The red-hot IPO Market , El Salvador’s Bitcoin Experiment and SCOTT IS BACK!

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and guess who actually came back?

Scott Galloway: And I'm Katie Couric. You wish.

Kara Swisher: Wasn't she good?

Scott Galloway: She was so good.

Kara Swisher: Kara, Kara, I don't want the—I'm not interested in talking about Katie Couric. And not only that, I don't even want to make a big deal about this because I don't like to be the story. For me, it's all about the content. So let's just bust right. Let's not make a big deal out of this.

Kara Swisher: Okay, all right. Let's not. Let's just bust into today's news.

Scott Galloway: Okay, all right. Sounds good. All right, go ahead. Go for it.

Kara Swisher: Just kidding. DJ Ernie, play that shit.

Scott Galloway: Oh, no. Is it a daytime talk show host? Is it someone sleeping with Kellyanne Conway? Is it the host of MSNBC? Is it the future governor of New York? No. It's an angry dysfunctional man with erectile dysfunction. But it's your angry man with erectile dysfunction, ladies and gentlemen. It's you're welcome. You're welcome to my dozens and dozens of fans. It was such a nice August. Hello, hello. I have returned. I'm nervous. Oh my god. So I got literally the scripts of all the stuff your time away. What did you do? What did you do? What were you doing?

Kara Swisher: How was my summer vacation?

Scott Galloway: How was my summer vacation? Yeah, you forgot George Hahn, by the way. You forgot to add George Hahn into that list of people. My lover, my delicious lover. That was a ball game. So, I love George Hahn. By the way, you guys made me almost cry. You said very nice things about me. Anyways, I'm going to get emotional. So, my summer vacation, I went to...

Kara Swisher: Yeah, let's hear about it.

Scott Galloway: I went to Ibiza because I'm in love with someone who is playing chicken with a Delta variant. So we just went there and then I freaked out and stayed in the hotel for a week. But I had a really good time. I went to this really hot club. Yeah. And I went into the men's room and this very nice gentleman offered me something called Fanta Naranja, which I later found out was Molly. And guess what? I found out about Molly. When I take it, Kara, I like me. I like me on Molly. Listen to me. How was your time away? We did miss you. Did you see White Lotus, by the way?

Kara Swisher: No, I didn't. I watched the other one.

Scott Galloway: Oh, it's genius. With Nicole Kidman.

Kara Swisher: I don't want to watch people pooping in suitcases.

Scott Galloway: No, no, no, no. That one, Nine Perfect Strangers, is awful. I love it. Awful. I love it. You're wrong. You were wrong, Melissa McCarthy and Bobby Carter. Murray Bartlett. I would objectify. You are Armand. I would objectify. I think her name is Alexa Daddario. I think she's the most beautiful person in the world.

Kara Swisher: She is beautiful. And she's also a very—she's also, I was shocked what a good actress she is.

Scott Galloway: She's a terrific actress, yeah. And that guy Murray Bartlett, you know he was a daytime soap actor and he is wonderful. Really. And I just want to put it out there, if he's ever in New York and wants to roll with a dog, I would love to roll. All right, Murray. That guy is a gift. He was—you gotta watch my—are you gonna say what you actually did? What did you do? People want to know. People were asking me. I literally this morning I was taking Claire to school, it's her first week of school, and I was—this guy jogged past me, he stopped, he took out his earphones, and he's a government employee and I'm not going to identify his agency but it's an important one to tech, and he's like, "Where's Scott?" And I was like, okay, that's right. I said I'm going to do a podcast with him right now. So then I went and I spent three weeks on a sandbar in the Atlantic called Nantucket. I've decided to really lean into my white privilege. Wow. So anyways, I was in Nantucket. And I like to write when I take time off. So I wrote—

Kara Swisher: So did you write a book?

Scott Galloway: I wrote most of one, yeah. But I'm trying to figure out if it's going to be a book or if I'm going to turn it into—

Kara Swisher: What's it called? My time with Kara? My deep love?

Scott Galloway: The Algebra of Wealth. I'm trying to figure out a way to help young people establish financial security.

Kara Swisher: Why don't you make it the Calculus of Wealth? Why don't you change the math? The geometry.

Scott Galloway: You know, it's never good enough for you. It isn't. It isn't. It's never good enough for you. But did you miss the show? I think you missed the show. You were tweeting and everything else, you're very aware of my other relationships while you were away. Yeah. And I missed you. Tell me, who did you like for me? Who did you like?

Kara Swisher: I like them all. I like them all. I thought they were great. The show will have numbers, so we'll know which ones did better than the others. I'm biased. I have a real affection for Stephanie Ruhle and Andrew Ross Sorkin. I would consider them both friends. I really thought the learning for me was with George Conway and Katie Kirk because I think that stereotypes are so dangerous. I think I have a cartoon of what both those people should be like. And I think George Conway is a great legal mind. I really enjoyed listening to him. And I think Katie Kirk is much more substantive than I think I wanted to think she was, because my impression of her was just a daytime talk show host. I just don't know her very well.

Scott Galloway: She said, "I'm fucking Katie Kirk." Yeah. And I enjoyed listening to her curse. That was enjoyable. I thought she was really interesting. I love George Hahn. I think he's got a great voice. That was a real gay show. I think he could be a successful podcaster if he put his mind to it. I just like the way he thinks. He's both handsome and has a handsome voice. I'm trying to think. Who else did you have on? Preet, your boyfriend. Look, next governor of New York. Every time he talks, you just feel safer.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, we'll have the governor more. You just want that guy to raise you, right?

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Everything's going to be all right when you get a guy's voice. We'll go visit him in Albany, won't we? We'll kind of try to make a controversy up there for him. There you go. Anyway, most of all, we missed you. We really did.

Kara Swisher: Thank you. We held our numbers, apparently.

Scott Galloway: Well, hold on. Which one did you enjoy the most?

Kara Swisher: I liked them all.

Scott Galloway: Go out on a limb here.

Kara Swisher: I thought they were all—

Scott Galloway: No, I won't. Come on.

Kara Swisher: No, all of them. I'm telling you. I thought they were all—

Scott Galloway: Who shocked you to the upside?

Kara Swisher: I liked them all. I'm telling you. I liked them all.

Scott Galloway: Well, obviously, George Hahn was fun because it was super gay. So I liked to enjoy that a lot. And I thought Katie was great, too.

Kara Swisher: I didn't think that was super gay. It was super profane. It wasn't super gay.

Scott Galloway: There was a lot of gay in there. You didn't understand it, but it was super gay. Yeah. It was real gay.

