The Apple Vision Pro, Being Present, and Scott’s Hair

Kara Swisher: AI agents are getting pretty impressive. You might not even realize you're listening to one right now.

Ad Voice: We work 24-7 to resolve customer inquiries. No hold music, no canned answers, no frustration. Visit sierra.ai to learn more.

Ad Voice 2: Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique. Fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say. So we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.

Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher: Today, we have another Scott visit during what's supposed to be Scott-free August, but he never can quit us. That's really what's happening here. So we're opening our listener mailbag. What a thrill.

Scott Galloway: You're welcome. I'm literally, you went off opium. You went off the opium of daddy for a couple of weeks. Little taste of the dog. Little taste of the dog.

Kara Swisher: As this airs, what are you doing right now? Give me a visual.

Scott Galloway: What am I doing? I'm in this bad apartment in Aspen.

Kara Swisher: No, no, no. What are you doing when this airs? When this airs? In August?

Scott Galloway: Yes.

Kara Swisher: Just say, where are you right now when this airs? Give people a visual of you right now.

Scott Galloway: Okay. This is literally what I will be doing. My two boys will be dressed up as seals in the waves at Nobadeer Beach, and I will be on the shark app freaking out about how many refrigerators with teeth are now in Cape Cod. I will not be able to relax on the sandbar in the middle of the Atlantic called Nantucket as I ignore all the privilege and blessings in my life and stare at a phone, looking at these refrigerators with teeth that have been tagged by some brutally vicious scientist who's given me the ability to track great whites now. That will be the visual. That is me when we hear it.

Kara Swisher: Okay, that's you sitting on the beach. So it's Jaws, essentially. You're Roy Schneider in Jaws.

Scott Galloway: Scheider. Roy Scheider.

Kara Swisher: Roy Scheider. Yeah. I love Roy Scheider. Remember, he did that. He sat on the beach and was demented.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. No, I can't relax when my kids are in the water. There's literally seals 50 feet away. Anyway, that's what I'll be doing.

Kara Swisher: Are you eating soft serve in any way?

Scott Galloway: Soft serve? No.

Kara Swisher: Have you been to Nantucket?

Scott Galloway: Yes, I hate it.

Kara Swisher: It doesn't feel like your kind of place.

Scott Galloway: I don't like it. Everything's the same and they're proud of it. All the design is the same. They think that's great. That's called zoning care. I don't like it. Every building should not be the same. I like differences in things. Nantucket and the pants, the wide wheel corduroys. I don't like it. I'm going to Martha's Vineyard.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's the same thing.

Scott Galloway: It's different.

Kara Swisher: I got to admit, I didn't want to like Nantucket, and we love it. It's just so charming. And it's an island and the kids can run around and go crazy. Anyway, well, I'm glad we have that visual of you on the beach there. Think of him right now as we're taping weeks earlier.

[Transition]

Kara Swisher: Before we get started, a note that some of the messages have been edited for clarity and brevity. I'll read the first one.

Kara Swisher: [Reading] Hi, Kara slash Scott. Again, I'm first. Love the show. The question I have for both of you is, have we hit peak Apple? The stock just hit $3 trillion, but stock price can be a lagging indicator loaded with historic bias. It's sometimes hard to see beyond a serial winner until they start to stumble. Just ask Novak Djokovic. Here's the thing. Apple's value proposition is, quote, "the experience is the product." Problem is they ran out of Steve Jobs, Johnny Ive products. The goggles seem oddly unApple. Close to home, I just took delivery on my new M2 MacBook Pro. The kid's reaction: "Dad, that thing's a brick." That's not an Apple response. You pay for the oohs and ahs, not the sniggles and giggles. It's actually a great machine, but that's not the point. So for all Tim Cook's financial wizardry, does the product company have a product problem? Would love to hear your thoughts. Harry, let's go.

Kara Swisher: Scott, go for it. Go for your little rant on Apple.

Scott Galloway: No, it's like, I think demographics are destiny. If you look at probably the most powerful demographic trend in the world, it's population decline. Everyone was worried about the population bomb and it's detonated, but it's imploding. I think that's going to have huge ramifications on democracies and our influence around the world as we go into population denigration, where we become nations of old people, where all we do is take our entire tax base and support old people. But anyways, my TED Talk's over.

Scott Galloway: The second biggest one is income inequality. As we crowd more and more money into the upper decile of the global population, Apple is the ultimate self-expressive benefit brand. Apple very subtly says to people, "I have money, I'm a storyteller, I probably work in the creative industry, or I think of myself as a creative." That's a very strong self-expressive benefit, and that's the reason why people in Hungary will pay three months' salary to have an iPhone.

Scott Galloway: So on a structural level, or on a big picture macro level, it's hard to bet against Apple. The reason why you would bet against Apple is if you always need to set the macro factors and the brand factors. So to his point, it does look rich or "fully valued." If you were going to hold on to Apple for a long time, Apple's one of those stocks you give for a Bat Mitzvah or you put in your 401k. Because over the long term, it's just hard to see how Apple doesn't continue to thrive.

