Twitch's new guidelines, YouTube's video violations, and a prediction on LG's handset company

Kara Swisher: Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique. Fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say. So we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe. Expose corruption wherever we find it. And give fresh perspective on everything. From wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everybody. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I don't know what to say, but I'm Kara Swisher. Scott, are you there? Okay, let's just call out the elephant in the room.

Scott Galloway: It's not the elephant. You are questioning your sexuality.

Kara Swisher: No. Is that what's going on?

Scott Galloway: No, in fact. You saw my photo and you're thinking, I don't know. Maybe I'll get this whole outdoor plumbing thing, this hooking up with guys with Nick's sweatshirts and baseball caps on backwards. Maybe I made a mistake. Look at the dog.

Kara Swisher: No, it's actually solidified my commitment to lesbianism. I have to say, I am now a, there is no way I'm going back at this point in my life. Listen, for those who aren't following everything Scott Galloway does, he posted a photo of himself with the caption, "Unwaxed and Vaxed," and he was showing off his gun show. Gun show's in town. Boom! I'm too sexy for my shirt. Too sexy for my shirt. So sexy. I need you to explain yourself because I got pummeled last night by people. Rebecca did. "Dad, you're so embarrassing. So embarrassing." My 13-year-old boy refused to go to school this morning.

Scott Galloway: Okay. All right. Thank you.

Kara Swisher: Everybody is like, what the fuck? Explain yourself, Scott Galloway.

Scott Galloway: I don't use the term lesbian. I just say ex-girlfriend.

Kara Swisher: Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Listen, Kim Kardashian. I don't know where to begin. Jeff Bezos shows off his pecs. Who else shows it? Chris Maloney, who's in this new SVU version of whatever. That guy's in great shape.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Yeah, he is in good shape.

Kara Swisher: He shows his butt off a lot. You have yet to do that. And if that happens, I think we're needing to have a divorce. But explain yourself. What possessed you? Because literally, I was slammed. My texts were slammed. The Twitter was gone nuts. Explain what you were doing in that moment.

Scott Galloway: So this may come as a shock to you, but like many of my tweets, I didn't put a ton of thought into this.

Kara Swisher: No, like zero.

Scott Galloway: No, but honestly, Kara, honestly, I think it's important to raise awareness around the role that exercise plays in mental health and how important it is to stay fit during COVID.

Kara Swisher: That all is a lie. That all is a lie. So you want to really know what it is?

Scott Galloway: I found it fascinating.

Kara Swisher: Why didn't you show you meditating then? But okay, all right.

Scott Galloway: Well, first off, what's amazing is no one's noticed that in everything I do, I'm constantly in a state of undress. I love to wear drag. I constantly wear women's clothing.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, you do.

Scott Galloway: I'm constantly taking off my shirt.

Kara Swisher: You are. I did it on Vice TV.

Scott Galloway: I love physicality. I love being profane. And let me ask you this. So first off, I did the tweet and immediately Stephanie Ruhl kicks things off with, "I just threw up in my mouth."

Kara Swisher: Yes, I know that because she also tweeted and texted me, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway: My women's group went crazy. "There's not enough bleach in the world." That was one of my favorites. But my favorite was definitely "raising us back."

Kara Swisher: Yeah. That was a good one. But here's the thing. She just wrote "insane" as she texted it to me. "Why, comma, comma, comma, why?" And then someone else was, Amanda was, "It's a lot." Hillary Rosen was, "Bill Maher influence, question mark."

Scott Galloway: That's right.

Kara Swisher: You know, what is happening here?

Scott Galloway: Well, hold on. Before we deep into it. So let's be honest. I'll break it down for you. 51% vanity.

Kara Swisher: All right.

Scott Galloway: 40% insecurity. Actually, it slipped. 51% insecurity, 40% vanity. And I've been working out four times a week for 40 years. I like to signal my fitness. I like to say to people, "I'm a fucking monster." It makes me feel masculine. And it's totally vain.

Kara Swisher: Right. The question I have, though. You know, Chamath did this, FYI. Chamath Palihapitiya.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, everyone was comparing me to him.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, they were. And then Bezos, sure, with the shirt off kind of thing.

Scott Galloway: I don't mind. I don't mind either of those comparisons.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, so let me ask you this, though. And I'm being serious. What if I had exact same thing, but I posted the same picture, but I was a 56-year-old woman? How would the response have been different?

Scott Galloway: I know. Then I began to think about it. How would the response be different?

Kara Swisher: Hot, hot, hot. You're a queen. You look amazing. You look amazing, yes. And then we don't have to wonder what happens if a gay man does it. George Hahn, who's my Twitter friend, and granted, he's more handsome than me and he's funnier than I am. Within like 10 seconds of my tweet, he put out basically something I thought was going to be banned from Twitter. I felt nervous about that one. And everyone's like, "Oh my God, gurr."

Scott Galloway: That's how I would describe it. He was covering his junk. He was covering his junk. So let's be honest. Straight white males, there is systemic bigotry we need to root out. We have the right to flex.

Kara Swisher: After earlier this week when you were all so sad that white people can't say exactly what they want at all times.

Scott Galloway: We have the right to flex.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, okay. But let me just say, so I did defend you to people. I said, "Oh, whatever." I said, "Everybody posts themselves a lot and it doesn't matter if white guys do it." I am, for whatever people want to post, rebody even Hilaria, you know, Hilaria Baldwin. You know, she got attacked, interestingly, when she posted those very in-shape pictures of herself, which is interesting. Some people get attacked. Some people don't. So I'm for all bodies showing off, if you'd like.

Scott Galloway: Thank you. I was defending. This is not that. People are going to be shocked. Just so I trigger more people.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: I'm disappointed that Fauci and when we do the forensics around the pandemic. And because we're so woke and afraid to, the virus has not been politically correct. And 88% of people who have been admitted to the hospital have one comorbidity and 80% have two comorbidities. And oftentimes those comorbidities are related to obesity.

Kara Swisher: All right.

Scott Galloway: And the nation needs to get serious.

Kara Swisher: I know you're making this leap, but okay, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: Oh, look, the nation needs to get serious about providing people with the economic wherewithal to eat better and have more time for exercise. And we don't want to talk about it because the fashion industrial complex pivoted from saying everybody should be bulimic to everybody should have diabetes.

Kara Swisher: They really haven't. They are so out of control of this body positivity stuff. There is. Take a look at a supermodel these days. Take a look at any fashion show. Take a look at any magazine. The messages to women are still just awful.

Scott Galloway: I agree. Just awful. And it's not, "Oh, please be yourself." That's just the Dove commercial. For the most part, you have to look superman. There was an interesting article about how, I think in the Wall Street Journal, about how plastic surgery is going to come back. Everyone's going to get plastic surgery.

Kara Swisher: Let me ask you, have you had plastic surgery? I'm just curious.

Scott Galloway: Seriously, Kara, look at my face and ask that question.

Kara Swisher: If I decided to have plastic surgery. Would you? How about would you? Would I? 100% I would. But fortunately, here's the thing.

