--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Welcome, everyone, to the Sunday Special. I'm Gilbert Cruz. I'm excited because today we're talking about one of my secret favorite things. It's not movies or books or TV, all of which, honestly, are some of my favorite things in the world. Instead, we are talking about amusement parks. All year round, Americans travel to Orlando and Los Angeles and Anaheim to go to some of the most famous theme parks around. And those who don't go there are likely going somewhere close to home, like the Six Flags that I used to go to in New Jersey.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: With me today to talk about amusement parks across America is Brooks Barnes, who writes about Hollywood for The Times. He's visited all 14 Disney theme parks around the world. And he also traveled with a carnival when he was younger, which is totally normal. No big deal. I have so many questions about it. Welcome, Brooks.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Hello.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Across from me is Mikado Murphy. Officially, he is a movie editor here. Unofficially, he is the Times roller coaster correspondent. He has published more pieces about roller coasters than any other writer in Times history. I have not fact checked that, but it has to be true. Welcome, Mikado.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Hey, Gilbert.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Okay, Brooks, first things first, we have to get this out of the way. We need to talk about this. You grew up in a traveling carnival.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Yes.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Mikado's rolling his eyes, not the old carnival stories, not rolling that out again.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Yes, I was not in a carnival. I was in an attraction myself. But my parents made a living by selling cotton candy and corn dogs. And we traveled with a carnival called the Mighty Thomas Carnival.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Okay. Through Canada, the Midwest, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, California. So I feel at home in these chaotic manufactured environments.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: How many years did you do that for?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: From the time I was born to the last season I worked for them was the summer after my freshman year in college.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Oh, my God. That's your entire childhood.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yeah. So they sold cotton candy, but they didn't operate rides or anything. No rides.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Right. But you sort of were around the people who operated rides, games. The zipper, the Himalaya, you know.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I worked for them. I worked in the stands starting at a maybe younger age than I should disclose.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Yeah. I don't get the impression there are a lot of like, you know, the law is a little fuzzy.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: The law is a little fuzzy.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Yeah. But when I was younger, they worked, you know, nonstop. And I had free reign of the carnival. So I had my little rounds. I would make friends with the Slim who ran the Ferris wheel and Chief who ran the merry-go-round. And I'd ride the Sea Dragon over and over and over again.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And, you know, I kind of did my thing. And yet, growing up in that environment did not, you know, tire you out from wanting to experience.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: It turns out that when carnies have a vacation, they go to Disneyland.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Is that true?
--:-- Brooks Barnes: That is true.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Also, can we say carnies? Is that like an acceptable term?
--:-- Brooks Barnes: I feel like I'm, you know, I can. Yes, of course.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So you went to Disneyland and you were like, wow, this is a real amusement park.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Yeah, because at a carnival, you know, everything packs up. And amusement parks were always fascinating to me in how organized it all was, right? And permanent.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But also, it's just a chaotic environment, one that as an adult now, I feel very comfortable in.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: You know, the smell of the popcorn, the music, the crying babies.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Brooks, you totally lived my childhood dream.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: I couldn't... I left out all of the trauma.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I'm sure, I'm sure. But yes, I couldn't imagine anything cooler than getting to work at a carnival all the time.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But I grew up in a family that was very carnival-like, but we did not travel in a carnival.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Nice. So what was your relationship with amusement parks when you were a kid? And was it like a family thing or was it just your thing?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: [chuckles]
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: With my family, I did come from a family of thrill seekers. And I grew up in Oklahoma, but we didn't have an amusement park in Oklahoma when I was growing up. Not a big one.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: And so my family would travel each summer to Fort Worth. We had some cousins down there and we would go to Six Flags Over Texas during the summer.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So that was kind of my big introduction to theme parks.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: I grew up in New York and we had something, Rye Playland, which is a little theme park north of the Bronx where I grew up.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: On the boardwalk is where Zoltar, the little thing that makes Tom Hanks big and small in the movie Big, was located.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: And I went once to Disney when I was 10 years old. It was the only real vacation we ever took when I was a kid.