Kara Swisher: Okay. So you're not worried about anything in this regard.

Scott Galloway: I own Apple stock. I've owned it since 2008. If you needed money, this wouldn't be a bad time to sell it because it's trading at the upper end of its traditional PE ratio. But the reason I get to do these wonderful things is because, one, I found something I was good at. I live below my means. I created an army of capital I could invest. I invested in good companies. And then I didn't trade. I have owned Amazon and Apple since 2009. And they're up, I think, 30 and 50X respectively. So finding great companies and holding for the long term is still probably the best means of aggregating wealth.

Kara Swisher: As a fan of Apple, and I am of the way they run things. And again, you just said it's actually a great machine. That is the point. You're saying it's not the point. It is, in fact, the point. The people really, they're dependable in ways and delightful still, no matter how you slice it. They can have some misfires before in some products. But let me just say, I just bought another pair of AirPods. Everybody I saw on the plane had the Maxes that could afford them because they're great. And they have lots of choices in this area.

Kara Swisher: I do think this group of managers is getting older. So it's got to figure out who the new people are and whether they have the same kind of commitment. This group has been together forever. It's like watching the Rolling Stones or something. They're still real good, but at some point they're going to need a walker, that kind of thing. I don't mean that in an age-insulting way. It's just who are the fresh faces of that company, and they need to see them, because it is the same guys. It's the same eight guys. That would be my biggest worry over the long term. But we'll see where it goes. They are in a strong position. They do need to enter the AI picture on quick, too.

Kara Swisher: Okay, here's another one. Let's listen.

[Audio clip plays]

Listener: Hey, Scott and Kara. I'm an early 30s gay man who works in finance for a big-box retailer that recently pulled their pride collection after some angry conservatives complained and threatened store employees. I just got out of a town hall today where leadership announced that moving forward, moments like pride or other "heritage moments" will be greatly reduced in stores. The Zoom chat during the town hall was filled with people calling LGBT people groomers, as well as people in the LGBT community saying that this unfettered homophobia in the chat needs to be addressed. Naturally, the leadership deferred to the one LGBT member in leadership and had him be like the token gay to respond to all of this. Anywho, I guess my question is just what do I do here? I 100% disagree that giving into the loudest bigots in the room is the right call, but I'm kind of feeling powerless and like, I don't know about what to do with my future at this company. Anywho, thanks in advance.

Kara Swisher: Anywho, I love that you use anywho, sir. I would quit. I honestly could have company like this. I know which one you're talking about, but I am perplexed why they pulled back and they just wouldn't let this go over. Although right now I've been hearing from a lot of people who follow right wing groups. All they talk about is trans issues. They're obsessed with it and groomers and they've been overtaken by these people. This is their, they think this is the, it's bizarre and extreme, but it's everywhere within these groups. You are not going to shut these people up. They're really quite manic. They're terrible people, but they're not giving up. You should feel powerless.

Kara Swisher: The fact they're pulling just like gay flags. I mean, who cares? And when you say heritage, I assume you mean Black History Month or anything else. I just find this, I think these companies have got to do what Disney did, which is like, we're sticking with it. I think they're terrified at Disney about the white supremacists showing up in front of the gates at Orlando. So I would just hope these companies stick with it and not go backwards. I don't know what to say, Scott.

Scott Galloway: There's a few things. I do acknowledge that it's sort of a slippery slope. You would like to think as a company that, look, this is a platform for helping you create economic security for you and your family. With respect to politics, we're just going to try and avoid it. I understand that strategy. But when you're a retailer, you're talking about merchandising, you're talking about categories that drive your business that over-index gay, which will probably trigger some people, but it's true. You want to be seen as an organization that protects and that is on the right side of history. There's just no getting around it, regardless of what your personal beliefs are. If you want to be on the right side of history, you err on the side of acceptance and protecting special interest groups and evangelizing for their rights. Look at history. Anytime we have not protected and not espoused and advocated for our brothers and sisters across every race, creed, sexual orientation, you are on the wrong side of history.

Scott Galloway: This also goes to me as something about in-store behavior on a broader point. I'll sound more like a Republican now. I think retailers and local police authorities and local enforcement authorities need to start arresting people in stores that commit crimes. I think anyone who threatens an employee for any reason should be arrested. And I think anyone who steals anything should be arrested. Stores have become the Wild West, just like these school board meetings where people with no kids in their school show up and say really hateful things.

Scott Galloway: This was an opportunity to say, "We have a wonderful LGBTQ contingent in our employee workforce. We are thrilled to celebrate them in any way we can. And if you don't like it, don't come into the store. But if you come into the store and you threaten anybody, we're going to arrest you." I think it was an opportunity for them and then it would have gone away. All they have done is alienated a key component of the workforce — not only gay people but people who think of themselves as progressives and want to be on the right side of history. They just missed a big opportunity here.

