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--:-- Georgia Howe: It's October 8th, and this is your Sunday edition of Morning Wire. I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire editor-in-chief John Bickley.
--:-- John Bickley: Good morning, Georgia.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Good morning, John. For this episode, Daily Wire culture reporter Megan Basham examines the legal debate over transgender treatment for children and how medical experts and detransitioners are reacting.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: Megan, when the Sixth Circuit Court ruling came down about 10 days ago, a lot of conservatives were hailing it as a watershed moment. That included Daily Wire personality Matt Walsh, who was instrumental in getting that Tennessee law in place. Why do they view this particular ruling as a potential game changer?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, they were definitely celebrating. And I think in part that's because it came on the heels of that 11th Circuit Court decision in Alabama. So, so far we've had two different federal district judges place injunctions on these laws, and that's prevented them from going into effect. And then you've had two different circuit courts reverse those decisions.
--:-- John Bickley: [interrupting] Megan, can you explain what's so important about this decision?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, I think what's so important about the decision is that it may put these federal district judges who have been blocking these laws on notice that if they circumvent the people's representatives, that they are likely to get overturned. It's why the Sixth Circuit opinion is so important, not just because it allows my legislation, which will protect children, to go into effect, but it also sent a message to other federal district court judges across the country that they need to be wary.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] That's a great point, Megan. And I think it's also worth noting that the ACLU, which was one of the plaintiffs in this Tennessee case, took a very different sort of lesson from the court's decision. But they also seem to see it as an important moment in the national debate.
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, that's right. The ACLU called it a devastating ruling. So Chase Strangio, the ACLU's deputy director for transgender justice, said these laws don't actually represent the will of the people because the Republican-led legislatures are the result of gerrymandering and voter suppression.
--:-- John Bickley: [skeptical] But Megan, don't polls show that the majority of Americans back these laws?
--:-- Megan Basham: Well, yes, polls do consistently show that the majority of Americans back these laws. To give you just one example, one poll found that 78% of Americans are on the side of these bans.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that the ACLU is saying that the case was rushed, which is a problem they see in the shadow docket at the Supreme Court.
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, that's right. Strangio told the nonprofit news outlet Democracy Now that another problem was that the case was rushed. This is sort of akin to what we see in the shadow docket at the Supreme Court, where you're just getting these rushed opinions in the course of perhaps 24 hours or less in some instances, putting this decision from the district court on pause while the case is proceeding.
--:-- John Bickley: [interrupting] Megan, can you explain what's at stake here?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, I think what's at stake is the well-being of hundreds of trans adolescents in Tennessee who are now without the medical care that they need.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that the ACLU has promised to appeal this decision to the full panel of the Sixth Circuit.
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, that's right. And if that happens, this may not be over for Kentucky and Tennessee, correct?
--:-- John Bickley: [jumping in] Yeah, that's right. And of course, those three states are only the tip of the iceberg in this fight. We have 20 states currently with these kinds of laws on the books that are outlawing transgender surgeries, puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, when it comes to children, not adults.
--:-- Megan Basham: [jumping in] And right now, there are 14 legal challenges in 14 of those states, and most of them are federal challenges. There are a couple that are state challenges. And as far as how courts are responding to them, it's really all over the map.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that Sarah Parshall Perry, senior legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation, tells me that transgender activists are likely to notch their own circuit-level win here soon in Arkansas.
--:-- Megan Basham: [jumping in] Yeah, that's right. And I think it's also worth noting that Perry doesn't think that the Supreme Court is going to uphold these bans. She expects to see SCOTUS take this up, and she expects that they're going to say this is a matter for lawmakers to decide, not courts, and that they probably will uphold those bans.
--:-- John Bickley: [jumping in] Megan, can you explain why the medical literature or medical expertise seems to be playing into some of these decisions?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, I think part of that may be because of just how quickly consensus on this issue is changing, and not just in public opinion. Certainly in Europe, we've seen a move to a much more cautious approach when it comes to kids.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that the ACLU says that all medical treatments come with negative side effects, so that shouldn't be used to prevent doctors from performing these procedures and offering these medications to kids.
--:-- Megan Basham: [jumping in] Yeah, that's right. And I think it's also worth noting that Dr. Gregory Marchand, a board-certified OBGYN, says that medical transitioning creates what he called "forever patients." He says that this is a cruel thing to do for a child.
--:-- John Bickley: [jumping in] Megan, can you explain what Dr. Marchand means by that?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, I think what Dr. Marchand means is that medical transitioning can have permanent effects on a child's body, and that's not something that should be taken lightly.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that Laura Becker, who transitioned when she was 19, says that she was one of these misdiagnosed patients. She says that there were complex trauma, complex social issues, autism, and developmental issues that all resulted in loathing of the body and a desire to change it.
--:-- Megan Basham: [jumping in] Yeah, that's right. And I think it's also worth noting that Becker now speaks at events like a Genspect conference to try to increase awareness of patients like the patient she once was who are being misdiagnosed as transgender when, in fact, they suffer from other mental health issues.
--:-- John Bickley: [jumping in] Megan, can you explain what Becker is trying to say?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, I think what Becker is trying to say is that the big hospitals and medical associations that are promoting gender transition for children or even young adults aren't heeding the warnings of people like her.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that Becker says that she feels like there's more interest in social approval than in actually helping patients.
--:-- Megan Basham: [jumping in] Yeah, that's right. And I think it's also worth noting that Becker says that she feels like the medical community is not listening to the patients, such as detransitioners who have been harmed and what could be done to make this better.
--:-- John Bickley: [jumping in] Megan, can you summarize what we've talked about today?
--:-- Megan Basham: Yeah, I think what we've talked about today is the legal debate over transgender treatment for children and how medical experts and detransitioners are reacting. We've talked about the Sixth Circuit Court ruling, the ACLU's response, and the potential implications for the Supreme Court.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] And I think it's also worth noting that we've talked about the medical literature and medical expertise, and how that seems to be playing into some of these decisions.
--:-- John Bickley: [jumping in] Well, thanks for reporting, Megan.
--:-- Megan Basham: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Georgia Howe: [jumping in] That was Daily Wire culture reporter Megan Basham. And this has been a Sunday edition of Morning Wire.
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