Minnesota Shootings, No Kings Protests, and Israel-Iran Attacks Escalate

Kara Swisher: You know, it's con, according to my wife, who speaks French. It's can. No, it's not. It's can. Why is it can? But not to the French, it's not. Because that's how you pronounce it. But it's not.

Scott Galloway: Okay, Kara Swisher.

Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher from France. I'm in France.

Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway. How are you doing? I was worried about you this week. Are you doing all right?

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Why? Why are you worried about me?

Scott Galloway: A lot of stuff. Although, good news, some compensation when I get worried about you, you know there's this amazing new antidepressant targeted at lesbians.

Kara Swisher: Oh, really? Oh, no. What is that?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm sure you've heard of it. It's called tricoxigan. Tricoxigan. Word is. Word is. It works for about a day, and then continued usage makes you worse than you were previously.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. Why do you come up with these? That's not good. Did I get it? Tricoxigan?

Scott Galloway: No. I have been waiting all weekend to say this joke.

Kara Swisher: You know, first of all, it's a terrible joke. And many lesbians have never tried that, just so you know.

Scott Galloway: I have.

Kara Swisher: Really?

Scott Galloway: But, yes, many have not.

Kara Swisher: But, so I was able to make my conscious choice, which was a good one, I think. I feel good to this day.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, apples, pears, no contest.

Kara Swisher: Uh-huh, exactly. Or bananas, pears.

Scott Galloway: Oh, okay.

Kara Swisher: I don't know where we're going. Let's not do the fruit thing. By the way, just as a segue here.

Scott Galloway: Oh, my God. All right. You do not have to spend, you do not, we're both in France. We're both literally near each other.

Kara Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway: We're both doing the exact same thing. You do not know how to spend your money.

Kara Swisher: I do. Look at my hotel room. Look at yours.

Scott Galloway: Okay. Your place literally looks like a Hampton Inn near the airport where you end up naked and Googling, "Can you get chlamydia from a karaoke mic?" Look at where you are.

Kara Swisher: I am at a very fancy hotel on the Croisette right now, just so you know. Everybody, okay, hold on. Here's Kara. Here's Kara for the YouTubers. Here's Kara, who does not know how to spend her money. And here's Daddy.

Scott Galloway: Daddy.

Kara Swisher: Daddy.

Scott Galloway: Daddy has an assistant.

Kara Swisher: Well, if you're so worried about me, you could put me up at the hotel where you are.

Scott Galloway: Anytime. You know, I love to shower you. I love to spoil you. You're like a hot young woman I'm trying to have sex with. I spoil you all the time.

Kara Swisher: That's never. Speaking of tricoxigan, that's never happening. Just for the listeners, that's an upsetting and triggering thing. It's never happening.

Scott Galloway: Huge disappointment on my end.

Kara Swisher: Anyways. We're in France. Seriously. Explain why we're in France. Explain why we're trans. We're at our favorite event. We're at Cannes. We love it here.

Scott Galloway: You know, it's Cannes, according to my wife who speaks French. It's Cannes. No, it's not. It's Cannes. You're a hundred. You totally mansplained at me, but it's Cannes. I've illuminated you.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, okay. I'm saving you from yourself and your pretentious friend who thinks that if they go "Cannes," that means they took French in 11th grade at some overpriced private school. It's Cannes.

Scott Galloway: No, my wife speaks French fluently, but go ahead. It's Cannes. Why is it Cannes? But not to the French. That's how you pronounce it. But it's not. It's not. Okay, Kara Swisher. Let's do that.

Kara Swisher: No, no. No, but anyways, we're here at Cannes. We're doing a bunch of events. We love it here. Did you just get here? Did you take the red eye?

Scott Galloway: I just got here. Yes, that's why I'm looking a little haggard here.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: Kara, I have to carry the show again. I didn't take a red eye. I left at 5 o'clock at whatever time, day it was.

Kara Swisher: That's called the worst red eye in the world. That means you get no sleep.

Scott Galloway: It was British Airways. It was lovely. And I went through London.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: Oh, you got it. There's no direct flight from Washington, D.C. I got to speak to your brother. This is enough. I'm doing an intervention. Okay. You need to learn how to take better care of yourself. You need to come Friday.

Kara Swisher: What are you worried about?

Scott Galloway: You need to hang out at the pool.

Kara Swisher: Oh, no, I can't do that. I can't do that.

Scott Galloway: Have a little rosé.

Kara Swisher: No, couldn't bring the kids.

Scott Galloway: Do you know how Daddy's getting into the Palais tonight? He's taking a Zodiac. I'm putting on a jacket. I'm crashing Meta Beach, and they'll all be freaked out. I'm like, "I have a meeting with Sheryl Sandberg."

Kara Swisher: Wait, you're coming here? I'm going where you are tonight, supposedly.

Scott Galloway: Oh, yeah, to the, what is it, some iHeart party or something?

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Is that the, is that iHeart? Is that Cassin?

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Yeah. They're all having competing parties at your fancy hotel, but go ahead.

Kara Swisher: And then I got a Salesforce thing and then a Google thing.

Scott Galloway: Wow. Yeah.

Kara Swisher: I got a bunch of stuff going on.

Scott Galloway: Wow. All because of you.

Kara Swisher: Oh, see, I'm glad.

Scott Galloway: Well, you should fly me here on a private plane. That would be nice for all the money I've got you over the years. It's probably not a big amount of money, but it's a substantive amount.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, we're in France because we're here shilling averageizers. We're going to do a live Pivot, which will be fun. I ran into many people on the plane who love Pivot and were giving me... I love it here. I love the South. I'm warming to French people. I love the food here. It's so nice.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Macron is like a great world leader right now.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. I think France is occupying...

Scott Galloway: He's got a spicy wife.

Kara Swisher: He's got a spicy wife. Occupying the space he commands. I like it here. Isn't he not here? He's with the G7, right? Is he in Canada?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, they're in Canada. Yeah.

Kara Swisher: So he's not here. France, Canada. Same, same.

Scott Galloway: Anyway, we're going to be getting together a lot and we're going to have a good time here. We always do.

