Biden on the Defensive, Trump's Threats, and Congressional Stock Trading

[Podcast Intro Music]

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Scott Galloway: Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door. Expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like Tea Time You. Mmm. Or this Tea Time You. Or even this Tea Time You. Said you hear about Dave. Or even Tea Time, Tea Time, Tea Time You. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great.

Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher: Hello, Scott. How are you doing? You're still in Germany, correct?

Scott Galloway: Last night, I was an American living in London. Watching Team England at a beer garden in Munich. And I had one of those moments where I thought-

Kara Swisher: The European.

Scott Galloway: Well, just how much the world has changed. I think about not that long ago in terms of time, Germany was literally our enemy. And now they're one of our strongest allies. Then I went to the BMW Museum with my 13-year-old, as my dad does with his 13-year-old, after buying the new Jude Bellingham Adidas cleats.

Kara Swisher: Oh, good God.

Scott Galloway: So we go to the BMW Museum. BMW owns many.

Kara Swisher: Well, he has a many. Does he? He loves it. He loves his Mini. They're great cars. Or they're fun cars, I should say. I think I've driven in a Mini with you.

Scott Galloway: You have. That was the one Louie has.

Kara Swisher: Oh, got it.

Scott Galloway: But I took a picture of this thing and I'll post it online. The original Austin Mini Metro, it's essentially a lawnmower with doors. It is tiny.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: My mother and father met in Toronto. They immigrated first to Toronto. They met, got married, so the story goes, and then they got pregnant. After a brutal Toronto winter, they decided they wanted to move. America was the land of opportunity, and they finally got their visa. They read in the Toronto Globe and Mail that the city with the best weather in North America was San Diego. So they decided to set out for San Diego, and they drove from Toronto to San Diego in an Austin Mini Metro when my mother was seven months pregnant with me.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, that's exciting.

Scott Galloway: You complained when you were in the Mini, as I recall. So small, do you remember?

Kara Swisher: No, but that thing was a Cadillac compared to the original Mini Metro.

Scott Galloway: I was sitting there thinking, looking at this thing. I was, quote unquote, a viable fetus. If my mom had gone into premature labor or they decided to stay in Canada, so much of our success and our failure is just not our fault. It's just random. Life is random.

Kara Swisher: Well, there's a lot of things I would impress on young people, but when things are going well for you, be humble. A lot of it isn't your fault. And when things are going really poorly for you, forgive yourself.

Scott Galloway: I was thinking so much of everything about my blessings and challenges is just not my fault. It has to do with a Mini Metro.

Kara Swisher: Mini Metro that got your little Scott fetus to California.

Scott Galloway: What if it broke down in Oklahoma? Would I be an oil wildcatter now?

Kara Swisher: Interesting.

Scott Galloway: Think about it. They ended up in San Diego. So what was my life? University of California, Los Angeles. University of California, Berkeley. Technology. All of these things were not my fault.

Kara Swisher: I shall interject. My brother just sent me the passage that my grandfather came over on as a child from Italy on the Galea or whatever with his name. His name wasn't the name I thought it was. It was Rosario. His name was Henry later. But his real name was Rosario, which is interesting. We were thinking about getting Italian passports, I'll be honest with you. Should we get them? That's the new rich thing. Rich people are getting second and third passports.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's kind of cool.

Kara Swisher: I thought it would be cool for my mom. She's older. It'll be interesting. But we have to figure out if we can, because we're not clear. I think my brother said my great-grandfather renounced his allegiance to the king of Italy. So we have to figure out what the plans are. Anyway, it's kind of interesting.

Scott Galloway: It is. It's random. My grandfather's family came over, and other family members didn't. And here we are. They went back to that village called Felito in Italy, and there are a lot of people who look like us who are there. It's a relatively poor town. It's just randomness.

Kara Swisher: But what you just said is really interesting and profound. People are constantly asking me, what's the difference? What distinctions really stand out in terms of the UK, in terms of culture and business from the US? I think it all comes back to what you just said. Throughout the 20th century, tens of thousands, and then I think a few hundred thousand people, said in the UK, including my father when he was 17 in Glasgow and my mother when she was 19 in London, "I'm going to get on a ship with almost no money and go to a place I have never been and try something new."

Scott Galloway: That's right.

Kara Swisher: And tens of millions decided not to and stay put. That is the biggest difference between the culture in Britain and the US. Interestingly, speaking of Germany, I did an interview. A great lesbian moment happened. It was sort of like a sort of the-

Scott Galloway: Was it on Cinemax? I got to stop that. I really got to stop that.

Kara Swisher: I interviewed Rachel Maddow yesterday about her-

Scott Galloway: Oh, you're kidding.

Kara Swisher: Yes, it was so good.

Scott Galloway: That's huge because I heard she doesn't like anybody.

Kara Swisher: She doesn't. But she and I got along like peas and carrots. We had never spoken. It's the weirdest lesbian non-meeting because you'd think we would. We have the same haircut and everything. And in media.

Scott Galloway: Did you guys cry for three hours and hug and watch Riverdale and decide never to meet again? Isn't that what all this was?

Kara Swisher: I have a Riverdale situation with you in a second. But very quickly. Anyway, it was a great interview. You have to listen to Ultra. It's all about the influence of Germany and propaganda on the U.S. I'm reading her book, Prequel. Prequel is great. But the two podcasts are, I know she's a great broadcaster, but she's an excellent podcaster. The story is so great. You would love it, Scott Galloway. I was thinking of you the whole time. I'm listening to season two, and I'm listening to part of season one, but I'm going to go back and re-listen to season one. It's all about Germans, America first, fascism. It takes place a lot in Germany, which is interesting.

Scott Galloway: But speaking of Riverdale and conspiracy theories-

Kara Swisher: I went to the showing of Fly Me to the Moon with Channing Tatum and Scarlett Johansson. They were not there, but the director, Greg Berlanti, was there. And he did Riverdale. It's all about the moon landing and also a fake moon landing. It's so funny. The reviewers have been really mixed, but I got to tell you, it was charming. Amanda Katz has a high level for popular movies, she doesn't like them, and she loved it. It was great. It was amazing. I think we're going to bring Greg on to talk about conspiracy theories and how he managed to thread the needle. And he did Riverdale. He did Dawson Creek. He did all kinds of shows.

Scott Galloway: They're both underrated actors.

Kara Swisher: Scarlett Johansson was really good. She was amazing. And that movie was about divorce that was just so devastating and awful.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I didn't watch that one.

Kara Swisher: And Channing Tatum was outstanding in that movie about the wrestler who was with Stephen Carell, who played that kind of billionaire who ended up murdering his brother.

Scott Galloway: Yes. Oh, I loved it.

Kara Swisher: Scott, if you want to feel good, watch that movie. It was wonderful. There was a line in it. It's about conspiracy theories. It's about lying. It has so much. I thought it had a lot of resonance as charming as it was. One of the lines she says, it's a throwaway line, but it's not, where she says, "The truth is the truth, even if nobody believes it. And the lie is a lie, even if everybody does." It was a great line. I don't know how they made conspiracy theory of landing on the moon funny, and profound. It was really good. I would recommend it highly.

Scott Galloway: But just back to Rachel Maddow for a second. I think Rachel Maddow defines, you always hear this term, and she perfectly embodies it, "Be so talented they can't ignore you."

Kara Swisher: That's correct.

Scott Galloway: Because I find Rachel Maddow, quite frankly, unlikable. I think she comes across as indignant.

Kara Swisher: No, she's hysterical.