Kara Swisher: I agree. You compared it to Nike doing the right thing versus Bud Light by the people at Anheuser. Disney did the right thing in terms of this.

Scott Galloway: Also, statistically, most pedophiles are straight. God, stop it. Stop demonizing gay people for a problem that's widespread among the straight community. A terrible problem, actually. I personally believe, and granted it's a big company and there's free speech, if you call a group of people groomers, in my view, that's cause for immediate dismissal. When you accuse a group with no evidence of raping children, there is no worse slander. There's no evidence. What there is evidence of is that the gay community is more likely to be subject of crimes as opposed to the perpetrators.

Scott Galloway: I remember when I was applying to be a big brother when I was younger and I was living in LA. They put you through an interview process, and I get it. I understand they have to be very careful around kids. But basically, the entire vetting process was, "Are you gay? Can we speak to a girlfriend of yours?" What they don't recognize is it is so important that we get men involved in young men's lives. There's absolutely no evidence showing that gay men are any better or any worse at mentoring young men. So just stop it.

Scott Galloway: This notion that somehow being gay makes you more inclined or more prone to criminal activity, much less the most heinous criminal activity. Essentially the Catholic Church and Michael Jackson have fucked it up for all of us. Men are now afraid to get in young men's lives for fear that people will suspect their intentions. So the term groomer really has to be shut down. There are pedophiles. They come from every walk of life. It is hard to predict who they are going to be. Sexual orientation is not a signal of it. It is literally the most slanderous thing you can say about somebody.

Scott Galloway: Reverse engineering all of this to Target. They missed an opportunity. Show me anyone who comes in and yells at an employee about pride. I'll almost guarantee you, they didn't graduate from high school and they have no money. They're slowly but surely being starched from the gene pool. So they're not your core audience. You're not going to lose a lot of money. Maybe some crazy right-wing podcasters will talk about it and call for a boycott. But guess what? That group doesn't matter. They don't have any money.

Kara Swisher: Yep. The majority of pedophiles and child sex offenders are heterosexual. Study after study after study, it represents the population. It just does. It's repulsive.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, I would quit. Don't quit until you have another job. You have an obligation to take care of yourself and your family. Don't quit until you have another job. But please don't ever stop saying "anywho." It's the best thing ever.

Kara Swisher: All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, a listener has a challenge for you on your Apple Vision Pro view.

[Ad Break]

Ad Voice: Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

Ad Voice 2: Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn. From talking about sports to discussing the latest movies, everyone is looking for a real connection to the people around them. But it's not just person to person, it's the same connection that's needed in business. And it can be the hardest part about B2B marketing, finding the right people, making the right connections. But instead of spending hours scavenging social media feeds, you can just tap LinkedIn ads to reach the right professionals. According to LinkedIn, they have grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, making it stand apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company roles, seniority skills, and company revenue, giving you all the professionals you need to reach in one place. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you $100 credit on your next campaign so you can try it for yourself. Just go to linkedin.com slash pivot pod. That's linkedin.com slash pivot pod. Terms and conditions apply. Only on LinkedIn ads.

[End of Ad Break]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with more listener mail. Let's read another one. It comes from Brandon on Twitter.

Kara Swisher: [Reading] Scott and Kara, ooh, you were first. How do you balance being present with your kids and your other responsibilities without feeling guilty? My kids are 12 and 15. Oh. Wow.

Kara Swisher: Scott, you've been spending, I've been spending a ton of time with my kids. I'll start. I try to, when they call, I pick up when I'm doing work. I try to carve out time for them. I spent some time recently with my second son, Alex, who's 18 in San Francisco, just me and him. I did the same thing with Louis, my oldest son, before he goes off. I take Clara alone some of the time so she has just focused on her. I don't think you should feel guilty about working. I just think you're going to feel guilty no matter what you do. But I definitely try to find moments throughout the day for each kid in some fashion. I don't feel that guilty in general because I think I do communicate with them all quite a bit. What about you, Scott?

Scott Galloway: I think a lot about this. And this will trigger some people, but I think that men should initially, or at least, I think a good place to start is to take economic responsibility for being a provider for your family. Sometimes that means getting out of the way or being more supportive of your partner who's better at that whole money thing. One plus one can equal three. But I think a good place to start as a man is to assume that you are going to take economic responsibility for the household. There's no getting around it. It involves trade-offs and sacrifices. I barely saw my kids under the age of five. The reason why I can spend a lot of time with them now is because I made those sacrifices. Everything is a trade-off. You can have it all, but you can't have it all at once.

