Elon’s Taxes, Infrastructure Week at Last, and Friend of Pivot, Mark Mahaney

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I'm an insufferable... Numsco. Numsco. I'm an insufferable...

Kara Swisher: I don't think you're insufferable. Are you insufferable? What was it? Let's break this down. So FYI, my Twitter started blowing up last night, and I said, oh, Elon's called you out. And our producer is the one that gave me the heads up, Lara. Yeah. And so I went on, and he called me an insufferable numbskull. And I looked up numbskull because I wasn't entirely sure what it meant.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. It means foolish and stupid. And I think I want your opinion here. I think I'm more foolish than stupid. What do you think?

Kara Swisher: Well, oh, that's a hard one. That's a tough one?

Scott Galloway: I think it's an easy one.

Kara Swisher: No, foolish. Foolish for sure. 100%. Why are you foolish?

Scott Galloway: Well, you have said you were stupid about Tesla stock, and I have pointed it out several times. Like, you were wrong, not stupid.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, but I didn't understand, quite frankly, what was going on. I didn't understand why he and his army of flying monkeys were coming after me. He gets it into his head sometimes, I think.

Scott Galloway: Well, I had put out what I thought was a fairly innocuous tweet saying that kind of a page out of the CEO big tech playbook is they never want to take responsibility for their actions, including selling stock.

Kara Swisher: Oh, yeah.

Scott Galloway: And I think what's happening here is that – so Elon Musk now has, I think, about $200 billion for the Tesla stock. He was given so many options as part of his comp package that when they expire, he'll exercise them because they're hugely in the money.

Kara Swisher: Right.

Scott Galloway: But that triggers a taxable event, the delta between the strike price and what the stock is trading at, which means he will probably have somewhere between a $5 and $10 billion tax liability.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: And what he could do, what he could do easily is borrow against his holdings $10 billion at probably 0.5% to pay his tax bill. So he could basically borrow money for free to pay his tax bill. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Kara Swisher: What's the thing?

Scott Galloway: Some very smart people who manage his money have said to him, look – If your stock got cut by 90%, Tesla would be worth more than General Motors and Ford still. So we have to model out the possibility that just as your stock has gone up 10x in the last 24 months, it could get cut by 90%. And if you had all of this money, and he's probably been borrowing against his money – I'm sorry, borrowing against his stock for a while. If you have $20 billion in debt and your holdings go from being worth $200 billion to $20 billion, this could be a really, really ugly scenario for us. So they've modeled it out. And he's obviously decided, and by the way, it's the smart thing to do. And it's his stock. He's entitled to sell it. But instead of taking responsibility for saying, I want to diversify, I need to pay some taxes. And he has said this, the stock is fully valued.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, he said he's going to pay taxes. He says, Twitter, you tell me what to do.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I know. Over the weekend, he put out a Twitter poll asking me you should sell 10% of his Tesla stock. Scott, you tweeted he's using the Twitter results as a cloud cover to monetize Tesla prices that he knows aren't sustainable without outright telling the market he's lost faith in its valuation, although he has said that somewhat. He has said it. And then he has said – then he did you. This has happened before. I've seen it happen before many times. So Lara pointed out – and let's just call out the elephant in the room. The sexual tension between the two of us is palpable. It's palpable.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. Now I'm going to tweet again. And I've got to be honest. Last night I did have a sex dream about Elon. I was running my hands through his chest hair we were in a hermetically sealed container 30 feet below the Martian surface recognizing that we were about to die a horrific death either from asteroids or increased radiation or gravitational pull that was melting our bones and neurons but you know what? we had each other, Kara we had each other so this is what I'm going to do no, I'm going to take over wait a sec I'm going to get us away from the weird section we had about Elon Here's what Elon told me last month. He's talking to me, probably not now. Here's what Elon told me last month at Code regarding his, by the way, Elon, I'm not his mama. He does whatever he wants, so don't blame me. Here's what Elon told me at Code regarding his Tesla stock. I have a bunch of options that are expiring early next year, so a huge block of options will sell in Q4, because I have to or they'll expire. and my top marginal tax rate is 53%. So there you go.

Scott Galloway: Well, okay, but here's the problem. And again, another page out of the playbook. He just in time to monetize the wealth of the wealthiest man in the world, he's decided to piece out to Texas. He's no longer a California resident. He became a resident of Texas in October, just in time to start selling some of that 200 billion. But you know what happened? I thought my Twitter was gonna absolutely go crazy and the trolls are gonna come from me. But he decided to take another 10 milligrams of CBD. And did you see the tweet he put out to Ron Wyden last night?

Kara Swisher: Yes, I did. That was something else.

Scott Galloway: Okay. So Senator Wyden basically said, well, something along the lines of, well, maybe you should just pay your taxes and this is justification.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, which is common among the politicians. They do that all the time. For the well tax.

Scott Galloway: And you know what he wrote back?

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: How come your peepee look like it just come? So here's a little bit of color on Senator Ron Wyden. His father fled Nazis. Senator Wyden was a scholar athlete, which means he was very disciplined and in amazing shape. And he has been reelected four times to the greatest deliberative body on this planet or any other planet. So Elon, shut the fuck up.

Kara Swisher: Oh, goodness. Okay. All right. Yes, that was not in good taste, I would say. But Twitter is not in good taste. That is true. So you don't want to be on a white. He's in bad taste. This is not Twitter's fault.

Scott Galloway: No, no, no, no. That was a bad effect. What do young people think of our connective tissue, our government, when the wealthiest man in the world starts tweeting at the head of the Senate Finance Committee, which I would argue on a risk-adjusted basis isn't great for shareholders, saying, how come your PP looked like it just come? America, everybody. That's our role model. A lot of our leaders were tweeting at Big Bird for supportive COVID vaccines. Ted Cruz called it propaganda. An Arizona state senator called it flat out Big Bird as a communist. This has happened before with Big Bird, by the way. That was an interesting segue. Are you trying to protect Elon for fear he's not going to come on stage with you again?

Kara Swisher: No, I am not. You may. No, no, no. Are you practicing access journalism?

Scott Galloway: No, I'm not. Are you trying to put a chain on the dog?

Kara Swisher: No, no. Have I stopped you from saying anything you wanted about Elon Musk?

