Whitney Wolfe Herd at Code 2023

Announcer: AI agents are getting pretty impressive. You might not even realize you're listening to one right now. We work 24-7 to resolve customer inquiries. No hold music, no canned answers, no frustration. Visit sierra.ai to learn more.

Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. We have another bonus episode for you from the Code Conference today. Julia Boorstin and founder and CEO of Bumble, Whitney Wolfe Herd, talk about the power of AI and whether it could play the role of a digital matchmaker. Enjoy the episode.

Julia Boorstin: I'm really excited about this next interview. Whitney Wolfe Herd is the CEO of Bumble, Inc. Just so you know, that's partially Bumble, but also a number of other companies, including Badoo, Fruits, and a recently acquired app called Official. Now, she was an original co-founder of Tinder. She turned dating on its head by, of course, reversing who has to make the first move on Bumble—Women Make the First Move. Now, just to put this all in context, I first interviewed Whitney in spring of 2015. She had just launched Bumble a couple months earlier in 2014. We were standing on the sidewalk in Austin at South by Southwest. She was just trying to get this new app off the ground, and she's certainly come quite a long way since then. When she took Bumble public, she was the youngest female CEO to take a company public. I also had the opportunity to interview her for my book, When Women Lead. In the book, I talked a lot about her efforts to reform the industry and push through regulation. And copies of the book are in the lounge over there. So if you don't have it yet, I suggest you check it out. But today, we're not going to be talking about regulatory change. But starting off talking about AI, there's a lot to talk about in the dating space. So please welcome Bumble CEO, Whitney Wolfe Herd. Whitney, thank you so much for being here today.

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Thank you, Julia. It's great to be here.

Julia Boorstin: There's so much going on in your world of digital dating, but we've got to start off with AI. There was a presentation earlier today of an AI dating game, but you're already integrating AI into what's happening at Bumble. Tell us a little bit about your vision for AI.

Whitney Wolfe Herd: I think AI has been a big piece of our business for years. Our matching algorithms are AI-driven. This is machine learning. This is how we understand relevance and compatibility. But what's really exciting beyond the safety measures we've already powered with AI and machine learning is the future of AI. I would really think about AI as a supercharger to love and relationships. We are not intending on replacing humans with bots. We are not intending for people to fall in love with a digital boyfriend or girlfriend. What we will do, however, is lead with the customer's pain points and reducing friction. If it's a woman who says, "I just don't have time for this," or, "I'm going out on these dates and this person's actually not compatible," how can we leverage AI to better detect relevance and supercharge compatibility? How can we build confidence? Dating confidence is a huge issue. A lot of people don't join dating apps because they're scared they'll be bad at dating. We can leverage AI to train people to interact in a way that makes them feel positive so they can then get to the human. The second bucket is safety and moderation. Bumble has always been about instilling a safer ecosystem. How can we put guardrails in place to get people to behave in a kinder, more accountable way? AI is the next horizon for this. We're being intentional about the ethics of how we engage with AI, with women at the forefront. The third piece is innovation. There are so many ways to supercharge relationships with things that haven't been built yet. That's where I'm spending a lot of my energy and time. I'm quite obsessed with AI at the moment.

Julia Boorstin: AI is certainly the hot topic. Much of your business is about getting people to use the app, but then getting them off the app. How are you using AI to transition to real-life experiences?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Our guiding principle is to go online to get offline in the quickest, safest way possible with the most relevance. We're not in the business of keeping you in your phone forever. Technology has been phenomenal, but it's led to a very isolated, lonely world. The youth are suffering due to isolation and disconnection. Everything we do is about getting you online so you can match with people outside your immediate circle and then get offline. We're obsessed with reducing the match-to-meet portion. How do we get away from just chat? We don't want to keep you in a chat room forever. Relevance is key. How can we leverage AI to detect relevance and supercharge compatibility?

Julia Boorstin: How would an AI dating coach work? Could you have a personal matchmaker bot?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Something that's not out of the realm of possibility is a personal matchmaker bot. You could have a Julia bot. It's your personal matchmaker, your personal dating coach. You tell it everything you want it to know—non-negotiables, value sets, what you want to do. It goes out and talks to other matchmakers, digital matchmakers. Only if they trigger compatibility does it bring it back to the human. Instead of swiping and matching with dozens, you only talk to three qualified individuals. We can leverage AI to supercharge compatibility. Not even getting into image recognition—someone likes the same restaurants or brands as you. We can leverage AI to set you up on a date, get you the reservation. The most important piece is we still want to be in the same room together. Nothing will ever replace this.

Announcer: Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique—fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say. We're free to report the whole picture. Read, watch, and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.