Kara Swisher: But we've got a lot to get to today. There's actually some very serious things happening besides the rain on Trump's military parade, which was a big, he caught the L train on that one. The No Kings protests, which were actually quite substantive in the United States, and the missile attacks between Israel and Iran. But first, I mean, this story has dominated the headlines this weekend. A Minnesota man has been charged with murder after two Minnesota lawmakers and their spouses were shot early Saturday morning in their homes in what Minnesota Governor Tim Walz called an act of targeted political violence. Officials are also considering federal charges against the suspect, 57-year-old Vance Bolter, who wore a weird mask and pretended he was a cop. State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband were killed. State Senator John Hoffman and his wife were seriously injured. Authorities found a list in Bolter's car naming around 70 potential targets, including Democratic politicians and abortion providers. A 2020 state report lists Bolter as having no party preference, but his roommate says he voted for Trump and was a strong supporter. Elon Musk had his own thoughts, as usual, inserting himself grotesquely into the proceedings of this writing. He said, "The far left is murderously violent" in response to an ex-post about the shootings and other attacks. He's absolutely wrong, this guy. I'm sorry, Democratic state senators are murdered by someone who is very clearly disturbed and also a Trump supporter. I want to discuss these shootings, the implications. But first, let's listen to Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar, who both of us know, talk about her friend who she had dinner with the night before she died, Representative Melissa Hortman, on *Meet the Press*.

[Audio clip plays: Senator Amy Klobuchar speaking] "We started out together in politics, moms with young kids. And somehow she was able to balance getting to know every doorknock, every house in her district while raising two children. Girl Scout leader, she taught Sunday school. And maybe all that juggling made it easier for her as she worked her way up in the legislature and became this extraordinary Speaker of the House, ushering in everything from free school lunch to working with the governor and other leaders to do some landmark legislation on paid family leave to this year working with her Republican counterpart when we pretty much had a tied legislature to get the budget done. That's Melissa Hortman, my friend."

Kara Swisher: Anyway, she's been quite broken up about it, obviously. Violent threats against members of Congress hit a record high last year. I've been told this by very well-known people, congressional people, that they've gotten a huge amount of death threats this year, Democratic ones. For the second year in a row, according to Capitol Police, there have been other recent incidents. In the last few months, there was a killing of two Israeli embassy staffers in D.C., an arson attack on Governor Josh Shapiro. We saw, obviously, the two Trump assassination attempts last year. One got very close. What do you think about this rhetoric? And will it get worse? I mean, I don't know what to say. People are in their homes. It's easy to find people. A lot of the people who are state senators and local politicians do not have the protection that U.S. national people have. But even those people are pretty exposed. What has to happen here? Pam Bondi, thank God, made the appropriate response, and so did Trump, although light, I would say. So what do you make of what's happening here? You've talked about this. You were talking about civil war, obviously, recently. But this is something that I guess is not a surprise and yet is horrifying at the same time.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, well, look, there's no getting around it. It's a tragedy for the family, senseless death, senseless murder. I thought Senator Klobuchar was very statesperson-like in her comments. I thought Governor Walz did his best to address the situation in the correct tone. And if you think about, I was thinking about climate change, and that is we've created a context or atmospheric such that we might have mass migrations, super fires, terrible weather events that hurt the economy, hurt the poorest. And the two big puffs of carbon into the air that created these atmospherics were the industrialization of China and the consumerization of the car, specifically Americans moving to the suburbs and the embrace of the car. And I think we've created an atmosphere for a lot of political violence and the two puffs of carbon into the air, if you will. I do think social media, which has a profit motive around pitting us against each other, has just created an atmosphere where we're convinced the enemy is within. And then polarization at the hands of income inequality. People are just generally angry when they wake up and they feel like they've worked hard and they have medical debt. And then social media convinces them that their enemy is their neighbor. So, like, what can be done? This is a multi-pronged problem. This talks about access to guns. This talks about mental health. This talks about the strain of lack of job prospects. This, obviously, political violence. What you hope you get from our leaders is thoughts around bold solutions that decarbonize the atmosphere as opposed to trying to take advantage of the moment and start issuing blame on the other side because there's been political violence against both parties. But other than saying we all have an obligation to try and take the temperature down, I do think it's time probably for some sort of, and you've been talking about this for a while, legislation around hate speech that says this rhetoric, this tone, when you call someone, when your first reaction is to call these people Marxist, that's not helping.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's also inaccurate.

Scott Galloway: It's not helping. It's also inaccurate. So, I'll finish where I started. My heart goes out to the families of these people who were murdered. And then you hear about this guy's background. And he's a murderer. And I trust and hope he's brought to justice. But the whole thing is just awful. The whole thing, it just leaves you with a pit in your stomach.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, he sounds like someone who's been drifting. But although not your typical profile of these sort of loner, angry people. He has five kids, very religious, which is no thing against him. He tried to make it sort of pretend being a cop, and his business apparently didn't get off the ground. He was working in a funeral home, he was collecting eyeballs for operations for people. He had a series of sort of jobs, and he was living in Minneapolis or near Minneapolis, and his family lived in rural Minnesota, but was living with this roommate who knew him so well. But like struggling, struggling. Someone who was struggling, obviously, had become more and more religious and had become born again, which has nothing to do with this. But he just got sort of very politicized around his religion, abortion specifically. And this is someone you wouldn't necessarily think of cracking. It reminds me a little bit of the Luigi Mangione thing too, who seemed to be in a... that's what it reminded me. I was like, why did this guy?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but that kid was high school valedictorian. I mean, that was really strange.

Kara Swisher: That was really strange, but he was angry and he had a back pain and he had all kinds of things. Again, no excuse, zero explanation. Like you can sort of start to see how this pieces together. But what set him off to say this? It looks like he was going to target some of these No Kings rallies. It looks like what got him? Was it mental illness? Was it just what was it, that he was cosplaying a cop and had to do this? And this woman sounds wonderful, like did all these astonishing things, helped people enormously. Like one of these wonderful public servants who just was service, service, service, service to other people and brought them all manner of things, protecting kids from gun violence, free lunch, abortion access, etc. So it's just sickening. It's sickening because it's not... maybe he was mentally ill. I don't know. But it seems like everybody's mentally ill now in that regard and not your classic loner gunman kind of thing. I mean, he's got five kids. To take that step is really, I couldn't even begin to understand it. It is this rhetoric. It's the polarization. It's religions getting too political. Like, right, the Southern Baptists deciding they're going after gay marriage now. What is wrong with them? You thought that was sort of settled and it's not, obviously. But creating levels of anger in ways that were different rather than the ways that were same. I don't know. It's just sickening. And I am scared for a lot of people. I have to say, I'm very scared for, and I've been told by a number of politicians that the death threats have gone up substantively for them.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, for me, I mean, it's a tough one, but we don't have a monopoly on mental illness. We do have a little bit of a monopoly for a nation as prosperous as us around income inequality and polarization, but I still think almost all of this comes down to easy access to guns. When there's a mentally ill guy who goes on a rampage in Britain, he stabs two people and one of them survives. Although in Austria, that just had an attack, but go ahead, a school attack. But just the prevalence of this is awful all the way around. It's very hard to find a single cause. But again, I think the politicians on both sides, it's just so upsetting when you see people try and politicize it and use it as fodder to blame the other side. Musk and Mike Lee were repulsive. Even Trump knew not to, right? He may do it in the coming days. But both Mike Lee and Elon Musk just reacted in exactly the way they're not supposed to, as always. Because they're, and of course, look at me, in a situation that has nothing to do with either of them. They should keep their mouth shut is what they should do.

