--:-- [Sound of a podcast intro]
--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire, I'm John Bickley, and I'm here with my co-host Georgia Howe.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks for joining us, John.
--:-- John Bickley: Today's uncertain economy has more Americans turning to precious metals to protect their retirement savings. And right now, Birch Gold Group is making it easier than ever to secure your financial future with their special holiday offer. For a limited time, when you open or convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax-sheltered precious metals IRA with Birch Gold, you'll receive a free one-ounce American Silver Eagle for every $5,000 purchased. This is their most generous offer of the year, but it will not last long. Don't wait. This offer expires December 18th. Text WIRE to 989898 today.
--:-- [Sound of a transition]
--:-- John Bickley: The following is an interview conducted earlier this year. Joining us now to discuss so-called woke ideology and efforts to dismantle it is Eric Kaufman, author of the book The Third Awokening. Eric, thank you so much for joining us.
--:-- Eric Kaufman: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- John Bickley: So first, the title of your book is interesting. It's obviously loaded and suggests a pattern going back decades. The Third Awokening, what does that mean?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: Well, the book is a critical analysis of the woke phenomenon. I should say I have an analytical definition of woke. You know, I know it is used as a political apathetic, but the definition of woke I use is the making sacred of historically marginalized race, gender and sexual identity groups. That's the one sentence definition of woke.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So, Eric, can you explain what you mean by that definition?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: From that flows a fuzzy ideology which says that any inequality of outcome in desired social, income, social status, etc. between racial groups, between men and women is an outrage in a way. It's a violation of a sacred value. And the second proposition is anything that harms, whether physically or psychologically, members of these historically marginalized groups is also an outrage.
--:-- John Bickley: So, you've deliberately used a lot of religious language in your descriptions of woke in these movements. Why is that?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: I think there is a certain commonality between woke and religion, especially this distinction between the sacred and the profane, that if you cross a line, you are a heretic that must be cast out of the community and banished. Also, this idea of rituals, for example, like land acknowledgements and taking the knee in jazz hands. And there's a lot of performative public religion. It looks very much like public religion.
--:-- Georgia Howe: You've also mentioned the Moynihan Report, for those who are not familiar with it, can you explain what that found and why it was buried?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: So Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who was doing a report, he was Democrat at the time, he issued a report for the Johnson administration, and he sort of was raising the alarm about a fatherlessness rate, which had reached 25%, which sounds small by today's standards. But he said this was the harbinger of many problems. He was absolutely right. That rate is now 70%, by the way. And the white rate is higher than that.
--:-- John Bickley: Now, you've argued that the woke movement has eroded freedom, truth and excellence in our cultures. Could you provide some examples of how this has manifested in society?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: I mean, I think certainly in terms of truth, I talked about where research finds things that are inconvenient. You know, for example, the definition of male and female, you know, that offends trans people to say there are only two sexes. So that's an example of where it erodes truth.
--:-- Georgia Howe: There are people around who seem to say oh everything was just fine in the 2000s We didn have a problem And then all of a sudden this cancel culture came in because of the smartphone or something I accepting that things like smartphone and social media accelerate this but I arguing the problem lies with an ideology.
--:-- Eric Kaufman: And that ideology, in my view, is very much rooted in left liberalism and not so much in cultural Marxism.
--:-- John Bickley: The bush has been pruned back, but it remains, the structures remain largely in place for the next wave. For example, and we can see this in data if we take use of the word racism or sexism in American English language books. There was a spurt in the late 60s, a consolidation at a lower level. It peaked, came down a little bit, but then consolidated, second spurt in the late 80s, early 90s. Again, a consolidation at a higher level, and then a third spurt in the 2010s.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, in terms of wiping out some of the more destructive elements of this, do you feel there's a hope for that? And how would we go about doing that?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: We've got to do whatever works and we've got to do a both-and strategy. Because right now there's kind of a split between the people who say, like Chris Ruffo, we've got to use government power. And then the libertarian types, you know, like Greg Lukianoff or Yasha Mark, where it's all about persuasion and moral exhortation and lawfare. I think you've got to do both.
--:-- John Bickley: You've outlined a 12-point plan to roll back progressive extremism. What are some of the high points there?
--:-- Eric Kaufman: The first thing I would say is that the political right needs to upgrade the importance of culture. And particularly these culture war issues around critical race and gender ideology and free speech protection and political neutrality in schools, government bodies, for example, in the teaching of history.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks so much for talking with us. Very fascinating topic. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
--:-- John Bickley: That was Eric Kaufman, author of The Third Awokening, and this has been a special edition of Morning Wire.
--:-- [Sound of a transition]
--:-- John Bickley: Are you looking for the perfect holiday gift? Skip the grocery store chaos and mystery meat. From premium steaks to wild-caught seafood, Good Ranchers delivers 100% American meat right to your door. This holiday season, subscribe to any box and receive an incredible offer. Your choice of free chicken breast, salmon, bacon, or ground beef in every box for a year, plus $25 off with code WIRE. Whether you're planning your holiday feast or searching for the perfect gift, Good Ranchers has you covered with their new luxury gift boxes. From ribeyes to surf and turf, there's something for everyone on your list. Head over to goodranchers.com and use code WIRE today. Good Ranchers, American meat delivered.