Scott Galloway: What would you get done?

Kara Swisher: What wouldn't I get done is a better question.

Scott Galloway: Okay. All right. What'd you have lifted? Here's the fortunate thing for a dude like me and dudes in general. Women get turned on with their ears. Men get turned on with their eyes. So if you are, the number three reasons women mate with men in third order, third order is their kind. It doesn't matter how powerful or how smart you are. You have to be kind. Number two, and this is all research, not me pontificating. Number two is intelligence. Women are drawn to a guy who will make smart decisions and not fuck up their family and do something stupid that gets their kids killed. But first and foremost, women select mates based on men based on their resources. And we don't like to admit it, but 80% of divorce filings in America are filed by the woman. And those filings typically are triggered by three things: the man losing his job, the man's business going out of business, or the man beginning to show signs of mental illness. In sum, the female species of humans selects mates based on who can protect their children. And we like to pretend that we're equivalent and we pick each other for the same reasons. It's just not true. And so the reality is if you're a young dude—

Kara Swisher: I want to get back to your photo.

Scott Galloway: Okay, go ahead.

Kara Swisher: I'm sorry. Sorry, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: How did we get that from there to your photo?

Kara Swisher: I find this shit fascinating.

Scott Galloway: Okay, all right. But you just put it up because you think you look good, right? Is that really pretty much it?

Kara Swisher: Pretty much. Full stop.

Scott Galloway: You did look good. I got to say. You look great. Little dog. Little huff the dog. Little dog in his pound. Give me a bone, baby. Give me a bone. You just love dropping knees. What are you going to do next? Is it full nudity?

Kara Swisher: I'm 56 years old. Do you know how fucking crazy, terrible I'm going to look in 10 years? Probably. When I'm on my deathbed, and this is how I make every decision, I'm going to look back and I go, "Yeah, that was stupid, and I'm glad I did it."

Scott Galloway: Okay. All right. Okay. Embrace the sloppy, vain part of yourself. But if Kim Kardashian can do it. Me and Kim.

Kara Swisher: You and Kim can do it. All of them do it. I don't have a problem with people doing that. I know people go crazy. And it's a little performative, let me just say.

Scott Galloway: Oh, just a skosh, you think?

Kara Swisher: Just a wee bit.

Scott Galloway: People thought I was going to drag you, but actually I'm here for you for this. If you need this for your mental health.

Kara Swisher: Because that's unlike you. That's unlike you. I know that. You usually pile on.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's so easy here to do so, don't you think so?

Kara Swisher: Usually pile on. Yeah, I know, but not so. I appreciate it. I appreciate your defense of my vanity and insecurity.

Scott Galloway: I did. I defended it to everyone who said, "What the fuck, Scott? You need to dump his ass immediately." I was like, "No."

Kara Swisher: You need to dump his ass immediately. It's true. I know. I was like, "No, not today." Anyway, what's your next shot? What are you going to show off your butt? What are we looking at soon?

Scott Galloway: My next shot has got to be in my book collection. I can't imagine this has really helped my esteem in the world of academia a whole lot.

Kara Swisher: Oh, yeah. That's right. So I literally need to start. All the professors. What do you think they're going to say?

Scott Galloway: You're lucky. I already heard from it. I already heard from the PR department at NYU.

Kara Swisher: Oh, no.

Scott Galloway: "We're processing this." That was my favorite.

Kara Swisher: You know what, Scott? You make me feel unsafe is really what's happening.

Scott Galloway: Here we go. Here we go. I'm thinking a lot. I still think I was absolutely. I think here's what I think about John McWhorter.

Kara Swisher: This is a lot. I'm going to tell you. He is a reasonable person. That's a pivot. Defending unreasonable people. So most of the people, he's sort of a, he's a, Amanda said this. He's a fig leaf for unreasonable people in many ways. That's what I think of him. I think he's very smart, but a lot of the stuff is not – our biggest problem is not that professors in this country is not that.

Scott Galloway: I don't think he said – but you're putting words in his mouth. I get it. He didn't say it's the biggest problem. I get it. He said it's something we need to be mindful of. He gave examples of professors who couldn't say different things on tests and whatever.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, speaking of people who I don't want to see a photo shoot of, Peter Thiel just announced that Google and Apple and some other companies, only Facebook was left out of the group. Or too woke. They're all woke. And they're too close to China, Google and Apple specifically. Thoughts? And that Bitcoin is a plot by the Chinese government to ruin all fiat currencies. A lot there. He was at the Nixon Institute, by the way, which put a nice bow on the hole.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, which is a great brand halo when you start trying to have it. It's little discourse.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. And by the way, he was on a panel with Pompeo.

Scott Galloway: There's a kernel of truth in everything he says. That you should assume any business you do with China, you're doing it with the Chinese security apparatus. And I think there's real legitimacy to the notion that China has a vested interest in Bitcoin because a huge weapon for us globally is that the dollar is the default currency. It's 60% of our default currency, but only 16% of GDP is the US, which kind of means that the nation or the world using the dollar as a default currency is sort of sitting on a fairly tenuous foundation. And it provides unbelievable advantage. If we want to shut off the taps to Russia and Iran, we can do it by basically demanding that they can engage in the SWIFT network and they can transfer dollars. And if you're transferring a commodity, it's so clean and elegant with our existing global financial institution to transfer the default currency USD. And when you can't do that, you're just immediately a secondary provider of goods. It is an enormous weapon for us. So China has a vested interest in delegitimizing the dollar as the US currency. And a lot of most of Bitcoin is mined there, by the way.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's the number one place for mining.

Scott Galloway: But to his specific comments, they are engaging. And I love PR, and I'd like to get your buddy, Brooke, on here to talk about this. But they are engaging in kind of Trump PR and its very effective warfare. And what they've said is, okay, it's come out that a hack of a half a billion of our consumers took place. And rather than give the media time to respond to that, let's create a diversion and accuse Google and Apple of being in bed in China. Let's point out Peter Thiel's on the board of Facebook and it's constantly. And it's come out that half a billion people have their information. Apple has a moment here. Thiel on behalf of Facebook have stuck out their chin. And the response from Apple should be very simple. And it should be: "We constantly invest and think about national security and work with national security agencies every day. We also constantly invest in the national defense of our citizens' data, period." And basically highlight that one of us takes our users' data very seriously. That makes you the other guy. That is what I would try and say very elegantly. I think Facebook has stuck their chin out, and I think Apple actually should probably respond, not mention them by name, but say we take national security interest seriously, and we take the security of our consumers' data seriously. Because all that does is basically say, "All right, Facebook, let's get back to that 500 million consumer data hack."

Kara Swisher: Yeah. What do you think? Anything comes out of Peter Thiel's mouth, you know there's nine agendas going on. He's playing 4D chess with everyone, and he is very smart. And I often am like, "Huh, interesting." He's so persuasive and yet such a manipulator of information.

