--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Hi, it's Lulu. Before we get to today's show, I wanted to fill you in on something new and exciting from New York Times Audio, subscriber-only episodes.
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--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: It's our way of saying thank you to the people whose support makes our journalism possible. So how can you get all this extra stuff? You can subscribe to New York Times Audio. It will get you access to all of this new subscriber-only content, plus the full archives of every single show we make, including ours. And if you're already an eligible New York Times subscriber, you'll get this automatically as part of your subscription.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: So whether you're a longtime subscriber or just about to become one, thank you. And most of all, thank you for listening to our show. If you want to learn more, you can go to nytimes.com slash podcasts or subscribe directly on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Now, on to our show. From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Back in June, Senator Alex Padilla of California found himself at the center of a defining moment in President Trump's second term. He tried to ask a question at a press conference given by Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, when he was grabbed, hustled out of the room, forced to the ground, and handcuffed.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Hands up, hands up. I'm Senator Alex Padilla. I have questions for the secretary. That violent removal of a United States senator made headlines all around the world. It also raised Padilla's profile, who at that point was not really a nationally known figure.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Padilla became a senator in 2021 when he was appointed by Governor Gavin Newsom to replace Kamala Harris, making him the first Latino to hold that office in the history of the state. The son of Mexican immigrants who worked low-wage jobs, Padilla rose to the ranks of California politics and is now in his second term.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: As debates over free speech, immigration, states' rights, redistricting, just to name a few, are roiling America, California has become ground zero for the fight over the future of this country. I sat down with Padilla in his Senate office on Monday before the government shut down to talk about all of it. But also I asked him if he's considering a run for California governor next year.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Here's my conversation with Senator Alex Padilla.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Senator Padilla, thank you so much for joining the interview. I really appreciate your time today.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Thank you for inviting me. Happy to be here.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I wanted to talk to you because California obviously is at the center of so much right now in our current conversation. Immigration, state power, redistricting. I'll also add, you know, this is a very tense time, I think, for Democrats across the country.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I'd like to start, though, with a moment that I think surprised a lot of people who know you very well because you're not exactly known as a rabble rouser. On June 12th, you were briefly handcuffed after trying to ask a question to Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, at a press conference she was giving in L.A.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: The context was this was during significant protests against ICE in the city. Can you take me back to that moment? Why did you interrupt her remarks? What was going on?
--:-- Alex Padilla: Yeah. Well, there was a—never would I have imagined that that would have happened, that that would be a response to a question, especially to a senator trying to ask a question.
--:-- Alex Padilla: The moment in Los Angeles was the militarization of the city of Los Angeles without a clear sort of mission, defined objective, et cetera, or justification that had been communicated to Congress, let alone the public.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And so after numerous attempts to try to obtain that information here in Congress, in committee hearings, via formal inquiries, with no response, I finally had a scheduled briefing, which took place in a federal building.
--:-- Alex Padilla: That's why I was in the building to begin with. So I think that's important for people to understand.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And as I was waiting in the conference room for the folks who were going to brief me, we learned that Secretary Noem was about to have a press conference down the hall.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And my briefing was now delayed. And so I asked if I could listen in while we were waiting, see if there was any new information that would be provided.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And when Secretary Noem says that the mission was to liberate the people of Los Angeles, to liberate the people of California from their duly elected leaders, I felt compelled to speak up and to try to ask some specific questions.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But before I can get a few words out, I mean, you saw what the reaction was. And so, for me, it was important for a couple of reasons.
--:-- Alex Padilla: One was not just what didn't or didn't happen during that press conference, because surprise, surprise, the administration immediately tried to put out lies and disinformation that I had not introduced myself or identified myself, that I embarked in, et cetera.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Nothing could be further from the truth. But I think more fundamentally, the way the Trump administration had gone about militarizing the city of Los Angeles laid the groundwork for being able to do that anywhere in the country on any issue, right?
--:-- Alex Padilla: And now here we are months later looking back at their numerous, numerous efforts trying to quelch dissent. They don't like anybody who disagrees with what they're trying to do.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But Los Angeles was sort of the first domino to fall, if you will.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: So the secretary and you talked afterwards, what was that conversation like? I mean, did she apologize?