Julia Boorstin: I mentioned earlier that you pushed for regulation around images being sent on dating apps. What kind of regulation is necessary around AI in this arena? Does there need to be regulation to ensure people aren't manipulated into falling in love with a bot?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Yes, there needs to be regulation. It's a unanimous agreement amongst the AI community. We're working on our own set of terms and conditions for how we intend to use AI. Starting with a very intentional point, I think this is imperative for every founder and company leader to know why they're using AI. You can't just do AI because it's trendy. For us, it's about enhancing the customer experience and safety. We cannot let people be misled by AI-generated images. We're involved in broader AI policy discussions. Bumble has always been pro-women and pro-safety digitally. We've passed laws and are working on legislation. AI will definitely be top of mind there.

Julia Boorstin: I want to shift gears to your business. Tinder's growth was 6% in Q2, while Bumble had 23%. Is this a broader industry issue or due to economic uncertainty?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: We don't directly compare ourselves to Tinder. Our mandate from day one was to build a relationship economy. We have BFF and other platforms for connection beyond love. We still think there's huge TAM. When you look at the global base of single people, we haven't penetrated that to any degree. Growth is a derivative of building for the customer, listening to them, and working backwards from their struggles. We think there's still huge growth to be had globally. AI will supercharge us in the long run.

Julia Boorstin: Is a dating service something people will pay for, especially if the economy doesn't have a soft landing?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: The price for love offline is expensive. Our monthly subscription is the cost of two drinks at a bar. People still date regardless of economic downturns. Dating is at the foundation of humanity. Gen Z spends thousands on subscriptions for community and connection. They're lonely. Our subscription model is healthy, and we're exploring higher tiers. Women say, "I don't have time to swipe. Can Bumble just do it for me? I'll pay whatever."

Julia Boorstin: Tinder announced a $500/month plan. What's your current highest tier?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: We haven't announced yet, but we're exploring AI-supercharged, curated, premium offerings. We're also exploring IRL demand for Bumble offline.

Julia Boorstin: As people started getting out more post-pandemic, do you see people choosing between dating apps and real-life meetings?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: They do both. Being back in the real world means more Bumble dates, success stories, marriages, babies. You can't compare dating apps and real-world dating. It's a dual model. The dating world being turned back on offline benefits us.

Julia Boorstin: Let's talk about Bumble BFF and Bumble Biz. What's the potential, and why haven't they taken off?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Bumble BFF is incredible for ending loneliness. It's doing quite well. We're excited but still learning. Dating is our first priority. Bumble Biz is a big opportunity in professional connections. We're focused on love and friendship right now, but we have a multi-decade vision.

Announcer: Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn. LinkedIn Ads lets you target professionals by job title, industry, and more. Get $100 credit on your next campaign at linkedin.com/pivotpod.

Julia Boorstin: You acquired an app called Official for people in relationships. What's the opportunity there?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Official is a companion for relationship health. It's helping you have a more communicative, open, transparent relationship. Those first months are critical. We want to stay with you through your entire journey. Our mission is to create a world where relationships are healthy and equitable through kind connections.

Julia Boorstin: Do you see people converting from Bumble to Official?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Yes. They delete their dating app and move to Official. Word of mouth is also a funnel. The majority of our revenue is subscription-based. We see an opportunity in advertising and partnerships, but our subscription model is healthy. We don't think we've nearly reached its potential.

Julia Boorstin: You mentioned BFF as a community-driven approach. Could you create a safe forum for advice on relationships?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Yes. We'll see a community-driven approach to the relationship journey. BFF is driven by the need for community around love. We can't love in silos. We need friends. We'll address breakups, red flags, and more.

Audience Member: Pam Dillon: Have you thought about connecting people based on preferences in wine and spirits?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Yes. We're exploring how people want to connect over food, beverages, and specific interests. It's an interesting opportunity for advertising. We don't want to send two people to a bar if one doesn't want to go. These are signals of relevance we're exploring.

Audience Member: Ben: Two out of three people meet their significant others on dating apps. What are the knock-on effects of this societal change?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: It's empowerment. Historically, people were stuck with who they were assigned to. Now they have more choice. It's been beneficial, especially for women. We've heard stories of people who lived in the same building but took different paths. Dating apps have given us access to people we were destined to meet but otherwise would have missed.

Audience Member: Emily Sherworth: I met my husband on Bumble. Thank you.

Whitney Wolfe Herd: Thank you. That's amazing.

Audience Member: Roblox's CEO talked about people meeting and dating in Roblox. Is that a reality?

Whitney Wolfe Herd: I hope not. I think people need to meet in real life. I'm not a fan of the metaverse. We're doing things differently. I believe in getting humans to look each other in the eye.

Kara Swisher: Whitney Wolfe Herd, thank you so much for joining us today. To get on the Code 2024 waitlist, visit voxmediaevents.com/code2024.