Russia Invades Ukraine, Texas Gov.'s Attack on Trans Youth, and Guest Ben Stiller

Kara Swisher: Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique. Fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say. So we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe. Expose corruption wherever we find it. And give fresh perspective on everything. From wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.

Scott Galloway: AI agents are getting pretty impressive. You might not even realize you're listening to one right now. We work 24-7 to resolve customer inquiries. No hold music, no canned answers, no frustration. Visit sierra.ai to learn more.

Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I am the father of dragons. Given everything that's going on, I have a fun story to share, Kara.

Kara Swisher: All right. Tell me.

Scott Galloway: So, you know, we're at war. We're at World War III. But go ahead. Please. I got a distraction from that. So every morning my son claims he has the plague. Something's wrong with his... he calls them "intestinals" and he just can't go to school. Five out of five days. And so we drag his ass out of bed and force him to go to school. And yesterday, same thing. "I feel nauseous." We're like, "Sorry, boss, you're going to school."

And then I get the call from Nurse Amanda. "Oh, Nolan's not feeling well. He threw up in class. Can you come get him?" So, boom, jump in the car, head to the school. And out of the nurse's office comes this sweaty, pale little Nolan. And with this little, like, singular purpose, expensive looking plastic bag, which is for what we all think it's for. And Nurse Amanda says, "Lots of liquids. Shouldn't come back to school tomorrow."

I get him in the car. And I'm like, "You all right, buddy?" And he says, "Dad." He said, "I went up to Mr. Handler's desk and I told him I felt nauseous and then I started vomiting and it was like the breath of a dragon." And he looks at me with pride and he goes, "And everyone was scared of me and I wouldn't stop." And he goes, "So you know what I did?" I'm like, "What?" And he goes, "I started chasing people and I started laughing so hard."

So I pulled over and I'm like... and then he looks at me and I go, "Did you catch anybody?" And he looks at me, he goes, "Ethan. He's slow."

Kara Swisher: So on Friday, we will all gather. You have a vomit predator as a child.

Scott Galloway: So on Friday, we will all gather in the chapel where they will read all the kids in the fifth grade who made honor lists. My son will not be on that list, but I will be. Everyone in that auditorium will know that I am the parent of the child who chases other fifth graders down and vomits on them. I could not be more proud. He was like a dragon. And people were scared of me. He was so excited about that part.

Kara Swisher: Oh, good God.

Scott Galloway: But I'm going to have to take your children.

Kara Swisher: That's what we call social distancing in Florida. Ron DeSantis would be proud of my son right now. You go throw up on other children. Welcome to Florida.

We're going to talk about Florida and Texas right now. But later we're going to talk about Russia invading Ukraine, obviously, and what could mean for markets and cyber attacks. And we'll speak with Ben Stiller, our stalker, Ben Stiller. He's also a famous director and actor. He tweeted at us and we brought him on the show because his new project, Severance, actually has a sci-fi twist about work-life balance. It's really quite gripping and disturbing. And it's also funny. So we're going to talk to him about that.

But let's go to this first big story in Texas, because we talked last week about this. And I think I was trying to get this point out to you, and then here it happened. Trans children and their parents may soon be subject to investigation thanks to a new order from Governor Greg Abbott. In a letter to his state's Department of Family and Protective Services, Abbott said that sex change procedures are a form of child abuse. This has been a controversial issue, but this goes a step way beyond having discussions about it. The letter goes on to say that teachers and medical professionals have a duty to report on affected children or face criminal penalties.

A year ago, I interviewed someone who worked on these trans issues, and he said this was coming using narratives like the swimmer in... I forget where they are, the college swimmer... or things like this idea, and they were going to weaponize it. When you could have normal discussions about things like that and debates, they're going to do something like this, which feels very Handmaid's Tale to me. So I mean, I usually don't speak this way, but I'm feeling a big sense of deja vu of many, many years ago when the AIDS crisis started. So tell me what you think here.

Scott Galloway: Well, you know, Kara, you said something that... so I love... when you think about what the term insight means, it's usually you say something and it gets people to think a different way. And the moment they are exposed to some sort of new concept, real insight is it seems obvious once the person says it. It's surprising and obvious. And I remember being at Pivot MIA, which we haven't mentioned in seven minutes, so it's time. But John, I think it was John Oringer, the founder of Shutterstock, said, "I've always struggled with what will the epicenter or the center of gravity for the Florida tech scene be?" Because whether it's Silicon Valley or in New York, it was media. What would be the industry that we would innovate around? And John Oringer said, "Probably healthcare." And the moment he said it, it just made all sorts of sense. And I thought, "God, that's so obvious." That was real insight.

And you, in our last program, said something that the moment you said it, I had not thought of it, and it made a ton of sense to me, and I'd like you to expand on it. You said that when you're a child and you're gay, sometimes your parents are the enemy. Sometimes they're not your advocate, and you need a safe space. And I had never thought of that, and the moment you said it, it just made all sorts of sense. So I would like you to talk more about that.

Kara Swisher: Well, you know, your parents don't understand and they're actually either worried for you or they actually have real problems with gay people and or trans people or whatever you happen to be expressing yourself as. And they're hostile. And in fact, I don't need a safe space. I need equal rights and I need to be able to be who I am. I think the right spends a lot of time on all these false narratives about safe spaces, etc. And of course, the left does do some of that. But honestly, it's really just asking to be left the fuck alone.

I had a big argument with Peter Thiel, who also is gay, about this. "You want special rights." I'm like, "No, I have children, Peter. I want equal rights that other people have, that everybody else has." I'll never forget that discussion. And I think one of the things that they don't realize is that you spend a lot of time not just... and this is a different era that I was growing up in, where it was very problematic to say you were gay. But now it is again, it seems like, especially for trans people. For trans people, absolutely. And the next penny to drop is against gay people, et cetera. And we're going to play something in a second to give you an idea of how they're knitting all this together.

But you have no allies. You often have no allies. You may have an ally at school, a teacher. You may have some friends who are understanding or parents of friends. But for the most part, you're hiding and figuring this all out on your own. And a lot of people actually went online to do this. My ex-wife ran Planet Out, which was a very important space for people to be able... they used to say they had a lot of members of the Vatican. Like wherever you're hiding, there used to be places online. And AOL was a very strong proponent of this, that you could have a place to go. Not necessarily safe, because it wasn't always safe. But it was a place where you could express yourself, where you couldn't before, where you'd have to hide.

And so I think one of the things that's happening now is it's become even more weaponized, a lot of what's happened. Because these groups are knitting together narratives. And it actually relates to the Ukraine, because we'll talk about Putin later. But to see the right wing use anti-trans narratives... CRT was another one of their narratives that they took and reduced a complex issue. They reduced to a rage tactic. The anti-trans stuff is the same stuff. Like, "Look, the swimmer." It's like, "Oh, my God. It's not happening."