Kara Swisher: Over my head. That was comfy. Yeah, it's over here. Over my head.

Scott Galloway: We've got a couple of topics for banter today. So starting with the first one, United Airlines is something we talked about while we were away. I did an interview once with the head of one of the big airlines, American Airlines, who is not vaccinating its employees and requiring vaccinations. But United says more than half of its unvaccinated employees had gotten their COVID shots since the airline made vaccines mandatory. They've got just two weeks, I guess, till September 27th to get those COVID vaccines. So what do you think? What do you think about this, Scott? While you were away, you were saying you were worried about the Delta variant while you were traveling.

Scott Galloway: Well, we did say about eight weeks ago that one of our predictions was that vaccine mandates from the corporate world were coming. And people said, "I can't do that. It's illegal." It's absolutely happening. And unfortunately, everyone's mad at these mentally ill people showing up at school board meetings. And I understand that. Everyone's mad at Facebook and other media companies for spreading misinformation. People are mad at podcast hosts who've been dewormed. But the thing that trumps all of them—and this just so I'm an equal opportunity hater here—I think Biden's shown a tremendous lack of leadership. We need to ask Americans—the government is here to be our connective tissue. And the government embraces something called science. And they have resources.

Kara Swisher: Wait a minute. Why is Biden in the fault? He's been very strongly pushing this.

Scott Galloway: We need much hardship. You want to get on a plane? You want to cash your Social Security or Medicare unemployment check? Fine. We've decided. We've decided. You want to show up to a public school? You want to—I'm not doing that. For God's sakes. When I go to Africa, I have to take tons of vaccines.

Kara Swisher: But a lot of government mandates have not worked. They haven't gone through in California even. These requirements have died in local and state legislatures. I just don't buy it. I think the government, if they wanted, could find a lot of ways, both carrots and sticks, to get people. I don't think they can't. Because here's the thing. It would be interesting to have Preet or one of the 7 million lawyers we have on the show. But here's the thing. I think that the people that get the news are the whack jobs who don't want to get the vaccine. You're like, "Well, it's an experiment on it." Okay. That's not the majority of the people who haven't gotten a vaccination. The majority of the people who haven't gotten a vaccination are like the majority of people who don't vote. They're just sort of indifferent. They're just sort of lazy. They're not against it. They're not for it. They're just like, "You know what? I'm not in a hurry." It's like, I'm indifferent against my vasectomy. I've had a plan for six months and I haven't gotten it because I'm not super excited to go have a laser shot into Big Ed and the Twins.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, yeah. People—there are 90 million Americans who haven't gotten the vaccine who are eligible. And I bet about 80 of them probably would. Probably would with the nudge.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, they're going to. Yes, if they're nudged. Yeah, I agree. I think the government is going to do it. What do you think? What are your thoughts?

Scott Galloway: I don't think the government is going to do it. I think everywhere it's failed, this idea of state vaccine mandates. As they move closer to them, they never get there. I think it's companies that are going to say, "You know what? We're going to protect our employees and you can't come to work." I think United is handling it just right. And I think they're sort of pushing on people who use the religious exemption. Like, "Okay, then you have to go on unpaid leave. You have to pay for—this is what it costs." Putting a cost on top of it by companies, I think, is the way to go. I think that's the way to go.

Kara Swisher: Was it Delta doing that, saying that if you don't get a vaccine?

Scott Galloway: No, that's United. Just United.

Kara Swisher: United. No, no, but one's increasing their health care costs. Yes, one's increasing their health care costs. So I think it should just be mandated. I'm not flying any other airline. When I was interviewing the head of American, I'm like, "I'm a flying American. You're not mandating. I'm not getting on it with your employees coughing on me. No way. I'm only flying United." And that's not my favorite. I like JetBlue better. But whoever has vaccine mandates, I'm going to their stores. I'm going to their things like that. And that's just the way it is. Okay, let's increment. How can we not have vaccine mandates? I saw the head of the teachers union saying she's sympathetic to mandates.

Scott Galloway: No, no, no. All right. Well, then I interviewed her. No, they're for them. They're for them. They're for mandates.

Kara Swisher: Well, they haven't done it. They have. Okay, they're—well, they can't compel people to do it. They don't have a rule. The school systems have to do it. They can't. They're for it. Well, they can't make their teachers do it. The unions cannot make their teachers do it. They cannot. There is no compelling way to do it. School districts can. School districts can. How do health care numbers go to hospitals? But then you have those wacky frigging meetings with the crazy people showing up.

Scott Galloway: Well, first of all, I think the first question for everyone that shows up at school meeting is, do you actually have a child in this school district? Or are you just here to show us different stages of mental illness?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's really quite crazy. But they show up at lots of—listen, school meetings have been wacky for decades. Hospital workers? Have you seen these TikTok videos of nurses saying, "We've been thrown out like garbage"? Like, you should be thrown out like garbage. You're practicing science. You don't believe it.

Scott Galloway: I'll tell you who's my favorite, Dr. Jeffrey Swisher. He talked about that, about health tech people.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my. I'm so embarrassed. I forgot. He brought medicine, which I love, and humanity together. And also the person on your show, the journalist talking about Theranos. That was fascinating. That was my favorite episode.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, that was great. D-Swish. Yes, John is doing the Theranos thing, which starts this week. We will talk about it next week when the trial starts. Let me get to another thing. The government of El Salvador purchased 400 Bitcoin one day after it became official currency in the nation. That's nearly $21 million at the time of purchase. So the president's all into the Bitcoin. What's going on? He wants to be the Bitcoin country. So is everyone moving to El Salvador? I think it's actually really big for Bitcoin. And there were a lot of stories about the hiccups in the rollout. But I would argue there was less hiccups in the rollout than the rollout of Obamacare or Windows 8, I think a Bloomberg article pointed out. But the remittance—it could reduce substantially commissions around remittance. The GDP of Italy is transferred from in between the Americas from workers back to residents back in countries such as El Salvador, which is the poorest country in Central America. And it's just great for Bitcoin. It's an interesting gambit for them.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it is really interesting. But people like Bitcoin for different reasons. Investors like it for the volatility. Some people like it for the technology. And then that's why people are worried. They're worried about the instability of it. But ATMs that convert to Bitcoin, Starbucks and McDonald's taking it, it crashed on Tuesday. But I actually would argue it's probably a buying opportunity.