Kara Swisher: But anyway, our heart goes out to these families. And there's two people recovering, supposedly, the people who were shot, John Hoffman and his wife. But to come to people's homes and do this is just a height of depravity. I don't know what else to say. Anyway, speaking of weirdnesses, being in Washington this weekend for this military parade was odd, I have to say. This town was empty. It really was. He had his birthday military parade, Trump did, which included over 6,000 soldiers and 100 tanks, which were far less than the expected 200. Attendees? I would be surprised if there were 100 there. It was a ghost town. It was really interesting. The parade was sponsored by several brands with close ties to the president, including Palantir and Coinbase, meaning pay-per-play. The whole thing was overshadowed by over 5 million people attending over 2,000 No Kings protests around the country, which looked like a lot of fun. They seemed largely peaceful, I think, and quite festive almost, and also determined, which was interesting. I don't know if it makes a difference. Let's read off some fun signs that people had. "If a dictator throws a military parade and no one watches it, did it really happen?" "Off with his toupee." "If Kamala were president, we'd be at brunch." "Donnie, the quicker fucker upper." "We're all the couch now." "You sucked in Home Alone 2." There were tons of them. One was a picture of Melania Trump dressed in *The Handmaid's Tale* of Taco, which I thought was very funny. Here's the one thing. There was a piece by Max Boot that got a little negative attention, I think, was about the military looked good. It looked like they, we should honor these people that serve. But doing it at the behest of Trump and making it a pathetic kind of parade was... there was some really interesting revolutionary stuff. It's the 250th anniversary of the Army, which was founded at the beginning of our country at the same time. And so they do deserve attention and being treated with respect and everything else. There were all kinds of sort of conspiracy theories all over the place, including that they weren't marching correctly as a protest, which was odd. I have to say I did notice that. I just don't think there were a lot of people there. I don't know if people might have cheered if there were a lot of people, but it was empty as could be, which was just interesting. I thought there'd be more people there. Anyway, your thoughts?

Scott Galloway: I think it's like when I've heard of friends getting a bar mitzvah late in life, and everyone shows up and pretends this isn't strange. Or my favorite that I've never been to, which says "I'm banging my assistant, a recommitment ceremony." Those are my favorite. I've got to be honest. I thought it was so fucking hilarious. I just enjoyed reveling in how stupid and lame this thing was. And there's no way he didn't know it. I turned on the TV just to see some footage. And actually, I thought to myself, you know, actually, it looks pretty cool. And I realized I was watching the Mexican Independence Day parade.

Kara Swisher: Oh, wow.

Scott Galloway: Like, I love when I was in San Francisco, which is the most liberal city in the world, the whole place loved Fleet Week. And F-15s used to buzz like planes. And you go, and you kind of just look up. And regardless of your political affiliation, you think...

Kara Swisher: The Blue Angels, yeah.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, you think, wow, it's pretty cool to be American. And I like the fact that if anyone fucks with us, they've got to deal with these guys. Fleet Week is fun in San Francisco. You're right. It really is. Yeah, and it's great. And it's a show off of military hardware. But doing it, the whole thing, I got to be honest, I enjoyed it because it was just so sad for the president. The Russian state media was laughing at Trump's parade. They're like, "They don't know how to throw it." They do. The Soviets know.

Kara Swisher: My favorite was the No Kings ones looked really fun. I didn't go to any, but they looked really fun, especially in smaller cities. They looked kind of festive and everything. There were tons and tons and tons of those. Really well done. That was the contrast. I think that's what No Kings did correctly from a marketing point of view. And the whole No Kings with people on the beach in San Francisco and Ocean Beach, spelling out "No Kings" but with bodies, which was cool. And they had a drone shot. Very creative, very fun. And again, the smaller cities was very moving, I know. And all these people were really coming out. It was, from a marketing point of view. I don't know, Scott, thoughts?

Scott Galloway: You're exactly right. It was, not only were they really successful, but the key was the contrast. Philadelphia had the biggest turnout, Seattle, San Diego, of all places. And they were creative. It looked like a good time. And generally speaking, there are three firewalls between what has traditionally been a constitutional democracy and the things we've come to, I think, take for granted in this, what I think is this slow, increasingly fast burn to fascism. And the first is the courts. And I would argue the courts are mostly holding. There's been some controversial decisions down from the Supreme Court because they're not used to a criminal president. But most of the issues that have been presented before the court, the court says, "No, we can't do this." Unfortunately, he can move faster than the courts and a lot of the damage can't be undone. The second buffer is the media. And I think, I'm mixed on the media. I think it's doing its level best. I think the lack of coverage around this multibillion dollar crypto scam has been very frustrating for me, but they are unafraid. I do think there's been good coverage of a lot of, especially around the immigration issue and the illegal deportation of people. I thought they were trying to be too fair on this thing. This was a bust of a parade. It just was. There was no other way.

Kara Swisher: That's called the *New York Times*. The self-hating *New York Times*, they can't ever have moral clarity around anything.

Scott Galloway: I know, but it was kind of like, come on. It was, CNBC did it too. I was like, I know you're trying really hard, but this wasn't good. And even Marco Rubio looked bored.

Kara Swisher: Well, CNBC has anchors that speak. They tuck in the president every night.