Scott Galloway: He's very self-actualized, though. The thing that I really respect about Peter Thiel is I generally don't think he gives a shit what anybody thinks.

Kara Swisher: He doesn't, but he always has an agenda every single time. And so I think you're right. And I think this idea – he's been attacking Google and Apple with the Trump administration for a long time because I think on Facebook's behalf, he, of course, has to carry his woke banner thing constantly. He's tireless and tiresome.

Scott Galloway: Oh, you mean saying?

Kara Swisher: Yes, these are woke. This is like, "Let's throw this at them. They're woke." Like, give me a break. And I think what, and then he always does, indeed, always have a kernel of truth that China is a major threat to the United States in many aspects. He said he's a maximalist Bitcoin or two. So he likes to have it both ways, right? He likes to say, "You're all a tool of China and yet this." And so, again, he's also right. The government has to get involved in the regulation of cryptocurrency. So that's what he does. And it's so clever that he sort of spreads truths in with his manipulations.

Scott Galloway: So China involvement in Apple is really or Apple involvement in China relationship.

Kara Swisher: Yes. Apple now has more employees in China than they have in the US. I did not talk to Cook about this. It's my regret in that interview, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway: But there's, the bottom line is nations that do over a certain amount of business with each other don't declare war on each other. And I think the codependence that Apple represents between China and the U.S. actually reduces the likelihood that China will ever invade Taiwan or be even more aggressive in the South China Seas. Everyone says, "Oh, Apple has to kiss China's ass." Well, guess what? China has to kiss Apple's ass too, because if all of a sudden China, for whatever reason, decided or Apple can no longer operate in China, you would have towns just, I mean, entire cities kind of decimated. And China's very worried about that because they can't just vote one party out. The thing that makes China so unstable, and I'm channeling Neil Ferguson here, is that when you get upset with the party, you can't then vote in the Republicans. And we do that back and forth. And that's an incredible shock absorber. It makes our system much more resilient. If you decide to vote out the Chinese Communist Party, it's not a vote. It's a revolution. And so they have to be very, very cognizant and thoughtful about the middle class. The notion that they don't care about their populace is just not true because they realize if their populace decides to vote them out, they'll do it with pitchforks.

Kara Swisher: But I do think as a means of control, they're going to increase, you know, they want to have that power of Bitcoin. And also they are also, you know, so deeply into AI. You imagine this is the first country that's going to run entirely on AI because they can run roughshod over issues of bias or surveillance. You know, one of the things I did an interesting interview yesterday with someone who's an AI expert. And one of the things that was interesting to me is someone who's pushing around racial bias in AI and other biases in AI, gender biases. And they said one of the issues is if it's effective in getting these more fair, it also means they work better on everybody, which is not a good thing, right? So it's kind of a really unusual, there's all kinds of issues around what China's doing in AI and facial surveillance. But, you know, Peter Thiel is a very clever guy and he definitely is trying to make noise against Facebook. And he's a sort of a close in, knife in the chest player. You know what I mean? Like he'll go right in in the way.

Scott Galloway: You mean like funding a professional wrestler to the tune of $10 million to figure out a way to put a media company out of business?

Kara Swisher: He just goes right in and just, he doesn't mind. That is fearless. It is aggressive. And by the way, there's a brilliance there.

Scott Galloway: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: That's how I feel about your shirt pictures. Let me just go on.

Scott Galloway: Go on.

Kara Swisher: Minus the brilliance part. Aggressive. Minus the brilliance part. Anyway, let's get on to the big story. Okay, go ahead. Twitch, Amazon's live streaming service, is making changes to its conduct policies. It will enforce its policies on extreme behavior off the platform as well. This will include policing everything from deadly violence, membership in a hate group, terrorism, threats of mass violence, non-consensual sexual activity, exploitation of children, threats against Twitch staff, and any threats of violence at a Twitch event. Twitch's rules used to focus on behavior on the platform, but didn't specify the rules would be enforced in other areas. This is a response to allegations of harassment against women video gamers on the platform and some of the people who are the most popular on the platform. So this is really interesting. Brian Chesky has talked about this when we did the interview, talking about not letting people use his service that are convicted of, say, the capital attacks or use the service. So what do we think about this?

Scott Galloway: I absolutely love it. And I think it gives capitalism a better name. And that is, I think this is shareholder driven and it happens to be the right thing to do. And it's wonderful when those two things intersect, because if you look over the last 12 months, there's been a wildly accretive, what I'll call move to purity. And that is Snap and Pinterest have outperformed their peers because they're seen as a safer place. And Twitter's most accretive action was kicking off the ground zero of misinformation, our former president. And I think everybody, public I'm an investor in is the antidote or the immunity. Call it an immune response to the lack of concern for stakeholders and commonwealth that you hope you get from capitalism. But public is the immunity to Robinhood. Neva is going to be the immunity to Google subscription search. OpenWeb, another company I'm trying to invest in, is going to be the immunity to the toxicity of comments on media. There is an investor play, a capitalist-driven move of being the immunity to some of these tech companies that are so damaging for America. You know what's, in my opinion, one of the most exciting examples of capitalism is Moderna. You know, incredibly smart, hardworking, humble Turkish immigrants become billionaires by coming up with a vaccine.

Kara Swisher: BioNTech.

Scott Galloway: The BioNTech, Pfizer, the Pfizer vaccine.

Kara Swisher: That was Pfizer? That was Moderna?

Scott Galloway: That was Pfizer.

Kara Swisher: No, it was Pfizer. Thank you for that. No problem. They're billionaires. They've become billionaires.

Scott Galloway: Moderna. They were before.

Kara Swisher: Stop fucking correcting me with your whole truth thing. I did a big interview with them. I know about them. Your whole truth thing. Can you say, I think they're inspiring. Can you say more about them?

Scott Galloway: Actually, it's BioNTech. And BioNTech did this, not Moderna. And it's the Pfizer vaccine. And the founders are a Turkish couple who immigrated to Germany. And their names are Ugar Sahin and Aslam Tureci. An inspiration. And they had previous companies, a number of biotech companies, who I can't recall at the moment, but they were billionaires. They ride their bikes to work. They're Turkish immigrants to Germany. They created the vaccine. And actually when I got the Pfizer vaccine, I sent them a photo of myself getting the vaccine and I didn't post it either. It was interesting. And I think I did later when I had the second one, but I said, "Thank you so much. Thank you so much for doing this." And they were like, "Okay, sounds good. You're welcome." Like, "Oh, yeah. We got to get back to saving humanity. We got to get back." And they're using now, they're taking that technology. It's going to go into a lot of other things, including cancer and other. And they deserve to be billionaires. And I think Moderna, the other Moderna's first product was the vaccine. And they have made an absolute shit ton of money for their shareholders and their employees. And I think it's wonderful. You have I have been thinking a lot about because I'm bored and in between shirtless photos, I've been thinking about money. My other favorite thing other than my vanity. And I'm taking money out of the public markets, which I actually think are going to disarticulate from the real economy over the next two years and go flat to down. I think the markets are just overvalued. Nobody knows. We'll see. But I've been putting money in private companies. And my theme, my entire theme for the next five years of my life around investment strategy is citizenship. And it's not because I'm a good citizen.