Scott Galloway: No.

Kara Swisher: You've tried to save me from myself, actually, a few times. Aswath, actually, who was on that last week, previously weighed in on Tesla. Here's what he said here. Let me give you some cover here. Go ahead, Aswath.

[Audio clip plays]

Aswath Damodaran: I've described Tesla as the ultimate story stalk, a stalk you buy because you like the story and you like the person telling the story. And fundamentally, this is what it boils down to. If you believe in Elon Musk, you're buying Tesla. And this is where the moment of reckoning is going to come, because I think Tesla has some real strength. I mean, what other car company in the world would announce a car that's not going to come out for two years and 400,000 people put a thousand, a thousand five hundred dollars down to get that car? They've got this rabid customer base. The key for them is, can they actually deliver? Because that's always been the weakness. I mean, they can they have great vision, but the nuts and bolts stuff, they seem to have trouble.

[End audio clip]

Kara Swisher: All right. There's Oswald supporting you. And then Elon. It's a great car. I own one. I own one. You noted that in your tweet back to him, which he has not responded to. Elon has tweeted before, by the way, speaking of support for Scott, Tesla's stock price is too high. So anyway, he has done that. I think he just – I think he might get on Twitter and be – It feels like someone else is rubbing their fingers through Elon's chest hair.

Scott Galloway: Well, in any case, I think he just does this just – he said this on stage to me. He does it just to bug people. He just does it. I'm thinking of tweeting at him a picture of me shirtless with hair. In exchange, he needs to send a picture of me shirtless with hair. I'm thinking 2000, 2001. What do you think? I know it's in his camera roll.

Kara Swisher: No. I know it's in his camera roll. You need to be as restrained as Big Bird is. That's how I would say it. I need to show more grace?

Scott Galloway: Yes. I agree. You know what? That's a fair point. He's just piling on to those idiots who always attack you and say they have like stock things that are opposite. Hey, you know what? Whatever. You know what? You know what? You get out there and say your piece. and people, you get out on the field and the rest of them sit around and yell at you from the edges. You know what? It's okay. I'm being very serious now. It's okay to have enemies as long as they're more powerful than you. Otherwise, it's just bullying. I thought it was good. I thought that was good. I thought it was fine. Whatever. It's fine to be called a numbskull by Elon Musk. Did you see my challenge as I'm virtue signaling now?

Kara Swisher: No. What was your challenge?

Scott Galloway: No. I told him that I would give $10 million to the University of California, which he has benefited from, if he matched me. So Elon, there's the challenge. You give $10 million to the University of California. I will do the same. And we can both continue to support the infrastructure for great companies of which you have benefited massively, known as the Cal State system and the University of California.

Kara Swisher: I like that. You're a ball boss. That's a useful thing. But that's not going to happen. He might surprise us. Some of his friends who don't like you, and there's several of his friends that don't like you. And he was just –

Scott Galloway: Well, what about if I prove that every woman –

Kara Swisher: I'm just saying that's what was happening.

Scott Galloway: What about if I could prove to him for $7 billion that every woman of color in the South would have access to, say, family planning? Would he fund it? Would he fund it?

Kara Swisher: I don't know. He'd like the data, please. Just like World Hunger? Didn't he say he would fund that?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, he said he wants the data. He said if he got the plan.

Kara Swisher: I think I can give him the data on that. All right. Well, let's see if he responds to you. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. You had a throwdown with him. But that's good. Like you said, if people are attacking you from the top, but you're in good shape, it's fine. That's right. That's right. That's right. By the way, Tesla's lock is slipping as we record this, just so you know.

Scott Galloway: Well, what a shocker. Ford, General Motors, Daimler, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Kia, Tata Motors, Boeing, Airbus, JetBlue, Delta, American Airlines, and throw in, I don't know, every specialty retail in America. Tesla's worth more than all those companies combined.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: All right. You keep going. You keep Don Quixote, you insufferable. At some point, I will be right. At some point, I will be right.

Kara Swisher: You insufferable numbskull. I'm not insufferable. People like the dog.

Scott Galloway: No, you're a sufferable numbskull.

Kara Swisher: I'm totally sufferable. That was unfair. Elon, take off the inn. I kind of suffered with the dog. I didn't know what was going on. Anyway, it was very funny that you didn't even know it was happening. I looked at it. I'm like, oh, Jesus.

Scott Galloway: Oh, nice.

Kara Swisher: I went to see the Washington Spirit, which is the women's soccer team. I took the Golden Child to it.

Scott Galloway: Oh, no.

Kara Swisher: It was very nice. And I looked at it, and I was like, oh, no. And the golden child went, oh, no. And I said, oh, God. And she went, oh, God. Okay, let's talk about the show. I feel much better now. So just very briefly, Senators Klobuchar and Cotton, two people you do not imagine ever sitting, going to a bar and suffering each other, introduced a bill to fight tech monopolies and only tech monopolies. I find this problematic. But the bill would make it harder for giant companies to buy up smaller competitors. It would also apply to companies with a valuation over $600 billion. That's only tech giants. Walmart, Visa, and J.P. Morgan are below the line. I don't know. Everybody's a tech giant, in my opinion.

Scott Galloway: So first off, I just want to highlight an actual incredible role model for men. Amy Klobuchar, who does the work and has grace and is unafraid. She's a fantastic role model for young men.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, she is.

Scott Galloway: I love this, except it's bad legislation because here's the thing. Any trust should be a function of you diminishing market power and competitiveness. It shouldn't be based on size. There are some companies that are $2 trillion companies that should be allowed to acquire other companies. And there are companies that are $30 billion that should have their acquisitions blocked because they are locking up and creating a less competitive environment in their smaller sector.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, this dog won't hunt. This isn't – an economist for the other side is going to rip this apart.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, agreed. I think it's problematic in any way.

Kara Swisher: You know, these are the moves, the beginning of changing antitrust. Who knows all the strategery going on here? There's a lot going on.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, a lot going on.