Scott Galloway: I think it's fantastic for Bitcoin to have a sovereign nation saying this is our new default currency. Who the big loser is existentially through all of this is that if the USD gets replaced as the default currency, we're going to lose one of the most powerful armies in the world. And that is our ability to attract foreign influence. I mean, all of the Bitcoin people say no. It's a long time. Right now, the U.S. dollar is the currency of the world. Adopting it as a legal currency, I think it's a big deal. What do you think?

Kara Swisher: I think it's a small country. It's a great way to sort of involve them in some sort of economic resurgence for them. I think it's a good idea. You think of countries that have done this, like Switzerland becoming the banking capital—a small country taking some financial risk to do so. I think it's a really interesting thing. I would love to talk to the president when he's doing this. I think one of the issues is the avoidance of taxes, obviously, and then people moving there, becoming like a Monaco. There's certain countries that do, like Ireland. There's a different country, usually small ones. It's interesting to try these new fresh things. I think what's interesting is the SEC at the same time—when we had the head Preet is going to be interviewing the head of the SEC Gary Gensler—threatened to sue Coinbase over its crypto lending program. So they've been fighting and the SEC is trying to sort this out. And that's really where I think the trouble is going to be, is how the government responds. Shares in Coinbase fell on Wednesday following the news about that. But it's a really interesting time. And the question is, what will the SEC and other government agencies do around the Treasury Department and other governments around the world about Bitcoin? Like, how do they engage with it? But you've always said they're about to show up. They're about to show up with a big stick.

Scott Galloway: I think they are. Yeah. I don't know if it's a stick. I think they've got to have a very sophisticated look at this because it's a trend that's sort of like being against the Internet, right? It seems like this is the future. But there's all kinds of problems of people avoiding taxes, hiding the dark stuff that's around any financial instrument over the many years. So I do think El Salvador doing it is interesting. It's prone to possible fraud. It's prone to problems, I guess, because these countries sort of are open armed. I do think a country that is not necessarily as easy to roll over is probably the best place for a lot of this stuff to happen, which would be the United States. The United States and Europe and other countries have got to comment on this and regulate it in some fashion. So I agree with you.

Kara Swisher: So it does say on your tax form, have you purchased or made any capital gains from cryptocurrency? And there's also—have you? In addition to playing defense—

Scott Galloway: Oh, wait. You're buying tools, right? You're buying tools. I'm a no-coiner. I don't understand it. But I've invested in a company called Ledger. I'm like, I want exposure to it, so I'm in the picks and the shovels. So I'm in the premier cold hardware storage wallet that has like supposedly 14% of all crypto is on these devices. Anyways, because people don't want anything hot or connected that can be hacked. And the company is doing incredibly well. Anyways, in addition to playing defense around regulation, if I were advising the government, and I might be, I would play offense.

Kara Swisher: Are you and Janet Yellen hanging out secretly? Was she in Ibiza?

Scott Galloway: Hello, Berkeley professor. Hello, making us proud every day. Making us proud every day. She's a gangster. I absolutely love. Oh, by the way, who is also the chief economic advisor in the Clinton administration? Dean of the Haas School, Laura D'Andrea Tyson. We produce not only gangsters, but gangsters who have ovaries. That's what Berkeley is. Hi. Hi. Anyways.

Kara Swisher: All right. Okay. Anyways. Where were we? Where am I? Oh, I was over here. Katie Couric. No. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I'm fucking Katie Couric. That was my favorite line of the entire time.

Scott Galloway: I think the U.S. should play offense. I think the U.S. should introduce a stablecoin, a digital currency, and just basically put these guys out of it. I think they should compete these guys away.

Kara Swisher: Interesting.

Scott Galloway: If you think that El Salvador made news when it took some ATMs and made it legal tender, what happens when we have the Eagle Coin, which is backed by the full faith and government of the greatest experiment in the history of mankind, and that is U.S. government? Eagle Coin. That was an idea.

Kara Swisher: I mean, first off, I thought it was a terrible move strategically for the CEO of Coinbase to go on a rant against the SEC. I just don't think that was smart. I don't think—I'm like, boss, you're not Tim Cook. And Gary Gensler, I get the feeling this guy came to play. I would not want to fuck with this guy. I would not want to antagonize him. But also, it's a critically important time to cooperate with the government on this. I think we should go into—I think we should have the Eagle Coin and say, "All right, playtime's over, guys. Digital currency, thanks for the innovation. But we're going to have an incredibly powerful, stable company, great technology." And I think it would be good for our brand.

Scott Galloway: They would like to avoid regulation. They're not going to avoid regulation. This group of people, it's like the early internet. They were like this too. Too bad. Sorry, boys. There's always the same thing, whether it was oil or minerals. These nascent emerging industries like to think that they're above regulations.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Oh, we're innovators. We shouldn't—you shouldn't hold us back. And then ultimately—

Scott Galloway: Yeah, it's a particular strain with the Bitcoin people. It's all linked together. It's all libertarian.

Kara Swisher: Yes, exactly. But they're going to be regulated. All right, Scott, we're going to move on to our big story. The IPO market is red hot this year. 2021 is the busiest year for IPOs since 2000. That's 21 years. The U.S. has seen over 250 companies IPO already, and more than 100 companies are expected to follow before January. That's not counting SPACs. There have been more than 400 this year compared to less than 300 last year. IPOs are expected but not confirmed from Reddit, Discord, which I think would be really interesting, and Instacart. So what's the deal? And obviously Robinhood went public. You're one of our viewers and my least favorite companies. But talk about this. Do a little Scottness of it. You're a little Professor Galloway. By the way, you're teaching, right? Again, are you back to teaching?

Scott Galloway: I'm teaching at Section 4. I'm not teaching at Stern this semester. I'll teach in the spring.

Kara Swisher: All right, okay.

Scott Galloway: So I'm not sure I have a ton of insight here. If you look at the IPO market, the number of publicly traded companies has actually, I think, been cut in half the last 30 years because of mergers and increased regulation. And so we're sort of just catching up. And then you've got to sort of parse it. There's some nuance here. The SPAC market has gotten kicked in the nuts. Only two SPACs got out in July. And over half of SPACs are 50% or more off of their highs. So a lot of the air is coming out of SPACs. There's some great companies going public. The markets are still incredibly strong. Where I think the real activity is, is in the private markets. Last quarter, we minted more unicorns than we have in history. We had, I think, 120 new billion-dollar-plus companies emerged in Q2 of 2021, which is a new record.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, the private markets, I think, are really benefiting from these incredible valuations.