Scott Galloway: But the contrast from a marketing standpoint, it was Coke versus Pepsi. And Pepsi just cleaned Coke's clock. Because the moment they went from one image to the other, it was like Trump sitting there like, supposedly as a high schooler, the best thing you can do to establish social capital is to throw a rockin' party. You can be a near cool kid and elevate yourself to cooldom by throwing an amazing party when your parents are out of town where they show up in the garage is on fire and the dog is pregnant, right? Have like a fucking crazy party. And this was, okay, I have more money. I'm more powerful. And I threw just the lamest party. And then the juniors, the kids who aren't in school, had impromptu parties all over. And they were much more fun. And they were much bigger. And everybody showed up. But where I was headed was the third firewall here is citizenry and citizenship. And I do think that Americans have become somewhat fat and happy and that a lot of us take for granted the incredible prosperity and rights that we have inherited. Many of us have not earned. And to see citizens take their weekend day from their kids, from relaxation, from making more money and go march with several hundred thousand of their fellow citizens, it's really inspiring. And there's some data on this, actually. I guess about 1.8% of Americans turned out. And there's actual research that shows if you get to three, there's never been civic activity or protests where more than three percent or more of the population shows up where there isn't significant change around the policies there. And so we're getting close.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Paul Krugman wrote an interesting piece. He went to one of the rallies and it was titled "Trump's Parade Flop, No Kings Was a Hit." Right now, images largely determine the outcome. And he wrote something, he goes, "Trumpists, however, haven't fully consolidated their hold. America steals a chance of reclaiming itself from the grip of brazen corruption, mindless destruction and contempt for both the rule of law and for our erstwhile allies. We don't have to become a country bullied into submission, but we're teetering on the edge. One of the most important ways we can step back from that edge is for ordinary Americans to engage in mass protests." And I think he's right. I think it's not just that because crowd size does matter. I mean, we all joked about Trump saying that he had a bigger initial inauguration than Barack Obama, which he didn't. But it's like this, it has the feel of a loser to it. And I think it sort of makes people feel more bold if that's the case. But it doesn't mean that difficult times aren't ahead because these people aren't going away. I mean, they bring in their guns, they're bringing their threats and everything else. But it is important, as several politicians like Pritzker and others have said, this is what has to happen. And there is a weariness that comes with this kind of thing. But it was, I think you have that juxtaposition of this bad parade and this enthusiastic. It affects his image, I think, of being old and a loser kind of thing. And I think that does stick with people. Maybe not.

Scott Galloway: There is a correlation between people's ability to bring signs to any public place and have free speech. And at the same time, there's an inverse correlation. The nations that are more prone and opt to have tanks and military hardware on public streets, generally speaking, have a citizenry that has few rights. And so you're just signaling to the world an erosion in individual rights of its citizenry the more often you have tanks on boulevards. There are laws built in, a couple hundred years old, that said, for example, the military can't be weaponized to arrest citizens. The whole point is our military. We're not even very good. Our fine young men and women aren't very good at marching. Why? Because they train to kill people and defend our shores as opposed to...

Kara Swisher: They are good at marching. Several army people were like, "That was on purpose," just so you know.

Scott Galloway: And I was like, OK, I would rather they be good at killing bad guys than practicing marching all the time in Pyongyang. It's just, that's not an indication. Your ability to throw on a parade and march by dear leader in unison is not an accurate reflection of the strength and fighting power. And again, when you see your tanks on Wilshire Boulevard or on Fifth Avenue or marching up Northwest 17th or whatever the street is, that's a bad sign. You're not supposed to have that. That's the sign of a society where the leader is either not focused on the well-being, the psychological and material well-being of the citizens, and has decided to, in some way, try and intimidate the local populace. Like, no one's scared of that. I don't think anyone's scared of that.

Kara Swisher: I'll tell you, the best part of this was sort of the old costumes, the old tanks, the old weaponry.

Scott Galloway: The vintage stuff.

Kara Swisher: The vintage stuff was interesting. And so were the outfits, even the revolutionary ones. And then I like the feats of strength on that. Everyone was making fun of this. I'm like, what do you care if they're doing feats?

Kara Swisher: You know, they were hanging off of things, doing a lot of health stuff. I thought that was fine. I know Pete Hegseth loves that stuff. And that's the only part that I think was cool. Well, anyway, Trump, you're a loser. And Elon, whatever. Elon even tweeted a "No Kings" thing. It was interesting. We'll get to that in a second, actually.

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. And when we come back, Trump tries to make peace between Israel and Iran. Oh, dear.

[Break]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back. President Trump is urging Israel and Iran to make peace, saying the two countries should make a deal and will make a deal. The long-simmering conflict between the two countries escalated late last week with Israel's surprise attack on Iran, although Trump signaled it pretty clearly. The attack targeted Iranian nuclear and military facilities, killing top generals and nuclear scientists. Iran retaliated, and missile strikes from both sides have continued for four straight days, rising civilian casualties. The White House is denying any U.S. involvement in Israel's actions, though Trump reportedly nixed a plan to kill Iran's leader over the weekend. He's also warning that Iran will face the full strength and might of the U.S. armed forces if the U.S. is attacked in any way.

Kara Swisher: Oh, God, this feels like a gulf again. I don't know. What have you been thinking over the past few days? And what do you think about his role in all this? A lot of people feel that stopping these Iranian centrifuges from spinning up was a very good idea. At the same time, Trump seems way past his depth. There's a fight within MAGA over this. Marjorie Taylor Greene and others don't think we should be there at all. So it's also politically problematic for him.

Scott Galloway: Well, obviously, I think a lot about this. I think the Ukrainian army and the IDF are doing the dirty, dangerous work for the West. I think of the presidency and leadership as around capital allocation. And I think there are a few things that have shown a greater return than backing the Ukrainian army and also the intelligence and military support of the IDF.

Scott Galloway: America has four perceived enemies: China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. I would argue China's actually not an enemy; they're a competitor. And if a competitor is doing really well and getting in striking distance of America, America tends to think of them as an enemy, which I think is a little bit unfair, but that's another talk show. But three of the four have a nuclear weapon. And I just don't think there's any getting around it.

Scott Galloway: I think the West, the U.S., and especially Israel, our closest ally in the Gulf, and in my view, the only ally we can count on given it's a democracy and shares our values if shit gets real over there, we are just better off if Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. The Atomic International Agency just last week issued a statement, and its 35 member nations, many of whom are not pro-Israel, saying that Iran was barreling towards a nuclear weapon and had engaged in massive deception. Biden had tried really hard through diplomacy to take them back or get them to step back from the development of a nuclear bomb. I think Trump trashing the agreement in 2017 probably didn't help. But it was clear, despite the bluster and Trump thinking as a dealmaker, they were barreling towards a nuclear bomb.

Scott Galloway: Israel, in what will go down as this remarkable military operation, took out what is the equivalent of the Joint Chiefs of Staff via the head of the army, killed them all within minutes of each other. And then because essentially the Iranian air defenses have been totally obliterated, Israel not only controls the skies, but what became clear here, they control the ground. The Mossad has so deeply penetrated the intelligence arm of the IRGC that everyone is vulnerable. And just as interesting as who they killed is who they didn't kill. They didn't take out any political leadership. But this is essentially taken Iran back a year, two years, hopefully three years from nuclear capabilities or nuclear bomb capabilities, which I just think it's hard to argue that that's a bad thing.