Scott Galloway: I think her public persona is not very likable. I think there's still not as much now, but when she started in media, I think there was tremendous homophobia. I don't think there were a lot of people rooting for her. If you watch that MSNBC lineup for the last 10, 15 years, where they basically have progressives saying the same thing over and over for 30 minutes or 60 minutes, and then they go on to the next person. There's everyone. And there's Rachel Maddow.

Kara Swisher: That's correct.

Scott Galloway: Because you can watch her show and you're like, "OK, she worked harder today. She did more fact checking. She did more research. She came up with better economy of words. She came up with more apt, insightful analogies." She is so ridiculously talented.

Kara Swisher: I need you to listen to the podcast because you'll be blown away. She's such a wonk. She's a history wonk. Her book on fascism, Prequel. She's talking about 20s and 30s Germany. Not just that. It's insightful. It's your insights to today. We talked a lot about that. We talked about a lot of things. She's very funny, actually. I enjoyed interviewing her because she was a little looser and she's very funny in a different way from how I am. Anyway, it was great. I also interviewed Gretchen Whitmer, too, by the way. I got this badass lady week month, year.

Scott Galloway: Well, you know what I like? I really appreciate that you don't sequester all the serious talent for your other podcasts. Up next week, the head of DEI from the National Forestry Service on Pivot.

Kara Swisher: I have brought people here.

Scott Galloway: Oh, my God. Oh, come on. We get the literally off-off-Broadway-Wokistan.

Kara Swisher: I mean, okay, hold on. Gretchen Whitmer and Rachel Maddow, we're going to get the environmental reporter from Mother Jones next week on Pivot. You know what? I'm bringing Gretchen here next week. I'm going to put Gretchen here. I dare you. I literally dare you. I'm going to text her. Bring Governor Newsom on. Do you want Shapiro? I'll bring Shapiro. Who do you want?

Scott Galloway: I would love to have Shapiro on.

Kara Swisher: Pick one.

Scott Galloway: Newsom.

Kara Swisher: Newsom. All right. I will get him to do it. I will get him to come on Pivot. A hundred percent.

Scott Galloway: There you go.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including a growing number of calls for Biden to step aside. What a surprise. And Trump spelling out plans for his second term in the GOP's new platform. But first, the last time we talked, this is interesting because you noted this. Apple and Microsoft are planning to participate in OpenAI's board as non-observers. You said that was nonsense. They would have a lot of influence. But that's not the case anymore, Scott. I think you had influence. Microsoft has ditched its observer status on the board. And Apple will drop its plans to join amid antitrust scrutiny. So Kaplan's pressure is, this is how regulatory works, it causes scrutiny that causes them to rethink things. But OpenAI's new plan will be to host regular stakeholder meetings to share progress. EU and UK regulators are looking at Microsoft's partnership with OpenAI, and so are others. So why didn't anyone see this but you and I?

Scott Galloway: I got a call from someone in one of these agencies, and they said, with respect to observer versus board seat, what exactly are you talking about? I told them this makes absolutely no difference. Then I said, "You've seen the map. All roads around AI, the most seminal influential technology probably since the handheld, all lead back to the same players in an increasingly narrow group of players." This person barely responded, said thank you, and hung up the phone. I cannot take credit for this, but this person basically said, "Just so you know, Scott, we're not stupid." The lobbyists and the FTC and the DOJ called the lobbyists or Apple or whoever and said, "Guys, we're not stupid." Even if you're trying to create a sub-brand called OpenAI.

Kara Swisher: I had Reid Hoffman on my podcast yesterday and I said, "Reid, you started a company, you started Inflection, you're on the board of Microsoft. Inflection just basically did an acqui-hire into OpenAI."

Scott Galloway: Oh, good. I'm glad you asked him.

Kara Swisher: I mean, isn't this not only going to the same players, but going to Apple and Microsoft?

Scott Galloway: What did he say?

Kara Swisher: He goes, "Oh, Scott." He's such a lovable guy. You can't help but like that guy.

Scott Galloway: By the way, I think he's turned into the conscience of technology.

Kara Swisher: I agree.

Scott Galloway: He is so thoughtful, so smart. He is so committed to democracy.

Kara Swisher: Yes. And by the way, pays billions of taxes in California and Washington. Isn't peacing out and saying he needs to spend more time with his parents in low-tax states.

Scott Galloway: He is the tech leader we want.

Kara Swisher: I know. Did you see Elon attacked him, tried to link him with Epstein? Of course. Anyways, I said to him straight up, "Do you really think people are being fooled here?"

Scott Galloway: So what was his answer?

Kara Swisher: Well, he said, "Well, I said, basically, was an inflection essentially acquired by OpenAI?" I was like, "No, we just had a board meeting." And I'm like, "Boss, the hearts and lungs, all the key people, including the person who runs this, is now at Microsoft or at OpenAI." Anyways, he had somewhat of a thoughtful response.

Scott Galloway: But be clear, the FTC and the DOJ, the next thing up, and this is not my prediction, they're going to announce a formal review here. It is so obvious. And them saying, "Just kidding, we're not going on these boards" at the same time, that didn't happen accidentally.

Kara Swisher: No, they're trying to stave that off.

Scott Galloway: I think it's going to happen.

Kara Swisher: Speaking of which, we should have Cantor on this show.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I'd like that.

Kara Swisher: I will get Cantor and I will get Newsom for us.

Scott Galloway: Okay. All right. Do you feel that? There you go.

Kara Swisher: All right. Speaking of which, a group of bipartisan senators have announced a proposed ban on congressional stock trading to prevent members from profiting from insider knowledge. The legislation would ban lawmakers from buying and selling stocks and other covered investments. Lawmakers would also be required to divest from all covered investments starting in 2027. Penalties for violations would either be the official's monthly salary or 10 percent of the assets in violation, whichever is higher. That's pretty substantive. The main example of this who would affect is Nancy Pelosi, whose husband Paul is a multimillionaire investor. Nancy opposed this type of legislation obviously until about 2022 when she did an about-face. I don't know if this is ever going to pass. This is a complex topic, but it's very clear that something has to happen here. They do know stuff. There's all kinds of insider information spinning around the Congress all the time. Thoughts?

Scott Galloway: This is ground zero for what is the most obvious example of corruption in government. Nancy Pelosi can be in a room with the head of the CDC, with the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, and all of a sudden find out that they're thinking about a mandate or massive multibillion-dollar subsidies of vaccines. And, oh, wait, the next thing you know, her husband decides to buy Moderna before the public knows. Away from just assuming evil corruption, you can't help but create conflicts of interest. Even if you're assuming the very best from these people, it's too hard not to say something to your spouse. When I was married to Megan at Google, it was difficult. We never spoke about Google or anything she knew inside. But it was hard because I was covering some of that. The opportunity to cheat is so broad and large and easy.

Kara Swisher: Or not even specific companies. You think, "There's this incredible new technology on keeping submarines quiet. We just had these really smart people in from General Dynamics. And oh, what do you know? It's a public company. They seem so smart. Hey, Paul, do you think maybe we should buy General Dynamics stuff?" This is ground zero. This is corruption.

Scott Galloway: This legislation doesn't go far enough because the way I read it is they can lose 10% of the value of the underlying stock.

Kara Swisher: So you think it should be more? What would you do? You think they should disgorge the whole profit?

Scott Galloway: That's what I would say. It's a criminal violation.

Kara Swisher: Well, okay.

Scott Galloway: Anyone elected to federal office has to put all of their publicly traded stocks in a blind trust. Someone else manages it. Because as long as you have access to this, even more obvious, if Nancy Pelosi calls the CEO of Reddit, Stephen Huffman, and says, "I love Reddit, I love you, Stephen, is there any way you can give me allocation in the IPO?" IPOs are priced below the price they're traditionally going to trade out on the first trade. What is he going to say? "I'm sorry, Speaker Pelosi, I can't get any allocation." If he did that, that would get out. That's not really a step too far, I suspect. They don't do that.