Scott Galloway: So, for example, Robinhood goes out at a crazy valuation and then goes up. And so that excites the entire fintech market. By the way, the sector that's producing more unicorns than any other sector is, in fact, fintech. And when you think about it, it's just so obvious. We were talking about Bitcoin in El Salvador. I had dinner last night with the CEO of a company called Ualá, which is—his name is Pierpaolo. Yeah, Ualá. I believe it's U-A-L-A. 25% of people under the age of 30 in Argentina have this digital wallet called Ualá. It's basically a digital bank. And the unbanked—there's like 50 million unbanked people in Mexico. And you talk about remittance payments. And so everyone's trying to become the operating system of different parts of our life. And this category is so exciting because it's the classic innovator's dilemma where the operating system for J.P. Morgan is a ready teller and a bank branch, which are expensive and outdated. That's not how people want to interface with their digital financial lives right now. So the fintech community is such an exciting place to be right now. And a lot of these IPOs, the really crazy ones, and a lot of these private markets are really about fintech. But in some, I think the SPAC market is already starting to feel some pain because some of these companies you are really reaching deep into the barrel around.

Kara Swisher: Which one? Give me a good example.

Scott Galloway: Oh, gosh. I don't know. Virgin Galactic? Right. Yeah. You know, Vice didn't do theirs, but the Vices fell apart, as you recall. I mean, there's a—and I shouldn't pick on them because that's actually a real company. It's worth something. It's just overvalued. But some of these things, especially the market that's really overheated, is the EV market. I mean, there's just so many different electric—electric filling your world.

Kara Swisher: Well, they were trying to find a way not to stay private, like to move out into the market for some advantage. That's what was happening. Those are investments that take a much longer amount of time. And you still have the big companies like Google and Amazon in that space with unlimited funds, right? And so they need to get out and differentiate themselves, if only to get bought, right? If only to get snapped up by these companies.

Scott Galloway: Well, I mean, there's a lot there. Capital is a strategy. Getting out, it's a great branding event. But if you look just at the EV market, seven of the companies have gotten out. They're just not doing well, and one of them is being accused of fraud. So I think the SPAC market—regression to the mean is one of the most powerful forces in the universe. And SPACs are nothing new. They generally underperform traditional IPOs because the filters aren't as fine there. They overperformed in 2020. My guess is they're going to start underperforming because you look at some of these things and you think, "Okay, it's got a great logo and it's interesting. But it's worth 60 times revenues." So the SPAC market, I think you've got to discern between traditional IPOs that the traditional guys are taking out.

Kara Swisher: So of the traditional IPOs, which ones do you like? Reddit, Discord, Instacart?

Scott Galloway: Those are all ones that are very promising, I would say. Reddit's a really interesting one, I think. I don't know much about Discord. I worry that Instacart is part of the menace economy, engaging in regulatory arbitrage and arbitrage of people's time. Although I think a lot of people would say flexibility is a great thing. Anyway, sort of of the Uber Lyft ilk. I think Reddit is a really interesting company because there's been so few—if you think of it as a social media platform, there really hasn't been a social media platform of any size launched in the U.S. since Pinterest. And could Reddit be that new social media influence platform? So I'm excited about Reddit.

Kara Swisher: It's been around a while, right?

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was owned by Condé Nast. It's got a really interesting financial history of ownership and things like that.

Kara Swisher: I think a lot of companies are ready to go public. There's so many of them that have been funded, and they can't stay private forever. And I think you're right. Robinhood was a real indicator that these things can do well. And I think the public is desperate for more investments, right? More ability to publicly invest. So I think it's a good sign. And you're right about SPACs. I mean, it sort of kicks SPACs to the curb in a lot of ways, right? So the SPACs are the sort of second-class citizens of this.

Scott Galloway: Well, this was going to be a better prediction, but you're talking about private companies. I don't think they filed, but I think SpaceX is going to be worth more than Tesla. I think Tesla is going to head in the wrong direction. Save that. Save that for your prediction.

Kara Swisher: Anyways, well, that won't be my prediction for this episode. We'll be chit-chatting with Elon Musk about SpaceX. You're excited. That's a big get for you. You asked me what I'm excited about. We're going to talk a lot about space.

Scott Galloway: What? I'm an investor in a company called Better Mortgage that has taken out all the friction out of mortgages and then splits the cost savings. It did—one point, I think it did 1.2 billion this year. It's going to do 1.2 billion and is profitable and is SPACing with SoftBank. And the key to the whole thing is that you want to be able to finance your pipe. So I'm excited about that one that's coming out. So there's a lot. I mean, I think you just have to be—I don't want to say you have to be more discerning because you always want to be discerning. But the market is beginning to say, "Okay, just going public isn't enough." You know, there was a SPAC that went out last month that was off 20% on its first day.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, a lot more. It's starting. What do you think of Reddit? Discerning.

Scott Galloway: I think it's a very—I've interviewed the CEO many times. I know the other founder, Alex Ohanian, very well. Yes. They certainly clean themselves up more than others. They're small. They're small. You know, it's a small social network. It really is, even though I think it had the history of some really terrible situations on that platform. But I do think it's a super—I think it's a really interesting company in general. And I think they're much more thoughtful, even though they haven't been in the past necessarily. I think Discord as a platform is really interesting. Do you use Reddit? A lot of people are using it.

Kara Swisher: I do use Reddit. I use it for different things when I'm doing more research. I'm not—I don't spend my time chit-chatting away with people about whatever, whatever, anything, right?

Kara Swisher: That's, I just think it's a really interesting—I think people—I think alternates to Facebook are interesting. I'm looking at a lot of those. What are the alternates to current social media? Even as some of the social media sites, you know, Twitter's really doubling down on community, this thing they're doing. I think innovation in social media is really interesting. Obviously, fintech is much more financially lucrative.

Scott Galloway: Dabbling down on the metaverse because Mark Zuckerberg has realized that the real world gets in the way of his attention graph. Are you in the metaverse? Are you excited about the metaverse?

Kara Swisher: Fuck the metaverse.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. I get the point. I think he's just rehashing an old idea. It's a very old idea.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we get back, we're going to talk about Google's latest legal headache and also take a listener mail question. By the way, Scott, that listener mail question we got with George Hahn was an interesting voice. He was from Albania, France.

Scott Galloway: Definitely, Bertrand.

Kara Swisher: I loved watching your face. I fooled you, didn't I?

Scott Galloway: I fooled you. No, not for a second.

Kara Swisher: I totally fooled you.

Scott Galloway: For New York. I totally fooled you.

Kara Swisher: You totally didn't. We were completely aware.