Scott Galloway: Now, having said that, war in the Middle East rarely turns out as you had hoped. There is a real risk here anytime there is war in the Middle East. This wasn't a military operation. I do think these two nations are at war right now. I also want to acknowledge that there is a legitimate concern that this is a wag the tail situation where Netanyahu, similar to Trump, is running to stay out of prison. And unfortunately, and this is tragic, if we had better leadership in the White House and a president who didn't see his ability to get reelected based on a war footing, Trump wouldn't be taking planes from Qatar. He'd be putting pressure on Qatar to put pressure on Hamas. And then Netanyahu would be more sincere about trying to end the ongoing death and destruction in Gaza.

Scott Galloway: So this is a complicated situation. But if you look at the IDF, they took more terrorists off our most wanted list in six weeks than we had done in 20 years. And Iran not having a nuclear bomb, I just fail to see how that is anything but good for the West. So quite frankly, I'll finish where I started. I believe the IDF and the Ukrainian army are doing the West's dirty and dangerous work and should be celebrated for it.

Kara Swisher: Well, that may be, but now what happens? And I think it's really interesting that there's a real shift in the MAGA coalition in terms of "America First." And of course, Trump said "America versus whatever I say it is because I invented it," which he didn't, of course. But it's a question of what now and how do you stop it? I think a lot of people I admire are like, "OK, it's the right thing to do, but you don't know the right way to stop it." They're in their fourth day of heavy strikes and the attacks are not going down, they're going up. This is obviously a volatile area, and continued fighting in the Mideast is something that cannot happen. Especially with Netanyahu's interest. I think Netanyahu has other ideas besides peace. He doesn't want peace.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, that's a legitimate concern.

Kara Swisher: So I get that you want to take out these generals. I get that you want to do this. The fact that we managed to get him not to kill the main leader is something, I guess. But it just seems like any number of bad things could happen here.

Scott Galloway: No doubt. And Trump is not the president you want in this situation. You may agree with him, but boy, is he nuts. And so I think that's the problem we have here. A lot of the smart thinkers are like, "Good, but..." kind of thing.

Kara Swisher: Sure.

Scott Galloway: This is a bad decision between bad decisions, but you described it. It distills down to one fulcrum or one decision, and that is the risk of going to war against Iran is a real risk. There's going to be unintended consequences here. The calculus is the following: Are those risks outweighed by the risk of Iran being closer to a nuclear weapon? And I would argue that the former risks are the ones worth taking. And I do believe that unlike a lot of people in the Republican Party and some on the far left, I do believe there is a bad peace and I believe there are good wars. It was clear a lot of nonpartisan agencies were saying that Iran was engaged in deception and moving closer and closer to a nuclear weapon.

Scott Galloway: And while their air defenses were down, there really hasn't been a lot of civilian casualties in Iran. And again, they didn't go after the political leadership. So I think what they're saying is, "OK, if you continue to have a clock in the middle of Tehran that's counting down to our destruction, and saying 'Death to Israel' is a common phrase at the end of every sentence, we are going to take preemptive action against you."

Scott Galloway: What is interesting here is whether or not Israel said to the U.S., "We're doing this. We feel that this is too big a risk to ignore," or they were totally coordinated with the U.S. who was claiming they were supposed to have talks today, and whether it was a coordinated head fake and the U.S. engaged in it. Because without U.S. cooperation, the Israeli Air Force is flying F-15s and F-35s. They can't even repair them if the U.S. were to decide to not support Israel. So some level of cooperation is probably taking place here, especially around propaganda. Iran was caught totally flat-footed. They thought they were about to head into negotiations on Sunday.

Kara Swisher: But they made their point, right?

Scott Galloway: I'm sorry, who's made their point?

Kara Swisher: Israel, in terms of doing this. So one of the things, there's no—I guess it's called deconfliction. Is that like de-escalation? It's like that, but it's deconfliction, I guess. And obviously, apparently one of the key sites, the enrichment site, is buried deep underground, and so it's one of these things that might be impossible to do. You can cause it damage or slow it down. I don't know a lot. This is not my area of expertise. But the thing is, it depends on President Trump again because we have the ability to help them do that, to really destroy the nuclear bombs that are being made there. And whether the United States intervenes is a big decision and has huge consequences. Anyway, he probably wants to avoid direct conflict since his whole thing was "let's not get the wars everywhere." And now he's been negotiating with Iran, by the way. So it's all come down to Trump. But I'm like, "Oh, the military parade guy."

Scott Galloway: I know, but what better ally to have that can do this strategically and as effectively? What was interesting here is that these hardened targets, we have bunker busters that can go about 20 or 30 meters down. But if they dig deep enough and have these centrifuges, the question is how much can you decapitate their nuclear programs. Within minutes, they killed several very top-ranking military officials. They also killed two or three top nuclear scientists. But what must be so chilling for the IRGC or the Iranian leadership is that essentially the Mossad now has control of the ground. They basically demonstrated we can kill anybody here. And if you're a mid-level part of the security apparatus in Iran, you've got to be thinking, "OK, what did I sign up for here?" Imagine in the U.S. if all the Joint Chiefs had been murdered, the head of the Navy, the head of the Army, and our top six scientists in AI were all dead within 30 minutes. We would recognize our security apparatus had totally broken down. And that's what's happened in Iran. I think today the Middle East is actually a safer place than it was on Thursday.

Kara Swisher: Interesting. I just think escalation of this war is so disturbing. Anyway, we'll see. It's up to Trump. He'll be able to do a better job than his military parade.

Kara Swisher: All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the White House reviews SpaceX contracts amid the fallout of the Trump-Elon feud.

[Break]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with an update on the girls who are fighting. I don't care if you're mad I say that. It's funny. By which I mean Donald and Elon. The White House directed the Defense Department and NASA to gather details on billions in contracts with SpaceX. And they should. This is a good thing. You shouldn't have one person running things. The Pentagon is reportedly thinking about scaling back SpaceX's involvement in the Golden Dome, which is this protective shield. Meanwhile, President Trump said he was amazed Elon ever endorsed him. Let's listen to a clip which literally does sound like a breakup.

[Clip plays: Trump says "Now I know why Elon doesn't like me so much, which he does, actually. He does. And he never had a problem. You know, it's very interesting. This is not something new. This has been there from day one. We're going to abolish the EV mandate. And Elon still endorsed me because, honestly, he never, ever spoke to me about that. And I used to say, I'm amazed that he's endorsing me because that can't be good for him. I'm abolishing the EV mandate. And I once asked him about it. He said, 'Well, as long as it's happening to everybody, I'll be able to compete.' It was a very interesting answer. I thought it was a very honest answer, to be honest with you."]