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And it was the biggest moment of my young life. And I've been obsessed with recapturing that excitement ever since.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: I don't think I'll ever get there, but... Disney counts on that, believe me.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Disney counts on that. Oh, yeah. Now that I have a child, I and my family's wallet is very aware of how much they count on it.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: It's just shocking how expensive it is.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And yet it still remains sort of like this rite of passage for American families.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Did either of you, was Disney a thing for you? The idea of Disney, at least, when you were growing up?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: The idea of Disney was definitely a thing for me.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You know, growing up, I always had, like, fantasies and dreams of Disneyland just because there were all of these, like, distinct worlds. Frontierland, Fantasyland.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: And when I was growing up, because I didn't get to go to all of these places, I actually created a theme park myself.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I had this park that was called... Like, In Your Mind? I created In My Mind, and then I drew it all out.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: So the park was called Fun World. Great name. Can't wait to go.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: The founder of the park was H.G. Fun. Okay. So this is all very, a lot of Disney theft here.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: But I do recall, like, I created the park map, all of the rides, and then I drew out a number of the rides in the park, too.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: That's amazing. Yeah, that was a part of my childhood because I didn't get to travel to parks as much.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: I feel like now they have video games like Theme Park Simulator, Roller Coaster Tycoon, and that you were doing it before all of that, just with pen and paper.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I was doing Analog Roller Coaster Tycoon. My version of you uh drawing your theme park was in anticipation of our trip to Disney which also coincided with the opening of Universal Studios Florida was in 1990 so I get to see some of those early rides that no longer exist.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: The Jaws ride, the Jaws ride like the Alfred Hitchcock Experience Murder She Wrote there's just a bunch of stuff that would that are so corny now there was a murder
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There was a Bernie Schrote theatrical experience. Oh, my goodness.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It was one of the first things you saw on the main street as you were walking in through Universal Studios.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: You would sit down, and they would talk to you about, like, Foley sound and, you know, the mechanics. The click of her heels on that.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yeah, and movie making and stuff like that.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Anyway, before we went, I was obsessed with making sure that we got to every ride in the most efficient way possible.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: So my version of drawing a theme park was charting out a course throughout all of Disney World. Go to Tomorrowland first, go to Spaceland, do all that stuff that now people do on very intense websites.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And it was an odd combination of excitement for a theme park and also like real spreadsheet nonsense that a 10-year-old would do.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And I feel like it has led to where I am today in my life where everything needs to be as efficient as possible.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Well, visiting a park now tends to involve spreadsheet nonsense, to be honest.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Gilbert, that is exactly how I go to parks now. It is very much... Yes! My brother-in-arms! Yes, what you were doing when you were a kid is the exact same thing that I do now.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So, it feels like we're kind of at an important moment for a theme park business, here in America at least. Big thing happened this summer. Finally happened after I feel like a year of commercials that I was seeing on TV. Universal Studios opened up its new park in Orlando. Epic Universe.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So I'm wondering, first of all, what the heck is Epic Universe? And why is it a big deal for Universal?
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Sure. So Epic Universe, they spent at least $7 billion to build it. $7 billion? Is that normal? That's normal. That's conservative. You know, that's the emitted amount.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And it's a new park near across the interstate freeway from the older Universal Studios complex, which is two parks and a water park.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Do we count water parks as theme parks?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I do. We definitely count water parks as theme parks.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Okay. The reason Epic is such a big deal is that it's investment. It's uh Universal trying to be more Disney the vast majority families go to Disney World and universal is an added day or a day and a half universal wants to flip that you come to universal and you do an added day at Disney um and so it's a big deal for universal and its evolution but it's also a big deal in terms of igniting it sounds cliche because it's true theme park war Disney's pouring money into Disney World to remain competitive.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And Universal is, Epic is sort of reflective of their broader business at Universal. They're building a new park in the UK. They're building a kids' park in Texas. They're expanding in California.