Scott Galloway: Right, exactly.

Kara Swisher: No, it's a narrative designed to scare and reduce people to cartoon characters. But in this case, the right wing is using anti-trans, anti-gay and pro-Putin nexus in real time. And they're using the Internet to do it. I don't want them taken off, but I want you to see what they're doing and how powerful their tools are now, because it's the same people who were there before. They just have better weapons. Let's play this from a Steve Bannon show. I think it's called War Room with Eric Prince, another not Prince person. But go ahead.

[Audio clip plays]

Kara Swisher: Like so many things in there. What they're doing is they're taking this worry and morphing it into something. "There's boys swimming in girls' meets." One. There's one of them. "There's flags, gay flags, pride flags." Like, what the fuck do they care about a flag? Like, are you kidding me? "There's gender issues. Who's a boy? Who's a girl?" And then there's the Russians. And what they're saying is "Putin ain't woke." And then they're bringing in cancel culture. It's astonishing how much stuff is going on here.

And their essential message, and Tucker Carlson's doing it on TV too, is "Putin didn't do anything to me. What did he do to me?" But what he's doing to gay people in Russia... So what's happening here is, and we are useful idiots by playing along with what they're doing, which is reducing people to cartoons who they can then hate and works with this base. Because a lot of people have moved on. I tweeted about this. But a lot of people will go right back to where they were in the days of AIDS when there was a lot of hatred towards gay people, for example. And they will go right back there because this, what they're doing, what I said today, it's like Omicron. It affects the mentally unvaccinated here. And it will work. It will completely work. And it worked with CRT. It worked here. It works there.

And so I find this to be... to say I was under siege when I was a kid, that ain't nothing of what's coming for people when they're doing, and they're making it real in Texas. I got to say, it's frightening.

Scott Galloway: And Abbott's not the only Republican beating this drum. Florida Senator Rick Scott, the bazillionaire, released an 11-point plan for the GOP should they retake the House in November's midterm election. Scott's agenda includes a declaration that there are two genders, a ban on critical race theory and a provision to treat social media platforms as publishers, among much else.

Kara Swisher: And they're using these tools, these Internet tools. And again, I don't think we should silence them, but you have to be aware of what they're up to here, just like they were with magazines or cable or whatever.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, in some ways, it's a little bit more insidious than the AIDS crisis politically, not in terms of the devastation of the AIDS crisis. But I do think over time, the AIDS crisis, I think America had slowly but surely, a more empathetic response, because you started finding out... so many people were affected by the AIDS crisis. And then you found out your good friend's son was dying. And you felt as if you were amongst the walking dead. And then it just... I think a lot of people kind of woke up and said, "This is something that we need to be more thoughtful about." It kind of touched a lot of people who saw up close and personal that we need to be more loving and empathetic to people. And I think America over time had a more correct response.

This is when you talk about one athlete swimming, it's like the emotional argument that says, "Well, if you're going to allow abortion at any time, that means before a woman delivers, she could technically have an abortion." And the reality is that's an emotional argument meant to trigger a visceral response. And the reality is that never happens. And this is the same thing. The trans community is an important community. They deserve the same rights as everybody else. But they're easier for them to create a hateful narrative around because most people have a visceral response. And then, unlike the AIDS crisis, may not be touched by it as readily. So I feel like this is incredibly dangerous.

Kara Swisher: Well, the bathroom thing was here and gone and now it's back again. But remember, that was like the biggest crisis in America. Now it's some swimmer. Now it's cancel culture. And everyone else who plays along are useful idiots to these people. But they talk about Steve Bannon and his merry band of anti-American sycophants for some reason see a trans swimmer as a bigger threat to America. One person. And cancel culture. Than the 190,000 Russian troops amassing and now incurring the border in the Ukraine. They pick the wrong enemy.

Scott Galloway: No, no, no. They like him because they want to be him. You do understand that. And honestly, if they like Russia so much, they should move there. They always use that term. "If you like it so much, move there." Then go there. Go and live with them there. And abuse gay people, et cetera.

In this kind of bridge to Ukraine, I actually think that there is a positive outcome from Putin's incursion into Ukraine. It's given a little bit of connective tissue back to NATO and the West and says, "All right, we're not each other's enemies. We are actually each other's allies." And it's given NATO, which had gone... was incurring brain death... they couldn't figure out what it was for. Was it there to push back against China, extremists? All of a sudden it's brought new purpose and meaning to NATO. I think the West, for the first time in a while, is going to have an existential threat that gets us past this bullshit notion that maybe we're competitors, but we're not adversaries, we're allies.

Kara Swisher: And I hope that America... I would like to think that people would wake up. But this is a drumbeat on the right, like a drumbeat. I don't want to call my mom because I don't know what she's going to say to me. Like, honestly, who knows? Because it's been on Fox, on these social media platforms that they're using. By the way, Apple is... Bannon's show got kicked off a number of platforms, but not Apple and not iHeartRadio. But I don't want to get him kicked off. I'd like to see him in plain sight, even though he's really...

I do have more faith in America that when they talk about what's going on in Texas, when it really comes out, that we have something where trans children and their parents may be the subject of investigation and that this letter in the state's departments of family and protective services, the governor says that sex change procedures are a form of child abuse. And then it goes on to say teachers and medical professionals have a duty to report on affected children. I mean, we're talking about an incursion into people's rights that is so far from original basic GOP principles. It's their old... it's their old, just the same people. I was back there. I remember them all. They were all there then. And now they have better tools. They're the same exact people. And this anti-gay and anti-trans nonsense was around then. I literally was like, "Oh, wow, they're still here." Of course they are.

And let me just say to them, we're still here. And if you think we're going to give up any ground on this issue, I have four kids to protect and they're big and lesbians are testy. So they better be very careful where they push because we're still here, even if they're still here. I feel like that. That's how I feel.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but I don't think like 5% of America, according to most studies, is LGBTQ. There are so many allies that believe in liberty, believe that America is about generosity and acceptance, that are going to, I think, rally around this and help moderates go, "You know what? Maybe the far left is crazy, but they're not crazy and mean. They're not crazy, mean, and un-American." And what's going on here is not only crazy, it's mean and it's un-American.

Kara Swisher: I do think some of this works, especially online. You know I tweeted this by the way: "The bathrooms and the trans swimmer and how many genders there are and all that rotten repartee here are not the point. The point of effective propaganda is to be reductive of complex issues and take out any nuance that is conducive to tolerance and commonality. They want us raging. And that's what they want. They win when we rage."