Scott Galloway: Did I give it away when I said the French-Belgian-Albanian border? Didn't I, shouldn't I have given it away?

Kara Swisher: Right? Albanian really did.

Scott Galloway: That's wrong. Albanian was the end of your reign. A terrible expression of masculinity.

Kara Swisher: We enjoyed it. We enjoyed it. Anyway, we're going to be back in a second.

[AD BREAK]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with our second big story. The Justice Department is preparing another suit against Google. This one aimed at the ad tech business. Google faces antitrust suits from state's attorneys general and private plaintiffs. Attorney General Merrick Garland may file the suit before Cantor. Jonathan Cantor has confirmed as Assistant AG. This would sidestep conflict of interest issues. You know, all these companies are trying to claim anyone who's been critical of them is a conflict of interest. So what thinks you? These are moving forward, obviously, and FTC refiled on Facebook, I think, while you were away. Where do you imagine this is going or is it going to be a slow slog to nowhere?

Scott Galloway: I think you've summarized it perfectly in that this is coming. It's just going to come a lot slower than we think, right? And people like me who kind of take a rough shot, cliff notes, give me the headline news breakups, immediately go to the easy stuff and say, "Oh, they should spin YouTube." People who are more thoughtful about this, I know an analyst in London named Richard Kramer who has this company called Aret. He's very thoughtful and very smart about this stuff. Says the real problem is around their acquisition of DoubleClick. And essentially Google in the digital marketing sector is a buyer, a seller, and a market maker. So if you had a farmer—

Kara Swisher: So the Obama administration? That's when this happened.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, but people say Obama was basically bought off by Google and decided to leave the loan. That he had the same unholy alliance with Eric Schmidt that Trump had with Mark Zuckerberg.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, they all have their unholy alliances.

Scott Galloway: But if someone, a farmer, if the farmer, the person buying the wheat, and the market maker were all the same person, you think, well, that's probably going to end up in higher bread prices. And so that's what we have here. But most thoughtful people say this is the right place to zero in on from a true legal antitrust viewpoint. So I think it's going to happen. I just wonder if it's a year or 10 years.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, but Facebook has a similar—I mean, it's sort of a duopoly. And interestingly, there's a lot coming together. Apple, I think that case is going to be decided, allegedly, this week. The judge had talked about mid-September, the Epic case. Obviously, Apple went out of its way to settle with some developers around its App Store, although some people thought it was weak sauce in terms of getting ahead of the problems that they're going to face from a regulatory point of view. The FTC is looking at blocking the Amazon MGM deal. That's another one that's right there. Amazon was buying the bond library, et cetera. Do you think that's going to go through or not? I'm curious what you think on that.

Scott Galloway: Well, apparently they're looking about blocking it.

Kara Swisher: Do you think that goes through?

Scott Galloway: I don't know why it wouldn't. Like, one of the things you hate to say is like, look, they're really big, but there's plenty of competition in the space, right? Although, the FTC has a problem here. Like, what do they do? If they don't block it, they look like they're pushovers, right, in the things they're talking about. If they do block it and they don't have a case, they look like idiots if they lose. I don't quite know why they shouldn't allow this one. Obviously, Lina Khan is going to be more anti-Amazon because she's talked about that. But in this space, I think it's hugely competitive. I like in the streaming market thing. I think any case is not going to win in court. Why would you throw yourself up against a wall?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's going to lose in court. It's going to lose in court. Yeah. There is no middle ground. Usually with a middle ground, they can say, okay, to save face, we want you to sell the Cartoon Network and then we'll approve it or something. They can't say we'll sell the Bond franchise.

Scott Galloway: I agree with you that Amazon will say, well, in media, we have less than 2% share of streaming or whatever they'll say, right? But at the same time, if a company has so much market power, the results in a stock price where they can outbid anyone for any asset they want, that creates market power, which is the old Brandeisian antitrust test that says that's unfair. If any traditional media player can't even show up to the bidding table because they can monetize it by subsidizing these purchases through other markets, whether it's cloud, then you end up with anti-competitive market power. And the reality is Viacom was looking at this, Disney was looking at this, and none of them could justify the price that Amazon can pay. And at some point, Amazon just looks at every media company, every e-commerce company and says, well, maybe it makes sense at this price. Maybe it doesn't. But I'll tell you what, it makes sense to never let anyone do anything resembling a strategic acquisition because we outbid them because we have the currency to do it because we have such incredible market power in the capital market. So I think if you look at it through a consumer lens and a share lens, the argument traditional antitrust doesn't show up, but Lina Khan looks at stuff through a market power lens.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, but this is too much of a competitive market. I mean, there's a really interesting quote in Axios, the mere fact that she's criticized a lot of things about Amazon, I would hope, wouldn't mean that she would just then have to, by rote, oppose anything Amazon would do. That would be a real miscarriage of justice.

Scott Galloway: I would tend to agree with that. You can't just say—

Kara Swisher: That's an interesting thought. That's an interesting thought. Just because it's concentrated. Here, it is concentrated. They should be able to buy some things. Like I don't—I just don't—I don't know. And you know me. I'm like take them to jail, all of them. But in this case, I think it's just because the progressives want to make a—I think it's a stupid strategy to attack everything and you lose in court. And so what's the point of that? You're saying it would be symbolic but not justified, but not legally.

Scott Galloway: It's not even good symbolic.

Kara Swisher: Look, I think if you're any kind of reasonable person, you're like, well, there's kind of like a lot of streaming competition. Why would you? They can't. You know, they'll argue that they can lock consumers into the platform. But, you know, there's another really good quote by someone who backs Amazon here. "Amazon will no more have a monopoly over James Bond than Netflix has a supposed monopoly over Stranger Things," said Adam Kovacevic, who I've seen before around founder of the industry group Chamber of Progress, which counts Amazon among its partners. Going to be very difficult to make a case surrounding the facts. I would agree. They should be able to buy this.

Scott Galloway: I missed you, Kara. I'm sitting here looking at you and it just struck me that I missed you. How have you been?

Kara Swisher: Good. How have you been?

Scott Galloway: Good. You haven't asked.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. How was your August? How was your August?

Scott Galloway: Busy. I was working all the time. I was working on my book. I was working on this. I was getting a deal. I was trying to meet new dates on this show in case something happened to you. You know, I was working away and I have my lovely family. Everything's going well there. Everyone's good. The Golden Child had to go to school. The Butcher, The Giant, and The Golden Child, as I like to refer to them. They're all at the house.

Kara Swisher: They're all at the house. It sounds like a good Fellini movie.