Kara Swisher: Woke capitalism? Is that what you're doing?

Scott Galloway: That's what the Republicans are calling it. That's not being woke. I'm not talking about boycotts. I'm talking about people want, people want an alternative to Google. People want an alternative to Robin Hood. People want an alternative to social media that is a handmade to sedition. And I think that there's going to be a lot of money in that. And power corrupts. And I think there is an immune response. I think the government's going to go after these guys and make it difficult for them to kill competitors as easily as they have in the past.

Kara Swisher: The thing about maintaining it, though, that's going to be difficult, is sort of monitoring people. And, you know, some of these things are pretty easy. Are they – did they participate in the Capitol riots, for example? Are they a member of a hate group that can be found out? And so I think it's going to be difficult enforcement with these things. But I think the – there is no thing – there's no such thing. You know, I told you I was watching this Into the Storm. There's people – one of the guys who created 8chan, the guy who created 8chan, Frederick Brennan, I think his name is, who got sort of – it's a complex story. In any case –

Scott Galloway: And then he's the one that freaked out about it, right? and started raising awareness around how toxic it had become?

Kara Swisher: Yes, and he said, "I thought that online and off," because he had got, they had sued him. He had to escape the Philippines because of a lawsuit. And so the people who took over HN from them and who are thought to be Q. And one of the things he said is "I, for years, I thought online and offline were separate things and they're not."

Scott Galloway: That's a great, I mean, it's a simple but genius insight when you think about it.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, and so he was talking about his own situation, but he's absolutely correct. And what's interesting is what does it mean? Well, who can, you know, if you do things that are capitalist, it also helps it. There was just, you know, Patagonia just gave a million dollars to voter registration issues in Georgia and the voter suppression stuff. And of course, immediately Ben Shapiro, that guy, the non-smart version of Peter Thiel.

Scott Galloway: Ben is really smart. I mean, I think he's, I think he's like you said, he brings.

Kara Swisher: Who is Peter? No, I think Ben is very smart. I do not think. I think he's not in any way. And he actually made a stupid tweet. He's built a great company, too.

Scott Galloway: We'll have to disagree on this. I think he's a troll.

Kara Swisher: I agree with that. He's also very, very smart. I guess. But he made a stupid tweet where he was talking about that they gave him this money. And then they said, "And then here's our $65 shorts." And, of course, everyone pointed out the reason they're $65 is because they have child care. They don't use, you know, you can sell them for $10 at Walmart because they get them from places where the work conditions aren't good. And I wrote, "Who dis new capitalism?" Like it's, so what? You're against capitalism?

Scott Galloway: Oh, you just love yourself. You just took your shirt off.

Kara Swisher: No, I don't love myself. No, I did not take my shirt off. No, but I'm saying there are new kinds of companies that are going to be a little different, one hopes, that are going to use capitalism, the strength of capitalism. I think it's a great investment strategy. Now I'm pissed at you. Now the shirt is nothing. Ben is nuts. What's his company, The Daily Wire? Have you listened to his podcast?

Scott Galloway: I have listened. I mean, it's like listening to, who's that woman Candace Owens? You listen, you go, "Oh my God, I'm so frightened." Her content is so scary and she's so, I don't know.

Kara Swisher: He is very smart. He is very good. His thinking is very foul. You can walk right through it. It's a big giant holes constantly. He just says things loudly.

Scott Galloway: Well, come on. Look at the podcast world. Dan Bongino and Mark Levin.

Kara Swisher: All right.

Scott Galloway: Is that going to be the bar?

Kara Swisher: Okay. Yeah. He's real smart in comparison. In any case, I don't want to go on about it because I don't want to spend a minute of my life thinking about this guy. But nonetheless, it made me think about the idea that there is, you know, Patagonia is a very good example of this. They've got shareholders. We should get Ben on. Would you have Ben Shapiro on the show?

Scott Galloway: No.

Kara Swisher: No?

Kara Swisher: Okay. No, 100% not. No, I don't want to. Life's too short. In any case, and he'll make the hay out of this for some reason.

Scott Galloway: In any case, I want to talk about this. The idea of what it takes, that you can combine capitalism with this and not be accused necessarily of woke is that it's good for the customer, that customers are expecting this, and that people do think very hard about their money.

Kara Swisher: Now, listen, Twitch is owned by Amazon. So, you know, meanwhile, over here where they're tweeting mean pee things at reporters who are questioning their work stuff, or congressmen in that case, which is fully valid for congressmen to do that, here they are doing this. So it's kind of interesting.

Scott Galloway: Look, I think Amazon, I think all these companies have recognized that at least the perception of citizenship is now accretive. And it used to be just be capitalist, just be Darwinian and harsh and people respect it and it's manly and it's all about shareholder value and all is forgiven as long as the share price goes up. I do think that the sun has passed, I'd like to think, sun has passed midday on that. And there's a great strategy that you are going to see, you know, we call it ESG right now or sustainability. You're going to see a citizenship portfolio that says, we're not doing this to save the whales. We're doing this because we think these stocks are going to go up because the marketplace is looking for immunities around each of these viruses, specifically the biggest virus, which is Facebook. And I think Mark Zuckerberg realizes that and is trying to pivot away or trying to diversify. And I think Jeff Bezos, who is clearly, in my view, going to go down as the clearest blue flame thinker in business history at this point, is saying, OK, any opportunity we have to come across, you know, to starch our hat white and be the sheriff that shows up and acts responsible. I think they've actually been pretty disciplined around this stuff. We'll see what they do in Alabama. Because if they take a really – the direction they were going in was not a pretty one, I'll tell you, with all those tweets and the aggression. We'll see where they go. That was wrong. They did apologize. They apologized. They apologized.

Kara Swisher: Cooler heads prevailed.

Scott Galloway: I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised, and I just don't know the situation down there. But if I had to bet, I don't think the union is going to win. Because $16 – I went to Kentucky to pick up our puppy. And I said, how's the economy here? I was driving through Kentucky.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, you told me. It was a beautiful day.

Scott Galloway: And they said the economy is booming because of Amazon. Yeah. And if you have a couple and each is working at the Bessemer factory and each is making 16 bucks an hour plus benefits, that's an upper middle class lifestyle in Bessemer. In addition, in addition, what Amazon has done, and this is the key component of any successful company in my view, is that they have created an internal brand of credible acceleration. And that is no matter where you start at Amazon, there is a chance you can crawl out. Because one of the most dangerous things about the cluster of low-paying jobs is that all of us have been in one of those clusters. Not all of us. Maybe you didn't. But most of middle-class and lower-middle-income households. I parked cars. I was a box boy. And then a lot of young people, 60% of those people, make it out of those clusters. But if you don't make it out of those low-wage clusters within 10 years, the 40% who remain in them, only 2% escape. And so the key to creating better jobs is not that we do away with low-paying jobs. It's just that we create acceleration and trajectory out of those clusters. And Amazon has done that. Amazon credibly says to anybody on the warehouse floor, if you work your ass off and you're good and you have specific domain expertise and talents, we will elevate you. You have an opportunity to make a career.