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I'm really disappointed. I always thought Rick Scott was a... I've never been a fan of Rick Scott, but I always thought he was a pragmatist. And this is him saying, "Hey, far-right crazies in Iowa, I'm running for president, and I'm crazy with shit shavings of crazy." It's repulsive.

Kara Swisher: By the way, Meg Whitman did the same thing in California. It didn't work there.

Scott Galloway: Well, you mean when all of a sudden she decided to narc on her nanny after 11 years?

Kara Swisher: No, no, no. She became a Prop 8 proponent at the time. She and I had quite a set-to, as they say. Look, I'd like to think I just have more faith in Americans. I have more faith in centrists. I have more faith in our institutions. I think we are going to have... and I don't want to be complacent about this. I'm trying to figure out how I can get involved in this. But the special interest groups on the left, our gay brothers and sisters, have enormous allies and advocates. And I think America is going to have a healthy immune response to this and realize that the enemy is hate, that the enemy is people who are un-American and want to diminish people and persecute them for things they can't control, and that the real enemy is amassing at the Ukrainian border.

Kara Swisher: I would hope, but I think it's been amplified by online in a way that wasn't there before. Speaking of telling stories, you could do movies. Movies started to change. Depictions started to change. This stuff endures in a way that's much more... it's mold. It's mold and it doesn't go away. I am very nervous for this. It's so effective. And at the same time, guess what? We have the same tools. So get ready.

Anyway, let's get to our second big story, Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Obviously, we just talked about it is in full swing as we record this. The situation is rapidly changing. Scott and I are not military experts. We are not going to talk about geopolitics. The attacks, effects on the stock, tech, and international business community are already apparent. Global stocks plunged this week and the Russian ruble briefly dropped by 10%. Ukrainian government websites went down on Wednesday in what's believed to be a Russian cyber attack. The outages follow similar attacks from last week, which shut down Ukrainian banks and websites. At least one English language publisher in Ukraine is now taking proactive measures to defend against these DDoS attacks.

And I just got an email from Nicole Perlroth saying she's never been more terrified of what's going to happen here. And so we've had her on the show. We're going to bring her back on, I think, on Monday to talk about it. Talk about this, of what happens with these disinformations, the uses, the cyber attacks, et cetera.

Scott Galloway: Well, people talk about this new form of warfare, a hybrid war, where it's not as much about military as it is about disinformation, about cyber attacks. I mean, Ian Bremmer, who I've been listening to... you know, as you get older, you realize that you don't want to fall victim to the notion that just because you have some domain expertise in one thing doesn't mean you have domain expertise in another. So I've been reading a lot of other people. I'm a big fan of Ian Bremmer, as you know.

So Putin launched war against Ukraine, a country that has in no way provoked or attacked Russia. Thousands upon thousands of innocent Ukrainians will die. What we're witnessing is a crime against humanity. And look, I think it's important... I love that special, The Fog of War and Robert McNamara, that the only way to defeat an enemy is to really put yourself in the shoes of them and understand. And if you try for a moment to understand what Russia is thinking, it's OK. "We were invaded from the West by the Germans. We have a lot more license to go into Ukraine than you did going invading Iraq." I think that's a fair argument.

And I also always go to the midlife crisis thing. I think this is a guy who is alone and has no relationships and wants to be the guy that reestablished Russia as a force in the world. Everyone around him has gone NATO, except for the Ukraine. Where I do think... I think the benefit here and how this hopefully gets solved without the type of military and destruction and death that it risks is that, one, I do think it's brought new meaning and resonance to Western allies and NATO. Two, you're already seeing an impact on the Russian economy. The ruble hit an all-time low against the euro. You are going to see nations... I believe Europe has become complacent and, quite frankly, spoiled by the military umbrella of NATO in America. And I think this is going to wake them up.

I also think that the soft power here is what ultimately probably... I don't want to call it wins but pushes back. And that is money is an addictive substance. And I spend a lot of time in beautiful areas where I run into a lot of very wealthy Russians. And one of the reasons so many Russians, for example, are in London is London has very strong private property laws. You can be a Russian oligarch and transfer your $700 million into London and live a fantastic Western life and not be subject to certain politics or criminal investigations or whatever it might be. Poison, perhaps.

I think that might change. I think if the U.S., and this kind of goes to the notion of why Bitcoin is an existential threat. When Western currencies are the default currency, any exceptional amount of wealth has to flow through Western institutions, which gives us the power. I mean, the gangster move here would be if the United Kingdom went back on some of the private property laws and seized or froze the assets of a bunch of Russian oligarchs. Because if the thousand wealthiest Russians all of a sudden no longer had access to their capital, they might call their buddies in the KGB surrounding Putin and say, "You know what, this just got much less fun for me." So I think the soft power here of economic sanctions might actually have more power.

Kara Swisher: That's an issue. But talk about the effect on the stock market. Obviously, things are going down and the cyber attacks people are quite worried about. The Biden administration warned last year they're vulnerable to Russian cyber attacks. Now the FBI is warning the private sector to prepare for possible attacks that Russia retaliates for sanctions that have happened and are more to come. And last year, the U.S. blamed Russian criminals, which means slash government, for cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS, the world's largest beef supplier. You know, you've been in boardrooms. How big a concern is cybersecurity in these companies? Because there's so many, it's such a... one of the things Nicole talked about is we're such a big landscape of attack. We're like a huge battlefield.

Scott Galloway: Huge surface area.

Kara Swisher: It's a good surface area to attack. And then you have the Chinese actually weighing in on Russia's side. A Beijing-based publisher seemed to have accidentally posted instructions on Ukraine coverage to Weibo. The message advised against posting pro-Western content or anything unfavorable to Russia, and they deleted it. So it's obviously also not just a cyber war. It's a misinformation war. It's a propaganda war. How do you think about that if you're an investor or a company as you're trying to wade your way through this?

Scott Galloway: Well, there's a lot there. So first off, in every board, you typically have a series of static reports where once every year you go through a succession report. And a good board is supposed to say, "Here are the potential people who could be the next generation of leadership." You have a legal report that looks at all lawsuits that have been filed against the company. And what you've seen in the last couple of years now is you get static cyber reports around what is the cybersecurity threats to the company, how many attacks we think have been planned, what is our strategy.

If I were a young person that was just an economic animal, it's pretty hard to see how cyber isn't going to be... cybersecurity. If you don't have a college degree, but you want to figure out a way to make six figures fairly quickly and you're decent at technology, decent at math, to go get a one or two-year degree, even online, in any school around cyber... I mean, it's one of those things right now where when they say we need... when the CIO comes in or the CTO comes into the board and says, "I need another X millions of dollars for cyber defense for the company," we all look at each other. No one knows enough about it. And we all just say yes. So these expenditures are about to increase. I can't imagine on a risk-adjusted basis a bigger growth area.