Kara Swisher: So anyway, it's interesting the two of them are together and they're going to push for something. And we'll see where it comes out. But there is antitrust legislation coming, I suspect. I don't think they're doing this because they're idiots. But in any case, it's rather interesting. It's a rather interesting bill. There's a lot of these bills now. We'll see where any of them go. Now, of course, we'll be talking in a minute about the infrastructure bill, etc. But first, let's do the big story, the latest in COVID treatment. The new antiviral pill from Pfizer could be a pandemic game changer, a pill. Pfizer's pill treats COVID symptoms, is said to cut the risk of hospitalization or death by 89%, which I think is the point of these things. Not that it's going away. It's becoming endemic and we have to deal with it. A clinical trial was stopped early because results were so convincing. saying now Pfizer says it will submit its pill to the FDA for approval in the U.S. Merck also has a pill, though it's less effective. And the U.S. lifted travel restrictions for vaccinated people from a long list of countries, including Mexico, Canada, and most of Europe. Seems like things are doing rather well, even though everyone thinks Biden's an idiot. It seems to be moving forward. I was just, this morning I was noticing everybody was out and about last night too. Everybody feels good. People were masking inappropriate, but at the same time, everybody, like my local coffee The city place was full of people hanging, talking, chatting. It's a beautiful day. So what do you think Will it embolden anti They just say if I get COVID I take the pill And then lastly I sorry Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers oh admitted he unvaccinated And Terry Bradshaw got mad at him calling him a liar

Scott Galloway: Well, not only that, but, you know, I'm thinking about getting a procedure done. So, of course, I called Joe Rogan. That's where he really stepped in it, was he said, in his defense, he goes, wait, I called Joe Rogan to get advice.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Scott Galloway: Well, look, let me back up. Several people are lying about their vaccinations, which is interesting. There's some doubt. We immediately, and I understand this, go to the downside of this thing. Like, could it create more vaccine hesitancy? The bottom line is, this is a wonderful thing. And some of the most wonderful periods of prosperity have come directly out of crisis, whether it was the great fires of London spawning an era of beautiful architecture, World War II kept the peace, some investments we made. I think the progress around vaccinations and pharmaceutical research is going to be a real silver lining here. And the thought that we might have a pill that can reduce death by 90 percent. There's also – you know what got glossed over this week is a company announced they're in late-stage clinical trials of what is effectively, effectively, Cara, a cure for HIV. Not a prophylactic, not something to suppress it, but something that could actually eliminate it. And I have two close friends, including the godfather of my children who was open about his HIV status. And this is just a wonderful, joyous thing that science and what's disappointing, and people have the right to not get vaccinated, but what is disappointing is that we have lost so much faith in the closest thing we have to a truth, and that is the iterative peer review practice called science. And it just – I think that – I've been thinking a lot about role models and male role models and the fact that once you get a certain following, people listen to you. And I think we've just created so much mistrust and doubt around our institutions, whether it's the Senate, whether it's doctors and medicine. And that is just terrible, terrible for America. So while people continue this bullshit pseudoscience, I'm a junior epidemiologist because I used to call WWE fights. And I have a huge following, which gives me expertise around shit. I mean, I love this guy, Joel Stein, who I think is a genius. I asked him what he thought of the political situation. He said, I have no fucking idea and you shouldn't ask me. I don't know anything about politics. And I love that he said that. He said, I just don't know anything about this. And because I have a little bit of a following doesn't mean I'm qualified and it's a good lesson to me.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, people do seem to. What are we doing when we're attacking our institutions? And meanwhile, our institutions continue to march on and do really good work. The pharmaceutical industry and doctors are doing great work. Well, it's interesting because, you know, the Terry Bradshaw thing was interesting. And of course, people were dragging Terry Bradshaw. I didn't see that. Can you say more about it?

Scott Galloway: He said, you lied to everybody. I give Aaron Rodgers some advice. It would have been nice if he'd just come to the Naval Academy and learn how to be honest, learn not to lie because that's what you did, Aaron. You lied to everyone. I'm extremely disappointed in the actions of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers, who tested positive for coronavirus realty, had not been vaccinated after saying earlier in the season he was immunized.

Kara Swisher: Well, you know what? The coaches and the staff have to get vaccinated. But people were giving Terry Bradshaw a hard time. I don't think he's just saying it.

Scott Galloway: Terry Bradshaw, that was a real fucking football team. The Pittsburgh Steelers, the Uncurtain, bring back Lynn Swan. I thought those guys were amazing. Anyways, I love – I'm obviously biased here. But this, again, is double standard for rich people and influential people. All the staff, you have to be – do you realize there's going to be another mixed MMA, is that what it's called, fight at Madison Square Garden? It's totally sold out. You have to be vaccinated per New York state law, except Joe Rogan has managed to get an exemption. He gets to go to that fight without a vaccine. Whatever. But here's the deal. He should have said he did. He said he was vaccinated and he wasn't. And the NFL, this is the story, has different protocols for vaccinated, unvaccinated players. Rogers had reported him participating in protocols for the vaccinated players and was, you know, so that's that's really that's that's right. Like, come on, just say you're not because they have these protocols. And so then we're a nation divided politically or divided nation on the COVID-19 or whether or not to take the vaccine. And unfortunately, we've got players that pretty much think only about themselves. Look, you don't have to take the frigging vaccine if you want to. Whatever. Just stay at home and isolate. Just whatever. Just fuck. But he doesn't like the rules and he doesn't like the things, so he's lying. That does cross some sort of weird line that is just weird. It's just weird. He's got a zillion celebrity girlfriends, by the way, this guy. Anyway.

Kara Swisher: That's some compensation. I'm going to call my friend who loves the Green Bay Packers and see what she thinks. She'll probably defend him. He's an amazing athlete. Jesus Christ. Have you seen the arm on that guy?

Scott Galloway: Yes, absolutely.

Kara Swisher: So, I don't know. Just whatever. We're getting a pill. Everybody calm the fuck down. That's what I say. We're getting a nice, nice pill. You'll be able to take it, and we don't have to listen to your bullshit. That's great.

Scott Galloway: That is a really good—I have a new theory of commonality versus community. I'm thinking about writing something about this idea that, you know what? We have commonality. We don't all have to get along, but we do have some commonality, and we need to focus on that.

Kara Swisher: Well, there's more that unites us than divides us, Cara.

Scott Galloway: Well, we don't even have to have that many things. It's just like don't lie about your frigging COVID vaccine if you don't mind, and everyone can make their own decision.