Scott Galloway: I think a lot about this in the sense that I spend a lot of time with my kids because I'm at that stage right now where I'm panicked about losing them. So I have the resources and the flexibility to spend a lot of time with them. But something I struggle with is being present. I'm in my head a lot and I'm not there. Even though I'm there physically, I'm not there a lot.

Scott Galloway: Let me just say, there's no such thing as quality time. Quality time was a term invented by rich white guys who spend no time with their kids and want to pretend they're good fathers because they spend quality time with them. There's no such thing because the quality moments with your kids will come randomly. You'll be in a car and they'll say something and you have a moment with that child. You can't force these things. You can't predict them.

Scott Galloway: On a much more meta level, and I've been thinking about this a lot, I worry — and this is something we all have to deal with as successful people or as people who struggle with anxiety or depression. I struggle with anxiety and depression, and that's because I'm in the past too much. I don't forgive myself. I don't forgive other people. I dwell too much on things, and it attacks my soul. I also spend too much time in the future because I am successful, and part of being successful is constantly trading off the present for the future. I am always working. I am always thinking about work. I am always planning ahead. I am always sending emails to my team. "Did you think about this? Did you do this?"

Scott Galloway: The reality is my living in the past and my planning for the future narrows, shrinks, erodes the present for me. The fear for all of us is we get to the end of our life and you look back and think, "Oh my God, what a life of blessing. What a life of achievement. What a life of love. But I was never really there." That's the fear.

Scott Galloway: What I try to do, and I tell every person that struggles with any sort of anxiety or mental illness or is successful, you got to crowd the present. You got to find time to stop thinking about the past, forgive yourself, forgive others. You got to stop thinking about more money and you got to figure out a way to extend your arms and just be there in the present because it's literally all we have. It's all we have is the present.

Kara Swisher: I don't think about the past very much. When it's done, it's done. I'm like a "next" kind of person. I wasn't talking about quality time. I'm talking about focus time because if you have a lot of kids or more than one, they're all competing for attention and noise at a dinner table. It's very hard. The other day, Alex was talking about something and then Louie made a point and then Clara wanted attention. So you're undercutting all of them. I'm talking about spending time individually with them is always a really good time. It doesn't have to have great import. It's just to take a little bit of time so you can focus on each other. You're absolutely focusing because there's so many distractions, whether it's Twitter or Threads or X, whatever it's called now, or some movie or some news. I'm a news junkie. My kids are also news junkies, my older kids.

Kara Swisher: So you're right, being present. But you don't have to stare deeply into someone's eyes to be present. You don't have to force yourself because people's attention span is low.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's just even just turning off your phone.

Kara Swisher: Yes. Putting your phone upside down on a table is what I do because I know I have a problem. But I see what you mean about you being present. Sometimes I feel that with you. Sometimes you're sort of somewhere else. You're wandering.

Scott Galloway: I'm sorry. What did you say?

Kara Swisher: Sometimes with you, you do that.

Scott Galloway: I know that I'm thinking of it. That was a joke, Kara.

Kara Swisher: I'm sorry. What did you say?

Scott Galloway: See, now you're doing it to me.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, you do that sometimes. You're often somewhere else.

Scott Galloway: I'm burying my head.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, you are. I don't find it rude, though, but it's definitely a quality. A lot of people have it. It's easy to do that these days. I think we're also getting bred that way in a lot of ways, given all the hair trigger. Anyway, I would say being in the present is an excellent piece of advice from Scott. It's hard and you have to really practice it, really, given this day.

Kara Swisher: Okay, this one came in from a listener via email. Let's read.

Kara Swisher: [Reading] Hi, Kara and Scott. I'm a technology and data lawyer in D.C. and an avid listener to your show. My husband and I are in our 30s. We have no kids, and aside from our mortgage, we paid off all our major outstanding debts. We generally feel like we're on the right track, except for one big looming specter. We know that our parents, like a lot of boomers, do not have enough money saved for retirement and that caring for them will largely fall to us in the very near future. Do you have any tips for providing for parents while achieving our own financial goals? Our parents are incredible humans and we feel like they deserve to have a nice life. It hurts to think of them having to scrape by after all they did for us. Thanks.

Kara Swisher: That is a good question. I think about this all the time and you do right now, Scott. I know you're in LA. You have money to deal with this and I do too, not as much as you, but this is a looming specter trying to figure it out because this is a big deal for a lot of people. I don't know if there's an answer. Scott, why don't you go first and I'll think about it a little bit more.

Scott Galloway: It's a tough one. People don't like to talk about actual money. I think that's a certain dictum in our society such that people don't know how much other people make. Corporations do it to create asymmetry of information, which benefits them. Never talk about your salary and you're not supposed to talk about money. I think that's been promoted by people who have money so you don't know how much they have and how unfair our economy is sometimes.