Scott Galloway: Yes. The Butcher, The Giant, and The Golden Child. The Giant. I took The Giant back to San Francisco, speaking of which. He's very, I have to say, we spent a lot of time talking about tech. By the way, oh, my God, he's reading The Four. He kept talking at me. No, but he was talking at me about these issues. And I said, read this book by Scott Galloway. And he's halfway through it and he's already has some thoughts. He thought you were tough on them.

Kara Swisher: I know you said you weren't tough enough on it. I said he thought he could be tougher. He wants to talk to you about it.

Scott Galloway: Well, okay. He has some thoughts. All right. So anyway, he's reading your book.

Kara Swisher: Because I am scared of him.

Scott Galloway: Yes. Well, you should be because he's taller than ever. I think he's like grown to more interest. He's huge. He's huge. And now he's sort of filling out. Literally, the reason you work through August is you need a food budget of like $11 million.

Kara Swisher: It's true. I can't imagine what it takes. Do you literally just shovel food in front of him and say, okay.

Scott Galloway: He eats like four. How about it? He and I spent 10 days in San Francisco together, and he ate four meals a day, like four to five meals a day, and kept eating. It was crazy. I just gave him the credit card at the end and said, just go outside and get some food. Anyway, but he is reading your book, and he has a lot of questions for you.

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. This one came in via email. You've got, you've got. I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. Hi, team. So many Silicon Valley companies have left for Texas. Can you explore what this means for recruitment given the new Texas anti-abortion law? I can't imagine that Apple, Google, Facebook employees in Austin are happy with the new law or the decision to leave California if they did so. Employees at tech firms are young and generally left to center when it comes to politics. That's not actually true, Nina. This can't be good for enticing folks to move to Texas. Regards, Nina. Nina, they're not as liberal as you think they are. But nonetheless, I find this really interesting. A lot of people who had moved had been crowing about moving to Florida or Texas or wherever are now, especially two things: COVID and these shitty laws which are just anti-human as far as I'm concerned. And they're really—I'm like enjoying yourself there in the 4,000 degree weather, hurricanes, COVID, everything, including people who've moved even just in California to Tahoe and other places. I think they're finding it a little more problematic than their grand departure from Silicon Valley. But I think it's difficult. I think it's going to be difficult. Austin's a wonderful city and very progressive, but still in the middle of Texas. So what do you think, Scott? This is the impact it'll have on people moving to Texas.

Scott Galloway: Absolutely none. Absolutely none. People talk a big game. And the reality is people choose where to live for much different reasons. You know, when I moved to Florida, but I consider myself a very politically conscious person. I moved there 10 years ago. You know, I moved, well, I moved for a lot of reasons. But when my in-laws were there, I wanted grandparents involved in my kids' lives, my youngest son. And the story ends well here. But at the time, it was speech delayed and we got locked out of seven for seven pre-K in Manhattan. I thought, that's it. I'm out of here. Cost of living. And the reality is Texas, between the lifestyle and the cost of living, the low taxes, a burgeoning economy, is just an outstanding cocktail in terms of lifestyle. And people don't go, well, there's a nicer life, but there are legislatures who might be voted out in two years, hopefully. They want to take women back to old Spain. I'm not moving. Said no one ever. Roseanne Arquette goes on Twitter and says, I just gave up a movie role because it's in Texas. And I thought my first thought, of course, was, wow, Roseanne Arquette still does movies. But anyways, no one cares. The reality is it's a bunch of posturing. It's not going to—and I think it's terrible. I hope that it helps turn Texas from red to purple to blue. But it's not going to impact. You're going to see just as many U-Haul one ways into Texas this week as two weeks ago.

Kara Swisher: All right. OK. That's interesting. I do think people are more concerned. I think you're correct, is that some of this stuff, because not very many companies spoke up about Texas, by the way. Bumble was one of them. They're based in Austin. They created a relief fund to help provide abortions. But one of the things that's interesting about this is the COVID thing is not. That is what I'm hearing from a lot of people who have moved there. They're like, wait a minute. And they don't quite know what to do about it because most of the cases right now in this country are in Texas, Florida, and Missouri, which is interesting. And I think that's more problematic for them. Like, what am I doing here? Like, this is not what I thought. And I do think it matters where you want to live in terms of politics. But I do think it's more as will these states become more purple where there's much more of a differentiation. This law is really quite appalling in so many ways and also very clever, unfortunately, the way they're doing. But when we go to South by Southwest, you and I are going to crash an after-hours club at the Silverado where we're going to desperately seek Susan and talk about our New York stories because we have nowhere to run. But you know what? Hope floats.

Scott Galloway: By the way, those seven of the 10 best Roseanne Arquette films—I feel bad about what I said about her. She's a wonderful actress. Don't insult her.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, I think it's an interesting time. I think it'll be interesting. You know, Beto might run for governor. There's a lot of activity in Florida, although DeSantis is popular. I think this COVID thing is not great for him. It's not, you know what I mean? I think a lot of sort of middle of the road people are like, ah, this isn't what I signed up for. They like living there. They like the low taxes. So I think it's probably more complex, although I have heard from a lot of people who are moving back to the Bay Area, for sure.

Scott Galloway: Really? People are moving back?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, they miss the food. They miss the—it's just not the same. It's not. And I have to tell you when Alex and I went back, it's so beautiful there. It is so—

Scott Galloway: It's a beautiful city.

Kara Swisher: And it's not, you know, when you get there, one of the things that really struck me is it's not—it's better than when I left. Like there was always a homeless problem. There was always a crime problem. There's a huge crime problem in D.C. where I live, you know. And so it wasn't—it was definitely not as bad as has been painted by the media, 100%. It just isn't. And I went all over the city, by the way. I walked in every part of the city. And there's this areas that are still bad are still bad. But they're not as bad as they were when I left. They just aren't. And I didn't get every square inch of the city.

Scott Galloway: That's interesting. You think things have gotten better. That's interesting. There's not so many douchebags. It's just, it's got a different sense.

Kara Swisher: What I understand, the VC community is moving to Austin. Is that what you're saying?

Scott Galloway: Whatever. It's just, it feels like the more alternative, it feels like a more diverse city than before.