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so Disney, even though it acts like it doesn't even notice Universal, why would we think about them? It keenly notices them so so and what are the the the sort of different parts of of uh epic universe because it has a several lands and each of them is sort of organized around a movie or piece of intellectual property ip yes what are they um there's the isle of burke which is how to train your dragon there is the main part which i think they call celestial park which is a the a giant roller coaster and dancing fountains and that sort of thing.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I'm sure Mikado has opinions about the roller coaster, which is currently closed because there is a mishap on it.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: And then the other areas are Nintendo which is sort of a casino for five I've been very curious about Super Nintendo World or whatever it's called, but I also feel like it might be for people much, much younger than me.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I'm exaggerating, but it's, it's, it was more than I could take. You know, there's like coins, uh, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There's a world for Harry Potter, of course. Universal has Harry Potter in most of its parks. And what's the other one? The other one's Dark Universe. Dark Universe, yes. Which is classic monsters like Dracula and Frankenstein.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And that actually has one of the best rides in the whole park, right? Yeah, Monsters Unleashed. That one is really, really fun.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And you get to meet a lot of the Universal monsters on the ride. You rode all the rides, and you liked the family coaster, which doesn't do any loops or, you know, and that surprised me because you're Mr. Adrenaline.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: I do love adrenaline, but I also really love theming. And that ride, Hiccup's Wing Gliders, is a wonderfully themed ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It's so great if you're, well, whether or not you're into How to Train Your Dragon, it's just a really fun experience. And you get to see Toothless on the ride and Toothless presses his little paw down to launch you into the coaster.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And it's just super fun. There's a lot of mist. You're getting such a heart, Mikado. Wow. That's adorable.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I mean, it's hard to make a themed roller coaster. Usually what you're just trying to do is like get people up and down hills and lots of thrills and lots of bumps and lots of curves and all kinds of like fun things.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But it's hard to tell a story on a ride while you're also moving down a track. And so I'm always impressed when a ride is able to do that.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so that's why I like Hiccup's wing gliders the most. I do really love Stardust Racers, the roller coaster that's in Celestial Park.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And it is a wonderful, super thrilling experience. But there's just something about mist on a ride. They like mist in that park. Yes.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Mist, like... Like wet, yes, wet mist. Not a fan?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: No, I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan. The more mist, the better.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There's a ton of mist at Epic Universe. They use it everywhere. It's hot. It's hot down there.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: During the summer, you want more of that mist, trust me.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But I also like a rollercoaster track that moves next to the water and moves close to the ground and all of these things that you're able to see while you're on the ride and experience.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So they did a really great job with Hiccup's wing gliders, and that's one of the big reasons I like it more than the much more thrilling ride in the park.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Brooks, I want to back up to something you mentioned before, which is that Stardust Racers, this coaster, it's currently closed, and it's closed because of a tragic incident that recently happened on that ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Can you talk a little bit about what happened?
--:-- Brooks Barnes: You know, we're here. We're talking about all the ways that theme parks can be fun and exciting. And I just wonder how a place like Epic Universal or any theme or amusement park sort of thinks through the effect that something like this has on the people that are planning to go there.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And the people that work there. People that work there.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: Yeah. A man died on that coaster, and there have been, you know, it's gotten pretty icky pretty quickly.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Other people have come forward to say they, you know, felt unsafe on that attraction.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so they'll do an investigation and it's sort of, you know, you want to feel safe. And that just being in the news infects the feeling everywhere.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It takes you out of this is a joyful, happy, I don't have to worry about the real world place. And suddenly you do.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Right. Yeah. I mean, part of the appeal of roller coasters, I think, to me and to some is a feeling of controlled danger.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You want it to feel slightly dangerous, but it also has to feel safe. Right.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So let's turn to something else. The both of you have talked about theming which you know once you say it immediately makes sense in relation to amusement parks and theme parks in particular but I i would like to ask a little bit more you know disney has always been the disney theme that's sort of like built in from the ground up um but it feels like in uh other amusement parks that the that the focus on ip has gotten more intense in recent years.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Brooks, do you feel like that matches just the the general curve of how Hollywood in particular has thought about what they have, what we can make money off, how we can squeeze every dime out of these things that we own.