--:-- Alex Padilla: No apology, but honestly, not surprised, just given how this administration tends to carry itself.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I mean, did she apologize?
--:-- Alex Padilla: No apology, but honestly, not surprised, just given how this administration tends to carry itself.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I wish I could say it was more substantive or more constructive. She finally did say it was, well, I understand you're asking for more information. What's your question?
--:-- Alex Padilla: And among the questions that we had is for all their talk about dangerous violent criminals, If all this administration was doing was targeting, arresting, and even deporting dangerous violent criminals, there would be no debate.
--:-- Alex Padilla: There would be no discussion because there would be no disagreement. But we had been hearing anecdotally up until that point that that was far from the case of what was happening on the ground, what was happening in the streets of Southern California.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Because we kept hearing story after story of people with no violent criminal history being rounded up.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And so I wanted to get some statistics. I wanted to ask the secretary, you know, you put three, four, five names up on a slideshow during a press conference, but who are the dozens and dozens of others that have been detained, that have been arrested?
--:-- Alex Padilla: We've come since to learn that the vast majority of people being caught up in these indiscriminate raids, and we should talk about that here for a minute, don't have a violent criminal history.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And so who are they? They may be undocumented for a number of reasons.
--:-- Alex Padilla: A lot of people who are undocumented came with TPS, right? Temporary Protective Status.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And Donald Trump has taken that away. Or maybe they came initially on a work visa and overstayed that visa.
--:-- Alex Padilla: It's not always people who came here unlawfully. But they find themselves, after years if not decades, of working, paying taxes, raising families here, the target of these indiscriminate rates.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I want to talk about immigration, certainly, and what's happening in California. I want to stick with you, though, for a moment.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: You were very emotional afterwards. You spoke very passionately about what had happened.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: We also saw Vice President J.D. Vance, when referring to you and that incident, use the wrong name. He called you Jose Padilla.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Yeah. Sadly, not surprised, because this is how petty this administration is.
--:-- Alex Padilla: It's not just Trump, not just Vance. It's the culture that they have created for themselves.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And I knew what he was trying to do, right? To call a Latino man Jose, flippantly. That's their way of trying to ridicule us.
--:-- Alex Padilla: You know, for Vice President Advance in particular, right? Let's remember who Jesus' parents were. They were Jose and Maria, Joseph and Mary.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But for Latinos, look, I take it as a point of view. I turn it around because I know a lot of Jose's. A lot of Jose's are hard workers.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So if that's what you're going to call me, then I'm aware it's a point of pride.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Back to the press conference and what happened. As shaken up as that was, because that was quite the experience, it was clear to me that if that's how this administration would respond to a senator with a question, imagine not just how they could treat so many other people, but how they are treating so many other people when the cameras are not on.
--:-- Alex Padilla: This should be a wake-up call. And it started in Los Angeles.
--:-- Alex Padilla: We've seen National Guard troops now roving the streets of Washington, D.C., threats to now be sent into Portland or Memphis or San Francisco or New York, etc.
--:-- Alex Padilla: This is a very, very heady time for our country.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: What I'm hearing you say is that you felt that what happened to you was sort of the canary, and to what happened in Los Angeles was the sort of canary in the coal mine, that the way that they were treating a U.S. senator who's Latino, is emblematic of a wider attitude and objective.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Without a doubt. Without a doubt.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And again, going back to the press conference, as I mentioned, we were in an FBI office in a federal building, and they knew who I was.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I had an escort from the moment I entered the front door. They knew who I was.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: You think it was deliberate, or do you think it was a mistake?
--:-- Alex Padilla: At a minimum, it was a hell of an overreaction. But they knew who I was.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Just like Vice President Vance knows my name. But he chose to call me Jose.