Kara Swisher: You know, I had someone say something about a mask. I was in Virginia and someone said, you know, why are you wearing a mask? I said, you know what? I think you go on and about not wearing a mask. So fuck you, I can wear my mask if I want. I'm just, how do you like it on the other side? So it was interesting. I'm taking my 11 year old to get his vaccine next week. I'm very excited about it. Louis got his thing. He's getting his first one, right? His first one. Yeah, it was approved literally like last Monday and I've already tried to get an appointment and CVS I don't think is doing. I don't want to give misinformation, but it hasn't been easy to get an appointment. You know what? We're in the high 70s now. Everyone's sort of like, get over it or just take the pill eventually. Fine. Shut up. That's what I would like them all to do. Shut up. All these people who have to like do their little speeches, et cetera, et cetera. Just either. Don't take it. Just tell us the truth so we can make our decision. Aaron Rodgers, people have a right not to take it. Then they should implement certain protocols around themselves because you're more likely to spread it when you're not vaccinated. And so you're not being a good citizen when you pretend everything that you're vaccinated and you aren't. I think that's the issue here. We're at 50 percent vaccinated. I think you think we're higher than that. I heard we're at 58 percent of eligible adults.

Scott Galloway: OK, so one dose, 67.7 percent and fully vaccinated, 60 percent. So that's higher than it was.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. One doses. You have 50 to 100, call it 50 to 100 million people have chosen not to get the vaccine who could. and you're talking probably about somewhere between 500,000 and 5 million people who either die or have long COVID because of vaccine hesitation. So I just, and instead we have decided, we have decided to move authority. We have transferred authority and trust from our CDC and doctors and epidemiologists to celebrities who are, have all of a sudden decided to listen to the axis of misinformation, Trump, News Corp, and Facebook, and have decided that, oh, I don't need, I don't want to take a vaccine. And it's just incredibly disappointing around that what I'd call transfer of influence. It just says something strange about our nation right now.

Scott Galloway: In any case, Rupert Murdoch requires people to have had a nose swab at his party. You have to have a nose swab to go to Rupert Murdoch's party. Just the parallels. Let me take to the airwaves and tell you it's your liberty. I'm not happy. You know what I would do? I'd go to that party and knock it. I'd say, no. What are you going to do about it? Liberty! Liberty! Liberty!

Kara Swisher: All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll discuss the latest news in Congress. Then we'll talk to a friend of Pivot about tech stocks. I'm sufferable. I'm sufferable, Carol.

Scott Galloway: Sufferable. You're still a numbskull.

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Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with our second big story. Congress actually did something Friday. The House passed the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Now it goes to President Biden to be signed into law. Let's listen.

[Audio clip plays]

Speaker: Finally, infrastructure week.

[End audio clip]

Kara Swisher: As he said, it is finally infrastructure week. After all our waiting, the House hasn't approved the Build Back Better bill yet. A handful of centrists say they'll vote for the bill. Gets okayed by Congress's accounting arm. Progressives accuse centrists of moving the goalposts, whatever. The bill has some in the crypto world worried. It could open the industry up to more regulation. It's not clear what will happen when the Treasury uses to clamp down on crypto. Big issue. Of course, another big issue for tech is the $65 billion for broadband access. If COVID is over, by this time next year, will broadband still matter? Yes, it will. Or will it be back to a mobile first place? Broadband will matter. The bill has lots of funding for cybersecurity. There's lots of bipartisan support there. And now the infrastructure bill has passed. Do Biden and his allies have any leverage to get Bill back better through? I think they will. I think they will. What do you think, Scott?

Scott Galloway: Well, you know, and we – so, by the way, we predicted this last week. But you know who's most responsible for this bill passing yesterday or Friday? Governor McAuliffe.

Kara Swisher: Oh, all right.

Scott Galloway: Specifically him losing an election. He should have won. All of a sudden was the mother of all wake-up calls for Democrats. And it's no accident that 48 hours after – over the weekend after they find out that Democrats who should have won't have lost, they got their shit together and passed this thing. So I hope it gives Governor McAuliffe some comfort knowing that his loss was a wake-up call and the Democrats are finally pulling together. But this – we said this last week. We said in the next 48 hours, there's going to be more progress on these bills than in the last 48 days. And you know you're getting old. I actually got emotional when I heard this passed. This is going to be –

Kara Swisher: Did you?

Scott Galloway: It's going to provide $550 billion in new funding for infrastructure projects, including bridges, broadband, and electric vehicle charging stations.

Kara Swisher: Oh, what do you know? We're subsidizing the wealthiest man in the world. Anyways, different point.

Scott Galloway: And represents the biggest federal investments in infrastructure in more than a decade. It'll be paid mostly with COVID relief funds that haven't been spent and a crackdown on taxes on, get this, for crypto trading. It'll still add a quarter of a trillion dollars in projected deficits over the next 10 years. Quite frankly, I think this is the kind of thing that deficits should be used for, and that is making investments in the future. But infrastructure is literally like, what operating system do you want to program on top of? Do you want to program on top of, I don't know what the latest thing is, PPP or DOS?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, our country's been woefully behind in this. Yeah, and it's an investment in the middle class in America, helping people get to work, helping them spend more time with their families, helping them be more productive in their startups. And what we've decided is, okay, rich people can create their own mini infrastructures, but you have to have bridges, and tunnels, and infrastructure, and clean water such that ordinary families can get to the good work of making money and cementing relationships. So I think it's wonderful. Congratulations to them. I hope it's inspiration for the other bill to get through.

Kara Swisher: I'm excited about it. I don't know if it's such... It's really interesting. Someone was tweeting something I thought was pretty smart yesterday, where they were like, Biden's got everybody vaccinated. Pretty much. A lot of people vaccinated. Passed this infrastructure bill. We're out of Afghanistan. A mess though it was. We're out. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot that they can use for the midterms. Still probably in trouble for the midterms, because they'll pull on some cultural whatever the hell they want to pull on. But it's really... I think it was a good thing. Now we'll see what happens with Build Back Better.

Scott Galloway: What do you think about that one?

Kara Swisher: I don't know enough about the politics of it.