--:-- Brooks Barnes: You know, how important is the, for these big parts, the IP-ification?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It's increasingly the entire strategy. You know, it used to be that Disneyland, Disney parks had, you know, the rides that were quirky and weird and one-offs. And that increasingly is not the case anymore.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And that's because they've realized that younger audiences in particular care more about, you know, rides that they know.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: The classic example or biggest example is probably the Tower of Terror at Disneyland was Twilight Zone themed.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And Disney had to pay rights to Twilight Zone, which it didn't own. And they didn't like doing that.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And they realized that kids had no idea what the Twilight Zone was. Tragedy. Tragedy.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so Disney rethemed it around Marvel, Guardians of the Galaxy. And the attraction has become like twice as popular since then.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So but at Disney World, they did keep the Twilight Zone Tower. They can't use the Marvel superheroes in Florida because Universal has those rights. That's why.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Oh, my God. I know. But yeah, I mean, increasingly, these big media companies, mostly Universal, NBC Universal and Disney, have had enormous struggles in their core businesses of movies and television as we've all moved to streaming.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Right. And theme parks have become their most reliable growth business.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: In 2024, Disney and Universal had a combined $10 billion in profit from their theme park divisions. A decade earlier, it was $2 billion.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So if you're a shareholder looking at growth in various businesses, that's something where you want to put more money.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And the companies are doing that and that's a way to expand the value of movies.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: One of the reasons that Universal sold Wicked so hard, right, Wicked, Wicked, Wicked, was to make the movie a success, but also, you know, they haven't announced anything, but you can bet there will be a Wicked land.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yeah, it'll be an Emerald City corner of one of their parks.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Just to be clear, I am offended that Twilight Zone is no longer intellectual property that means anything to the kids.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: For all the kids listening, you need to watch some New Year's Eve Twilight Zone marathons.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I now go to the parks primarily for my job, right? I'm usually reporting when I'm in them.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But I'm definitely, as a fan, I'm definitely someone who wants to go to have the nostalgia button pushed, whether it's a ride I rode as a kid still being that same ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You know, the Tiki Room at Disneyland is popular with no one except me. It's popular. Hey, Tiki, Tiki, Tiki, Tiki, Tiki Room.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You know, I got it in my head. They would love, I think, to use that space for something else. But, yeah, it is sort of distressing as an older person when you see some of the classic stuff, you know, fading away.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I feel like I still have nostalgia for theme parks that I went to when I was younger, amusement parks.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But now the nostalgia is not for the experience. The nostalgia is for the movie that you watch.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: The nostalgia is for the Finding Nemo submarine, not the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea submarine.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Right. Although maybe in the past, I mean, there was 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea movie.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So it could have been the same, but it's heightened is the point.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Right. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk roller coasters.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So, Mikado, we're going to get into it now. Are you ready? Let's get into it.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I know you are the roller coaster meister. How many roller coasters have you been on?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Yeah, it's a website called Coaster Count. Coaster Count. Yes. Okay.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: We are doing free ads, apparently. And you can go on there and it has all the parks listed and all of the rides that have ever been in that park.
--:-- Mikado Murphy: I started using it long after I started riding things. That's why I can't remember if I rode certain things at certain parks.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So I don't have a completely accurate count at the moment.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I would say, generally speaking, more than 200.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: More than 200. Yes. That would put you probably in like the top 5% of people who have ridden roller coasters, I would imagine.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I would imagine so, yeah.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I feel like every year I hear about some trip or another that you took to go ride roller coasters.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I think, correct me if I'm wrong, this year you went to Europe?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Yeah, yeah, you're right about that.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: What are the stats on that?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: We spent a week in Europe. It was one week, seven parks, four countries, 100 rides.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: That's a great movie poster tagline right there.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I'm just going to do a lot of fanny pack holding on that trip.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I don't want my hair messed up. I don't want to get wet. I don't want to feel sick.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You know, I'm happy to sort of stand and watch.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: They weren't all roller coasters, so there are things that you could have ridden as well, Brooks.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: We also do like a good log flume and a river rapids ride and what enthusiasts call a dark ride, which is basically an indoor ride, like an indoor roller coaster or an indoor boat ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So you have to tell me, it would be journalistic malpractice not to ask you in this chair, what are some of your favorite roller coasters?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Well, I'm happy to talk about it. So, one of my absolute favorites, it's a ride at Magic Mountain that is now called Twisted Colossus.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So they took the old wooden Colossus ride and this company called Rocky Mountain Construction one of the big things that they do is go and take old wooden coasters and retrofit them with these customized steel tracks that they make.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so they did that with the old Colossus and created this new ride, Twisted Colossus.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And now it's this amazing racing coaster where—