--:-- Alex Padilla: We served together for two years in the Senate, for Christ's sake. He knows who I am, but it's the way they choose to go about things.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I was thinking about this in the context of your own upbringing, how you got into politics, and the things that drew you into this work.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Because I think there is a through line there. You grew up in the San Fernando Valley. Your parents emigrated from Mexico. They were working class. Your dad was a short-order cook. Your mom was a housekeeper.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Yeah. So you got the beginnings. Perfect.
--:-- Alex Padilla: My father is from the state of Jalisco. My mother is from the state of Chihuahua. They came separately to Los Angeles. They met. They fell in love. They decided to get married and they applied for green cards in that order.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And I thank the United States government every day for saying yes to those applications because you can imagine if they would have been denied my life journey. Opportunities in life would be very different for me than what they have been.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But they became legal residents. And you right for 40 years my dad worked as a short order cook.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So when I speak at colleges and high schools I remind the kids when you go out to a diner and think of who scrambling the eggs who flipping the pancakes that's what my dad did.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And for the same 40 years, my mom used to clean houses. On their modest incomes, they raised three of us.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And I have vivid memories of my dad interrupting me studying or doing my homework and telling me in Spanish, Hijo, cuando crezcas, quiero que trabajes con tu mente. y no con tu espalda.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Saying, I want you to work with your mind and not with your back.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Right, right. And there's a lot of honor in manual labor, but that was his way of saying, I want better for you.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And so I thought, okay, well, academically, what do I like? I used to like math, somehow did well in science.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: So the advice and counsel you get from teachers and others is you ought to be an engineer.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And you ended up going to MIT and you studied engineering.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And despite some great schools in California, I was introduced to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And so years before www.anything, I sent off a letter requesting an application, got on the mailing list.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And by the time the acceptance letter came, I knew that I would have to go for two reasons.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Number one, yes, it was a chance of a lifetime for me. But also talk about the fulfillment of my parents' dreams.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: You got drawn, though, into politics instead of actually going into engineering.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And so that was the setup because think of the excitement, the enthusiasm and the emotion.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Graduating from MIT, returning home, parents are proud. And what do I see on television? The year was 1994.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Republican governor of California at the time, Pete Wilson, was up for reelection, down in the polls, championing this Proposition 187.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Which sought to make immigrant families no longer eligible for public services.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And what was it about that that drew you into politics?
--:-- Alex Padilla: Because of the cruelty of the message. The cruelty of the message, the imagery of kind of people, you know, crossing the border in big numbers, the language, the scapegoating, the demonizing of immigrants.
--:-- Alex Padilla: He was talking about my family. He was talking about my community.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And it was offensive and it was enraging.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And I realized, look, that engineering degree looks nice on the wall. And I'll at some point come back to that. But right now, I have to get involved.
--:-- Alex Padilla: This is my home. And if I want California to move in a better direction morally, I can't just sit back and wait for others to do it.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I hadn't really been involved in electoral politics up until that point. But I knew that I could either try to be a part of it or not.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And I chose to be a part of it.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And in fact, you were elected to LA City Council in 1999 at the age of only 26.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Yeah, less than five years later, after a little bit of organizing, some voter registration drives, managing some political campaigns, I finally chose to run for office myself.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I want to stay with Prop 187 because it passed, but it never took effect because of legal challenges.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: However, that particular fight is really credited with giving Democrats their supermajority in the state because Latinos were activated in a huge way for many years.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And you're the perfect example of that.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: In that context, I'm wondering how you look at the legacy of Prop 187 now and that fight.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Because over the years, you know, the Democratic Party ended up taking more liberal stances on immigration.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Do you think that Democrats took the wrong lessons from those debates?