Now, as it relates to the markets, this might be the quote-unquote wrong reaction. But every major threat, geopolitical threat of the last 20 years in the markets has ended up being a buying opportunity. So wrongly or correctly, what you're already seeing in the markets today.

Kara Swisher: So what would you buy? Bitcoin? Would you buy crypto? What's the buy?

Scott Galloway: I don't... so I don't think that's the right way to approach investing. I think you don't want to... your emotions are your enemies. So when you hear about Russians going into Ukraine, your first inclination is "I need to sell." I wouldn't do that. You don't know. What you want to be is the investor that's never... unless you're a professional trader, which is less than 0.1 percent of the population has those skills or those resources. You want to buy good companies and you want to ride it out because you know what might happen here? Let me just say there's a 50 percent chance the markets... there's some sort of sunshine or possibility of a diplomatic solution and the markets rip up. Because every time of the last 20 years, there's been a geopolitical crisis that takes the market down. You look back and you think it was a buying opportunity.

So the strategy here is the same as it always was, and that is you buy good companies, you diversify, and you don't subject yourself to the delusion that you can somehow time markets and figure out geopolitical risk and how it's going to impact the markets. So what do you do right now, quite frankly? You do nothing. You maintain your investment strategy would be my thought because the markets, quite frankly... I mean, we have 190,000 Russians pouring over the border of Ukraine and the markets are down but not a lot. The interest rates move the markets more now than geopolitics.

Kara Swisher: It's been down, but I would say really if you're a big company you have to be focused in on this and the government has been trying to work at it but this is a little bit... well, we'll talk to Nicole, we'll get an actual expert to talk about it. You see it in oil. Oil is at a higher price than it's been since 2014. People are looking at different resources. People are looking at grain because Ukraine is, I think, 10% of grain. It's the breadbasket. So there will be some commodity trades. But just a lot of this stuff, the market is impossible to time like this. So I think it's a dangerous game to try and assume what the markets are going to do the next couple weeks.

Scott Galloway: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: But meanwhile, let's focus on a single college swimmer. OK, anyway, because that's the most important thing in the world right now.

All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll be here with our friend of Pivot, our new friend of Pivot, who solicited us online, Ben Stiller, about his new TV series, Severance.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?

Kara Swisher: With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn. From talking about sports to discussing the latest movies, everyone is looking for a real connection to the people around them. But it's not just person-to-person. It's the same connection that's needed in business. And it can be the hardest part about B2B marketing, finding the right people, making the right connections. But instead of spending hours scavenging social media feeds, you can just tap LinkedIn ads to reach the right professionals. According to LinkedIn, they have grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, making it stand apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company roles, seniority skills, and company revenue, giving you all the professionals you need to reach in one place. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you $100 credit on your next campaign so you can try it for yourself. Just go to linkedin.com slash pivotpod. That's linkedin.com slash pivotpod. Terms and conditions apply. Only on LinkedIn ads.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Ben Stiller is an actor, producer, and director known for hits like Zoolander, Tropic Thunder, and Escape at Dannemora. And as we are happy to learn, he's also a Pivot listener and fan. His latest project is the Apple TV series Severance, about a world in which corporate employees have their brains erased every day when they leave the office. It's a timely show as workers renegotiate the idea of work-life balance in the real world. Ben Stiller, welcome to Pivot.

Ben Stiller: If only people could see what was happening right now. Little treat for Ben.

Scott Galloway: I like how you roll, Scott. You just pop in, do your thing. You got lots of stuff going on. Cara doesn't know this, but you and I are very close.

Kara Swisher: I'm not sure you know it either, but we are very close.

Ben Stiller: Really? How so?

Scott Galloway: Ben and I – Ben, don't play Chloe. Ben loves my Twitter feed. I feel an attachment with Ben. And let's just skip to letter L in our friendship. We don't need to bother with A and B. Let's just skip to letter L.

Ben Stiller: I am a fan, Scott. I am a fan of your –

Scott Galloway: Yes, you did. You have a way with words.

Ben Stiller: Ben has gotten better looking as he gets older.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, because it's all his fantastic hair.

Ben Stiller: Over the pandemic, I just let it go. I let it go. I like it. I like it.

Scott Galloway: My kids want me to do that, but I decline. You've gone from awkward to reasonable. That's how we all want to age.

Ben Stiller: Oh, my God. Scott, Scott.

Kara Swisher: Thanks, Scott. Let's get to his show. All right. All right. I binged last night, by the way, on that thing. Loved it.

Scott Galloway: Loved it, right? It starts slow, and it gains...

Kara Swisher: You know what? I got to be honest, Ben. That's the kind of friendship we have. I can be honest.

Ben Stiller: Tell me.

Kara Swisher: After the first episode, season one of Game of Thrones, I'm like, I can't do this. And I did season two and it changed, or episode two, and it changed my life. It takes a while to get going, but the visual design, the set design, and it builds, and you do get addicted.

Scott Galloway: I had to watch the pilot of Breaking Bad three times before I went all in.

Ben Stiller: There you go. And then I got obsessed.

Scott Galloway: But I would tell anyone, if you're kind of like, I like it, I don't love it, trust me, this is a relationship that grows. I'm really enjoying it.

Kara Swisher: All right. Well, let's have him talk about it, actually. One of the things that's... Someone tweeted they thought was very smart that it's on Apple TV, by the way, which we want to get to. But it could have been a place designed by Apple. If you had ever spent any time there, it was super secretive. They cut people up by departments. So nobody knew what part of the iPhone, for example, they were working on. They wouldn't let one section see the other. Talk about the generalized idea. I know it's a writer, but what attracted you to this particular plot?

Ben Stiller: It was just the tone and the style of this script that Dan Erickson wrote that he submitted to our production company like five years ago. I wasn't even aware of any of those sort of resemblances to... I mean, I knew there were sort of like the big corporation and the idea of tech companies that you don't quite know what's going on there and all that. But there was just something about it that felt kind of rooted in these office workplace comedies that we've all been watching over the last 20 years. Movies like Office Space or shows like The Office or Parks and Rec. And yet it felt like it was sort of put through this lens of this weird, surreal, sort of abstract idea of, okay, everybody's coming in and having their banter and doing their thing and going through the motions, but they have no idea who they are, what they're doing, or why they're there. That greater kind of metaphor for the workplace, but really for life, it just sort of hit me. I thought, oh my God, this is hitting into something that I hadn't seen before. Tonally, I thought, oh, this could be something a little bit different. And yet also, I thought it could be funny, too. It is funny. It develops into something that has more of a story because there are things that happen. But I really liked the idea that you don't quite know what's going on. Is this funny? Isn't it funny? Is it strange? Is it scary? Is it surreal? Where are they? Are they in hell? What's going on? I thought those questions could be really fun to live in. And hopefully, as long as the show's creators have answers down the line.