Kara Swisher: It's not illegal. No, but it's interesting because when Meghan went to the White House, she had to put everything in a blind trust. The White House, the disclosure stuff was so massive, it was crazy. I was sort of surprised. They were even asking me, and I was like, "Well, I'm not married." It was a really interesting, I remember thinking how massive the amount of information just the White House wanted. The fact that the Congress doesn't do this seems ridiculous. It gives people the sense that the game is rigged.

Scott Galloway: Either Nancy and Paul Pelosi are just genius investors, or her access to non-public material information that would be considered insider information for any private citizen has resulted in her ability to amass tens of millions of dollars. That's part of the reason we don't have enough churn. People should do service and then they should leave. And go make money. Or pay them more in salaries so they're not tempted to engage in this type of corruption.

Kara Swisher: It's interesting how close the husband and wife should be, because there's a lot of that. Let's get away from Nancy. There was a Republican senator who was very clear his wife, he sold his stuff after a briefing. I think they should, just like other people with insider trading, they should be investigated in the same exact manner. Whatever regular people have to put up with in that case, they should put up with. It's very hard not to accuse them of cronyism and to feel like the game isn't rigged against the little guy.

Scott Galloway: When our elected officials have more access to sensitive information than any individuals in the world.

Kara Swisher: That's true. Interesting. Here's an interesting piece of fact. Tesla's market share of EVs in the U.S. has dropped below 50% for the first time.

Scott Galloway: Oh, right again we are, that it was going to.

Kara Swisher: Tesla accounted for 49.7% of EV sales in the quarter, down from 59% last year. The company's global sales fell almost 5% in the second quarter. The U.S. electric vehicle sales overall grew by 11%, so it's a Tesla problem. It's not going to catch up again. It's only going down. Their market share is only everybody. I'm sorry to tell you, this is what happens when competition. Thank you, Tesla, for seeding the market, but what's going to happen to you is what happens to every other first product, except maybe the iPhone, I guess. But there's a lot of really good competitors. You're not offering products that are new and fresh, except for that Cybertruck, which apparently he now wants to ride on Mars, but that's another story. So this is no surprise to us at all.

Scott Galloway: But to be fair, the market declines are more than compensated by the growth of the overall market.

Kara Swisher: It took a real dive. It took a real dive there for a minute, correct.

Scott Galloway: It had gone down for a while. It was one of the worst performers, but it has made up a ton of ground in the last 30 days.

Kara Swisher: And why is that? Explain, Mr. Stock Guru, why that is.

Scott Galloway: The market is a prediction machine. It attempts to discern a ton of signals around how the company is doing. The value of a stock is based on its current cash flow and then the present value of its growth opportunity. The market is trying to guess what that growth opportunity is. It sets a series of expectations, including analysts. The company itself will say, "We expect to deliver this many cars at this margin." A few weeks ago, they announced what they had actually done. They had exceeded those expectations.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, they weren't as bad. Yes, that's right.

Scott Galloway: A lot of people are saying the product's getting tired. They have some charger problems, maintenance problems. But the reality is the company has blown away expectations and the stock has been on an absolute tear the last 30 or 60 days.

Kara Swisher: In May, the low was 142, which was quite low. And now it's at 265. That is a tear. People are now baking that in that they're going to be. But I'm talking about their global market share. Even as the area is growing, Tesla is going to get smaller and smaller because there's going to be more and more competitors.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's a percentage. It would be impossible in that market to maintain 50% share. The place that is really just the EV market is incredible is China. They expect that a third of the cars on the road by 2030, which isn't that far away, will be EVs. The reason why Tesla will probably continue to perform is it's really a branding thing. China makes a better EV than Tesla or the US on a value basis. But Tesla is a global brand that means "I'm concerned about the environment and I'm rich," which is very sexy. The strangest thing about China I've always found is that it's the second largest economy. Name one global brand that has come out of China.

Kara Swisher: There are global brands that have come out of France, Italy, amazing brands. Japan, South Korea, Samsung. There are amazing brands that come out of every single market. But the second largest economy in the world, for the life of it, has not been able to make global brands.

Scott Galloway: Well, the only thing is I would say is this investor, Bill Gross, not the tech Bill Gross, the debt guy.

Kara Swisher: The debt guy, right.

Scott Galloway: He says Tesla is acting like a meme stock, sagging fundamentals, straight up price action. But there seems to be a new meme stock every day now, more pump and dump. So buyer beware is what I would say. It trades at a PE of 68. I think most car companies trade at like single digit PEs.

Kara Swisher: It's definitely, Elon still can keep these things up. Okay, let's get to our first big story. President Biden made it clear that he's not ending his campaign, but the pressure on him to drop out continues. Speaking of Nancy Pelosi, man, is she one deaf politician, I'll tell you that. She opened that door up again as it was subsiding, was closing, giving Biden more breathing room, and she said, "The time is running short for Biden to make a decision" during an appearance on Morning Joe, which is the show Joe Biden watches. He's like, "We're waiting for him to make a decision," even though he's made a decision. It was carefully calibrated. It was essentially what I understand is giving the green light to people to come out after NATO is over to oppose Biden and the Democratic Party. Democratic Senator Pete Welch became the first senator to call for Biden to exit the race in a Washington Post op-ed.

Scott Galloway: I thought Bennett was before him, no?

Kara Swisher: No, Bennett is being in the middle. He was on Caitlin Collins. He didn't quite say it. "I'd like him to make a decision," is what Bennett's saying.

Scott Galloway: Didn't he also say that if he stays in the race, we lose the Senate and the House?

Kara Swisher: He did, but he will not tell them. It's so funny to watch them pretzel themselves. Yes, he said we're going to lose, but then he didn't follow it with, "So he should leave." It's the silent, "So he should leave." But this guy said he should leave. Now, speaking of the most famous person who said he should lead, George Clooney, who hosted a huge fundraiser for Biden last month, is asking the president to end his candidacy in a New York Times essay writing, "One battle he cannot win is a fight against time."

Scott Galloway: He sounds like Scott Galloway. You know Father Time has no time for you.

Kara Swisher: He wrote this piece in the New York Times which I thought was very good. The most devastating part of it is not so much that he's a big fundraiser for the Democrats. A lot of people agree with him. Michael Douglas, who is a big Biden person who raised a lot of money, said, "George has a valid point." Everyone is sort of scooching up to the line that Nancy Pelosi has allowed them to do, essentially. Apparently, Jeff Katzenberg tried to get him not to do it. Obama and he talked, but Obama didn't ask him not to do it, which is interesting. In any case, it was a huge splash. It's two weeks since the debate and these calls have not gone away. By the way, we're recording this ahead of Biden giving a news conference at the NATO summit Thursday evening. We'll come back if he falls down and breaks a hip. The "big boy press conference," what they're calling it?

Scott Galloway: That's the worst branding in history.

Kara Swisher: That's the White House. I thought it was a joke.

Scott Galloway: No, it's the White House calling it the big boy presser, big boy conference.

Kara Swisher: It was Karine Jean-Pierre. I was like, "Karine, don't say big boy."

Scott Galloway: That was terrible. Don't say big boy. Big boy sounds like you're teaching him how to pee.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, he's also set to sit down with NBC's Lester Holt on Monday for an interview. NBC is also reporting that the Biden campaign has suffered a major slowdown in donations, so the campaign has pushed back on that. Also, George Stephanopoulos caught on the street walking around one day and after the interview was like, "He can't make it four more years." He shouldn't have said that probably, but he did. And it got caught on tape. Scott, what do you think?