Scott Galloway: Anyways, my point is I'm about to share my numbers. My dad lives in a nice assisted living facility. It's not anything super luxurious. He's been falling. He fell this weekend. So now we not only have a woman who spends time with him during the day who's wonderful, now I have to have someone there at night. I will spend $270,000 this year on my dad's care. That is about $450,000 pre-tax. So me trying to take care of my dad is a half a million dollars in salary a year. How many people in America can do that? Very, very few.

Scott Galloway: What happens is the parents end up living with the family and it's almost always that the woman in the household becomes the primary caregiver, taking care of kids and aging parents. Old people are living much longer and sometimes that quality of life isn't extended as great as the extension in their lifespan. This is a huge issue.

Scott Galloway: My only solution here is that the government, I think we need to look at non-traditional ideas. It would cost $40 billion a year to give everybody who's born $7,000. I would treat them like infants and say, "We're going to put the $7,000 in a variety of index funds and you get it when you're 65." By the time they're 65, they would have over a million dollars. But this is a big problem for our society because a lot of boomers haven't saved enough money and they become liabilities not only on the kids, but on the government. They're living much longer than they anticipated. So we need to look at non-traditional forms of financing their retirements because it's a huge strain on families.

Kara Swisher: It is. My dad died when he was 34. It would have been amazing if he could have lived. But even having one parent, and your mom is no longer living, is hard. My mom escaped assisted living, but it was very expensive. It was not just expensive in terms of money, but also time and worry and trying to figure it out. Especially when you're dealing with some older people who are obstreperous about the lack of control, which I get completely. So it's an emotional thing. It's difficult. She has three kids and we all struggle with it together, right?

Kara Swisher: It's expensive. We hope she doesn't run out of money. She has some money, she has over the course of her life. But it's definitely... without money, it makes it easier. It doesn't make it easy. But without money? Oh my God. Or with limited funds. It's just... there's nothing. I have a friend who's always saying, "America..." because the way they do it in other countries, there's bigger groups of community and larger families that stay in the same place. Even my grandmother had that. She had all her family, all her sisters. She had seven or nine brothers and sisters, I think it was nine, in the same town. She ended up being the last person to die of that era, which was harder. But she had a big family around her.

Kara Swisher: You're going to have to pay. Our country does not care about old people or young or babies, in terms of our education of everybody. So you're going to have to pay. Seniors get a lot in the form of Social Security, but the last 10 years get so expensive because they just need a lot of care. People are living longer. This is a debate going on within the Republican Party of suddenly not paying younger people, not guaranteeing them Social Security, but continuing to pay the old people so you can get the votes. It's just a really... right now, go look at some of the stuff going on around this issue. It's going to run out of money in 10 years or something like that. 40% of all government spending goes to people over the age of 65, and it's going to go over 50% in about 20 years. It's unsustainable.

Scott Galloway: I literally think for $40 billion a year, you give every baby $7,000. They can't touch it until they're 65, because a lot of this does come down to money. It would actually be more than a million, but it's going to get worse. With lower birth rates, you're just going to have fewer young people. There's going to be a lot of only children supporting, trying to figure out how to take care of mom and dad.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's true. That's why I had so many kids. I joke with my kids all the time, but it was totally in the back of my mind: okay, at least one of them. That's why I wanted a girl.

Scott Galloway: I have no idea who's going to take care of me.

Kara Swisher: Nothing to you.

Scott Galloway: You.

Kara Swisher: Oh, your sons will.

Scott Galloway: Oh, come on. I will. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll wheel you around in a wheelchair or everything else.

Kara Swisher: All right, because you know I'm going to live to 112. All right, here's another one. I'll read it. "Scott likes to say that no one will want to wear a product unless it increases their attractiveness to potential mates. In fact, he says that a lot. Apple Vision Pro may look dorky, but does it signal to those around you that you are tech savvy and wealthy? When you're waiting in an airport lounge or a Starbucks and you see someone wearing it, what does that say about that person? They aren't just dorky, but they have a lot of disposable income." — Tom Boardman.

Kara Swisher: They also have no shame. I would totally do that, Tom. Scott, why don't you answer this? Does it not signal they have some dough to spend? If they could sit around with this thing on their face publicly, they don't care?

Scott Galloway: What? No, it says they've given up all hope for a random sexual experience.

Kara Swisher: Oh, God, give me a break.

Scott Galloway: You're going to put on your Apple mixed reality headset as a means of communicating wealth? Yeah. I'll stick with my Panerai and my Range Rover.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, okay.

Scott Galloway: And that gives me a one in a hundred chance of a random sexual encounter.

Kara Swisher: You have a one in none.

Scott Galloway: This thing is literally... I didn't kiss a lot of people as a young man or woman, but I made some money, and now I can afford this thing. This literally will save marriages. There is absolutely no opportunity you will have sex with anyone outside of someone who has agreed to have sex with you once you start putting this thing on your head.

Kara Swisher: Okay. I think it's going to be used in the office. It's not going to be signaling anything out in the wild world. In the office. Tim Cook wouldn't put it on.