Kara Swisher: So the first shot you did, and you directed the first show, correct?

Ben Stiller: I directed the first three and then I directed the last three. Aoife McArdle directed the middle three episodes.

Kara Swisher: Okay. So the first shot looking down at the woman on the table splayed on the table, which was so disturbing, was to create disorientation among everybody, right? What is happening here to this person?

Ben Stiller: Yeah. When I read this pilot, it is a woman lying on a conference table in a conference room with no windows. The question of how did she get there? What's she doing there? It is a weird, disconcerting image. Even in the marketing, Apple has a billboard of that. I thought, wow, that image brings up a lot of questions. It's not really what the show's about, but that's also what's interesting about the show. You can read into it a lot of different things.

Kara Swisher: Oh, for certain. But the idea of splitting your personality, which people try to do at work, right? They try not to drag their personal life into it, but it always does and vice versa.

Ben Stiller: The fact that you could just cut off from life when you go to work and just do your thing... I feel like so often in life, right now we all have personal things going on that we're thinking about. I have stuff going on. I'm sure you guys do too. But then you have to let it go. I think what we do creatively, both what I do and what you guys do, we take our lives and our life experiences and put it into our work. So it's a little bit different than people who just have to go to work and punch a clock and do things that are disconnected from what's going on in their inner life. That idea of being able to cut off and just do your work and then leave and not think about it... I think for a lot of people, that's an intriguing question. A lot of people probably would really want to do that.

Kara Swisher: Right, which they argue about. It's a technology. It reminded me a lot of Black Mirror in that regard.

Ben Stiller: There was an episode about forgetting a relationship or something like that. But I thought it was interesting for Mark, Adam Scott's character in this. He is grieving the loss of his wife. On the outside, he's got it together. But when he goes to work, he's not aware of that. Yet somewhere inside of him, he's feeling that stuff. It's going to come up, it's going to bubble up somehow. He doesn't quite know how. I thought that was really interesting. How much of our memories and our emotional memories would seep through if you do something like this.

Scott Galloway: I do think, isn't there a thing called Neuralink that Elon Musk is working on?

Kara Swisher: That's Elon Musk.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, that's to make us smarter.

Ben Stiller: There is a technology this relates to in the show. We talked to a neurosurgeon to try to get the technique right. What they're doing here in terms of putting in a chip that could cut off a memory center. So it's actually something that is possible.

Scott Galloway: Well, for Scott, it's called vodka. But Scott, go ahead. So first off, Ben, and I said this on the show, so it has some credibility. I thought 2018, the best original scripted drama was Escape at Dannemora. You putting Paul Dano, who I think is the next Ed Norton and Benicio Del Toro on screen together, just really powerful. And then I had the exact same sort of moment of awe when I saw John Turturro and Christopher Walken on the screen at the same time. And I thought, Jesus Christ, Ben Stiller has turned into Paul Thomas Anderson. Basically, I get the sense everybody takes your call now. For you to put these people on screen together, who get a million calls from a million different agents every day, what I want to know is... You're this comedic actor just making bank, but that doesn't automatically transition to a director who Christopher Walken calls back. What was the moment or the piece of work that gave you the credibility and the ability to get these types of calls returned? Because let's be honest, Adam Sandler, Christopher Walken doesn't return Adam Sandler's call, or maybe he does when he says, "I want to direct a film." You somehow made this transition that every great actor dreams of and very few have pulled off. What was the piece of work? What was the change in your career that gave you license to pull together this type of talent?

Ben Stiller: Thanks for saying that. First of all, I think Adam has done that as an actor now.

Scott Galloway: Yes, he certainly is.

Ben Stiller: I didn't mean to be careful about Adam.

Scott Galloway: No, no, no, because he doesn't direct.

Ben Stiller: But I think the kind of work he's doing now, he's transitioned. I actually haven't really done that kind of work as an actor that much. But I love directing. I've always loved directing. I've always directed stuff that I've been in. But I think it was really Escape at Dannemora. That was the first thing that I directed after all these years that I wasn't in. That's something I always wanted to do. To take the time to do that... The first day of shooting on that show, I was so happy because I was finally just doing one thing. I've always loved working with actors, but to really take myself out of the equation as an actor when I'm directing, I think made a difference for me in the process. I think actors appreciate other actors as directors on a certain level because they understand how weird and vulnerable it is to be an actor and how strange the process is. I feel lucky enough that that translated into Escape at Dannemora and that people responded to it. But it was kind of taking a moment to step back from acting and really focus on directing.

Kara Swisher: So when you're thinking about doing that and creating this visual, talk a little bit about that, because a lot of it has to do not just with the set. I think I read an interview with Adam Scott, who's the star here, who's fantastic. The set was disconcerting in how you create it, because it really is. I want to get out of that place so badly. And the hallways.

Ben Stiller: Right. That's the line we're riding. I want people to want to get out of there, but also not be able to get out of there, but also want to keep watching it. So you're trying to figure out what that balance is. Aesthetically, it should have a very specific feel that was based really on the building that we found to be the exterior. It's funny because I started listening to you guys. I was late to the game, probably like a year and a half ago. I was doing these drives to Holmdale, New Jersey from a house up in Westchester to where the Bell Labs building is. That's our exterior. That's where they developed the transistor and the beginnings of the cell phone. That building was designed by Eero Saarinen in the late 50s. When we found that, to me, that was the aesthetic of the show. That informed all the design of the sets for what was going on below. The logic of this company that has been keeping these people severed and wants to keep them cut off from digital technology, wants to keep them out of touch with the outside world. There was a justification for this sort of retro tech that was going on down there. That particular building, when you go in it, is like that. I've visited it many times. You get lost. The scale of it is amazing. There are still old finishes from the original design that feel so out of time. We designed this set that had all these maze-like hallways that we repurposed a lot. Dan in the writing had set up this environment where there were four people at cubicles in the center of the room. We decided to make the room kind of oversized and have a really low ceiling just to make it feel a little bit more oppressive.

Kara Swisher: It looks like the inside of a computer, actually. It looks like you're stuck inside a video game in a very unattractive video game, which is interesting.

Ben Stiller: We wanted to have these workstations where they're doing this refining, which we don't quite understand what it is, and have those workstations work. Everything is kind of working and analog, but those screens were really working. The actors could actually bin and gather the data that they were pulling into these little bins. Hopefully down the line, we'll get to understand more. They could actually do that all day. I think everybody was going a little crazy because we shot during the pandemic. Everything in the last couple of years... We shot for about nine months. I think Turturro started to go a little crazy in there. I think that informed the vibe that the actors were feeling for the show.