Kara Swisher: It does. There's not as many buses rolling around, you know, those big tech buses. I thought San Francisco looked fantastic actually comparatively to when I left. It looks great. I haven't been back in two years and I really enjoyed myself. It's still a stunning, it's a stunning and creative place. Here's the thing, Gavin Newsom will probably win in the next election. So that's another thing. Like these tech guys tried to take him out and you know you never know. Larry Elder is doing rather well, surprisingly well, this guy who's a talk show host and stuff. So it looks like he's not. But it's interesting that tech bros are the ones. Some of the tech bros tried to take him out and it didn't quite work. And then another tech bro, Reed Hastings, is the one supporting him and some others. So it's just an interesting. California's going to be very. If he wins. The whole recall thing. I mean, initially the notion was the right notion that people should have democratic input and off cycles if things get bad. But this has absolutely backfired on everyone.

Scott Galloway: So let me get this. A governor can get 49 percent and some whack job who gets 13 percent becomes governor. I mean, that's not—that's democratic. And also I thought these tech guys who are really dissatisfied with San Francisco and have been beating the drum. I'm like, Larry Elder wins. It's like, okay, guys, did you really think this shit through?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, because of Dianne Feinstein, too, by the way. FYI, she's quite old. If she dies, Larry Elder would be able to appoint her. In the short time, he would be governor. So it would be because of him. I'm hopeful. You know and like Governor Newsom. I know and like him. I do. I think he made some missteps, but, you know, hello. Hello. I mean, come on. Come on. Anyway, that was a fun question. We want to hear more. If you've got a question you're curious about, go to nymag.com slash pivot and submit it for the show. All right, Scott, one more quick break. And now I want this prediction. I want more illumination on your prediction. It better be a good one. And by the way, since you're so well-rested, if it's not good, you're going to have to do another one.

[AD BREAK]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, we're back. Next up, give us this week's prediction.

Scott Galloway: My predictions are really rooted in optimism. And I came up with them both this morning. And that is I do think immunities are kicking in. I'm trying to find silver linings in this crisis because every once in a while at night when I'm alone, a moment of reality hits me and I literally become very anxious and can only fix it with Zacapa and edibles. So I'm trying to get into my gratitude practice. And one of the immunities that's kicking in, and sometimes out of crisis, whether it's the fires in London that spawns incredible architecture or investing in Germany and Japan and turning them into great allies after the crisis that was of the 20th century that was World War II, I do think there's some really wonderful things happening. And these are just two minor—not two minor ones, but two things I've noticed just in the last 24 hours. The first is that in response to this ridiculous, abhorrent, send women back to the seventh century, let's turn Americans into vigilantes narking on each other, known as this ridiculous legislation in Texas. I think it's going to bring a lot of warranted attention to family planning technology. And a company called Hey Jane that helps women with family planning using the anonymity and the technology and also the regulatory arbitrage and non-geographic standard notion of technology. I think that's a really interesting idea. I actually reached, I tried to find her on LinkedIn and said, I'd like to invest in this. There's another startup called Avia. I think it's A-A-V-I-A. And I met the founder and she's an incredibly impressive person that's trying to focus on women's health. Because of course, the first kind of famous tech health app is called HIMSS, right?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, HIMSS and HIMSS, right.

Scott Galloway: So just like we have three.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. And then they're like, oops, let's call it and hers.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Which is kind of reflects or mimics medical research to begin with. Like, let's focus on heart disease for men. And that gets over fun. Anyways, I think it's an exciting time to be in the women's health space. And I think that they could address some of these issues. And I think they're going to start getting a lot more attention. Two of these companies, Hey Jane and Avia, two small startups that I think are going to get more attention. And then my second prediction is I'm just so excited about this. Forbes came out with their annual ranking of schools. And these rankings are so frighteningly important for education because young people love brands because they're insecure and stupid. And so they need help picking something. So they go, okay, I got into Michigan and Michigan State. They're not smart enough to go, where would I be happier? Where do my parents live, they defer to the brand because they're insecure as they should be and don't know what they want. And that's why brands and marketers love young people because they defer to brands. And the most powerful pulse in brands and universities around a quarter of a million dollar purchase is the brand or specifically the rankings. These rankings are so powerful. And schools live and die by them, right?

Kara Swisher: I mean. A hundred percent.

Scott Galloway: And this is why they are so awful and so corrupt. One of the biggest signals or inputs around the methodology of rankings is admissions rates, specifically who they do not admit. So you go up in the rankings as you reduce your admissions. When you literally ignore your role as a public servant and take UCLA from 70% admissions rate that lets in the son of single immigrant mothers who aren't qualified, i.e. yours truly, and take it down to 12% this year, they go up in the rankings. And Harvard continues to let in 1,400 people from 55,000 applicants when they sit on the endowment, the GDP of Costa Rica. And it's led to some very unhealthy outcomes where we in academia have lost the script and think that it's great to create despair and misery across middle-class households with good kids who don't get into good schools.

Kara Swisher: I like you're still sticking with this one. Keep going.

Scott Galloway: So Forbes, Forbes, the gangsters at Forbes, thank you, Forbes, thank you, visionary Forbes, says, you know what one of our inputs is going to be? The percentage of kids on Pell Grants. Because access to the transformative opportunity that is higher ed should be an input into a ranking. And they found that two of the top 10 schools, number one, Berkeley, I think number six, UCLA, are UC schools, and nine of the top 25, including four UC schools, are public universities who said, you know what? Our job isn't to be fucking Hermes, it's to move society forward. This is huge for education, that the most important signal around funding, endowments, applications, these rankings is now a reflection of the value add of the civic responsibility these schools reflect. So my prediction is that we're about to enter an incredible disruption in brand equity in universities where people realize that, you know what, if you're rejecting 96% of your applicants, that's not a good thing. That's not a good thing. Anyways, my predictions, more attention to some wonderful startups focusing on women's health and the greatest, the brand, if you will, the brand equity industrial complex around universities is about to be disrupted. And we're going to see some of the great public universities that haven't lost their mission accelerate to the top. You're going to have six or seven of the top 10 schools from a brand equity standpoint, not be these people posing as Hermes. It's going to be great public universities that every year try and expand their admissions. Those are my predictions.

Kara Swisher: I have some comments, and I'd like your comments. Yes. One is, I'll start with the last one. Men fall behind in college enrollment. Women still—

Scott Galloway: Oh, my God. Did you see this? Give up on college. I just feel lost.

Kara Swisher: This was an amazing piece in the Wall Street Journal. By the way, Louis Swisher's taken a year off. He doesn't quite know the value of college, and he doesn't want to waste my money. It's interesting. He's going to work. He's going to work this year. He wants to.

Scott Galloway: Did you see the numbers? 40% men, 60% women. You think, well, that's not that bad. So you know what that means when you show up to college?

Kara Swisher: Yeah. There are 50% more women there.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. And the thing that really bothered me about that article is the anti-intellectualism that men feel. I just feel lost. Men give up on cods.

