Why the A.C.L.U. Wants to Be More Like the N.R.A.

For decades, the American Civil Liberties Union has battled in the courts on behalf of Americans’ constitutional rights, whether that means same-sex marriage or the right of neo-Nazis to hold a rally. But since the 2016 election, the A.C.L.U. has been changing tactics, and one of its models for the future is the National Rifle Association. Guest: Anthony Romero, the executive director of the A.C.L.U. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.