Scott Galloway: It's unfortunately tragically comic. When all these Democrats keep asking Biden, urging him to make a decision, he makes it, and then they ask him to make it again.

Kara Swisher: Not that decision.

Scott Galloway: No, is there any way you could go back and think some more and come back with a different decision?

Scott Galloway: That is funny. I think so much of it is core to our flaw as a party. And that is the wonderful thing about Democrats is they're incredibly optimistic and they have this vision of what the world should be like. They want a better tomorrow. Progressive ideology or woke or whatever you want to call it, it's rooted in aspiration and hopeful things of the right to make your own decisions, to be happy.

Kara Swisher: With a side order of shaming people.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. To embrace who you are. But then it's like, okay, we've decided biology should adopt our views on ageism. And biology has said hold my beer. And if it was anything, if it was a sex scandal, a crime scandal, a huge oh that would boost his ratings, unfortunately. If it was anything, a failed invasion, they could probably handle anything. But here's the thing. The only thing we know about this problem is that every minute of every hour of every day, this problem gets worse.

And what they're not focusing on, and I thought was the most damaging thing, in my view, was in the Stephanopoulos interview, he refused to agree to take a cognitive test.

Kara Swisher: Right.

Scott Galloway: Although Gretchen Whitmer yesterday in another interview was like, couldn't hurt if he did it. Like, they're all like, stepping around old man Biden. If you're running for president, and you're going to literally have your finger on the button, and you're the front line against a global trend towards extremism and anti-Semitism and gender apartheid. And there are real serious doubts amongst your internal, your inner circle about your cognitive ability. And you're so confident that this isn't a problem. Why on earth would you or your advisors not say, of course, end this. Take the cognitive test.

Kara Swisher: But here's the thing. The people who know him and the people who are around him and him have said, don't get near a fucking cognitive test.

Scott Galloway: That's correct.

Kara Swisher: I don't think I'd pass a cognitive test, honestly. But let's talk about that. He could do two things. Run out the clock. That's what he seems to be doing and keeping making the decision. They don't like this decision. The Democrats have to come out and say it versus them like walking around it sideways, which is tell your friend Michael Bennett that. Like, come on, Michael.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but come on, to be clear, Senator Bennett, think of the situation here. This is an absolutely no-win situation, because if you come out, if you come out against him and he wins, your persona non grata in the White House.

Kara Swisher: Maybe, maybe he's too old to do anything about it.

Scott Galloway: No, no, no. You're persona non grata. The Democratic Party, you were that turncoat. If you say nothing, right, and he wins or he loses, you're fine. It's nothing but downside other than fidelity to the country right now.

Kara Swisher: And Trump.

Scott Galloway: So what they're all doing is they're all trying to have their cake and eat it too. I would urge the president to speak to some outsiders and experts. Jesus Christ, grow a fucking pair. I'll tell you, the Emanuel brothers, Zeke Emanuel especially, too, his brother's been very loud-mouthed, but Zeke Emanuel is making a cognitive case, which is interesting. He's a doctor, obviously, a very famous doctor and very close to Biden.

Kara Swisher: What did he say? I'm not familiar with that.

Scott Galloway: Oh, he did a whole thing saying he needs to step down. He needs to fucking step down.

Kara Swisher: So, interestingly, Biden has gone on the offense, defiant in interviews, lashing out what he calls the elites, the Democratic Party. I don't like this, Biden. I don't like angry old man Biden. Honestly, anyone who's dealt with an elderly parent, like, it sucks to go up against someone who wants to do things that can't anymore. It is the worst feeling. It's the worst thing to do. They're terrible to you. And I'm not talking about anyone specifically. But, yes, I am. But I got to tell you, I don't like this, how they're going on the offense, including big boy interview. It's just astonishing how badly I think they're messaging this. Talk about it from a marketing point of view.

Scott Galloway: From a marketing point of view, there would be, or brand strategy point of view, there's two major messages or two major pieces of advice that you want to give the Biden campaign right now. And one they're doing and the other they need to do if they survive this. The first is, it's actually quite smart to position that the people calling for him to step down are all these white elites. That is smart because he can say, I'm for you. I'm for now in whites. I'm fighting every day for regular people. I have continued to win for you. I will continue to fight for you. And despite the fact that a bunch of blowhard podcasters and rich white people are saying I should stand down the cultural elites, I'm going to continue to fight for you. I think that is a smart positioning.

Kara Swisher: But the voters are way ahead of Washington on this issue.

Scott Galloway: A long time ago, but go ahead.

Kara Swisher: But that's the right to position, if you will, us as these elites trying to tell other voters what to do and him what to do. That is a good positioning.

Scott Galloway: Now, the biggest and most obvious and strongest piece of advice I would give to Biden campaign, should they survive this? And I don't think they will, but should they? They can no longer ever say Biden or White House. Any communication, any messages, any labels has to come from one brand only.

Kara Swisher: Team Biden.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Team Biden. This is not Joseph Biden. This is Team Biden. So his health care aides. He got to position it as I have assembled the most thoughtful talented group of people. I'm not firing them. They're not going to end up in jail. I'm not going to call them dumb as a rock. They're not going to start talking about conspiracy theory and end up in prison. I have the presidency is an ability to have instincts, slow thinking. Let's be honest, folks. I'm always quick on my feet. But I have assembled the most talented team in the world. Every communication should come from Team Biden.

Having said that, I still, Kara, I still don't think, I mean, I'm biased. I'm too close to it. I'm curious what you think. But I think the pressure is only mounting despite all the attempts to shame everybody back into sticking their head up their ass. I don't think it's working.

Kara Swisher: Well, one of the things, you know, I was just thinking this morning, of course, we're waiting for this press conference, but it's like turning on whether he can do a press conference. Like, that's where, like, let's see if he does the press conference well. Are you kidding me? Like, that to me is like, that's like, the bar is what's lower than the ground. It's like, and you're losing, and you're losing. You keep losing to this felon. Like, what?

But what's really interesting to me, let me actually read the Zeke manual thing because I think you'll really like it. For those 75 years or older, it's time to retire from public office. Dare I say I agree with my brother Ari. We need a mandatory age limit for all federal elected officials and all federal judges. No one should serve past 75. Sure, some people will be capable of serving past 75. But just as FBI agents, pilots, foreign service officers and board members at some corporations have a mandatory retirement ages, so should federal elected officials and judges. In a country of 330 million, there are certainly plenty of competent people for these jobs. And practically speaking, a mandatory retirement age is administratively easy and fair. With an age minimum in the Constitution, the framers should have added an age maximum as well. Let's fix that deficiency.