Kara Swisher: There's still credible discussion of how they treat their workers that they need to address. No doubt. No doubt. They absolutely have to address it. It's their biggest issue, given how many people they've added on. They've hired half a million people in 12 months. And also, we're at a different point of what a worker is and what the worker's right should be. And there's a lot of political pressure and there's a lot of populist pressure. And so even though, you know, thank you so much, Jeff Bezos, for $15 an hour. Some people say those jobs in their warehouse used to be $20. You know what I mean? And so Amazon has set the price. So there's lots of arguments you made. But I do appreciate this Twitch move. So whether it's, as you say, lipstick on cancer or it's actually a very good move, this is really great. They crafted this in an interesting way. We'll see if they can enforce it. I think I have issues around enforcement. And we'll see what companies do better. They're not just virtue signaling but actually are woke in the way we appreciate. You know what I mean? Sort of walk the talk and do things because they mean about it.

Scott Galloway: Now, a lot of people feel this is all bullshit. But there's a huge – I think there's a real learning here and something that endures from this decision and very little endures about these decisions. And the enduring future of this decision is a recognition by the wealthiest man in the world that you cannot separate online behavior and offline behavior. And what I would put out to a lot of people, individuals, famous, successful, blessed people on Twitter, it's like, how can you behave that way online and not believe that it's gonna impact you offline? How can you be this weird, aggressive, toxic online, and for some reason think that it doesn't impact your perception people perception of you offline? It just you would never say that to someone in person. You would never be this aggressive or thoughtless if you had to face somebody. And Jeff Bezos saying that, the recognition, if, you know, Mark Zuckerberg, when he, when he lets anti-vax content run amok, that means in communities of color, they're just less likely to go sign up for a vaccine. The online content, online behavior, it should not be distinct or have different standards than offline behavior.

Kara Swisher: Oddly enough, Mark Zuckerberg, if you had met them in person, is an easier person to deal with than Jeff. It's interesting.

Scott Galloway: Easier to deal with in what sense?

Kara Swisher: Just pleasant, earnest, if you met him in real life. Really? Can't imagine saying shitty things.

Scott Galloway: I heard Mussolini was fucking charming. I mean, really charming, like a great guy to party with.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, yeah, fair, fair. Incredibly charming and handsome and nice. Let's go to a quick break. We endorse this. When we come back, we'll talk about YouTube and the videos that violate their policies and a listener mail question.

Scott Galloway: By the way, most sociopaths are usually very charming.

Kara Swisher: All right, thank you. That's it.

Scott Galloway: But you'd know.

Kara Swisher: That hurts.

[Ad Break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, we're back. YouTube is revealing how many views videos on the platform are getting before they are removed for violating guidelines. They used to just talk about takedowns, which doesn't really give you much of anything. This week, the company disclosed a new metric they're calling Violative View Rate, VVR. It calculates the percentage of total views on YouTube that come from videos that do not meet its guidelines before the videos are removed. In a blog post, YouTube said in 2020 for every 10,000 views on YouTube, 16 to 18, were for content that broke YouTube's rules and lets the removal of the video. The Violative View Rate has dropped over 70% since it was first tracked in the fourth quarter of 2017. it adds more data on, certainly. So what does this tell us about what's going on there on YouTube? What do you think of this new metric that they're trying to put out there? And I have some thoughts, but how do you feel about this?

Scott Galloway: Oh, this is total bullshit. They've had this metric forever. It's just the moment the metric turned to casting them in a good light, they've decided to make it public. Basically what they're saying here is our bad content isn't as damaging as you think of the media reports.

Kara Swisher: Because of the impact.

Scott Galloway: Well, yeah, they're saying, look, once bad content goes up, we immediately recognize it and take it down. And that metric, they've been tracking this metric for years, but they haven't made it public because just now it's starting to reflect them in a good light. This is, you know, quite frankly, I just think it's bullshit. It has nothing to do with trying to, this is just a plain and simple PR move to say, hey, we're bad, but we're not as bad as you think. What are your thoughts?

Kara Swisher: I think, look, the more data the better, as always. And I think the ones where they just said, we took down this many, I don't even know what it means. What do you mean? What kind? Like, it was so unspecific. That's just how they do this. And so that wasn't very helpful as a metric. This is a better metric, so okay. But I would love them to allow, along with Facebook, independent researchers to get in there and look at this stuff. So I can actually hear from them about what matters. And then we get very different skews on what's happening. I also don't know, and I think Casey Newton pointed this out in his excellent newsletter, The Platformer, was that you also don't know what's the adjacent content that almost got took down and what's the impact of those posts, right? So there's a lot of stuff that's right on the edge that they don't pull down. And so I think their favorite thing is to give data that is slightly insightful, but yet not vetted by people who are not working for YouTube. And so great. I'm glad to take this one. I think a lot of the researchers are, but at the same time, there's lots of questions on what it means. And so maybe they're moving back to better moderation, but I'd like more much, like almost full transparency on how they do these things. And the excuse they use is that we want to catch the people. If they know how we catch them, they'll know. And I don't know. I just, you know, we know how cops work. You know, I mean, of course, there's not enough transparency there either, but it's just their take on it. And I think you're right. I think they knew this and it looks better. And the fact that they hadn't done this for a long time seems kind of odd given all the issues around it. I don't know. You're right. It looks better, but we need more. Not enough.

Scott Galloway: There's a general rule in research. And that is if you want to know the conclusion to any research, just find out who's funded the study. Yeah. And so Google is funding this study or this data. The data I would love to see, and of course, Google and Facebook will never work. I'd love to see an academic, and maybe this research is out there, and if it isn't, someone forwards it to me.

Kara Swisher: There's a big struggle with research from Google and all these things.

Scott Galloway: Well, Google has weaponized the academic community because at the end of the day, every academic sits around and asks himself one question. How can I hold myself less accountable and make more money? Anyways, so what you have, what would be great, what would be great research from the strong and still present cohort in academia that is pursuing the truth and trying to make the world a better place and is fearless with data and data is their valerian steel, is what would be really interesting is to look at all the media consumption and how of amongst mass shooters and how it's different from other people that don't pick up an AR-15. And I think what we're going to find, I'm going to go out on a limb here. The YouTube and Facebook over-index among young men who decide to find an AR-15 and go wreak terror on our communities. That's my thesis. That's my thesis. I would love it if it would be great if an academic did peer review research to validate or nullify that thesis.

Kara Swisher: Well, what's interesting about that, the other part is how they link with each other. That's why I want independent researchers is that, you know, a lot of the YouTube videos are seen on Facebook. So, you know, when they go over there, and so even if they take them down, you don't follow the train of impact, you know what I mean, and where it is and who's watching it.