Kara Swisher: Let me just tell you, I've heard this from my son. I've heard this from my son. And he works really hard, by the way. He works 60, 70 hours a week. He loves to work. And it's similar thoughts, let me just say, similar thoughts.

Scott Galloway: What do you say to that?

Kara Swisher: Well, one, they're questioning the value. Two, they're oftentimes, quite frankly, not as qualified. Boys mature later. Seven to ten high school valedictorians are girls. So they're not as qualified usually. But also, and this will be a little bit controversial, I'm not sure young men necessarily want to go to an institution where a large theme is as a white male or as a male, you're the problem.

Scott Galloway: Not sure that's his issue. But go ahead. Go ahead.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, but it's not what I'd call—I mean you want to talk about identity politics, ground zero for it, where we start with, all right, oppressors over here, oppressed over here, go to a university.

Scott Galloway: So I think they're doing a value tradeoff. I don't think they see it as welcoming. And also to be blunt, some of this is a good thing. You know, the fact that more women who are in most instances, quite frankly, more qualified are over-indexing, maybe that's not a bad thing. But there is a crisis among young men who are overlooked because the general viewpoint is if you're a young male, the world is yours for the taking. And then we have priced ourselves—and it is. And we have priced ourselves universities out of a value equation here.

Kara Swisher: I think he doesn't quite know the value of it. I don't think he's bothered by any political thing. I think that's something that, you know, the hot take hacks of Substack enjoy writing about. But I think he doesn't—

Scott Galloway: Hot take hacks. I just, I'm sorry. Hot take hacks. It's the same story over and over again. Like poor white men, I'm sorry, they're not poor and they're still white. So I think they're doing fine.

Kara Swisher: I think he's just, doesn't understand the value. I thought this, the kind of lost, I think was like, what is the point of this was, and not so much, he works hard. So it's not like he doesn't want to work. It's just an interesting trend. That's one. The second thing is France is going to offer. By the way, I know Louis better than you know Louis. You know why Louis dropped out or took a year off?

Scott Galloway: Why?

Kara Swisher: You know why he took a year off? To be with his mama. Because of COVID.

Scott Galloway: What?

Scott Galloway: Because of COVID. Could be. Send him, not to NYU, send him to UCLA and football games and sorority rush and beer pong. I don't know. He likes working. He's like his mother.

Kara Swisher: I didn't like college myself. I did not like college. I like working and he likes working. It's really interesting. It's a Swisher trade. He doesn't want to go to football games and kick back a beer. He just doesn't. That's not him.

Scott Galloway: Anyway, France to offer free contraceptive to women under 25. Think about that. France is doing that. And meanwhile, Mexico decriminalized abortion. And here we are in our country.

Kara Swisher: I love that they're our new role model for progressive liberalism. I know, right? But the free contraception to women under 25 was really interesting because they're seeing these rates tick up. It's just such a difference here. But I do like this idea of these companies. Can you do one more thing? Can you illuminate on your space thing that you just said? You sort of said you were going to make a prediction and then you dropped it. What was your point?

Scott Galloway: No, I just look, I think SpaceX is an incredible company that's well managed and has incredible prospects. And I think it's going to soak up the space market. My sense is they're the only space company I follow that's hit every milestone. They have three and a half billion dollars in Pentagon contracts and Jeff Bezos is running around with his hair on fire saying it was unfair. It strikes me that they're just outperforming and out-executing everybody else. People get very excited, and then I think the other ones are just going to cede a ton of market capitalization to them. I think SpaceX is really exciting and really well operated.

And I think Tesla is a great company—I love the product—but it's dramatically overvalued. The quarter of a trillion dollar transfer event that's going to take place in the next 12 months is when Tim Cook gets on stage and pulls a silk curtain off a car with an Apple logo on it. From that point over the next 180 days, a quarter of a trillion dollars in market cap is going to transfer from Tesla to Apple.

Kara Swisher: We keep trying to whack that Tesla. Keep trying.

Scott Galloway: Well, wait till it happens. Wait till it happens. At some point, I'll be right. At some point, there will be a recession. You know, economists have picked nine of the last three recessions. Anyways, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I know, October, Cliff, whatever the heck.

Scott Galloway: SpaceX, in three years, SpaceX is worth more than Tesla.

Kara Swisher: All right, you'll keep trying on that. I think you're right on the SpaceX. I think Tesla is your hill you continue to die on, and you do die on it over and over.

Scott Galloway: Let's kill him again. Let's kill him again. Is he dead? No, he's not dead enough. I'm Jon Snow. I'm coming back. The Red Queen's going to bring me back to life.

Kara Swisher: I hate to say it, but I'm glad you're back. I liked all my dates. I liked our open marriage, but I really am glad you're back.

Scott Galloway: I'm up for that. I'm seriously up for that. As long as I'm the one that gets to be open.

Kara Swisher: We have a lot to do this month. We have a lot of shows. We've got PivotCon coming up in COVID. Have we announced that? Are we public? Are we out on that?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, yeah, whatever. We don't care.

Kara Swisher: And Code, you have a lot of jobs at Code. We have a great lineup. It's still going forward. I want you to be paid there.

Scott Galloway: Oh, you're going to love the dog in L.A. You're going to love the dog. I'm a little bit worried, honestly. I stay at the Beverly Hills Hotel. I wear a pink robe. I put on big Aristotle and Nassus glasses, and I just wear it. I eat a Cobb salad, and I look at strangers with a cigarette, and I go, "Jackie, marry me. I make you very happy, woman." They're like, "Is he talking to me? Is he talking to me?" This will be such an exciting impact. "Marry me, Jackie. I make you very happy, woman."

Kara Swisher: Preet will be there. We have a lot of people coming. Preet is coming. You and he are good. Governor Barra. Talk about, I am sick of being used as a way station.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, he's here for like a hot minute. He is here for literally a hot minute.

Kara Swisher: In any case, it will be really fun. Anyway, I'm glad you're back. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday for more. We've got a lot of interviews. We've got a lot of things happening. And as always, you can submit a question for the show at nymag.com slash pivot. Scott, you know what? You're going to read us out. So let's go.

Scott Galloway: Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Thanks also to Drew Burrows. Ernie Indra Todd engineered this episode. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next Friday for another breakdown of all things tech and business. I hate myself and I have erectile dysfunction, but I'm your dog chasing down balls and bringing them back with slobber and insight. We will see you on Tuesday. Kara, I missed you. I'm glad you are doing well.