--:-- Alex Padilla: I don't think so. Maybe they're not done reading the lesson plan.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: One final note on the proposition itself to underscore the cruelty of it. There was a clause that would have required school personnel to report to the authorities anybody they suspected of being undocumented.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Turning teachers and counselors and school personnel into immigration officers, that's how bad it was.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Part of the reason why it never went into effect, it was deemed unconstitutional, but it was a heck of a wake-up call.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And not just for my generation of young people at the time deciding, hey, we got to get involved somehow.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Some people became activists, some advocates, some of us ran for office.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But also for people like my parents, right? Countless numbers of Californians at the time, my parents, legal residents, mind you, but with no sense of urgency or desire to become citizens.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And finally they did so, and not just to sort of protect themselves, but so that they could register to vote and they could have a say in our democracy.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And huge numbers of people like them did that fundamentally changing the electorate in California.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And as a result, not just who our representatives, are, but the political priorities and the political agenda at all levels, the congressional delegation, state house leadership, and counties and cities throughout the state.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I hear you saying that it, you know, really was a wake-up call for everyone, that they needed to engage in the political project around immigration and California.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: But we're still having those debates today.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And part of the lesson one could say of Prop 187 now is that it was really popular. It passed in California. People actually wanted to implement some of the things that were in that law.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But think about that. It was popular. It was deemed unconstitutional. And what prevailed? The Constitution.
--:-- Alex Padilla: That's an important lesson.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: But as you know, we are having a wider conversation in this country after the election of Donald Trump on what was a very clearly anti-immigrant platform about what we owe our undocumented community.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: There is a lot of opposition in this country to giving people who are here illegally access to the same rights and privileges that people who are citizens of this country have.
--:-- Alex Padilla: No, I think actually I think the question may be too narrow.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But I think the real question is not just what do we owe undocumented or what do we owe legal immigrants or like what do we owe America? We owe America a much better immigration system than we have today.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Our immigration system is outdated. It needs to be modernized.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And let's understand the various components of it.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Democrats and Republicans agree we need a safe, secure, humane, orderly Southern border of the United States.
--:-- Alex Padilla: That's one element of it.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Second, let's ask ourselves, does everybody who want to come to the United States deserve to just be able to come no matter what? Of course not.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But our systems of being able to come on a work visa, on a student visa, to seek asylum, etc., those are outdated. They need to be modernized.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I wonder what you make of, in the last election, a very clear discussion by Vice President Vance, articulated to me when I interviewed him and the president, that illegal immigration is a drain on this country, that it is taking away jobs from Americans.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And that message not only resonated among swaths of the population, but it also resonated among Latinos.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I mean, we saw Latinos take a big swing to the right, and it doesn't seem like that message from you, from others, resonated.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So a couple of things. I mean, I think, number one, I disagree with the big swing to the right.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I think there was some element of the Latino vote that swung to the right, more men than women, but a bigger swing to sitting it out.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And we can look at the numbers of turnout. Turnout was down this last election.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So, yes, Democrats have a lot of work to do, A, to win back some voters that maybe went Republican this last election, but also had to re-engage a lot of voters that decided to sit it out.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: What Trump and Vance campaigned a lot on was this emphasis on the dangerous violent criminals.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I can't tell you how many times I've heard, not just in California, especially in California, but from across the country, voters saying, this isn't what I signed up for.
--:-- Alex Padilla: They knew Trump talked a lot about immigration during the course of the campaign. But the cruelty of these indiscriminate raids, the racial profiling supported by the Supreme court, my God, saying, yes, somebody's appearance alone is enough to arrest or detain somebody, somebody's accent or their perceived occupation.
--:-- Alex Padilla: That's wrong. You cannot enforce the law by breaking the law.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Part of the reason I think it's been pretty well shown that there was this move to the right by Latinos and others more broadly was because of what happened on the border under President Biden. over 250,000 encounters a month at its height.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I think there's no question that the measures that President Trump has taken have been effective.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I'm just wondering if you look back now and you think perhaps you might have taken a different stand on that debate.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Well, what I was waiting for at the moment when those proposals came up for votes, what was missing then and what's missing now is okay now what because I've had so many conversations with my colleagues both sides of the aisle by the way not just Democrats talking to Democrats but me talking to Republicans and they tell me in private Alex dreamers deserve better I'm with you on that but first we have to get the border under control farm workers they deserve better we rely on them they help feed the nation but first we have to get the border under control okay so you're telling me that based on the numbers the border is now under control.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Now what? Now where's the assistance for the Dramers and the farm workers and so many others?