Scott Galloway: Perfect. We need age gating on the lower end and the higher end.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: We need more ageism in this country.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Right. Right. So, you know, I just it's just I think it's going to mount. It's going to mount. He's going to fall and break a hip at some point. Germany watching football. Like, what is your, you're in D.C., what is your sense of the momentum? Everyone is sort of like trying to look away. You know, I sent you that Desi Lydic thing from Daily Show. It's like, you know, someone shit the bed at Gwyneth Paltrow's house. Everyone is pretending. They're not pretending. They're saying he should leave, but then no one will say it, right? None of the big dogs will say it. They say it to you sotto voce. It a lot of what the fuck are we going to do right? That what it is. What the fuck are we going to do? And then they get pushed back by people like well what the plan. There a lot of I tell you the never Trumpers are very much on Biden side saying this is a big mistake. Like Mike Madrid, who I respect a lot, or Rick Wilson, we both know, Stuart Stevens. All the Republicans are like, don't. At the same time, there's been a lot of reporting that the Trump people really want Biden to be his foe. So it's interesting. I need to talk to them because I like Mike Madrid, but he's doing too much like shaming, like, oh, you're a bedwetter. I don't like that. Like, have a good argument. And there are a lot of people who I think are smarter, like, well, what are we going to do? I know in a room they have figured out what to do, right? There is things to do. And I think the question is whether it's worth the risk or not. But at this point, it's just not going to go away. And everyone's waiting for him to fall. That's really a really bad situation. And no matter it's not the media's fault, it is not. And, you know, you and I get slathered all the time by people. And, you know, oddly enough, George Hahn just got slathered, like, by saying just he's old. That's all. By the sort of the blue MAGA, which is what they are. And I think it's just not going to end well. Like, right? It's just, as you can imagine, it's like age is age, as George Clooney says. Age is age. And they can attack George Clooney all they want, you know, or Jon Stewart or anyone else. And I get it's all white guys. But boy, if white guys are saying it, you know, I do get that, you know, the Congressional Black Caucus is backing Biden, the Hispanic Caucus is backing him. But then some of the members don't like it. If you're not 100 percent behind him at this point, it means you want him to step down. That's the way I see it.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. What about the other decision? Nancy Pelosi, let me tell you, she can serve until she's 103. She's one clever. You know, what she did is since she's not running the place and she was so good at running the fucking place, she let the members think about it and cogitate. But once it had to happen, she brought down the hammer. What she's doing here is she's taking the pressure off Hakeem Jeffries by being the one to raise this.

Kara Swisher: Right.

Scott Galloway: So she's like, I'll go out there and take the fire.

Kara Swisher: Right.

Scott Galloway: But she did it in such a deft way. We're behind him if he makes a decision. We're waiting for his decision. And it's like he made it. Can you go decide on that more, please? It was so clever, and I know she probably tested it with all of them. They all agreed on it which I love to be in that meeting where they all decide how to do it like as a group. That would have been a hysterical meeting. Schumer apparently, even though he goes I with Joe, is apparently like maybe not so much with Joe. And he a little less deft than she is.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, but also, don't you think these people are also worried about people starting to question their own age?

Scott Galloway: Yes, they will be.

Kara Swisher: Schumer's 73, Pelosi's 83. At some point, do people say, now do Pelosi?

Scott Galloway: Yes, except that literally I wouldn't turn my back on that lady. But I agree, yes. A comment, then a question to you.

Kara Swisher: Okay.

Scott Galloway: I had Anthony Scaramucci on the Prof G pod yesterday. And I said, I asked him a bunch of questions about the inner workings of the White House for the 11 days he was there. And I said, who is Trump most scared of? And he said, the candidate that scares the shit out of Trump because he's such a narcissist and he's so focused on appearances, his nightmare is Newsom. That's the call of the message he doesn't want to get, is that the Democrats have chosen Newsom, because he said he's very luxist and he's really worried about how he would appear standing next to Governor Newsom. He'd look like a jab at the fucking hut. That's what he'd look like.

My question to you is, who is, and maybe it's they, and it's not one person, it's they, but who could march up to the White House or go public with, you've got to step down and actually move the needle right now? We know it's not George Clooney. We know it's not Michael Bennett. And, you know, who could do it?

Kara Swisher: Lucy and Schumer went up there and said, just like the Barry Goldwater thing, saying they're not voting for anyone that includes me. We're going to say something public. That could be one thing. I think Obama and Clinton, Bush, all together, something like that.

Scott Galloway: Obviously, Taylor Swift.

Kara Swisher: I hadn't thought about that. That's where we are. That's where we are.

Scott Galloway: Well, obviously. I mean, come on. Like, whatever you said.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. You know, I think probably...

Scott Galloway: Not in that order. Not in that order.

Kara Swisher: The presidents. The presidents or Nancy and that person. You know, I think one of the problems that seems to be happening is Hunter Biden's in there, right? Pushing him. That's worrisome. I've heard that from a lot of people. Like, you know, I think you don't need family members with their own self-interest in there. And they'll... You know, it's interesting given I'm an elderly parent, my mom, and we're all together on how we want to keep her safe, right? And even though we get slings and arrows over it from her. And I think it's really, we're doing it because we love her and it's in our interest. And in this case, it seems flipped, right? They're just like putting up with it or pressuring him in a weird way. I don't know. I'd have to get in there.

Scott Galloway: I mean, they're very proud people. And some of the Biden people I know were, Kara, you've got to, you know, support our president. And I go, I can't. I just can't. I'm sorry. Like, oof. I mean, again, I think your four quadrants are correct. If he leaves and they win, he's the biggest hero in history. And if he leaves and they don't win, he's okay. If he stays and loses, it's the end of his legacy. And he has a wonderful legacy. So anyway, I think that's the story right now, at least in Washington.

Kara Swisher: All right. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the GOP's new platform, what it means for tech, and take a listener mail question on choosing colleges.

Scott Galloway: Oh, that's a good one.

[Ad Break]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with our second big story. The Republican National Convention gets underway next week. The party approved its 2024 platform on Monday, giving us a glimpse at what a Trump second term might look like. It sounds awful in every single way. The platform reads like a Trump rally speech and features a list of 20 promises, including stop the migrant invasion, which we're still waiting for that caravan. Cancel the electric vehicle mandate and prevent World War III. OK. The language on abortion, same-sex marriage has also been pared down and softened. Gays can stay married, apparently, according to Donald Trump. Thanks, Donald, you fucking asshole.

You know, he had a rally recently where he was as loony as a, you know, it's all baked in, but he was loonier than ever. Still talking about sharks and Hannibal Lecter and all kinds of this and that. Speaking of cognitive disabilities. And I know people say we should say more about it. He is crazy, everybody. We have said it over and over again, and he's vicious. He's crazy and vicious and corrupt and a criminal. So there. I hope that's enough. What do you think about this vision that they've laid out? They're certainly trying to soften. We've been hearing a lot, thankfully, about Project 2025 in recent weeks, a proposal for massive overhaul of the federal government. Getting rid of NOAA is on their list. The project backed by Trump allies, very close Trump allies, includes an expansion of executive powers disbanding the Department of Education shredding climate protections. Trump has recently distanced himself from the plan claiming he know nothing about it which is nonsense. He also was like I wish them good luck. It was very similar to a statement he gave about Ghislaine Maxwell of the famous Epstein saying, I don't really know her, but I wish her good luck. And of course, there's 90 pictures of him with her. So what do you think about this?

Scott Galloway: So as frightening as Biden's performance has been, we don't want to talk about this, but Trump has actually been very on message. He's been much more disciplined this time. And he realizes that he's basically said, if we just pivot a little bit to the middle and we're not as terribly frightening, what's going on here is we've seen before, and that's Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett in their Senate testimony confirmation hearings pretending to be reasonable. And then once they're on the court, they decide to overturn Roe v. Wade, which they said under oath in front of the Senate was established precedent. My sense is Trump is very on message. I forget the name of the woman. Scaramucci says-

Kara Swisher: Susie Wiles.

Scott Galloway: He said she's the most powerful woman in Washington right now. But think about it. He's gone totally quiet around the debate. He's softening the stuff around bodily autonomy. But be clear, folks, it's now one in five women have to leave their state to terminate a pregnancy. It's going to go to two in five, three in five, and maybe more.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: And this whole 20, whatever they're calling it, 20, what are they calling it?

Kara Swisher: 2025, Project 2025.

Scott Galloway: I mean, you read through it and it's...

Kara Swisher: Oh, it's a handmaiden's tale booklet.

Scott Galloway: It's, okay, be clear, folks. The thing about these things is we make the mistake of believing they're so fucking crazy they could never happen. No, they can happen. It can happen.