Scott Galloway: I think we're going to get something there. I think the most exciting thing about that is that, and I didn't even know if this was possible, but if the child tax credits stay in there, you could have a reduction in child poverty of 62%. Like, I didn't even think that was possible to figure out a bill that could do that. So I think that Senators Bennett and Klobuchar don't get enough credit, and Senator Warren had a lot to do with it. And also the person that doesn't get the credit, my view, that he deserves for this is Andrew Yang, because let's be honest, this is a form of UBI light. And because he kind of pushed – he set the goalposts of like, let's just give money to everybody. Giving money to – selectively so it's not universal. It's targeted basic income for people under a certain income. No one would have dared try this. They would have called it European or socialist. But America's becoming comfortable with the fact that in an economy where digitization and innovation and education and certification are so important, and certain people just naturally have more access than others. And then you couple that with a conscious decision to transfer wealth from poor people to rich people, from young to old. We're going to end up with homeless encampments off the 405 freeway in Los Angeles. And people are recognizing, okay, we probably are going to have to use the R word, redistribution, here.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. So there's been a change in mindset.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I think so, for sure.

Kara Swisher: I think there has been. At the same time, there's still some things outstanding. I was just noticing the stores aren't stocked very well. It's really interesting. It's the first time I've noticed it. I mean, of course, my son is on sort of a consumer bent, like we're such gross consumers. But there are some in terms of employment and whether people are going to work and this and that, and whether the stock market's too frothy, et cetera. So I think we should just tread. We have to look like we have a stable government that can function. That's really, I think, one of the parts that will make us all feel a little calmer and get out of this endless cycle of fear and rage, which we are in right now.

[Music fades out]

Kara Swisher: Anyway, speaking of which, the stock market, let's bring in our friend of Pivot, Mark Mahaney. Mark is an analyst and author who covered internet stocks since 1998. He's been called, quote, one of the top investment analysts on Wall Street. He revealed some of his tips on investing rather than trading in his new book, *Nothing But Net*. Hey, Scott, I think I'll let you start since, Scott, you are the stock man, apparently. The insufferable stock man.

Scott Galloway: Mark. Yes, yes. Mark. Mark is a friend. I can call you that, right, Mark?

Mark Mahaney: Yes, you can.

Scott Galloway: And he is the top internet analyst slowly through attrition. There used to be dozens of you. Now it's like Mark and some 14-year-old on Reddit that are the premier stock analysts in the world. But Mark really is the gangster here. So Mark, let's talk about the big guys: Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google. And let's throw in Microsoft and Netflix just for shits and giggles. Who do you think is overvalued and undervalued in the space?

Mark Mahaney: Okay. You know, for long-term investors, I think most of these tech platforms are enduring. So I just try to find which one at any one point in time is most dislocated, because I think their fundamentals don't generally change that much. They've only gotten stronger over the last two, five, and ten years. So the top pick would be the one that's most dislocated. In my mind today, that's Facebook and then Amazon. I think Netflix is relatively close to being fully valued. I don't cover Microsoft and Apple. That leaves Google. And Google is reasonably valued, but it's not a screaming buy here.

Kara Swisher: And the Facebook issues don't concern you? You think the headline risk is reflected in the PE and that it's a decent buy? And that Amazon, even at a forward PE of 60, is actually a decent buy? You like those two the most?

Mark Mahaney: Yeah, I do. And so Facebook, from an investor perspective, trades at something like a 25 percent discount to Google, even though they have a similar growth profile. So the market's already pricing in a lot of regulatory and reputational risk into Facebook shares. And the market may well be right. But as an investor looking at it, you've got a fair amount of downside protection. Amazon as a stock has traded sideways. It's flatlined for almost 18 months now. And the businesses continue to grow. And it's deep in investment mode now. So I think that valuation can be a little bit misleading. I think when you get a good core asset, if you were to pick one of these companies and hold it for the next five years, the one with the best market opportunities, the best management team, best track record, you'd pick Amazon. And when you see an Amazon that's traded sideways for 18 months, that's the stock to buy. The most compelling long in that group.

Kara Swisher: So when he talks about Facebook being priced in, can you explain to people who are furious at Facebook why Wall Street doesn't care? Obviously, it's just there to make money, but explain that clearly.

Mark Mahaney: Yeah. So, Kara, you're saying why Wall Street doesn't care about the reputational issues, the ESG complications around Facebook. And my answer to you is, well, if you look at the numbers, Wall Street actually does care. So if you look at the valuation of Facebook versus Google, again, these two stocks have very similar growth profiles. They're probably going to grow their earnings 20 to 30 percent. And the market is willing to pay 25 percent less for Facebook than they are for Google because the market fears that there's going to be some sort of event out there that's going to dramatically reduce the earnings growth outlook for Facebook. Either it's going to be regulatory actions, some sort of breakup, some sort of business practice change. So I think the market is anticipating much greater risk for Facebook than it is for Google.

Scott Galloway: So Mark and I talk a decent amount. And I asked him, I think a year ago, I said, what's your favorite pick? And you doubled down on something that I can't stand. And that was Uber. And you were right. And I look at Uber and I think, here's a company that's never figured out a way to be profitable, has all sorts of headline risk, and yet you like it. You think it's a good buy. Your turn.

Mark Mahaney: Yeah, yeah. Good buy, not a good buy, but a good buy stock. Yeah, I like Uber. Look, when I dug into the history of internet companies, and I've covered them for 25 years, I tried to put together a couple of characteristics that I thought helped explain the successes and the failures along the way. Companies that face really large total addressable markets, or TAMs, that's pretty high up on my list. I prefer founder-led companies. That's obviously not Uber. But I think Dara Khosrowshahi is generally a very good manager. I've tracked him for a long period of time. Companies with compelling value propositions, i.e. people would pay more for them. Like Netflix, people were willing to tolerate price increases. And I think we've learned over the last year and a half, people are willing to pay more for Uber because the value proposition of ride-sharing is so high. I put these characteristics together, and Uber looks to me to be very interesting. And the stock, I'd say, is dislocated. I mean, the stock is well off its highs. And that's one of the things I try to do in this book. I go to investors and I say, look, you want to minimize two risks when you're investing in public markets: valuation risk and fundamentals risk. Fundamentals risk is companies that blow up on earnings, have dramatically decelerating revenue growth, margins plunge, et cetera. And then you want to try to hedge out or minimize valuation risk. And the way you do that is you identify high quality assets that are facing large market opportunities. That's Uber. I mean, there's $2 trillion plus markets that they're facing: delivery and ride sharing. And they're the global leader in most markets in those segments. That's a pretty good combination. The stock's dislocated. A lot of issues around it, but they're going to come out of COVID stronger. They just hit profitability. And I think you'll have a sea change in the number of investors that'll come in and buy it.