Scott Galloway: Attribution. It's the hardest thing in the world.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, exactly. And so it's just kind of interesting that there's all these interesting researchers like Daphne Keller from Sanford's Cyber Policy Center. It talks a lot about these issues. We should have her on because it's a really, you know, you want to say, good, we're getting more data at the same time as can you just let us look at the data? Can we just have it? And of course, they have all kinds of excuses not to. And that makes them vulnerable. That makes them 100% vulnerable to hand over their thing. But there's all this interoperability between these companies that is not clear, right? Who sees the whole picture? And so when you're understanding like, where did it, like in this QAnon video, remember HN was taken down because that's where he put his manifesto. But he had been, as it turned out, more radicalized on YouTube. So sort of they went and shut down HN, but then they didn't do anything about the YouTube part of the equation. So I think it's much, much more complex. And if we get independent researchers in here, it would be great. That would be my ideal. and not funded by these companies. You know what I mean? Not funded. This should be a government thing too.

Scott Galloway: 100%.

Kara Swisher: And acknowledge the difficulty, which Daphne just wrote, we imagine that platforms can bring the whole sprawling chaos of human behavior into compliance with the law, make our lives policeable and policed to no degree, no government history could have ever imagined. Not only do we think it's possible, we think it's a good idea. So it's just, it's an interesting time right now. where these companies are, you know, speaking of woke companies, they should give this data and see how we can all figure out how they react with each other, et cetera, et cetera.

Scott Galloway: Look, at the end of the day, Google won't even tell us how they decide and program algorithms to push content and answer content with a greater veracity than God or Super Bing to 93% of the world. I mean, so the notion that they're going to release other data, we don't know how they're making a decision between whether to give someone instructions on how to build a bomb or a voter registration form when they voice intent around changing government. They won't even let us know how they do that. So the notion that they're going to put out any data that hasn't been totally starched clean and reflects them in nothing but a positive light is just, is absolutely wishful, wishful thinking.

Kara Swisher: I love that QAnon's brand is totally, I love how with the Matt Gaetz scandal, they're like, well, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Scott Galloway: I know, right? I mean, all of a sudden, they're very thoughtful and measured. It's like you finally have your child trafficking scandal. You got it.

Kara Swisher: I'm telling you, Scott, if you want to watch a great show, it's like one year. What's it called again? Into the Q or something?

Scott Galloway: Into the Storm.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's right. You've been talking about that. So good. It's so good. It's so interesting. And it's like, it makes you realize like one person can really mess up a world. Like, you know, kind of stuff. And it's not even clear that it might, QAnon might've started off with someone else like Steve Bannon or something. I always thought it was Steve Bannon, but it turns out that's not the case. But at this point, at least, they think many people think it's been had yet. Into the Storm, I'm gonna watch it. But what's really sad is all these incredibly sad people gathered around it, making their livelihoods around sad, sad things.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but again, it comes back to the same place. When you attach to a job, when you attach to economic prosperity, when you attach to a great relationship, when you attach to learning, when you attach to helping others, you don't attach to conspiracy theory. And I think the biggest antidote to all of this is economic opportunity for people under the age of 30. I think if you're ridiculously, when you get a mate, you comb your hair, you put on a clean shirt, and you don't go to 8chan. Here's what I actually think. This is a lack of opportunity.

Kara Swisher: I know, but this stuff is more interesting to think about Gates putting a chip in your body and that you got to wait two weeks. You know what I mean? Like, it's very creative. I'll tell you that. A lot of this stuff is crazy.

Scott Galloway: I'm talking about the scary stuff where you believe, where you're inspired to do something really heinous. I think that is directly correlated to lack of opportunity. One of the things I took away from this documentary is there's a lot of people who, if you could channel their intelligence in this way rather than crazy, it would be quite something.

Kara Swisher: But you're right. Anyway, speaking of which, here's what we should all do is smoke a lot more weed. Moving on, we're going to take this listener mail question. Where did that go? Hello. Hello. I know. I know. I go everywhere. This is a wild day just because I'm still reeling from your photo. Okay, moving on. Let's take a listener mail question.

Scott Galloway: Go for it. You've got, you've got. I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail.

[Listener Mail Question Plays]

Kara Swisher: So Scott, this is interesting. The lack of these shares not doing well. I've read the stories and I don't quite understand it because it doesn't make sense to me since I know a lot of people who smoke weed. And it's in California and everything. The stocks and the businesses are much more problematic. Do you have any insight?

Scott Galloway: You know, I don't. And I stop giving advice around stocks. What I tell people is the stocks I own or don't own. And I joke a lot about marijuana. I actually don't smoke that much. I occasionally take an edible when I need to sleep. But I'm a big fan of legalizing marijuana. I think it's much less damaging. You know, people don't smoke a joint and engage in domestic violence. Whereas with alcohol, alcohol causes –

Kara Swisher: This is my son's argument, but go ahead. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'm just saying.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but marijuana doesn't cause cancer. Alcohol does. I mean, if you really look at harm to society, the green wave, we should welcome it and ride it. And it has medicinal benefits, helps people sleep. You know, I remember even like growing up, I never did cocaine. And I was like, when guys use cocaine, they just – or people do cocaine, they just become selfish and weird and predatory. Whereas when people smoke pot, they want to laugh with each other and watch South Park. I'm like, okay. And then when people get drunk, they get in driving accidents. And I'm not saying you should ever drive impaired under marijuana. But anyway, I'm a big fan of marijuana. In terms of an investment strategy, as a general rule, I don't like it. Because every billionaire baby boomer I know smokes pot. And they are investing in marijuana, which says to me the space is overinvested. And which drives down returns. And there's still huge regulatory hurdles. If I were going to invest in marijuana stocks, I would invest in the mine. I'd invest in the picks. I'd find the company that's producing hydroponic or cultivating technologies. I wouldn't invest in the distribution. I think MedMen, I was in LA and I wanted to go into a MedMen and I didn't have time because supposedly it's the Apple stores of marijuana. Whenever I'm in Aspen, I go into, there's this great marijuana store. I just like seeing the merchandising and also buying edible chocolates. But I don't like the space and I don't own any marijuana stocks because I think, quite frankly, it's overinvested. What do you think, Kara?

Kara Swisher: Well, it's interesting. The biggest one is actually a company called CuraLeaf. I did a tiny bit of research on this. It has 100-

Scott Galloway: Is that Canada? Is that a Canadian company?

Kara Swisher: No, I don't know where it is. In any case, it's got 100 dispensaries in half the states, processing facilities, cultivation sites. So it sort of is a soup to nuts kind of thing, so to speak. Sell tons of strains, edibles, everything else. It really is growing fast compared to others, for example. And so at some point, someone's going to want to own this. Right now, they consider it about $21 billion legal marijuana market right now So it going to be a big

Scott Galloway: And taxes

Kara Swisher: Yeah and taxes

Scott Galloway: Obviously people are attracted States are attracted More states than ever are attracted to the taxes.