Scott Galloway: So you have Apple TV. First off, the production just drips money. It looks like they said, "Here's a blank check." That's Apple. Between the talent...

Ben Stiller: There's no such thing as a blank check.

Scott Galloway: Well, my brother, it looks pretty close. I mean, I look at everything and I think, could they have spent any more money, whether it's the Lennon facade or the lighting or the talent? Tim Cook probably pulled it out of his drawer. Seriously, my next iPhone is subsidizing your midlife crisis here, Ben.

Kara Swisher: Scott.

Scott Galloway: Anyways.

Kara Swisher: Scott.

Scott Galloway: We're friends. We're friends, Kara.

Kara Swisher: No, you're not. You're not friends. Put us in the room. You are not friends. You are not. He's never going to see you. But go ahead. Ask a question. Put us in the room. You're the director. Quite frankly, with this talent, with this story, with this budget, if this doesn't work, it's your fault.

Scott Galloway: Okay, Scott. Yeah. Now you're nagging him. There is pressure. There definitely is pressure. What are the moments that are better than people don't expect? And what are the moments that are worse? Because you are, I mean, to a certain extent, this is your ball. This is your shot. What were the best things to happen to you to the upside and to the downside during this nine-month period?

Ben Stiller: You actually are picking up on the reality of doing one of these things. You kind of go all in. I always motivated first from the creative. I love this script. I want to make this show. It took us three years plus to even get it mounted from when we discovered the script and started working on it. It started to grow as we worked on it. The pandemic hit about six weeks before we were supposed to start shooting. We were prepping for about six months before March of 2020. Then we shut down and started up again. Those things all affected the cost and the process of making this. Ultimately, at the end of the day, you're in the hole with something where you go, okay, I think I see what this is. I've got these amazing people I'm working with. Once you start doing it, hopefully you have a partner, whether it's Apple or Endeavor Content, who is the studio on this. You just have to say, this is what we see it, and you fight for it. You fight for what you think is going to make the show what it should be. The more you go along, the less perspective you have on whether or not it's going to work. You just have to go with your initial instincts. This was a two-plus year project, probably one of the longest things I've ever worked on consistently. At the end of it, I was just like, okay, we just finished it. We got through it. We made it the way we wanted it to be. I hope people like it. I hope it does well. I can't control that. Yes, there's a lot of money behind this. Yes, if it doesn't work... I've been in those situations where it doesn't work. You put it all in and you put your best foot forward and you're deep in and it doesn't work. That sucks. It doesn't feel good. But it's out of your control also. On this one, I felt walking away was like I left it all on the floor. Hopefully people will connect.

Kara Swisher: Is it different, though, working for a big tech company with endless sums of money? This is sort of a push-pull in Hollywood right now. Working with, everything is streaming, obviously. This could have been a movie. This could have been a TV series. What has changed in the work of Hollywood? Because there's an ongoing struggle with a lot of sort of old Hollywood people about where it's headed with streaming.

Ben Stiller: It's totally changed. I listened to you talk about it and where the movie industry has gone. The upside is there's more money being put into productions like this for streaming. I found over the last years, really with Escape at Dannemora, that I was able to do the kind of thing I wanted to do as a director that was much harder to do in movies. In streaming limited series and series now, you can go into genres and have the support and do things in a way that... Movies are much more oriented toward these bigger movies that are just about the opening weekend. Those kind of movies are just not getting made. I think that's the upside. The downside is it's all this big menu on your screen of things that are all very different. Yet it's like, hey, should I watch a movie? Should I watch a TV show? Should I watch a special? Should I watch a documentary? They're all just tabs in front of you. There's no separation anymore. I love going to the movies, but I also am guilty of sitting on my couch and saying, well, it's much easier to watch it this way.

Kara Swisher: Has it changed the way you think of not just celebrity, but creation? Because a lot of directors, Christopher Nolan, are rejecting it, but it's the facts. It's where it's going. Some of the things I talked about very early was you realize this is the way it's going, just like the internet did to music. Is that a crisis for people in Hollywood? Because you've got your foot in both worlds.

Ben Stiller: It's changed everything about the economics of it. I think people like Chris Nolan who can do that and directors who stand up for things like shooting on film and preserving the cinematic experience, I appreciate that. I don't think they're rejecting it as much as standing up and keeping something going that's going to hopefully exist within this new world. The movie industry has changed totally in terms of the economics of how decisions are made on movies. At the end of the day, I wish I was more knowledgeable about or cared more about all that stuff. But I really love making stuff. I love making movies. I love acting, I love directing. Wherever I'm going to have the opportunity to do what I love to do, I'm going to try to find that and have to work within that. But I miss the old days of having a movie come out and what that meant and the excitement of that. It used to be fun to have a television show that everybody would watch and then there'd be a conversation about it in the culture. Now it's so much harder to cut through. That's the stress that I feel with something like this. I just hope people will find it. I hope in this sea of so much, because there's just so much.

Kara Swisher: Right now, that's just Yellowstone and Euphoria, which couldn't be more the same, actually, if you think about it.

Scott Galloway: So people don't know this, but Ben and I were at UCLA at the same time.

Kara Swisher: And that's what I saw.

Scott Galloway: I know. Ben, you got to learn. Questions are just an opportunity to talk about me. So I graduated. He dropped out. Please ask me. I'm on a podcast with Kara Swisher. You're going to the Academy Awards with Tim Cook. So kids drop out of school is the lesson here.

Kara Swisher: No, you made the right choice. You did okay.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, right. You did just fine, Scott. Anyway, I'd love to just get your thoughts or your advice to your younger self. There's just no getting around it. You're an impressive man. What would you tell younger men? What advice would you give yourself 30 years ago coming just dropped out of UCLA? What would you say to that young man and what would you say to young men today?

Ben Stiller: To me personally, I would say relax and just take a breath and just let stuff happen. I think I was very, very impatient and really ambitious. That's why I dropped out of school. I regret dropping out of school, honestly, because you never have that experience again, that chance to just have the time to explore different areas. I was very much wanting to fulfill my dream and my ideas of what I wanted to be doing. At the end of the day, it's going to happen the way it's going to happen. As I get older, you just really appreciate the moments and the time that you have doing the things that you love doing. When you're younger, you don't think about that as much. I had my head down going, going, going, charging. I would say if you love something, follow that dream, go for it, but also don't feel like you have to push, push, push. In this world right now, it's kind of crazy because people have success at such a young age. In show business, they're expected to do that. Both my kids, I think about that. Just taking the time to have that experience in school and to let yourself flounder a little bit too. But I would never have listened to myself back then at all. I would have said, sure, fine.