Kara Swisher: Right, but the profitability has got all these things hanging off of it. You all don't mind those, right? The earnings before everything.

Mark Mahaney: Yeah, that's true, Kara. But you first have to get the earnings before everything before you get to the earnings. It's like a leading indicator. So yes, we all at the end of the day want to see big chunks of free cash flow. A lot of companies go public in the tech space that aren't profitable. It doesn't mean they can't be profitable long term. So you have to figure out what's wrong with the business model that doesn't allow them to be profitable. Or maybe there isn't.

Kara Swisher: So you see their opportunities as bigger than their problems? That's behind them essentially?

Mark Mahaney: Right.

Kara Swisher: So what about the smaller player like a Lyft behind them? How do you look at the whole market in general?

Mark Mahaney: I always prefer the leader in the segment, but I like Lyft as a play. But Kara, this is one of the big lessons I had. Scale solves most problems in the internet space. You and I have looked at Amazon forever. There were investors who, for the first 10 years of that company, said there was no way that company will ever be profitable. The first year I worked on Wall Street at Morgan Stanley, the head of the bank stopped me in the hallway and said, "You know, Amazon will never be profitable." And he was the wisest investor on Wall Street. So he was probably right, but he wasn't, because scale solves almost everything. And it's going to do the same thing with Uber over time.

Kara Swisher: Okay. So, Bitcoin has better 10-year returns than Amazon and Facebook. How do you look at that? How do you figure that into what's happening? It is an internet stock really, aren't they? In a weird way, or internet investment type of.

Mark Mahaney: Yeah, I'm not smart enough to figure out Bitcoin.

Scott Galloway: That's what Scott says. You and me both.

Kara Swisher: So Mark, your thoughts on Airbnb, and I'd love to get your thoughts on two or three companies, sort of the new guys that you're excited about that should be on our radar screen that look like they could bust into that tier one.

Mark Mahaney: Airbnb is one of those. Spotify would be another one. Those are two kind of out there a little bit on the edge of names that could be, long-term, multiples higher than where they are today. Airbnb is a wonderful example of a founder-led company. Great product innovation. I mean, they've revolutionized the way that people can list their homes and residences for rent, and then people can find places to stay. They practically single-handedly created a new category of travel that's extremely broadly adopted by millennials. There's a lot of growth in Airbnb. Very profitable business model, almost too profitable, frankly. I think they should be investing in a lot of new long-term growth opportunities. They should be investing in business travel. They should be investing in experiences and in China. But I understand why they're not doing that near term. But I think long term, they should definitely be taking down those margins, investing for growth. I like Airbnb. It's a huge TAM, trillion-dollar-plus TAM. I love T-TAM companies, companies that are addressing, attacking trillion-dollar-plus market opportunities. Airbnb is one of them. Spotify is a great case, too. Here's a founder-led company. I mean, music is going to be on everybody's phone worldwide. Three billion smartphones. I think Spotify has the ability to be on half of those. That's a billion and a half. And they've shown how they can make money through both subscriptions and through advertising revenue. It's not that profitable, but let scale do its trick. Over time, this will be a nicely, very profitable business.

Kara Swisher: What about companies we've never heard of? What are some of the ones that you are looking at? What areas are you looking? Because one of the things is young people are doing their own thing, whether it's run up meme stocks like AMC or GameStop. How do you look at that trend with these younger investors who don't trust traditional investing? How do you imagine that's going to shake out?

Mark Mahaney: You know, one of the things that kind of inspired me to write this book is there's something like 15 million new investors that came into the market over the last two years during the COVID crisis. People were looking for things to do at home. And so there's a lot of this day trading that came up. There's nothing wrong with day trading and meme trading. I just think you can make just as much money investing in the market and not taking these pot shots at what are oftentimes just expectations games. Are you going to have more people buying the stock a week from now? The lesson I've picked from 25 years of looking at tech stocks: fundamentals matter. Companies that generate more revenue over time, more profits, those stocks go up. I know they can be very volatile at times, but that's the lesson. Amazon's gone up 166,000% since its IPO. A lot of volatility, but fundamentals got better. The stock got better. So that's what I try to get people to focus on. Focus on long-term investing because fundamentals do drive stocks.

Scott Galloway: Mark, I'm curious where you think of the whole iBuying phenomenon is. I mean, Zillow, I thought that was really interesting news. But it feels like the core business has never been healthier. Is this an opportunity to buy the stock off from 200 to 65? I know you follow Zillow. And then also, do you think that that blow up or miss, does that seem like it was specific to Zillow or do you think it could infect the entire space, including Open Door and others? Give us your thoughts on what happened in the iBuying space in the last couple of weeks.

Mark Mahaney: I listened to your Pivot last week when you talked about when you dissected what happened at Zillow. I think you largely got it right. I think this is specific and idiosyncratic to the company itself. This was a company with a great competency in generating marketing leads for real estate agents and helping consumers find the home of their dreams. And then they went into a different business, one that involved buying and selling homes and renovating homes. It's a very different set of competencies. That was always the risk behind Zillow. I made a mistake on this. I gave them the opportunity. I upgraded the stock a couple of months after they went into the iBuying opportunity. I thought that I knew there was execution risk, but I thought there was a big TAM expansion, total addressable market expansion. And they just shot themselves in the foot. I haven't seen this kind of mis-execution, this kind of blow up in such a short period of time.

Kara Swisher: Shocking, right? I mean, it really was shocking. I'm a big fan of Rich Barton. He's been a great entrepreneur.

Scott Galloway: Born of envy. Born of envy. That's why he did it.

Kara Swisher: It was not. It was because he thought he was missing something.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It seems like it.

Mark Mahaney: So I think the core business is attractive, but I don't think you can buy the stock now. I think this is going to be in the woodshed for probably a year or something like that. Probably need management change.