Kara Swisher: Yep.

Scott Galloway: So from a messaging standpoint, Trump's trying to distance himself. But it is a looking glass into what some of the most powerful people who will have the greatest audience, voice, and sway on the White House are thinking.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, absolutely. And as I mentioned, Trump has softened the GOP's stance on abortion and marriage equality. New platforms does not reference a national abortion ban. The first time it's been omitted in 40 years of these platforms. Leave it to the states, which is almost even worse. There's no longer a reference to traditional marriage as between one man and one woman. That's been in there for a long time.

Scott Galloway: Bad marketing for them.

Kara Swisher: You're right, he's softening the stance.

Scott Galloway: Oh, I'm reasonable, but he is not reasonable, people. Let us be absolutely fucking clear. He will also have people in there like Stephen Miller, who are absolutely they want to build giant camps and deport people. They want to put millions of people under arrest for existing essentially.

Kara Swisher: There also major implications for tech in all of this. The plan calls for fewer restrictions on cryptocurrency, all their pals in that, repealing Biden's executive order on AI, which is quite a good one, actually, and bolstering commercial space exploration. This must be the Elon Musk must have called them and put them in. It signals a laissez-faire, if not outright cozy approach to emerging sectors, as the Washington Post put it. That's all Elon Musk, so you know, just FYI. Tech regulation is already a struggle. There won't be any tech regulation. And government investment in commercial space exploration, of course, be a boon for Musk and also Jeff Bezos, by the way.

Now, it's interesting that some tech leaders are playing nice, some aren't, like Reid Hoffman is. And what was really frightening, and I know you don't like Mark Zuckerberg, but Trump threatened him in a way that sounded like a tin horn dictator. He said, posted on Truth Social, the election fraudsters will be imprisoned if he gets elected in November. And he name checked Zuckerberg. Mark Zuckerberg does a lot of things, but he's not an election fraudster. And the fact that he's threatened imprisonment over his stupid election denial lies is really, I had to defend Mark.

Scott Galloway: Let's just, look, if we want to take, put Mark in prison, let's bring him to trial, prove the case, do the things like what a legal democracy does. That's different than what Trump did here, which is heinous, absolutely heinous. There's a clear, thick, indelible line between a democracy and fascism. And one of those lines, that there's sharp relief between an autocracy and a democracy, is that we have decided that when people are elected to power, they can't use federal agencies to go after their political enemies. And when you start threatening to put your political enemies in prison, and what he referenced was that Zuckerberg donated $400 million to nonprofits helping election offices with mail-in voting, getting falsely accused of violating campaign finance laws. By the way, he was cleared by the Federal Election Commission. This is stepping over that line into fascism. And it's not about Mark Zuckerberg.

It's about President Biden has never said, I hate Elon Musk. I think he's a threat to democracy. I think he's a threat to democracy. I hate what he's doing in Ukraine. I'm sicking my DOJ on him. When you directly say, I'm going to try and put someone in prison if I'm elected, this is what, and what you're dealing with here is what happens in these societies. And unfortunately, we're so entitled and we've enjoyed so many freedoms of which we're not in touch with the sacrifice and the commitment and the expense to maintain these freedoms that we don't realize that when you're living in an autocracy, everyone goes quiet because when you come out against Trump and say, this is a fascist, this is a misogynist, this is a convicted felon, you risk something. And so people stop engaging in a democracy which includes open, honest debate. The downside to being open and honest around what you think of Trump is much greater than the downside to being open and honest about what you think about the true Democrat, because he's not going to pursue you as a political enemy using the full power the federal government. So just threatening to weaponize our agencies in the government, that should be disqualifying. And everyone uses the word disqualifying.

But this is what it's like to live in Iran or Russia, where people do the math and go, I don't even want to have an open conversation. I'm going to tell my children and my friends, never speak out against this person because the downside is greater. Whereas there's someone who's a Democrat, oh yeah, speak out against them because there's no downside to speaking your mind. This is what it's like to live in an autocracy. I mean, I haven't, I'm not, I want to be clear, I'm not scared, but the thought has crossed my mind. If Donald Trump is elected, it's not the threat of some sort of government regulation or something. I'm not, I'm not saying we'd be put in jail, but do they pass legislation that is damaging to you and your family? I, this isn't, this is how we move away from a democracy.

Kara Swisher: Can I just tell you what just happened in the Senate Judiciary Committee, right, yesterday? That idiot Ben Shapiro, who I said is a very good entrepreneur, Ben. So just like, I'm sorry your dick is so small that you have to constantly attack me. But when a conservative, he just testified, when a conservative competitor to legacy media arises, members of the legacy media and their political allies rush to paint such competitors as dangerous. The commentator Kara Swisher on the New York Times for example told the head of YouTube that my videos on Daily Wire were a gateway drug that would lead children including her teenage son to watch neo content never mind the fact that I an Orthodox Jew. Gee Ben, you have to stop lying about this. This is like and he of course you know whatever, just these, they're just such liars, and they create real problems, because I, and now I'm getting, like, pilloried on Twitter, because I didn't do that. I said, when he asked him to me to watch Ben Shapiro, I said, absolutely, I think he's an idiot, but you decide for yourself, which I think is the correct answer to any child. You know, Alex listened and then he didn't like him. Like, that was it. That was the entire thing.

And what I said that I found more troubling was not so much the idiotic Ben Shapiro content, which I continue to think is idiotic. I know you don't as much as I do. But what I said is what happened was it wasn't Ben Shapiro's fault, but the algorithm led to stuff that was really troubling. When you watched him, it kept going down a rabbit hole. It was not Ben Shapiro's gateway drug fault, Ben. I'm so sorry. You're not a drug dealer. What it was was YouTube. I was complaining about the YouTube algorithm that pushed people to worse and worse and worse things, which has been studied and studied and studied again and again. And that was what I was talking about. But this is the kind of like twisting, as I was referencing that line from Fly Me to the Moon, which is, Ben, a lie is a lie, even if you believe it. I'm sorry. That is a lie that you're telling to people. You need to stop. You can call me if you like and listen again. And my whole point was that the YouTube algorithm was the problem, not you, although I personally think you're a problem. Anyway, stop.

Scott Galloway: Go ahead.

Kara Swisher: I'm sorry. I didn't know that was happening on Twitter.

Scott Galloway: This is one of those things I'm woefully ignorant about.

Kara Swisher: No, it happened in the Senate.

Scott Galloway: What is it? Senate Judiciary Committee?

Scott Galloway: But first off, he's using you as a dog whistle because he knows a lot of conservatives have issues with you and your viewpoint. But a larger point I think that people should draw from this: we make a lot of personal attacks. And that sounds terrible, but we say disparaging things about individuals' personal character and behavior. That is a personal attack. And I struggle with it because it's not something you want to be known for. And oftentimes people aren't able to defend themselves.

So I have a code around this. When I tell young men my code around a personal attack, the code I follow is the following: I will only ever reference someone's individual character and behavior in a negative light on one condition. They have to be much more powerful than me. Because I have power now. And every day, in large part because of this podcast and you and some of the exposure, I get more and more power and more influence.

So as a general rule, a guy like Ben Shapiro throwing you up as red meat and mischaracterizing your words is not only wrong, but even more so. Ben is actually, because of his listenership, very powerful. And he should not be personally attacking anyone that is not. He can attack Biden. I get it. He's a commentator. He can attack George Soros. I think George Soros is more powerful than Ben Shapiro, whatever. He can attack Macron or whatever it is. And I don't like his political viewpoints, fine.