Kara Swisher: But, you know, it's historic. New York signed this marijuana bill. Cuomo's in trouble. That's the interesting thing here. Seriously. New Mexico, Virginia. The best thing to happen to marijuana stocks is these women coming forward against Andrew Cuomo.

Scott Galloway: Okay. All right. Well, it's been going on. Look what he's doing. Do you think all of a sudden he would legalize marijuana and legalize gambling if he wasn't trying to create huge distractions right now? Do you think marijuana would be legal in New York right now?

Kara Swisher: No.

Scott Galloway: Which it is if women had not come forward against Andrew Cuomo and his staff had said, shit, we got to distract and govern right now. Any decision, get it done right now.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. And I think ultimately, it's a very good industry. These stocks that go up and down, and they really do. It's really quite something. You know, there's not a lot of, there's no, the federal issues are a big deal. It needs more institutional backing when you see like the way meat did, the impossible, you know, when the big meat purveyors invested. You don't see a lot of, people are still sort of waiting on the outside, but there's been investments like American Tobacco came in to one at one point last year, I think. And so I think it's, what's really interesting is, is that it's, it's an interesting area. And there's lots like in, in this area, CuraLeaf is one of them. There's a couple of others. There's one called AFRIA. There's a whole bunch of them. And I think you'll just not going to figure out who's going to be, but when the institutions come in, when there's more very clear federal legislation around the uses of this, and there's more than however many states are doing it right now, it will be a big industry. I think it's just hard.

Scott Galloway: We've made huge progress, though. When my mom was suffering from late-stage cancer, one of the few things that ever gave her relief and that she could actually eat was when she smoked pot. And she never smoked pot in her 69 years before that. And I didn't want to travel with marijuana. This is 15 years ago. I was very scared of being on a plane with marijuana. So I would literally end up on the Las Vegas strip trying to score marijuana. And I remember thinking, how fucked up is this? You know, unless I can get my mom opiates, no problem. But in order to stimulate her appetite, I got a, I'm this 40 year old dude on the Las Vegas strip trying to fucking score illegal drugs. And I'm like, this is just so screwed up.

Kara Swisher: You know what? One observation I have right now is that it's clear neither you nor me know what we're talking about and we should

Scott Galloway: No, actually, I've studied stuff because I'm writing about it. I'm really interested in the space. Do you disagree? Do you know what you're talking about?

Kara Swisher: I do a little bit. Yeah, I've been really looking at it. I do think that it's, you know, because there's so much technology involved in the delivery of this stuff and how to get it.

Scott Galloway: You mean an Uber driver?

Kara Swisher: I'd be fascinated if Amazon got into it, right? Like delivery of it.

Scott Galloway: No, they're not going to get into it.

Kara Swisher: Well, that's interesting. Yet, but at some point they will.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's the perfect application for droids because the value to weight ratio is incredible.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like it's, they're very small. You having a small investment. I mean, sorry. You just hold on to it for the long run. I think that's how I would, I'm not a.

Scott Galloway: That defines every investment. Say something that means something, Cara.

Kara Swisher: All right, Curaleaf is where a lot of people think that that's the one. There's a couple others. And the focus has often been on the growers, but there's other businesses around it. And I think, I don't know, it just reminds me a little of Bitcoin. It reminds me of like a lot of stuff where I don't want to like, just because the stocks haven't kept up doesn't mean they won't. How's that? I just feel like there's a big, this is going to be a very strong industry. And it's sweeping. If I had to guess, you know who the winners are here? Legalization is sweeping North America.

Scott Galloway: You know who the winners are here? Companies that make drones because of the value to weight. And also, I think big tobacco is going to come in here. I think they understand regulated industries. They understand how to sell combustibles. I would be shocked if Philip Morris and Altria and BAT and Japan do tobacco. And they have made investments.

Kara Swisher: Yep. They went into Juul, things like Juul first.

Scott Galloway: I'll tell you what, you keep writing about it, I'll keep researching it.

Kara Swisher: Okay, good. I think, you know, there are 16 states plus D.C. that have legalized recognition. That was like nothing, nothing, honey, a couple of years ago. I just feel like it's one of these things. You should keep it, hold it. Don't imagine it's going to be like your biggest thing ever, but I think it's important. Thank you.

[Ad Break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, one more quick break, and we'll be back for predictions. Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right?

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Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, prediction time. We've covered so many areas, and I predict there's going to be another photo of you naked.

Scott Galloway: Go on. You projecting? Get you out of jail?

Kara Swisher: No, I'm not projecting. I'm just worried. Out of jail, yeah.

Scott Galloway: So my prediction: I have a tech prediction and a legislation prediction. So, what a thrill: LG's handset company was closed down. It's going to be revived by a big tech platform.

Kara Swisher: Facebook.

Scott Galloway: Well, that's the gangster call here, is that Facebook buys LG's handset business. They gotta. But if it's not them... They don't listen to Tim Cook anymore. You know, the chipsets and sensors that make up a decent phone, that is not easy. And to have figured that out and figured out the supply chain around the glass and the sensors and everything, that is real IP. They're either going to sell the IP for a lot of money, but I think someone's going to come in with a monster bid and take the handset division. Because at the end of the day, we're in a gross attention war. And every screen that commands one basis point of humanity's attention is worth billions of dollars. And if someone says, "All right, we have a credible phone," LG actually has a really nice brand around design and industrial design. They make fantastic appliances. I think that IP and that supply chain is too tempting for one of these platforms or companies to not build. It might even be a dumb device, just something that streams Netflix really well. But Netflix, Disney, Facebook—the companies where the only barrier between them and a trillion dollars is the fact that they don't control the end appliance.

Kara Swisher: So it's got to be Facebook, right?

Scott Galloway: No, I don't actually think so. You know who'd be an interesting acquirer here?

Kara Swisher: Who?

Scott Galloway: Roku.

Kara Swisher: You love that Roku.

Scott Galloway: Roku is one of the most—Roku is arguably one of the two or three most innovative companies of the last 10 years. Right up there with Shopify.

Kara Swisher: Many people think so.

Scott Galloway: But a content company, if they controlled the interface, I just think—my mind spins about the potential around getting that sort of IP and supply chain technology to try and offer your own.

Kara Swisher: Nobody can output Facebook. They gotta get a phone. All this stuff around Apple and everything else. I like that one too.

Scott Galloway: The thing is, do you want to buy a Facebook phone? It didn't work last time with Home. Disaster.

Kara Swisher: What if they gave it out for free, though? What if it was an incredible camera and they gave it out for free? I don't know. We'll see. I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm saying somebody is going to pick it up. Someone will talk themselves into believing they should pick it up.

Scott Galloway: All right. Remember, we're not in a Microsoft and Nokia situation. And then just as Google bought Motorola and then shut it down. There's a graveyard of people thinking they can build a handset business, including Amazon. Which does make you appreciate Apple in terms of how it delivers that product. It's really great and impressive. Most profitable product in history. Margins of Ferrari, production volumes of Toyota. I've never seen anything like it.