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I'm wondering now, would you make the same decision to vote against the bill knowing the result.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Because perhaps if that bill had passed and given more security at the border Democrats might have not lost so badly It might have not given President Trump you know what was a very very useful issue for him
--:-- Alex Padilla: On policy, I still stand by my vote because there was no recognition and no willingness to commit to some relief or assistance for dreamers, essential workers more broadly, etc., number one.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Number two, when it comes to the takeaways from the election, I'm not going to say immigration as an issue didn't have a role to play.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But I would argue— In policy, but in politics? I would argue that in the election, economic anxiety played a larger role than just the situation at the southern border.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I understand as a policy matter, but as a political matter, do you think you made the right choice in helping to kill that bipartisan bill?
--:-- Alex Padilla: Yeah, because the political leverage that I have, I am going to utilize to keep advancing the need to do better by dreamers, by farm workers, by central workers more broadly, and so many others that deserve to come out of the shadows.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Do you think the border as it is now, the restrictions that are there should remain there?
--:-- Alex Padilla: I think there's a, I know the numbers are the numbers, but there's a much smarter way to go about maintaining a secure, humane, orderly southern border.
--:-- Alex Padilla: It does need a lot of investment, but experience tells us that it's not just how many more Border Patrol officers and how many more ICE agents we need to hire.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Let's invest in technology, surveillance technology, screening technology at ports of entry.
--:-- Alex Padilla: If the concern, as they've painted it, and I partially agree, is not just people who come, but if it's drugs or other... But it's the asylum system.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I mean, the thing that's really... And that's part of what needs to be updated. That's what I'm saying.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I am wondering, since you got your start in politics at a difficult moment of protest against immigration, what are you seeing in terms of how the community is responding to this moment?
--:-- Alex Padilla: Yeah, well, first of all, let me recognize that the fear in a lot of communities is very, very real.
--:-- Alex Padilla: There's a lot of terror being felt in communities throughout California and far beyond.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And when I say the fear is real, I mean, you can see it in the economic impact.
--:-- Alex Padilla: When you go to restaurants, it used to be bustling every day in the lunch hour, now half full maybe, in part because some workers are afraid to go to work.
--:-- Alex Padilla: A lot of people are afraid to go out because these rates can take place anywhere.
--:-- Alex Padilla: They've taken place not just at Home Depots and construction sites. This administration has chosen to try to conduct these raids in hospitals, in schools, in churches, houses of worship.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Really? Because that's where the worst of the worst tends to hang out.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So it's having that real world impact.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But I say the courage to stand up and speak up is impressive.
--:-- Alex Padilla: That has to continue because this administration is out of control.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I'd also like to ask you about California's new No Secret Police Act, which bans some federal law enforcement from wearing masks in many situations.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: This is going to pit state law against federal law because essentially federal lawmakers and the administration are saying they have a right to mask.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Who do you think federal law enforcement is supposed to listen to?
--:-- Alex Padilla: I mean, and what if they don't comply?
--:-- Alex Padilla: It may very well end up in the courts and maybe it'll take some time to hash out.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But in the meantime, whether it's a city, whether it's a state dictating the rules of law enforcement in their particular jurisdiction, I believe that is valid.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Number one. Number two, it's important to remember like this requirement of identifying yourself, of not being masked, you know, with certain necessary exemptions to it.
--:-- Alex Padilla: It's not a new concept. Other federal law enforcement agencies are required to do so. State law enforcement agencies are required to do so. Local police departments and sheriff departments around the country are required to do so.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Before we move on from immigration, I do want to circle back to the DREAMers, because this is an issue that has had bipartisan support.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: This administration has made it pretty clear that they would like to see the DREAMers self-deport, as they put it.
--:-- Alex Padilla: One of the frustrations I've heard from Democrats in particular on this issue is that why hasn't Democratic leadership, when they have had the opportunity to actually make inroads on something that is popular broadly, why haven't they been able to actually help the dreamers?
--:-- Alex Padilla: Look, I share the frustration. I can't speak to what the Senate did or didn't do prior to my joining the Senate in January of 2021.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And sadly, knowing the rules of the Senate now, you need bipartisan support to move that measure forward.