Scott Galloway: So I want to fast forward and follow up on that question. You talked about going into production for nine months. I don't think there's any way you can be this successful and this relevant and have it not come at a cost or a trade-off. Can you talk a little bit about being a dad, being a husband, and the trade-offs or any learnings around trying to maintain that type of career trajectory and maintaining healthy or not maintaining healthy relationships?

Ben Stiller: Oh, gosh. I'm the least probably right person to talk to about that because I've made so many mistakes over the years. I think all I can say is I feel like I've started to learn from the mistakes I've made in terms of trying to find happiness in my relationships because that's the thing. With your kids, when my kids were younger, I was working, working, working all the time. Now, when I do work, I really go into it, but I make choices. Both with Escape at Dannemora and with Severance, I was working in New York and it's not going on location. Spending time being around your kids as much as you can, even if they're doing their own thing, just being there. I've made so many mistakes, Scott, that I feel like all I can say is I think I've started to learn from them, both in my relationship and my marriage and with my kids. Being present with your kids when you're there. But it's an ever-changing, evolving thing. Right now, I'm really grateful for what I've got going on in my life.

Kara Swisher: All right. I'm going to shift it back to Severance because that's about this idea of work-life balance. And not just that, but the splitting of work. Right now through the pandemic, this show resonates quite a bit because after the pandemic, people aren't going back to work. They have their work at home and it invades their home in the other direction.

Scott Galloway: Jesus Christ. I was just getting somewhere with Ben and you go back to fucking Big Tech.

Kara Swisher: Oh, stop.

Scott Galloway: Yes, we're going to.

Kara Swisher: We're going to talk about this.

Scott Galloway: I finally have my Oprah moment with Ben Stiller and you go back to Big Tech.

Kara Swisher: No, there's no Oprah moment here. Thank you, Ben, for that thoughtful answer. Anyway, anyhow.

Scott Galloway: I want you to break down the blockchain and Bitcoin for me, please. Please.

Kara Swisher: We will in a second.

Scott Galloway: Come Rocket is replacing the dollar, Ben. That's all you need to know.

Kara Swisher: Stop it. Sorry, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: Stop it.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. I'm so embarrassed. So we invite a nice boy over for dinner, and here you are behaving like this. So in returning to the office, one of the things that a lot of people in tech I know did, they still have these big, beautiful offices. They still have not just tech, but they lead the way in that idea of work as home, and now home is work. When you're doing... in this office, one of the things that's important are these relationships developed at work. What happens between Petey and your main character and Margaret? What happens in this world now in the real world?

Kara Swisher: It's almost more dystopian than this one is.

Scott Galloway: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: Well, I mean, it's so disconnected. I mean, here we are, we're just all doing all of this over screens all the time. I edited the whole show. I'd say like 90% of the editing I did at home on my computer with my editor who was in Brooklyn. I was in Westchester and we just were, and the only time we actually ever came together was actually to shoot the show and then everybody would leave. And there was, it was very, and of course, everybody was in, you know, PPE and everything.

Ben Stiller: I think, you know, the work, I never experienced that, the sort of like office work life, you know, I just was always outside of that. But in-person collaboration is important for creativity and inspiration.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, for sure.

Ben Stiller: And I think now when you have an in-person meeting with someone, it feels very different. It feels, you know, I mean, obviously it's, you know, more rare, but that connection really does make a difference. And I think, you know, the work in the show is these people go to work. They don't know anything about their outside life. So all they have, they're almost like children because they've only been alive in their heads since they got activated down there. So, you know, the relationship that Mark and Petey have, sort of like his kind of like his older brother, you know, it's really the only sort of emotional connection that he has in his life is down there with that person. Then all of a sudden that person's gone. And that's another metaphor I think is interesting in the show. When people sort of get, they leave or they get fired or they leave the job, all of a sudden they're gone. Yet at the company, they say, we don't have things like death down here, but they really do because people just disappear. And that's kind of, I think, what we deal with in life with loss, where people are just there and then they're not there. And that to me is so much at the heart of how we process our relationships, that feeling that inevitably there's going to be that loss. So that somehow resonated for me in the show.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, they only have melon to talk about. That was painful.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, melon bars, that's where, in terms of what the rewards are, if that's all you have. The guy who plays the HR guy is fantastic. Everybody is.

Kara Swisher: So is Patricia Arquette. She's particularly menacing in a fantastic way. She's a great actress who just has a wonderful sense of humor and as a person, as a real social conscience, you know, but she just sort of jumps off the deep end and is willing to go, you know, to go for not knowing what it's going to be and take those chances, which I love.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, she plays evil very well.

Kara Swisher: Scott?

Scott Galloway: I'm curious if there's a box you want to check professionally in the next five years. Is it tackling a genre, a story, working a medium? Like if you think, wow. Zoolander in the metaverse, for example, what would that look like?

Ben Stiller: Yeah, what would that look like? Bad. It would look bad.

Scott Galloway: Ben, don't let Kara get in between us. Be honest. What is the box? In five years, you think I would really like to check this box professionally? What is it?

Kara Swisher: Could be Bitcoin. We don't care.

Scott Galloway: I want to mine some Bitcoin. I want to literally mine Bitcoin. What's the next thing for you? What would you, what do you want to, what bell do you want to ring here professionally?

Ben Stiller: It's been five or six years since I've acted, actually. And I think I want to try that again and go back in and try to figure out how to do that.

Kara Swisher: Comedic acting? Dramatic acting? Who would you like to work with? What would the story? Who is the person you'd want to portray?

Ben Stiller: I know.

Scott Galloway: Oh, my goodness. He's got a minute. Hold on. A guy like Ben, it's pretty clear you're a pretty thoughtful man. You've thought about this stuff. Let us in there. What would you love to do professionally in the next five years?

Ben Stiller: Maybe go out and do a play on stage and do that. I think I did that about 10 or 11 years ago. I found that the most challenging, exciting thing as an actor because you got to do it all yourself every night. I love directing, though, too. So I think if I could keep on making stories that – movies and shows that I'd want to see, that's kind of what I went back to a few years ago. It's like what I really would want to see this. So maybe acting some more, acting in something serious, acting in something funny. I'm not looking to have to go and do Shakespeare or something at this point.

Kara Swisher: What book or what story would you that you've read or would you most want to direct right now? If you could direct anything that hasn't been made into film.

Ben Stiller: I'm working on a limited series about Benedict Arnold.

Kara Swisher: Hmm. Wow. Great character.

Scott Galloway: Yeah.

Ben Stiller: And Oscar Isaac's going to play Benedict.

Kara Swisher: Oh, wow. Great.

Ben Stiller: And it's a really interesting story because he was such a huge hero of the revolution and then wasn't.

Scott Galloway: Vice president.