But as a general rule, and this is going to sound sexist, as a man, men are supposed to be protectors. We're supposed to be in service. We're supposed to be, in my view, thinking about how we, before we even judge, before we even evaluate, we move to protection. That is our go-to move is protection. And if you're in a position like Ben Shapiro, you do not make personal attacks against anyone that is adjacent or below you.

Kara Swisher: It's not a personal attack. He's just mischaracterized. He's not calling me like a cunt. That's a personal attack. Look what's, I can only imagine what's happening to you on Twitter now.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's just, it's just, it's not—

Kara Swisher: I get that, but that's the people who follow him also. Let me just say, let me give an invitation to Ben Shapiro. Come and meet me and my son. We will explain to you what happened and he will tell you, I told him to listen to you. He didn't like you all by yourself and maybe he likes you now. I don't know. I don't know what he listens to. He does. He's over 18. He can do whatever he wants.

Scott Galloway: You know what the best thing that happened to Ben Shapiro is?

Kara Swisher: What?

Scott Galloway: Candace Owens. You want to talk about someone who's just fucking batshit crazy? Well, he handled that well. I have to say he did. He handled it well. And now she's accusing, she's trying to keep this conspiracy theory alive. Have you heard this thing about Macron's wife?

Kara Swisher: No, what?

Scott Galloway: Forget it then. I don't want to bring it up.

Kara Swisher: What is, oh, she's a beard? That one?

Scott Galloway: No, that she's actually a man. And I mean, okay.

Kara Swisher: I actually met Candace Owens at our conference. She was very pleasant. I actually really enjoyed meeting her.

Scott Galloway: I did not. I mean, okay.

Kara Swisher: Well, I like on a certain level, I really want to like a woman of color who doesn't immediately fit into the stereotype of what her political view should be.

Scott Galloway: I agree. She's also, I got to give it to her. She's fearless. She's compelling. She's decided to run with this conspiracy theory that is nothing but conspiratorial clickbait that is anti—

Kara Swisher: But she does that all the time, Scott.

Scott Galloway: The only thing I would say to you, as pleasant as she may be—

Kara Swisher: But see, when Ben Shapiro then says she's an anti and a weirdo, I want nothing to do with her, and she removed—he comes across as reasonable.

Scott Galloway: Okay. Let's listen to a listener question. It's a good one. This question comes from Sage. Oh, I love that name. Let's listen.

[Listener voicemail plays]

Listener Sage: Hi, Kara and Scott. My name is Sage, and I've been listening to y'all since eighth grade. Kara, you really hooked me with Sway. I just wanted to say, excitingly, I'm going into my senior year, and you guys have been such a big influence on me. I love hearing your perspective. You constantly challenge me to think about issues to a deeper degree. Do you guys have any advice on how to decide what colleges to apply to and where I should go? I hear you guys talking about how Alice made this choice. I would like some similar advice. Also, please share any life advice you guys have for a senior in high school, what I should be focusing on and how do I position myself to have a fulfilled and successful life? Thank you guys so much.

Kara Swisher: Oh my God, Scott. We're having influence on the young people. So nice, isn't it?

Scott Galloway: That's literally, other than Team England winning last night, that's the second best thing that's happened to me all week.

Kara Swisher: Oh my God. So lovely. You know, we do have a lot of people, young people do come up to me a lot and talk about this. And they like being challenged and they like hearing disagreement done well. In any case, gosh, Sage, what a big—oh, wow. I think you're going to be fine, Sage. I think we should be asking you for advice. Just be you. That's it. That's all I got to say.

No, actually, let me tell you, my senior, Jeffrey Swisher just put up a picture of me in my senior year with a terrible haircut.

Scott Galloway: I saw that. You little, you little sexy minx.

Kara Swisher: He's not my brother anymore. I'm turning him into a little—

Scott Galloway: You're a little—I'll have sex with the guys would make out with the ladies.

Kara Swisher: That's correct. Anyway.

Scott Galloway: It's funny. Now that you're 60, you look 40. When you were 18, you looked 40. You've just been 40 your whole life.

Kara Swisher: That is correct. I think I must have been 16 because I went to college at 17.

Scott Galloway: You're 16 in that photo?

Kara Swisher: 16. It's got to be.

Scott Galloway: You look like next up on Rachel Maddow, Journalist Care. You look 40. You look exactly the same.

Kara Swisher: I don't change. Anyway, let's get back to Sage. Sage, let me just tell you something. I did not get into any of the colleges I applied to. I didn't get into Stanford, I didn't get into Brown, I didn't get into Yale. I didn't get waitlisted at Princeton. I didn't get into anything. And Georgetown was my backup school at the time. It was a backup school. And I regretfully, I did. I had four very good years there.

But let me say, you're not going to get everything you want, right? So you never know, as we talked at the beginning of this podcast, life is random. And what you manage to get into, sometimes is a good thing. It was great that I came to Washington and worked in Congress and I worked for the Washington Post. So everything follows like a river to the next thing. And so I just, I wouldn't think too hard or worry too much. Just figure out where you want to live, right? You want to be in a warm climate. The issue Alex had with Michigan was the cold. Weather was one of his things, but then he decided he really, really likes Michigan a lot.

So I think you just decide where you want to live or what has a really good program for the things you're in. And also, you don't know your major is going to be your major. Like you may shift. I thought I was going in the CIA. I thought I was going into law or the military. And I did an opposite thing. So be open to that. And then don't worry about it too much. Honestly, poor college seniors. I have a friend who I just ran into as a rising senior. And I did not purposely ask them about college because they get asked that a lot. So just be nice to people that ask you about it, but I get that it's really too much. But it's not, this is just one way station in a very long life, right? Don't worry, just enjoy yourself. Senior year should be fun, I would think.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, just picking up on what you said, it's very hard. I wish I'd learned this when I was much younger, but nothing's ever as good or as bad as it seems. And try not to fall in love with anyone's school. Apply to a bunch. I only had one option because I needed to live at home because I didn't have any money. So I applied to UCLA and I didn't get in and I was just devastated. And my mom said, "Is there anything we can do?" And I'm like, "Of course, there's nothing we can do. I've been rejected." And she found out there was an appeal process and I appealed and I got in. And that's the reason I'm here with you.

But apply to a bunch of schools and then be a consumer. Keep in mind, once you get into hopefully more than one school, they need you more than you need them and start playing them off against each other for financial aid. Because keep in mind, despite our cardigans and nobility and this veneer that we're public servants, we are fucking whores that will attempt to soak you and your family for all your disposable income. So do this: get into two or three schools and then call all of them and say, "What financial aid can you offer me?" And play them off against each other. That's my advice around college, too.

In terms of a core skill that you want to develop while you have some extra time, the one skill that will endure. It's not computer science. It's not civics. It's not math. It's the following: it's storytelling. So if you have the opportunity to journal, to write for your school newspaper, to give presentations, to learn PowerPoint, whatever it is, try and take some time to really, if you can, develop your communication skills. Because that storytelling is the core competence that will endure the test of time.

And then on a personal note, the thing I wish I had done—you know, there's all these things on TikTok saying that 90% of the time you will spend with your kids is from zero to 18. And so when your kid's 17 or 18, and I think about this a lot, I'm like, 80% of the time I have with my 16-year-old is gone. It's probably more like 90% because it's already spent. And I wasn't ready for it, and it's been very upsetting for me. What I would say to someone who's a senior in high school is flip that. And that is the majority of your time with your parents is coming to an end. And something I wish I had done, I don't know how you were, I wish I'd been kinder to my mother that last year. Because there's a very natural instinct when you're a teenage girl or teenage boy to, I don't want to say be unkind, but you're starting to rebel a little bit. And you're starting to find everything that your parents do is being really uncool.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: And when I look back, especially, you know, single mom struggling, I wish I'd just been a little kinder.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's sweet. I have to say my kids were kind because COVID happened. And so I spent a lot of time with them by need. That was the greatest. The only gift of COVID was that we spent so much time together. And then they formed a lot of bonds with my littler kids. And so that was a gift. And I agree. You should totally spend time with your parents. Parents are probably cool since you're so cool.

