demand?
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, the need for electricians is going to be really acute in the next 10 years, five years probably, maybe even less than that. Linemen in particular are in crazy high demand.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And what about healthcare? Is that a field that's going to be in high demand?
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, big broad field, don't need a four-year degree. People are doing really well in that.
--:-- John Bickley: And do you think AI is going to disrupt the trades in any way?
--:-- Mike Rowe: I don't think you're going to see the robot plumber anytime soon. And I don't think AI is going to have a whole lot to do with whether or not the lights come on when you flick the switch or the poop goes away when you flush the toilet.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's reassuring to hear. And what about the trend of young men opting out of work? What do you think is driving that?
--:-- Mike Rowe: Well, I'm not a social anthropologist, but I know one. Nick Eberstadt wrote the book on the subject called Men Without Work. It came out in 2015, and I read it right away because, you know, it's always nice when an expert says things that line up with the stuff you've been mouthing off about for a decade.
--:-- John Bickley: And what did you learn from that book?
--:-- Mike Rowe: The studies and all of the stats seem to indicate there was, in fact, a war on work, which I had sort of theorized from the start. Not a hot war, but, you know, the stigmas, the stereotypes, just the general pushing, you know, against those jobs.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's a really interesting point. And what do you think is the solution to that?
--:-- Mike Rowe: Well, our work ethic scholarship program is not much different than it was when we started. And we talk a lot about those qualities because they're not inherently present in everyone. And we're looking for the ones who have them.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a great point. And what do you think is the key to getting people to value work again?
--:-- Mike Rowe: I think it's just telling stories. That's why I get a little hinky when we start to talk about stats and figures. They're important, but they're not a set of numbers, a column of numbers. We just have a tendency to default to something actuarial. When in fact, if you really want to confront the stigmas and the stereotypes, you have to introduce people to other people and find a persuasive way to get those stories out there.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's a really great point. And I think that's why your show, Dirty Jobs, was so successful. You were able to tell the stories of people who were working with their hands.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Yeah, it was just a really great way to get people to see the value in the work that other people were doing. And I think that's what we're trying to do with the Mike Rowe Works Foundation.
--:-- John Bickley: Well, Mike, it's been great having you on the show.
--:-- Mike Rowe: Thank you, John. It's been great being here.
--:-- John Bickley: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this special edition of Morning Wire.