Kara Swisher: So strange, these two. Honestly, they should just stop. I mean, I don't know what to say. We'll see. Obviously, Elon's under threat by Trump. Who knows if he'll ever carry through? I think one of the things I've always thought is, even when Elon got contracts from Lockheed and others, I thought that was a good thing because of competition and better, cheaper things. So they certainly have an upper hand here and shouldn't. There should be lots of competitive bidding on this stuff, as competitive as it can be because it's the government. But it's such a strange relationship. I think Trump's passed him. I do think Trump's passed him. I don't know about what you think. He keeps trying to kiss up to—Elon keeps trying to kiss up to Trump. I think this is kind of over.

Scott Galloway: Well, what is it, Occam's razor? The obvious answer is usually the right one. I think it's pretty obvious what's happened here. Elon got the president elected, or at least played a major role in his election. And as a result, he believes he should have input. He was comfortable usurping congressional power and the power of the person making administrative suggestions around cutting costs or trying to root out waste and fraud, but making political decisions that we should cut off USAID, which reportedly, according to Boston University, is already responsible for 300,000 incremental deaths. He was comfortable doing that and then felt that he should have been put around the picks for the IRS, the CIA, NASA. And people in the White House got sick of an unelected co-president.

Scott Galloway: Elon got very angry and then, to his quarter of a billion followers, accused the president of being a sex criminal. Didn't bother him before when he was allowed to be in the White House in his hot topic outfit with a black eye. But when he got basically shoved out of the White House, he decided that the president was a pedophile. And then what hasn't been reported, but I believe will be reported because it seems fairly obvious to me, is somebody—whether it was Speaker Johnson or a go-between, Peter Thiel, I don't know who the emissary was, there's always a go-between—called Trump and said, "OK, I'm sorry," called Musk and said, "OK, I don't think you realize who you're fucking with. This is what he could do in about 30 to 90 days. Cancel every contract, every subsidy across SpaceX and Tesla respectively, which would take the value of SpaceX from $300 billion to about $100 and probably put Tesla out of business. He could threaten to deport you. He could sit the IRS on you. He could rehire and triple the number of inspectors general who are trying to put in safety standards around your autonomous driving. And then Tesla goes from being worth $900 billion to being worth $50 billion." And somebody communicated that to Musk.

Scott Galloway: And Musk realized, "Oh, maybe I went too far." And that was his next tweet. He didn't all of a sudden in a fit of sobriety decide that he had lost control of his id. Somebody called him and said, "Listen, bitch, you fucked with the wrong cowboy. Whether you like this cowboy or not, he's got the biggest badge in town and he can literally put you out of business and deport you." Somebody made that call because that's the truth.

Kara Swisher: Though, let me just say though. So far on his Twitter, he was sort of supporting him on the protests and stuff, but that's out of the news right now. All those protests. What is interesting is all he's doing is Tesla things and things self-aggrandizing how good he is and people complimenting him on Twitter. And then every now and then he's put up these "No kings, no gods or kings, only men." What do you know? He's acting like a drug addict.

Scott Galloway: I know, but I was like, what's he doing? Because he's not just saying it. We keep looking for reason and rational behavior here. Why is he putting those up? He shouldn't put those up. Kara, he's a fucking drug addict.

Kara Swisher: Okay, all right. But I'm like, he can't help himself, right? Most of it is like, "Isn't the future with Elon Musk or rockets and cool cars?" And he just has all this complimentary stuff up, which is sad. But it'll be interesting. I think Trump is going to just put him, put baby in the corner. He already has.

Scott Galloway: But keep him in the corner. Somebody called Musk and said, "OK, Elon, are you relatively non-high right now? Call me when you have 10 or 15 minutes where you feel like relatively not out of your fucking head, and I'm just going to break down what the president, this president, who is corrupt and willing to avoid the courts or bypass the courts, this guy will deport you, Elon. This guy will cut off all subsidies the next day to you. How are you going to explain that to your shareholders?"

Kara Swisher: The thing is, he's not going to do better with the Democrats either.

Scott Galloway: Oh, no, that he would, because the Democrats will honor the Constitution in courts.

Kara Swisher: I don't know. I think they're going to target him. Like before he was like, "They're targeting me." I'm like, "They're really not." And I'm like, I think they're going to this time. But what you're highlighting is why autocracy is so dangerous, because quite frankly, in the short run, it's so much more effective. Because if you believe Biden would never do this to me, Biden would never threaten to cut off my subsidies or do an illegal asymmetric targeted attack against my companies or me individually, I am safe to shitpost Biden. But be careful. Don't come out and say anything bad about the autocrat who's willing to bypass the courts and prosecute his perceived political enemies. That's the danger of an autocracy: it is very effective. I think he's in trouble either way. I don't know who could win that wants a piece of him. I think he really overplayed his hand rather badly.

Scott Galloway: I wonder if it could go the other way.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that they're nicer to him?

Scott Galloway: No. Well, I just wonder, Kara, I wonder if a decent strategy—

Kara Swisher: And controversial.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but go ahead. Try and invite Elon back into the Democratic Party.

Kara Swisher: No, that's just—Ro Khanna sort of brought it up, but he didn't exactly even. And to be fair to him, he didn't actually say, but Andrew Yang said it. And they got run over like a power mower. It was interesting. But you said something occasionally that does resonate with me. And you said something a few weeks ago that made a ton of sense to me. And I've been talking about it. We got attacked, mostly you, online for suggesting that Obama come back.

Scott Galloway: Oh, yes.

Kara Swisher: And people are like angry. Questlove attacked me.

Scott Galloway: Who is Questlove?

Kara Swisher: Questlove. Amazing artist. Anyway, but basically they said, "Look, it's not up to Obama. We need new leadership." It's insane of you to expect him to come. I mean, but I think that's a valid opinion, but the attacks got personal. And I thought to myself, what you said is exactly right: the Democrats are just the first to attack allies that are imperfect. And I thought, I don't weigh in anymore on the comments. I just don't do it for my own mental health. And I find it not productive. People don't want to have a civil conversation.

Scott Galloway: I'm glad you're reading my comments now. You're just wandering over the air.

Kara Swisher: No, but people attacked you. People started strafing me because I co-host this show with you. And I thought, you know what, folks? We're not going to regain the White House with a Democratic Party that is less popular than a party led by a fascist if we start saying to the guy next to us, "Fuck you, you're holding the gun wrong. You're my ally, but I don't like the way you're holding the gun."