Kara Swisher: Anyways, my other prediction is that, so just as Janet Yellen recognizes that the arbitrage around taxes leads to abnormal behavior with companies doing these inversions, trying to find—it's kind of a downward spiral, lowest common denominator problem that is really unhealthy for society. When Trump was elected, he immediately imposed a tax on blue states because he didn't care about them. And with SALT, basically said that state and local income taxes are no longer tax deductible. He basically said to California and New York, "I'm going to kick you in the nuts because I don't care. You're never going to vote for me. I hate you." I think Biden is going to do something similar. And that is—when we talk about the international arbitrage around taxation, an even bigger anomaly that is creating more negative externalities is the domestic arbitrage around state taxes. And that is Elon Musk is moving to Texas and basically going to take about $15 billion in tax liability away from California by relocating to Austin. There is a sucking sound out of the Northeast into Florida of anybody who sits on a large unrealized capital gain. I don't think that's sustainable. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Biden administration says, "Okay, I need to get some of these blue states." The blue states I like, specifically California and New York, aren't going to be economically sustainable if we keep letting people make money—build $500 million in unrealized gains sitting on top of a hedge fund—and they piece out to the Surf Club, which is a Four Seasons-run property in North Miami. So just as Janet Yellen is going after international tax treaties, you're going to see the Biden administration propose some sort of interstate tax treaty.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I think it will absolutely be that way because that was just a ridiculous shot, an obvious shot to the nuts by Trump. An unfair shot to the nuts. But I like the fact that states should be—and there's a negative to that. I think New York and California have to have a reckoning with unions, with bureaucrats, with the way they spend money on public infrastructure. It's just become wasteful. And there's a certain discipline in states like Texas and Florida that those deep blue states could benefit from.

Scott Galloway: Nice job on the winter storm of Texas. Give me a break. Come on. And the leaking thing in Florida. They just don't do things. They're like the Facebook of states.

Kara Swisher: Well, okay. Well, let me put it another way. Do you think Manhattan is offering a good value for an incremental 15% taxes relative to Miami?

Scott Galloway: I agree. I agree in that regard.

Kara Swisher: But the fact of the matter is—

Scott Galloway: What about New Jersey? Those states don't take care of their citizens as well.

Kara Swisher: I agree. New Jersey is worth 12% or 13% additional taxes? I agree. That is a different thing. I just don't think they're—some of these states that go on and on are the biggest takers, not Florida in this case. But when you see—I forget what state. Was Arkansas? Arkansas is a massive taker, and there's states that are diverse.

Scott Galloway: Those are Kansans. And all they do is they take and then they pass shitty laws—intolerant, shitty, cruel laws all the time.

Kara Swisher: Intolerant, cruel, shitty laws. That's not a generalization.

Scott Galloway: That's not a generalization. They are. Are you kidding? I know nothing about Arkansas legislation. If a doctor decides not to treat me, he doesn't have to because I'm gay. Fuck that guy.

Kara Swisher: The governor tried to veto it, right?

Scott Galloway: No, he didn't veto that one. He signed that one. He tried to veto the trans one. And of course, it got pushed. He knew it was going to get passed anyway. So a big courage for him. He should have—there's lots of things he could have done and didn't do.

Kara Swisher: Let's do a pivot live from Arkansas. Yes, we should. I'm not going there. I'm not going to that state.

Scott Galloway: I will say in a woke moment of wokeness, I did cancel our trip. I was going to take my youngest to the Atlanta Aquarium and I did cancel our trip.

Kara Swisher: All right then. Good for you. That'll show them.

Scott Galloway: I don't want people—there's all these great people in Atlanta. You don't want us to suffer. And I wasn't going to wear my shirt.

Kara Swisher: That's a difficult state. That's a difficult state because there's all these people who have to tolerate this bullshit legislature crap that they're doing. In any case. States get the governments they deserve.

Scott Galloway: They deserve. That is true, unfortunately.

Kara Swisher: But in the case of these, you're right. The taxes are too high. The delivery of services is not as great. There's different priorities. But in general, most of the states you're talking about are givers in this giver-taker thing. We should do a whole giver-taker thing of who does it. And the states that scream the most about "don't give people of color all this welfare" are the ones that take most of the welfare. And so in different ways. But it's the same difference. I don't think that's a tax thing. I think that's a law. I think these should be laws. But you're right. They need to stop. The thing that Trump did was entirely unfair. Just unfair. If there's a fair way to do this, that's a different story. And I think you're right. They need to equalize.

Scott Galloway: Anyways, LG's handset division will be purchased. Good ones. Facebook is the leader. I think Roku is a number two, and we're going to see an interstate tax treaty mandated at a federal level. It'll be bad for Florida and Texas because a huge source of economic growth for them is people coming down with their unrealized gains and buying fat houses and putting money into the economy. But I don't think it's sustainable. Anyways, those are my two predictions.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, we'll see how that goes. It'll be interesting to see if that sustains itself, those people moving down to Florida, et cetera. But all I know is I'm coming out to Florida and you better be—

Scott Galloway: That's right, coming to the dog pound.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, best. By the way, I need your help. Our—you know we have this great Dane puppy and she's doing great. And our rescue hound, our little Puerto Rican rescue mutt who we think is a dachshund, is all freaked out. She won't come out of her crate. I don't know if she's jealous. I don't know if she's freaked out about the discipline on the great Dane. But she's really sad. It's just weird. It's like—I don't know if she misses Zoe, where they had kind of a mother-son relationship?

Scott Galloway: Oh, that might be. You know, dogs have grief. I've had dogs my whole life. She's grieving. My gangster is grieving.

Kara Swisher: So, I don't know. That's interesting. You should consult some books. There's lots of books.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, they say put her on a leash so she feels safe and then show her a ton of affection.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, safety is very important to dogs. Safety and there's so much going on with dogs that is so interesting and complex. It's really good that you have dogs. We can't wait to meet those dogs. Amanda, as it turns out, loves the kind of great Dane you got, with the color, with the blue steel.

Scott Galloway: That's right. I sent her photos. She knew all about it. I sent her photos. I was like, "I've never heard of such a thing." I just want to tell you. Just be prepared. She's like, "That's my favorite dog." I'm like, "Really?" This is the most beautiful dog. This is the most beautiful dog you've ever seen.

Kara Swisher: All right. I let this thing sit on my chest and I just stare at it.

Scott Galloway: I see that. You sent me a lot of photos. I am obsessed with this dog.

Kara Swisher: I am excited to meet your dog who doesn't wear clothes, and I'm excited to see you. There you go.

Scott Galloway: With clothes on? Yes, exactly.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, that's the show. Not bad for 73. Tuesday. Not bad for 73.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. We're going to have a great time. I don't do it at 73. We're going to have a great time. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit your question for the podcast. The link is also in our show notes. Scott, please read us out. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Ernie Andrew Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Hannah Rosen and Drew Burrows. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you liked our show, please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, I hope you and your family have a wonderful weekend.

Kara Swisher: Well, thank you, and keep your pants on.