Scott Galloway: Okay. He wouldn't get near it.

Kara Swisher: Okay. He wouldn't get near it. Tim Cook, by the way, is a very good-looking guy. He works out a lot. I don't know if he has a partner. He's very private about that stuff. Good for him. I don't believe he does. He wouldn't get near the thing.

Scott Galloway: He wouldn't get near it.

Kara Swisher: Okay. All right. Next time I go to your apartment, I'm going to get my hands on one. I'm going to wander around your apartment and talk to you the whole time.

Scott Galloway: That's an image.

Kara Swisher: It's going to be great.

Scott Galloway: It's going to be great. We're going to have so much fun.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Well, and I'll turn on my LaserDisc.

Scott Galloway: Right. Exactly.

Kara Swisher: Scott, one more quick break. When we come back, a listener wants to know about your hair.

Ad Voice: Interesting. Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. A front payment of $45 for three month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

Ad Voice 2: Tron Ares has arrived. I would like you to meet Ares, the ultimate AI soldier. He is biblically strong and supremely intelligent. You think you're in control of this? You're not. On October 10th. What are you? My world is coming to destroy yours, but I can help you. The war for our world begins in IMAX. Tron Aries, rated PG-13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters October 10th. Get tickets now.

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, let's listen to another one.

Listener: Hi, Kara and Scott. Steve from Madison, Wisconsin. I'm a high school AP statistics teacher with a longstanding passion for public education. In my over 35 years of teaching, I've noticed a concerning trend, which maybe you can help me with. The trend is, number one, fewer students seem to be considering teaching as a profession. At the beginning of my career, I'd ask at the end of the year how many kids want to become teachers, and I would have a third of them raise their hand. None of them are now. And many of my colleagues are struggling to make ends meet. They have second and third jobs just to make ends meet. My question is, what do you see the future of public education given these challenges? And how do you think we address the growing disinterest in teaching as a career choice, both financially and professionally? As a fourth generation teacher, I thrive for this education and passionate about it. I just want to know your thoughts and potential solutions on these issues. Thank you.

Kara Swisher: Thank you. Nice, Steve from Madison, Wisconsin. I just want to say, my aunt was a fourth grade school teacher, retired since, always had a second job, by the way, to make more money. My sister-in-law is a very committed teacher here in California in a public school. She's in the elementary area. I have to say it's a passion for my sister-in-law, for sure. I've talked to her about her job, not for financially. I think that's one of the things. It is frightening. It's not just with teachers. There's been a spate of articles about policemen that... it usually was often a family thing or the military, also a family thing, not necessarily anymore. People are encouraging them not to go into it. I bet a lot of teachers are doing that. My niece is a teacher too, also passionate about it. I don't think she's thinking about money-making as a career choice in that regard. So I don't know what to say. You can't say just be passionate. I think they should pay teachers more and they should not make them responsible for every mental health problem our kids are undergoing. They are so... both of them are committed to their jobs and they love their jobs more than most people. Scott, any thoughts?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I think something needs to happen on a federal level. People in the armed services don't make a lot of money, but they get really strong benefits. They usually get their housing paid for, they work 20 years and they get a decent pension. They get access to the store on base that's subsidized. They get real federally subsidized benefits. They get veterans benefits. I think we need some sort of program similar for primary and high school teachers. Because as much as we talk about paying them more, whenever you call someone a hero, it means that we think they're fucking idiots from an economic standpoint and we don't pay them. When you're making a decent living, you don't need to call someone a hero.

Kara Swisher: Scott, you're my hero.

Scott Galloway: Thanks for saying that. I make as much as you.

Kara Swisher: I think.

Scott Galloway: Anyways, there needs to be some sort of federal program, whether it's student loan forgiveness, access to federally backed mortgages at a lower interest rate, matching contributions to retirement, because on a local level, it just ends up that the supply and demand of teaching ends up with underpaid teachers. The issue I've been thinking a lot about, because I'm writing a book on masculinity, is the single point of failure you can point to when men come off the tracks is a lack of a male role model. And where we have almost no male role models is in our education system. 80% of elementary school teachers are women and 70% of high school teachers. And it results in fewer and fewer people championing and taking an interest in a young boy's life, because you're going to naturally champion and develop reward behaviors that you see in yourself. So you have this whole generation of young men coming of age in America who, between the second highest rate of single parent households in the world and no male teachers or a few... there are some men who literally come into this world having never had a male role model. So one, federally subsidized programs that raise the compensation and benefits for all teachers in public schools. And two, we need to recruit more male teachers into elementary and high school educational programs.