The last thing I would say is you don't have to go to college. There's other choices, right?

Scott Galloway: Oh, this young woman is going to college, Kara.

Kara Swisher: No, she is. But I'm just saying, you don't have to go that year. Like, Louie took a year off for the COVID thing. You know, you could do a lot of things. Like, don't rush into adulthood. Don't be a juvenile and spend all your parents' money. But, you know, get a job. You know you could do other things necessarily. But you know, you really do have one life. This is just one of the things on it. And that what you should think about. Otherwise, we're glad we challenged you and being a big influence on you. Again, I apologize for Scott's penis jokes, but you're going to get those in life, and so you need to start understanding that now.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, something tells me she's heard worse. But yeah, apply to a bunch of schools, get on the debate team, and hang out and be nice to your parents while you're still at home.

Kara Swisher: Thank you, Sage. That is lovely. It makes us feel better. You're actually helping us more than we're helping you. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own you'd like answered and it has to be as good as Sage's, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for your prediction.

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Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Scott Galloway: I wanted to get back to my knitting and make a prediction about business. I think an activist investor is going to pop up at one of the most storied, strongest brands in the world. And that brand is Nike.

So essentially, Nike had one of its biggest one-day stock drops. The five-year return for Nike stock is negative 13%. The S&P has doubled. It's lost half its market value in just the past three years. Its net profit margins have declined nearly 2% over the past year.

Kara Swisher: Because of HOKAs.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I mean, this company has just been hit incredibly hard. It's down more than 30% year to date. It expects a 10% decline in revenue this quarter, single-digit decline. I mean, Nike's down 30%. I think Adidas is up 20%. After reporting earnings last quarter, Nike plummeted nearly 20%. It's worst trading day since going public since 1980. It has now become the worst performer in the Dow Jones Index.

And when you look at the power of this brand, I mean, it's lost share, a little bit of growth to new brands, upstart brands like On.

Kara Swisher: Did you see the Zendaya ad with the player? What's the name?

Scott Galloway: My favorite is Roger Federer.

Kara Swisher: Federer. Yeah, it's her and Federer. That's who it is.

Scott Galloway: Oh, yeah.

Kara Swisher: In the On ad. It's fantastic.

Scott Galloway: Federer has made more money through On than he's made in his entire career as a tennis player. But anyways, if you look at it, On running enterprise value to EBITDA trades at 48 times. Decker's, the owners of Hoka, is at 22. Adidas is at 29. Nike is at 17. And Nike's average over the last five years is 27. So in addition to the underperformance, the stock has been beaten up enough that I think it's now a very juicy target for an activist.

Kara Swisher: Oh, interesting.

Scott Galloway: So my prediction isn't that Nike will continue to underperform or overperform. My prediction is that one of the greatest global brands over the last 30 years, its EBITDA or its valuation is now at a point where it's becoming a dinner bell for an activist. So my prediction is in the next 90 days, somebody is going to file a 13D and say, "Hi, we're here and we're concerned at Nike."

Kara Swisher: Yeah, that's—you know, the CEO is John Donahoe, who is a tech CEO. He was at a bunch of different tech companies. I know him pretty well. I do have to say, I know some Nike people, and they have been complaining about him for a while. He's got the support of Phil Knight, and that's the founder. And that's what he's got. But I've heard a lot of disgruntlement within Nike about him. I just literally recently heard from like six or seven people there. And I like John, but he's definitely having a troubling time.

Scott Galloway: It's a really interesting problem. It'd be unprecedented that something like that lost market share, correct? They're facing some of the same problems like an Estee Lauder, right?

Kara Swisher: I think China's 10 or 15% of the business.

Scott Galloway: China's down.

Kara Swisher: But Nike, which is an incredible brand, the space has actually done pretty well as a whole.

Scott Galloway: So investors, I would bet that John has 12 months to figure this out. Otherwise, he will be removed from his position. But this is a classic activist. Some of the biggest players in the world, like an Elliott or an Nelson Peltz, the thing they're gonna love about this is because it has a $111 billion market cap, they can put a billion dollars to work here and no one even notices. And what they do is they come in and they say, "We here, we love the brand. There's tremendous value to be unlocked here. And we are, quote unquote, concerned." And they basically meet with John and say, "What are your plans, John?" And based on that meeting, they either go, "Okay, he hit a rough patch but he's the right guy," and they say, "Okay, we're giving you 12 months to figure it out." Or they go, "Our worst fears have been realized here."

I mean, they can go meet with Salesforce and they meet Mark Benioff and they go, "Okay, this guy's smart. He just shoved too many calories down the esophagus of this company. They need to trim some fat. We'll give them some cloud cover to make some hard decisions." And boom, I think the stock's up 50 or 80% since whatever, since Elliott went in there, they leave. Thanks very much. Or they're going to go in and say, "This is the wrong guy," and go hostile right away. But this brand, there are so few iconic brands of this stature, this heritage, this legacy that have seen their value cut in half. It's just too tempting for an activist not to come in here.

Kara Swisher: Oh, great, great prediction. It's really interesting. I have a little prediction. You and I are going to be in the theater on November 22nd when Gladiator 2 comes out.

Scott Galloway: Have you seen the trailer?

Kara Swisher: I was not expecting you to say that.

Scott Galloway: I understand that—it's Paramount Pictures. Yay, Paramount. It's going to be a big—it looks so good. Pedro Pascal, this guy Paul Mescal who's playing in it, and Denzel Washington. It looks so fucking good. I'm so excited.

Kara Swisher: I'm going to take you to the opening if I get invited. I will get invited to the opening because I happen to know David Ellison, so I'm going to demand it. Even after all the shit posting we've done on Paramount.

Scott Galloway: Do you know the Ellison kid? They're going to invite—I'm going to be talking to David Ellison, I suspect, hopefully.

Kara Swisher: Great.

Scott Galloway: We're going.

Kara Swisher: David Ellison, we would like tickets to the opening. We want to go to the big premiere. We'll dress up in gladiator outfit. We will go. We'll bring Sage with us.

Scott Galloway: I've been calling everybody I know trying to get finals to the championship in Berlin.

Kara Swisher: The other movie I'm excited about is Beetlejuice.

Scott Galloway: Oh, yeah.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, yeah. That's coming out. Justin Theroux's in it.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I love Justin Theroux and I think he's super talented.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's a sequel. So I'm excited about that. It looks fantastic.

Scott Galloway: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, I know sequels are kind of tired, but I don't care. Gladiator is my favorite movie of all time. And that, too, looks fan-fucking-tastic. Pedro Pascal, that's all you got to tell me. And, like, Sword and Sandals.

Scott Galloway: He's great.

Kara Swisher: Anyway.

Scott Galloway: Sword and Sandals. I love Sword and Sandals. I watch The Robe. I watch all the Sword and Sandals. I love them all. I love them every single one of them.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, I am Spodicus. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Would you please read us out?

Scott Galloway: Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Travis Larchuk. Ernie Dretat engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mia Severio. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

If you're a senior in high school, your time with your parents is not coming to an end, but it's going to substantially decrease. Leave on a high note. Be nice. Be calm. Hey, mom. Hey, dad. Let's grab dinner. Some things never go out of style, like trust, reliability, and driving a Toyota. Take the legendary RAV4 and Grand Highlander, designed for maximum space. Hurry in. Offers end September 30th. Toyota. Let's go places.