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So it's sort of two cars, you can see each other?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Two cars that can see each other.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There's one element on it that's called a high five where the track, both tracks go sideways, right?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so you go through that part of the track sideways.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So, yeah, that—
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It blew my mind the first time I rode it. And I just, even to this day, like, I'm super thrilled by that roller coaster.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And then another one that actually just became a very recent favorite is a ride that I just rode this year.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It's at this park in Belgium called Plopsaland. Plopsaland?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Plopsaland. Okay. Yes.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yes. It sort of competes with Schlitterbahn in Texas for the most awkwardly named theme park.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Um, Plopsaland is this really fun park in Belgium, and they did just put in this incredible roller coaster called The Ride to Happiness.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And... In case it's not subtle. Yeah. Hey, it's kind of one of the great roller coaster ride names, I think, actually.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But it is a spinning launch coaster. So the seats on the ride actually rotate and then the ride also launches you into these hills and into loops and everything.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But one of the cool things is right out of the gate the train does an immediate inversion they have a corkscrew or like a twist right at the beginning of the ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so while you're spinning, you also do this upside down part and then you go off into the launch.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So there's a lot going on. If you like a lot of combinations of thrills, this ride just packs them in.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You know, when we talk about the limits of human ingenuity and we talk about going to space and we talk about all the things that we haven't done yet, it's just I feel like it's all in roller coaster design here.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Like that's where all the great creativity is going.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I love how deep you go, Mikado. You know, the manufacturers, you know, the advancements in track technology.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You look at like schematics before the roller coaster is out. How are you tracking the construction of these things beforehand?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Oh, definitely. I mean, when Epic Universe was being built, there were a lot of channels out there.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There was a YouTube channel called Theme Park Stop that was tracking the building of Epic Universe.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And they would go and look at permits to sort of say, it looks like this ride is probably going to be this and this is where it's going to be.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And I was following that stuff for a year, at least a year before that park opened.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Um, but yes, I do track the manufacturers and watch a lot of the on-ride videos, which are cool, but they don't really capture, like, the full experience of what your body goes through on a ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I mean, you can go and watch the Ride to Happiness on-ride video, but it is not going to be anything like your body twisting and spinning and going upside down.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yeah. I think there are lots of people, Mikado, who, you know, for physical reasons, whatever, can't get on roller coasters.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There are people who are also afraid to get on roller coasters and who look at someone like you, maybe me, maybe Brooks is this person, and says, why would you do this?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Why would you wait online for 45 minutes to feel scared or to feel these feelings? What is the appeal of roller coasters for you?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: Well, one of the things I really like about it is that it's a controlled thrill.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Like, I do like thrills, but I don't like all thrills. I'm not into, say, bungee jumping or skydiving, which feels a little bit scarier to me.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Because if I'm bungee jumping, it's just me. And so if something goes wrong, I'm the only person paying for it.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But the parks do their absolute best to make sure that these rides are safe and secure.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And I feel pretty confident of that most of the time that I'm riding a roller coaster.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But it's still taking me to do something that I otherwise just wouldn't be able to do, taking me up a giant hill and then dropping me down and upside down and into loops and everything.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So that's the big appeal to me, this controlled way to have a little bit of chaos in my life.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I could ask you a question or you could just respond to it.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Well, so Brooks, why don't you like that?
--:-- Brooks Barnes: I used to like roller coasters. But I guess my fear or hesitation goes back to the Carnival, to be honest.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I could ride any ride I wanted, my parents said, but I could never ride the Zyklon, which was a roller coaster on the Carnival, because my parents considered that unsafe.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And so there's probably, you know, some... Did you see things? Did you see things as a traveling carnival?