Kara Swisher: Which would come out of the woodshed.

Mark Mahaney: Which won't happen.

Kara Swisher: It's dual class shareholder, right?

Mark Mahaney: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: That won't happen, right?

Mark Mahaney: It could happen.

Kara Swisher: No, it won't happen.

Mark Mahaney: You're right.

Scott Galloway: Okay. This is a dangerous one. Mark, give me the bull case on Tesla.

Mark Mahaney: Yeah. Yeah. You know I don't cover Tesla, Scott.

Scott Galloway: We'll try. Come on. Come on. There's no way you don't read about Tesla. You have to have a view on Tesla. Today you do. The insufferable numbskull wants a view. Come on, let's go.

Mark Mahaney: Let's just step back a little bit. If you just think, is Tesla addressing a trillion dollar plus TAM? Yes. Do you have a founder-led company? Yes. Is it one of the most innovative product companies that we've seen of the last decade? Yes. Is it overvalued? Probably. I'm almost certain that it is near term. But again, I don't cover the stock.

Kara Swisher: Oh, Scott, I think you're in trouble. I think that was it.

Scott Galloway: Come on, my brother. Come on.

Kara Swisher: He's left you. He's left you.

Scott Galloway: Seriously, listen to the altar.

Kara Swisher: When you look at a lot of this legislation, now the billionaire's tax didn't pass, but there's lots of proposals. There's this Amy Klobuchar, Tom Cotton thing. There's all kinds of regulatory issues. How do you price those in? How do you think about where that's going? Because it's got to be part of your calculation. And do you think it's for the better? Scott makes the argument that breaking things up is for the better or some of this regulation is for the better. How do you look at it?

Mark Mahaney: Well, Kara, I absolutely think this regulatory focus is for the better. We've seen these are extremely powerful companies. We have to go back a long time before we've seen companies this relatively powerful. So absolutely they should be scrutinized. Some of them have developed into monopolies. Now, whether they've actually caused consumer harm, I think that's very unlikely. I know we can debate Facebook on that, but I think some of that debate has just gone way too one-sided. That's a personal view. But these companies should absolutely be regulated. They're extremely powerful companies. I don't think they should be broken up unless you find really good smoking guns on these names. The two that are, I think, most in the wheelhouse for regulators, probably for good reasons, are Google and Facebook. But for very different reasons. Google for antitrust reasons, Facebook for more for regulatory privacy reasons.

Scott Galloway: So I have a final question. Mark and I are friends and whenever we get together, we spend about 10% of our time talking about stocks and we spend the other 90% talking about being a dad to boys and kids. I'd really like to know, I think of you as a very soulful, wonderful father, Mark. I'd love to know what advice you have and what you've learned coming through COVID as a dad. What advice would you give to men raising kids?

Mark Mahaney: You can't spend enough time with your kids. I guess that's my takeaway. And I've got three teenage boys and one 21-year-old. And it's just precious. You won't get the time back. So spend as much time with them as you can. That's it. And lead by example. They watch what you do rather than what you say. And increasingly, sometimes it's hard to get them to listen to what you say, but they watch what you do. So do the right thing and they'll do the right thing too.

Kara Swisher: Very nice. Very nice. Can I ask you one last question? You didn't answer my question. One company we should be paying attention to, smaller, that you're like, "I'm entranced with that company."

Mark Mahaney: I thought you would sort of like my Spotify idea. I know it's a little on the...

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just, you know, like...

Mark Mahaney: Do you think it's an acquisition target?

Kara Swisher: No, I don't think so.

Mark Mahaney: I think it's got one-fourth. Here's the quick example I'd ask you to think about. It's got one-fourth of the market cap of Netflix. I love Netflix and I've covered it forever. And Spotify's got one-fourth. And just think about it. How many people around the world are going to want to have video on their phones and how many are going to want to have music on their phones? It's about the same number. The rough monthly subscription is about the same price. So that market cap delta, long term, strikes me as being really different. And it's too wide. And they both have one of the things I love to see: companies, consumer companies with pricing power. Netflix has raised price and they've done it successfully. Amazon Prime raised price. They did it successfully because they have pricing power. They've got wonderful value propositions. Spotify's just begun to do this.

Kara Swisher: All right. Okay. Well, that's fantastic. The book is called *Nothing But Net*, of course. It launches today. Thank you, Mark Mahaney.

Mark Mahaney: Thank you, Kara. Thank you, Scott.

Kara Swisher: How much do we love Mark Mahaney?

Scott Galloway: We do. He's a lovely guy. He's a very decent man.

Kara Swisher: All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Ad Break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, wins and fails. I'm going to go first. I think the win, which is a movie I have not seen, is *The Eternals*, which really killed it at the box office. $71 million in North America and $162 million globally. Even though it got bad scores, all these Marvel, like, demented fans were trying to knock down the number. It was called a review bomb. It did great. It was too, for them, it was too long, too thoughtful, and too gay, I guess. That was one of the issues.

Scott Galloway: Too gay? *The Eternals* was too gay?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, because there's a gay character in it, a superhero, first one, I think. Anyway, all these demented Marvel fans, and I'm a Marvel fan, and I do not like the demented Marvel fans, and it did really great. It's a very different Marvel movie, but nonetheless, the Marvel brand pushes through. They were worried about word of mouth on social media, et cetera, but it did hugely well, and I'm excited to see it because I like when they... This is an incredibly diverse cast. That's not why I like it. I just would like more different kinds of Marvel movies, which is great. So very pleased with that.

Scott Galloway: Nice.

Kara Swisher: And my fail is this Big Bird thing. How ridiculous. They were always attacking Big Bird. My kid loves Big Bird. So stop it. Thank you.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I didn't get that. I thought that was sort of weird. Strange.

Kara Swisher: Do you think PBS, do you think it was an overreach to kind of politicize Big Bird? Or do you think...?

Scott Galloway: No, they did it before. When he got another vaccine like years ago.

Kara Swisher: Oh my God, stop it. Well, there's all kinds of people and they're all in a line and they don't look like they're buying candy. And there's a sign that says, "Don't wait, vaccinate." Sesame Street is not... It is actually about communal, not even just community, commonality. What do we have in common? Like these people have to stop. They need to shut the fuck up. Thank you. Stay away from Big Bird.