Scott Galloway: It was interesting. Let me just weigh in on this. I did get attacked, and Questlove really did attack me. Listen, I get your arguments. I don't want a magical black man to come and save us. That's not what I was saying. And actually, I'll tell you, I had a great talk with Karen Attiah, who just wrote a great piece called "Barack Obama is Not Your Emotional Support President." And she and I had coffee this week. She's a wonderful columnist. Was also Jamal Khashoggi's editor. Just a terrific columnist and a really wonderful person. And she wrote a great piece about it. But she listened. I'm not saying I want this magical person to come save us. I'm saying we don't have someone. And this is out of enormous respect for him, not out of "let that guy who's given up so much take care of it." We had a great talk. She was hearing what I was saying.

Scott Galloway: So I think it's easy to say "white ladies say bring Obama in to fix it." He's a—and Karen wrote, "Look, I get it. Everyone was a cultural icon. He's perhaps the only Democrat with the star power to take on the star power of Trump." But this is the thing about political power: Trump is the one who has it now.

Kara Swisher: I agree. I agree. I just am waiting for other people. He's not the only one with the gravitas in my opinion. But I get why you don't think he should. But when you say, the only argument I don't get is you're saying, "Let George Bush do it, let Bill Clinton." They are so stunted in comparison to Barack Obama. That to me is laughable. Let them do it. They're not capable, nor are they talented. But anyway.

Scott Galloway: I think the other argument, without the personal vitriol against allies attacking allies, which is how we managed to lose the White House again, is that we need a new generation of leadership to step up here. And presidents do have a storied, dignified habit of not weighing in on politics once they're out of the White House. I think your point, and I agree with it more broadly, is that a lot of wealthy Democrats are clutching their pearls in private and not speaking up in public, whether it's Fortune 500 CEOs, former presidents, people who have a platform. Because right now, in the autocrat's playbook, is to disincentivize you from saying anything because you will become a target and he will punish you unfairly. So the smart thing to do is just to stay quiet or just to give him $10 million to his library and neuter the free press. The incentives are just to stay quiet and stay out of his way. And there are a lot of people, including former presidents, that have a really powerful platform that if there was a time to speak up, it feels like now is that time.

Scott Galloway: And I think it not only goes for former presidents, whether it's Bush or Obama, but also, and I've said this, the people I'm most disappointed in are really wealthy Democrats.

Kara Swisher: I agree.

Scott Galloway: The CEOs. Look, we're not going to have Jamie Dimon. We're going to have 14 percent mortgage rates if we continue to be this fiscally irresponsible. Bob Iger, a free press is super important. You can't give $10 million just to make a problem go away to his library. That has literally unleashed a ton of knee-bending across all of media and set a really ugly precedent for what is the most important pushback against fascism, and that is a free press. The CEO of Nike, you have a huge opportunity to come out and talk about how important immigrants have been to sport and competitiveness and American values. And all of these guys, 499 of the Fortune 500, wake up every morning, look in the mirror and say, "Hello, Mr. President."

Scott Galloway: Well, the key to being president is leadership, and leadership is doing the right thing when it's really hard. And I recognize all of you are worried about your shareholder value, but Tim Cook, if you believe a man should be able to marry another man, guess what? We are headed to a very ugly place where your kids, should they decide to marry someone of the same sex, won't be allowed to. So I respect the fact he did not go to the Gulf. I respect the fact these guys—and let's be honest, 430 of them are guys—are in a very difficult spot. But there are a lot of people who are in a very difficult spot who made very hard choices such that we could have incredible prosperity and rights and live with an absence of fear that if we say something the current administration doesn't like, they're not going to bankrupt us or deport us to some hellscape. So, gentlemen, grow a fucking pair. This is exactly the time to speak up.

Kara Swisher: I would love that. I would love that, too. The only reason I'm thinking of Obama is because I think he's uniquely gifted, loved by a lot of people that are Trump supporters. Absolutely. I don't think—if you disagree with me, come up with other people, maybe all of them together. But don't tell me George Bush. Sorry. Compared to Obama is stratospheric compared to George Bush or Bill Clinton.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's kind of all of the above, isn't it?

Kara Swisher: Yes, it would be maybe all of them come together. Look at the "No Kings" protests. A couple million people decided they were going to take the risk and paint signs. Those are the most important people. I just need a little—I believed in the hope thing. So that's where I'm with him. And I saw this incredible group of inspiring women in Fort Worth, Texas, marching in a line dressed in Handmaid's Tale outfits. And I'm like, these women got up, they spent all week putting together these frighteningly beautiful Handmaid's Tale outfits because they want to send a message. Citizens are—it shouldn't be Obama. It should be all the citizens.

Scott Galloway: All of the above.

Kara Swisher: All of the above. And it's a compliment to Obama, just so you all know.

Scott Galloway: By the way, my son took the ACT last week and I've decided that standardized tests are really culturally biased against kids that don't give a shit. I hate those tests.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God.

Scott Galloway: I am much more anxious about the ACT than my son. That's the problem. He's like—I'm like, "How'd it go? How'd it go?" And he's like, "I don't think it did okay. Math was hard, but I think it did all right. Hey, do you think the pub will serve me a beer?" I'm like, "How did it go?"

Scott Galloway: Time for a donation from the Galloways. But one thing I will say is the danger of anyone, Obama or whoever, public figures speaking out is very high now, especially with these deaths of these very brave people. Again, that's the autocrat's playbook. That's when you got to speak up. I get it. It's dangerous. So I guess we all have to do it together.

Kara Swisher: Okay, Questlove, you're right. We all have to do it together. There we go. Questlove, come home. Join hands. Anyway. And Karen. I like your time. Let's embrace our imperfect allies.

Scott Galloway: Yes, let's embrace them. When you get attacked and you're like, you say to people, you know, like, aren't at the end of the day, isn't there like an 80 or 90% overlap on the really important shit that we agree on?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I agree.

Scott Galloway: So we're going to spend all our time ship posting each other on the 10% we don't agree on?

Kara Swisher: Yes, that's why I appreciate my talk with Karen. It was great. She's a great, everyone, I urge everyone to read her piece about that because I see her point too. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Commercial break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you, I can go first or you can go first?

Scott Galloway: You go first.