--:-- Brooks Barnes: For sure, yes. Yeah, that makes you... You know, this was the 80s and a traveling carnival and inspections weren't what they are today.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I guess, you know, there's lingering trepidation around some of this.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I also just think, you know, I do not think this is fun.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And I'm glad I'm excited to be doing something I could never do otherwise.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I only am thinking humans were not made to do this. Humans were not made to do this.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: When I went to report on Epic Universe, the first ride the chairman of Universal Parks wanted to take me on was that big roller coaster.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And you did it. I did it, and I was somewhat embarrassed to let out a scream next to the Universal Chairman as in my New York Times costume, you know.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Then it worked. What you're telling us is that the ride worked for you. And I'm here to tell the tale.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Mikado, what is the feeling that you're looking for? Part of the reason that I go on roller coasters, it is that controlled chaos or that controlled fear.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Very often on a roller coaster or other rides that go very high, it is not a lie when I say I think I am going to die.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But it is that chasing of an excitement that you just cannot get when you are living your normal life.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: That is what I am looking for.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yeah, I would say that that feeling of turbulence on the airplane, that moment where your stomach drops, that's what I'm looking for.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I just. This is a turbulence guy over here. I'm holding on to the arms of my chair right now. This is making me very uncomfortable.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I love turbulence on an airplane, but. You know what? So do I.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: There we go. Yeah, I just, I want that thrilling stomach dropping feeling. That's the big thing that I'm chasing.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: So I do like big drops more than I like inversions. Inversions are cool. Loops loops yeah um it's cool to go upside down and I couldn't tell you how many times I've gone upside down that's as that's not as fun to me as that drop feeling yeah um it's interesting when I think back on the rides that I really loved when I was a kid I i still think i have the most nostalgia for those uh story-based rides that they they didn't have any big thrills the type of big throws that you're talking about, Mikado.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: The Haunted Mansion, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Peter Pan, these rides that would just seem so boring to kids today.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: To me, they were, they remain just magical.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: That's actually a good point of how they're changing, actually, because we love those rides and they're still beloved, right?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But increasingly, they're building not just it's not just about ip but it's how they're constructing rides which are to be more interactive like you're in a video game you have to you're supposed to play against other players and that's all because younger guests don't get as excited you know yeah watching sitting in a boat and it's a small world you know being amazed at the little robotic figures used to blow you away, blow kids away, doesn't really do the same.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yeah. There is a, I went to Universal Studios in Hollywood and there's, as there is in Orlando, there's a little Harry Potter corner and there's a ride there that is as much about the screens that are around you, like you're moving around and you're hanging and then you're moving around to different parts of a giant screen and there's sort of fire effects and all this stuff.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And yeah, it's like the interactivity of it, the moviness of it almost. In both of the Nintendo parks, I believe there's like a Mario Kart ride that also involves like a gamification of the ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: You're not just riding the ride, you're also doing other things. Is it virtual reality or augmented reality?
--:-- Mikado Murphy: It's augmented reality. You have these visors that you put on and showing in the visors are things that you're shooting at while you're also on the ride.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I don't want to do this either, by the way. I don't want to do that either.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I don't want to play a game while I'm on a ride. Like, give me a ride that's interesting enough for me to just experience it without having to also, like, shoot at things to have enjoyment with it.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Look at these three middle-aged men here talking about the way things used to be.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: This is great. By the way, can I just make a point that the way things used to be, it used to be affordable.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Okay. The costs have gone. I mean, it was like bring the deed to your house. If you have a, there was that guy who went viral this summer for posting the receipt of his family of five to the Disney princess breakfast.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: It was like $938 or something for five people. And, you know, you're like, how can that be?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Well, each person costs roughly $150 plus tax and tip. And, you know, it's a lot.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I was curious looking up, you know, Disney gets a lot of the attention for the prices because it's the biggest.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: I think it has 140 million turnstile clicks a year worldwide and Universal has like 60 So it dwarfs everybody else So it fairly gets more attention or scrutiny for costs
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: But Six Flags Magic Mountain a fast pass there costs, for a Saturday, this Saturday, costs between $140 and $260 per person on top of admission.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Right? Yeah. I can't afford that.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: That is, then you'll be waiting in line, I guess.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Look, I think we have acknowledged, and most families who ever consider going to Disney World in particular know that it is a bank breaker. You know, it is quite expensive.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Do either of you have any recommendations for people who want to go to a great amusement park but don't want to have to, you know, sell a kidney in order to get there?
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: Yes. I found this one park in Pennsylvania called Knoebels, which is just... I love that park. It is an amazing park.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And it was just wondrous the whole time I was there. One of the great things about it is that it's kind of tucked away in the woods, but the parking is free.
--:-- Gilbert Cruz: And then also it's free to get into the park. And then you just buy