Scott Galloway: Spoken as a real bridge-builder of communities there. "Shut the fuck up." We all need to come together.

Kara Swisher: Take the bill and stop yammering onto me. I don't want any more yammering.

Scott Galloway: My win is, I think there's a ton of win. I think the infrastructure bill is really exciting. You know, if you think of America's transportation and infrastructure as our house, we're the wealthiest person in the world. And they come to our house and I see the roof's leaking. So I think that's a big victory for us. I think the Pfizer COVID pill is really exciting. So I think there's a ton of silver linings here. My fail is, and I'm trying to hold this up as a name of mine, I feel like there's an absence of male role models. And the wealthiest man in the world and the president used to be Barack Obama and Bill Gates. And I recognize all the controversy around Bill Gates, but I think Bill Gates has demonstrated a lot of concern for the world. And I think Barack Obama is the role model I would want my kids to look at in terms of his excellence, his commitment to the country, his fidelity to his wife and his daughters. I think he's an outstanding role model and has tremendous grace. He really goes out of his way never to be critical of anyone individually. I think he's an outstanding role model. And now our role models are an individual who mocks the disabled, our former president, and somebody who goes on Twitter high to say about a U.S. senator that you're... I just wear the wrong... You know, there are some great role models out there. I think Amy Klobuchar, Andrew Yang is a great role model. Steph Curry is a great role model. The former dean of my school, Peter Henry, this huge athletic, decent, broad scholar, is a great... There's a ton of them out there. I just wish more people with more following would follow Mark Mahaney's lead, and that is young men are watching. Young men are listening. And I'm trying to show more grace because I reckon if I say something, young men start emailing me and asking questions. And when you have tens of millions of people, mostly young men, following you, these guys will do as you act. My loss is I do think that a lot of men are not taking the same responsibility or commitment that past men have and serve as role models.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I think this is absolutely true. I think you're absolutely right. I think about that a lot because I have two sons who, you know, raised by lesbians. I think a lot about people like my brother, who has been great. My older brother has spent more time. My younger brother has not spent as much time with the kids, but he's a terrific guy. But my older brother especially has been... Just recently, most of my sons were like, "We want to spend more time with him because he's such a good role model to them." And it's really important. It's just the little amount of time, because we live across the country and stuff like that, and especially the pandemic. So it's been really important. I think about that a lot. And then I think about my own sons being good role models. Like, they both took care of Clara this weekend, and they were really gentle and kind. And I thought, well, I've done something right somewhere in this entire art. And so it's a really interesting thing to think about. And obviously, men can have female role models, just like you said, and should.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, agreed. And that's what's important. Do the work. Show fidelity to your country. Angela Merkel shall be a fantastic role model.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's really, really important. And I agree with you. And I think we have to think, as I said, commonality, not community. Announcing my new thing. I'm thinking about it.

Scott Galloway: I love that. "The healer."

Kara Swisher: "Shut the fuck up." No, no. I don't want to... Like, people together. You don't have to get along all the time. You know what? There can be civil arguments, like you and I do. I think that's why we aren't a community, but we have commonality. That's where we come to.

Scott Galloway: More than civil. We have affection for one another.

Kara Swisher: No, I was thinking of this discussion I had. I'm going to finish with this. I was thinking of a discussion I had with Mark Zuckerberg very late one night here in DC, a long time ago.

Scott Galloway: With Mark Zuckerberg?

Kara Swisher: Yes. And he was talking about community all the time. He was obsessing on it. And it's really important to find commonality, not community. And because he didn't, one of the things Amanda pointed out to me last night, we were talking about this, is that he was looking for community, but he didn't care what kind of community got created, right? That's the issue. He didn't care about the kind of community. And so some communities are great, like people, as Amanda pointed out, who have kids who have a certain cancer or something like that. These are groups of usefulness, right?

Kara Swisher: Where you come together in something in common, but the only ones that work as a community — or as I'm going to attribute this to Amanda — is there is not a "them" that you're not against a "them," right? That's what's wrong with some of these communities. Connecting for the sake of connecting, but not what for, right? And that's the problem. They're connecting for the sake of connecting, and then there's a "them," and that becomes really toxic.

I want to give Mark Zuckerberg credit where credit's due. He has built a community of people who don't give a flying fuck about society and are committed to doing anything to enrich themselves. I think he has done a good job of bringing those people together. The community's got to go. There's always going to be differences of opinion and this and that, but we have lost our sense of commonality. I'm not talking about just grab hands and everybody love Betty White. That's not what I'm talking about.

The next follow-up question is — and I've thought about this — what is the connective tissue that restores that sense of community? Is it government? Is it church? Is it science? What is it? I'm not sure, but it's not this idea of creating these communities that have nothing, that always has a "them." We have to get them. This is what we're aggrieved at. There's a lot — it's a grift. It's a grift happening right now in this idea. It's like, "Look what they did to you. Look what this. Look what you can't say. Look at that group. Look at this." The whole language around the Glenn Youngkin thing is just not right. There's something off and everyone's trying to grift into it. And it's driving me crazy.

Anyway, that's my stage. And I mean, something very upsetting has happened, and that is typically Americans rallied together and formed that connective tissue due to a crisis. We did come together in 9/11. We've come together with past — even you could argue the AIDS crisis. Eventually, we did sort of come together, sort of after a while. We were waiting a long time for that, but not really. I do think that over the long term, people started developing more empathy. Anyways, we can agree to disagree. But what's happened here that's different is we had a crisis and it's actually frayed our connective tissue. We didn't come together at all around this.

So I think this is a really important conversation. What is the new connective tissue? Is it public service for young people to realize that we're Americans first? What is it?

Scott Galloway: It doesn't have to be much, actually.

Kara Swisher: It doesn't have to be much. It's just — I think what happens is you get this, like everybody kumbaya, and we don't have to kumbaya. Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway: Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jertodd, engineer in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or, frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Mark Mahaney: Mark Mahaney, the premier internet analyst in the world. So goddamn nice, so goddamn handsome. He appears Canadian, but that is all meaningful. But what is profound? Mark Mahaney is a wonderful role model and a fantastic father. Copying.