Kara Swisher: I would agree with that. My older sons and my younger kids now have had a lot of both female and male teachers that they've been lucky to have. That's been a real boon. There was one teacher that both Alex and Louie had that really had a significant... a male teacher, a science teacher, that had a significant impact on them, although they've had great teachers of both genders. I think you're right. You can't call them heroes, just pay them better, because there is an element of certain jobs that people do have a passion for and they love it. I think both my niece and my sister-in-law just love their jobs. You can feel it off them. And I think if they just got paid a little more and got a little bit of the... I think mental health issues, every teacher I talked to said that's the thing that really has been a real burden. I think police officers have the same issue, just getting handed a bag of trouble that they're not necessarily qualified for, but it just adds to making learning as easy as possible for kids and having roles they didn't expect. They're very emotionally committed. Teachers changed my life. They changed yours. My fourth grade teacher, I'm sure she's dead now, her name is Mrs. Forsinian, she changed my life. So did my seventh grade teacher, Mrs. Gilbert, my English teacher. I absolutely point to them as people who changed my life in terms of just who I am today. I would say you have the same thing. Call out your teacher. Who was it?

Scott Galloway: Oh, Mrs. Banta, Mrs. Heil, Mrs. Golding, my English teacher in 11th grade. I had a lot of people. I had a baseball coach who was really good to me. Perry Jones, my history teacher. He opened my eyes. In college, I had a Father Chiafi taught existentialism of all things, changed my life completely.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. The question is, what do we do about it now? And it just isn't working. The supply-demand dynamics of teaching are just not working for teachers. So similar to the military, we just need some federally subsidized programs to make it more attractive.

Scott Galloway: And again, I'd say the same thing with police and nurses and things like that.

Kara Swisher: They make good money, though. Police and nurses actually make pretty good money.

Scott Galloway: They do.

Kara Swisher: But I'm talking about families encouraging people to go in the military, etc. Here's another that came in via email. I'll read it because we've been short on dad jokes lately.

Scott Galloway: Oh, my God. So many dad jokes.

Kara Swisher: This is one of them. "I sincerely wish I had a unique insight, a probing question or enlightened commentary I could share that would elevate the level of discourse on your terrific show. Unfortunately, I have none. I do, however, have an addition to Scott's collection of dick jokes."

Scott Galloway: Oh, thanks so much.

Kara Swisher: "Did you hear John Wayne Bobbitt changed his name? To what, you ask. Les Johnson. You're welcome and sorry. Keep up the good work, Steve."

Scott Galloway: That's good.

Kara Swisher: Scott, you're datacalizing our listeners. That's a word that I just made up.

Scott Galloway: That guy's my brother in arms. But I do want to ask him a question. Why couldn't Lorena Bobbitt be a successful film director? Why? Every time she yelled, "cut," the male actors fled the set.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's good.

Scott Galloway: You know, Lorena Bobbitt, this is tragically... it's tragic. You know, she died in a car accident. Apparently some dick cut her off.

Kara Swisher: Oh, no. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I thought that was real for a second. I hate you.

Scott Galloway: You know, they both were. But she literally... it's a true story. She served in the same prison as Jeffrey Dahmer, where he said to her, "Are you going to eat that?"

Kara Swisher: OK, I could do this all day. Why do you have so many Lorena Bobbitt jokes? For those who don't know, this is a woman who cut off her husband's penis for cheating on her and then threw it out the window. And then they got it and they put it back on.

Scott Galloway: Thank you. And men still cheat. Even knowing that's a possibility, men still cheat.

Kara Swisher: And they sewed it back on.

Scott Galloway: They sewed it back on. That's the good news.

Kara Swisher: Oh, it's not good news. None of this story. We're moving on from Lorena Bobbitt jokes. All right. Steve, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Scott Galloway: Did you hear the next person that tried to do this didn't actually kill her husband, but nonetheless, she was charged with a Mr. Wiener.

Kara Swisher: Okay. All right. That's the last one you get, Scott. And Steve, you need to go away. You're a shameful pair. Anyway. Okay, last one. I'll read it. "I thought I'd ask you two personal questions because I noticed for both of you, that's when you get your guests a little off kilter and then get the conversation after to go somewhere interesting."

Scott Galloway: Oh, we're not interesting otherwise.

Kara Swisher: "Interesting. Kara, you are famously cool and focused in your interviews. When was the last time you blew your top and lost cool professionally?"

Kara Swisher: I just don't. I am Chris Hemsworth in Extraction. Give me a fucking break. I don't. I can't think of one time where I lost my cool in a professional setting. Maybe the Paltrow interview, I got annoyed at her, but I think that worked well for the interview. I knew what I was doing. I haven't lost my cool professionally in an interview.

Kara Swisher: "When have you lost your cool personally?"

Kara Swisher: All the time with you.

Scott Galloway: Well, here, I get mad at you, I guess.