Ben Stiller: In the context of what the United States was, or not the United States yet, but what our country was becoming and how we now define it as the United States, but at that time, it was a lot, much more of a gray area. And so I find that, you know, especially what's going on right now, you know, something interesting.

Scott Galloway: The Rudy Giuliani of his day. I'm teasing. He was a little more brave, though.

Kara Swisher: I think he was a little more brave.

Scott Galloway: Oh, I get it.

Kara Swisher: Please, Rudy Giuliani's lost every narrative possible. Anyway, you can also mine Bitcoin. We will hook you up with our friends in Miami.

Scott Galloway: I just want you to explain it, to really explain it to me, because I, like every investment, went in high and got in at the highest point. And now-

Ben Stiller: It's important. When the numbers get evil, you'll recognize it. You'll know it when you see it.

Kara Swisher: Yes, but it's a thing. Little severance inside joke there. There you go.

Scott Galloway: Mendacious algorithms. That's one of my favorite Scott terms.

Ben Stiller: Mendacious fox is really the actual term. Feel free to use it in any one of your films or movies or whatever roles whatsoever.

Kara Swisher: Mendacious fox. Ben, thank you. Congratulations, Ben. I could not recommend it more. It's a wonderful show. It's called Severance. It's on Apple TV. The first episodes are now out. The first two, they come on Fridays. Is that correct?

Ben Stiller: Yeah, they're on Fridays. They come on.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. And I was going to say that they air, but they don't air. They drop or whatever.

Ben Stiller: Yeah. They drop it. They're not doing it all at once. You can't ban it.

Kara Swisher: And I'm so happy to be inside your pod here or be a part of this thing because I'm such a fan. You are now a friend of Pivot. It's really cool.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Dude, just like Severance, there's no getting out now. You're here, my brother. Pull up to the melon bar. You're an innie. You're an innie.

Ben Stiller: Anyway, thank you, Ben. We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Kara Swisher: So, Scott, that was very exciting. In any case, severance is really a mindfuck, so you should watch it. It's not a mendacious fuck. It's a mindfuck, and you should absolutely watch it.

Scott Galloway: No, because I know you. They send me all the episodes, so I'm up to fucking four in the morning learning about all this weirdness.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. It is addictive. I'm kind of into it.

Scott Galloway: It is. It's suffocating in the best of ways.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, one more quick break, and then we'll be back for predictions.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, predictions. Do you got any predictions?

Scott Galloway: I'm going to resist the temptation to make predictions around anything important. I'm going to talk about midlife crises and taxes.

Kara Swisher: Oh, all right.

Scott Galloway: I think Jeff Bezos is going to go full midlife crisis. I kind of like the fact he's leaning into his midlife crisis. I'm sort of enjoying it, watching it. And I'm not sure I wouldn't do it.

Kara Swisher: I love the midlife crisis explanation for everything.

Scott Galloway: Well, okay, let me put it this way. If this was a woman who was secure in a relationship, which would be fucking invading Ukraine right now?

Kara Swisher: Yes.

Scott Galloway: The majority of really bad. By the way, none of you are at midlife, but go ahead. The majority, well, the seven-eighths crisis, the seven-eighths life crisis. I'm convinced the majority of bad decisions in corporate America and geopolitics are a function of narcissists who can't get over the fact they're going to die.

Kara Swisher: Ah, yes, well.

Scott Galloway: Anyways, so going back to a better midlife crisis.

Kara Swisher: They are.

Scott Galloway: By the way, they are. Good news for Putin there. By the way, so back to the fun midlife crisis, which I am really enjoying a front row seat to, and that is Bezos midlife crisis. Jeff Bezos is going to buy the Denver Broncos or another NFL team.

Kara Swisher: Really? Why the fuck wouldn't he? Wouldn't you? Is he that interested in sports? I've never ever heard him talk about sports.

Scott Galloway: But he's interested in testosterone and taking his new hot girlfriend to really fun events. And he watched the Super Bowl with SoFi.

Kara Swisher: I have no interest. Mark Cuban loves sports. Balmer loves sports. I'm just trying to think. They really did. They really were huge fans. So who else owns it among the techie billionaires? Paul Allen.

Scott Galloway: Paul Allen.

Kara Swisher: Do you think Paul Allen loves sports? This is what they love. He's not living. They love going to – do you think Tim Cook loves the academy? These guys love –

Scott Galloway: Tim Cook actually loves Alabama football. I'm telling you. It's like – I'm not accusing him of not being a Bama fan. No, I'm just saying he's a fan. He's a big fan.

Kara Swisher: I didn't ever hear Bezos talk about sports ever at once. Jeff Bezos? Okay. for whatever it'll be. It'll probably, I don't know. Why the Broncos?

Scott Galloway: Because it's one of the few teams for sale. And I might be wrong. It might be another team, but the Broncos look like they're up for sale. But wouldn't you, if you were worth 150 billion bucks for a couple billion bucks, you get kind of nine or 18 awesome Sundays with your hot girlfriend. I would do it. By the way, I'm going to buy the Glasgow Rangers just in case, just so I can have like not as cool a midlife crisis.

Kara Swisher: I guess. It's interesting because it is, these people do have a lot of money. Pierre Omidyar, who obviously founded eBay and is very wealthy, bought invested in hotel chains. He bought the Montage Laguna, which used to be my favorite hotel. Right, the brand? I guess I don't know if he bought one of the hotels. I don't think he bought the brand, he bought one of the hotels. And I asked him, I'm like, why did you buy a sports team? He's like, because he can't. No, he's like, I hate sports. And they think you're supposed to, they make you think you have to buy a sports team, but I like hotels.

Scott Galloway: Oh, Bezos.

Kara Swisher: Anyways. Okay, that is our long and involved show. What a show this is. It's action-packed today. And of course, we'll be back on Tuesday for more. And starting next week, video clips of Pivot are coming.

Scott Galloway: Oh, no. What a thrill.

Kara Swisher: I know. From Salesforce Plus. Face for podcasting. You can sign up to watch them on salesforce.com slash Plus. P-L-U-S, actually, not Plu, but plus. And we're very excited. I think it's great we're going to be in video. I think we just, you know, we're going to have even more fans. They like us. Now they get to see us. It's going to be very exciting. Now they know how to find us.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, you're welcome. What a thrill. Good to see us.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, read us out, Scott Galloway.

Scott Galloway: Today's show was produced by Lara Neyman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jertod, Andrew, during this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Muse Solario. Make sure you subscribe to the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Who is the enemy here? Let's remember this. We're not each other. Americans aren't each other's enemies. The enemy just rolled over the border of Ukraine. Focus on who the real enemy is.

Kara Swisher: Mm-hmm.

[Ad break]