--:-- Alex Padilla: The encouraging thing is dreamers do enjoy bipartisan support. The DREAM Act, as introduced in a number of Congresses, have had Republican names on the bill itself.
--:-- Alex Padilla: But ever since Trump, you have too many Republicans afraid to even do that publicly, to support dreamers publicly, let alone cast a vote to give relief to the people that they know deserve it.
--:-- Alex Padilla: It is absolutely frustrating, but we're going to keep pressing because those dreamers deserve nothing less.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And to remind them who it is that's keeping them from having that certainty that they need, whether it's who's not willing to vote for it because Donald Trump tells them no, or who it is that's challenging in a court, it's Republicans.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Do you think Democrats are afraid of talking about immigration now because of the climate? because, I mean, I have to say, even some of your fellow senators who are Latino, this isn't an issue that they have been standing front and center on.
--:-- Alex Padilla: I'm actually sensing the opposite right now because of the overreach of this administration, because the activity is on the uptick in a lot of parts of the country, and they're now realizing it, hearing the stories, right?
--:-- Alex Padilla: It's one thing to talk about immigration broadly or talk about statistics generally. But most people, when you stop and think about it, you know somebody. You know somebody. You know, one, two degrees of separation, maybe.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: After the break, I talked to Senator Padilla about his own political ambitions and what he makes of the rumors that he'd like to be California's next governor.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I'm just trying to think through where can I be most impactful? Not just short-term, but mid-term and long-term.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I want to talk about another national debate that is California-centric, which is redistricting.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Trump has pushed a wave of redistricting in GOP-led states that may mean more Republican congressional seats.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: It started in Texas. It's moved beyond. In response, California has put forth a ballot initiative known as Prop 50, And that's going to be voted on in November.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: And that would temporarily redraw California's map and possibly add up to five Democratic seats.
--:-- Alex Padilla: You used to be against gerrymandering. You're in support of the measure now.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So can you explain to me your thinking on this?
--:-- Alex Padilla: Sure. Well, let's make a couple things very, very clear. Number one we would not be here if it weren't for the fact that Donald Trump called Governor Abbott in Texas and said find me five more Republican seats
--:-- Alex Padilla: In a very similar way that he called the Secretary of State in Georgia after losing the 2020 election saying find me 11 more votes
--:-- Alex Padilla: Not just Trump making the call, but the governor and the legislative leadership of Texas saying, yes, sir. That's the only reason California is doing what it's doing.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: I agree. Redistricting should be independent, should happen only once every 10 years after the census in all 50 states.
--:-- Alex Padilla: That's the ideal scenario. But that's not what's happening here.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And the reason they're doing that, I mean, let's look at a bigger picture.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Under normal times, a political party in power would be more than happy to run on their record in the next election and seek to stay in power.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Right? Republicans have the majority of the House, the Senate, and they occupy the White House.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Their record has been so bad for American families that they're running from it.
--:-- Alex Padilla: So the only chance they have at holding on to power is to rig the election before it even starts.
--:-- Alex Padilla: And because the House majority is so thin, so narrow, the only way to try to hold on to their majority is to do this partisan redistricting.
--:-- Alex Padilla: California would not normally do this, but the stakes are so high.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Because of the damage and destructiveness of this administration, California is fighting back, absolutely.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: Because you know that it started in Texas and it's not going to end there.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: You hear the chatter in Indiana, in Missouri, in Florida, Ohio. Republicans are playing hardball and Democrats need to do the same.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: It's a risky move politically. Having seen other shutdowns, it really can go either way as to who the population blames.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: They are, generally speaking, unpopular. In a similar moment in March, I spoke to Chuck Schumer, and he changed his mind at the last minute on this issue about a shutdown and voted with Republicans to keep the government open.
--:-- Lulu Garcia Navarro: With the rationale that it was going to hurt the American people, that it would hurt the federal workforce.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Here's one of the most significant things that has changed since March.
--:-- Alex Padilla: Maybe some