Kara Swisher: But that's good for us. That's a good thing. That's not true at all. I don't lose my cool that much. Sometimes, unfortunately, with my kids every now and then, I get frustrated. And I have dialed that back rather significantly. I was talking to Louie about that. I got sort of irritated at Clara for something, and he's like, "Don't yell." And I'm like, "Oh, you're right," because I yelled too much at you when you were a kid. But I've dialed it back. So I say I haven't. I'm sorry. Sorry, Scott. I can't think of one. I don't think I have. Can you think of one?

Scott Galloway: I don't think I've ever...

Kara Swisher: When you've lost your cool? Professionally?

Scott Galloway: No.

Kara Swisher: No, you're pretty... you're pretty much ice man.

Scott Galloway: I am Chris Hemsworth in Extraction.

Kara Swisher: I do the job. All right, Scott, this is the same letter. "Scott, speaking of top, Scott, when was the last year of good hair? Love the show, RR."

Scott Galloway: Go ahead. I remember the moment in my first year of business school. I was 26. I had a ponytail. I used to ride a skateboard around.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: Full head of hair. Granted, it's a low bar. But at one point, my best features were my hair and my abs. And I've lost both those things. But I remember reading my finance book and thinking, "I don't remember underlining this chapter." I'm like, "Oh my God, it's my hair." And I started losing my hair so fast.

Kara Swisher: What was it? Do you know why it just came out?

Scott Galloway: It's called genetics.

Kara Swisher: Okay. All right.

Scott Galloway: Okay. Up until like the age of 20, like 19-20, I was really unattractive. I joined crew. I took Accutane. I got very big and muscular and my skin cleared up. And all of a sudden, my world changed. So 21. So from like 19 to 25, I was modestly attractive, see above 19 to 25. And then I started losing my hair. And one of the nicest things that ever happened to me was I shaved my head. And it just made everything so much easier and so much more efficient.

Kara Swisher: What was that moment? Let's have that moment. Let's have the Scott. Let's go back in history. What was that moment when you shaved? What made the decision to do it? And then what was that like? Give us a picture.

Scott Galloway: I was with a girlfriend in Hawaii. And she actually bought me a clipper and she shaved my head. And it was actually a very kind of central erotic moment for me. And I've never had hair since.

Kara Swisher: Why did you... why there? Because she bought you a clipper, really? That's what happened?

Scott Galloway: Well, I think she probably sensed I was anxious. See, here's the thing. There's nothing better than having a full head of hair. That just rocks.

Kara Swisher: I like mine a lot.

Scott Galloway: Having a shaved head is fine. It's actually become sort of in vogue. When I did it, it was considered aggressive. And I'm convinced that I was able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars based on the fact that I had a shaved head because it was unique back in the 90s. Having a shaved head is good. Having a lot of hair is the best. It's the in-between that sucks. It's losing your hair because the reality is you'll be much more focused on it because it represents a loss of youth and vitality. And you can't do anything about it. It's totally uncontrollable. The in-between is the hard part. So what I would say to any man out there that's losing their hair is just shave your head. It's kind of liberating. Go Kojak.

Kara Swisher: There you go. Go full. That's an old reference. Telly Savalas. You have great hair.

Scott Galloway: I do.

Kara Swisher: You have great hair. You know, I was looking at Louie's hair the other day. I'm like, what frigging fantastic hair he has, too. The Swisher ventries, whatever, fantastic hair. Although Jeff and David both have hair loss, I would say, just sort of receding hairlines, which is on the mother's side from what I understand. But yeah, we have good hair. We have good hair people.

Scott Galloway: Only one out of 10 men maintain hair volume their whole life. And the thing to remember about hair, and I say this to a lot of young men, it was yet another thing I was self-conscious about when I started losing my hair, is that the amount of attention you place on your hair loss, it's about 0.1 of that across everyone else. No one notices your hair loss as much as you do.

Kara Swisher: No, that's true.

Scott Galloway: As a man, they're going to notice, first and foremost, if you've got a plan and you're executing against it, they're going to notice your height, the depth of your voice, how broad your shoulders are, and quite frankly, whether or not you're killing it professionally, and your kindness and your intellect. Your hair, they may notice it. It's pretty far down the list. But when you're losing your hair, you think that everyone's just staring at your hairline. And it's not true.

Kara Swisher: You do bald well. Let me just say, you do bald well.

Scott Galloway: Thank you for saying that.

Kara Swisher: Shaved well. I guess shaved, right? Shaved.

Scott Galloway: Anyway.

Kara Swisher: Those are great questions. And now I know more about Scott's hair loss situation and what he did about it. So nice to know that. Send us more. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. Go back on your vacation, whatever you're doing right now, all balled up in a closet, missing me probably is what you're doing in the dark, crying, weeping quietly.

Scott Galloway: The only reason I go away is so people miss me, because you'll have all this fucking woke-stan mediocre guest.

Kara Swisher: But anyways, we're really happy they're here. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jertod, engineer in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mils Levero. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Whatever you feel about your own looks, other people just really don't care. It's about you. It's about your character. It's about your success. We'll see you next time.