Kara Swisher: I'm going to do something happier for my win which is besides we've talked about the no kings I thought that was a total win and everything else but I'm going to do something silly Lilo and Stitch I see why it's making a billion dollars at the box office you saw that I saw it and I loved it I took Clara and Saul and Amanda and I went and the popcorn was flowing and everything else it was completely charming what a charming wonderful cast story magazine. It was diverse in a great way. It was just heartfelt. It was great to look at. And I know I was first like, how is it making so much money? I didn't like the cartoon version. I didn't. It's huge. It is. I didn't, I never liked it of all the many movies I watch with my kids, my older kids. But this is, it's a huge movie. It's a great movie. It's totally worth your time. And I enjoyed it every bit of it's utterly charming and the two main characters the two sisters and the side characters are all great too but are are wonderful just why i didn't know either of them and they were both wonderful and what a great job disney good job even though you shouldn't have paid trump that money also um but great movie and my fail it has to be a figure out a way to join together in the lessons of this no kings to protect people because I am so disturbed by how many people have told me who are public servants that they're terrified and they should be as evidenced by what's happened. Some guy gets in his head to be angry and take it out on people. It's just there's I don't quite know how to prevent that and it's really it's scary. It's a very scary thing for people who are outspoken. And so I would, I just, I'm not sure there's a solution to that except, you know, I don't, just to bring it down the temperature. And it's very hard when there's a president who loves raising the temperature almost continually into a fever that creates all kinds of bad impulses on all sides. But although I do, I blame most, a lot of this on the polarization social media and gerrymandering and Trumpism in many ways because it's always dunking, constantly dunking. And it's gotten the rest of us dragged along into its ugly wake. Anyway, that's my go.

Scott Galloway: So you know what my favorite line from Lilo and Stitch was?

Kara Swisher: What?

Scott Galloway: It's can, not gone. It's gone. Please write in. It's can. It's not can. It's not. Look in my hotel room. Look at yours. It's canned. Okay. You can call it canned. Hi. Can I have the French fries? Get it? French fries and canned. I'm about to go have a 62-euro club sandwich.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, a 62-dollar club sandwich, which you don't finish. That's my favorite part is you never finish your fucking sandwich.

Scott Galloway: I don't need a lot.

Kara Swisher: I know, but why would you pay that much money? I would just go.

Scott Galloway: Because I can. I can. Because I can.

Kara Swisher: You can. Yeah.

Scott Galloway: I cannot. It's like, why does a rich man get blowjobs in his Rolls Royce? Because he can. Anyways. Anyways, I have two wins. My first already talked about. I do think that the IDF and the bold, like courageous, in my opinion, attack, I think the world is safer. I think there's risks in any war. But I do think Iran barreling towards a nuclear weapon was just a bad idea for everyone. And I think, again, the Ukrainian army and the IDF continue to do the dirty, dangerous, courageous work of the West who spends $800 billion on the military and yet has intraparty fights on whether we should or shouldn't do stuff. I'm not entirely sure why we would spend this kind of money. No one's invading the U.S. So unless we're going to make this isolationism from the far right, it's like, okay, if you're an isolationist, then let's take some of that military spending and put it back into Medicare or Medicaid. but to want to increase the military budget from $800 billion to $1.1 trillion and then wring your hands over trying to take a stated enemy who says death to Israel, death to America, back from the brink of nuclear armaments, okay, then fine. Then cut our military budget in half because Mexico or Canada are not invading us. Anyways, my win is what I feel was an attack, a courageous attack on the nuclear facilities of Iran by the IDF to make the world a safer place. My other win is yours. I just think there's no kings. These protests are just inspiring. I think that Americans who decide to give up a weekend day and go join hand in hand with their brothers and sisters and peacefully protest creative signs, creative outfits. I just thought it was inspiring. And as someone who's living abroad, it made me feel really good about moving back. I'm really looking forward to moving back. I think that we have endured worse than this. And it's the citizenry, the media, and the courts that are the firewalls here. Up until this point, I think a lot of people were worried, like, where is the citizenry here? And we saw it on full display this weekend. I thought it was just wonderful and hugely motivating, inspiring for the rest of us. So those are my two wins. And also, I'm excited to see you. We'll be together tonight. Are you coming? Oh, you're coming in. Oh, you're coming in for the dinner, right?

Kara Swisher: Yes. Yeah. You're coming over to my hotel for this iHeart thing.

Scott Galloway: Later. I'll be there later and I'll be going through your room. I'll be ordering the club sandwich, but go ahead.

Kara Swisher: Just celebrating just how dominant the radio business is.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, we're doing okay. We're up. Come on.

Kara Swisher: Oh, no, we're podcasts. Oh, well, I guess iHeart is podcasts, isn't it? Yeah. They're doing pretty well. We'll have a good time. Don't worry. You know, my favorite, this is my favorite conference in the world, that we are still relevant conferences. Advertising execs give awards to each other and we all realize that a Pepsi commercial doesn't really mean anything anymore. Anyway.

Scott Galloway: I like ad awards. Usually they're pretty good. The ads are pretty good. I like ads.

Kara Swisher: No, they're wonderful. They're just irrelevant. Of all the award ceremonies, I like the ad awards best because I like them. Although I have to tell you the Tony Awards were funny.

Scott Galloway: The Tonys? I know, the gaming. Again, you need that tricoxigan. I understand. Anyway.

Kara Swisher: That tricoxigan will take you off Tonys or Broadway. I've never taken tricoxigan. That's good. I don't plan to.

Scott Galloway: You got to admit that's good. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send off your questions about business tech or whatever is on your mind, go to nymag.com slash pivot to send a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on on with Kara Swisher, I spoke to a panel of millennial leaders about how to rejuvenate the Democratic Party. But let's listen to a clip of Representative Greg Kassar, it's pronounced Kassar, Scott, from Texas.

Kara Swisher: [Audio clip plays] When the Secretary of Education was in my committee the other day, Linda McMahon, she's worth $3.2 billion. The committee started like hissing at me for asking her how many millions of dollars she's going to make when we pass this billionaire tax cut bill. That was seen before as like rude. But if it's the only way that finally our voters can hear us, maybe we pick the right message, but what if they don't even hear it in the first place? They can get filled with all the Republican propaganda on their phone without us competing.

Kara Swisher: As you must know by now, politeness is not my favorite thing. I figured that out about halfway through this podcast. Anyway, it was a great show. It was a really interesting group of young people, and they actually had some great ideas, and they're pretty ballsy. I really am not sensitive, which was great, which was terrific, and they mixed it up a lot. I appreciate it. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channels. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, get on your Zodiac and come find me, but before that, read us out. You know it the most.

Scott Galloway: Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie and Todd, enter into this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Miss Saveri, and Dan Shalon, the Shakur Rose, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine on mymag.com. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business live from Cannes.