JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

the Joe Rogan experience all right champ is here last time I saw you I think it was before the Maduro fight wasn't it wasn't it before that fight it was before that fight and that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo and everybody was like that's crazy he's gonna go up all the way a 168, two more weight classes above that. That's nuts. Everybody's got to shut the fuck up now. Yeah, yeah. You know when I say skills pay the bills. They do. They do. Skills are everything, man. But the thing is, it's like, it's interesting. I watched both the Canelo fight and the Madrimov fight again recently, and Madrimov looked bigger. He looked bigger than Canelo. It was really interesting. He was a big dude. He's a big dude. I wonder what that guy walks around at. Because it's not 154. No, not at all. He's a big guy. He fought at 160 his last fight. Did he? Yeah. Really an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was, like I was telling you before, it was a great I told you so fight for me. Because there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump. He's too experienced. Well, you got it. I mean, you made it look, I want to say, easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. You know, it was such a clear victory. It was at one point when you were pity patting him and then firing off hard shots. I was like, oh, my goodness, he's feeling it. Yeah, I was in my element. I was in the zone mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, you know, telling me I was going to get knocked out. that I was too small and I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of so I was just like I'm gonna show y'all what I'm really about because this is not the first time that I didn't heard that oh he can't do this he can't do that I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime because when Roy Jones was in his prime everybody was saying Roy Jones other than James Toney Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody am I and I was like no he's just that much better than everybody else he makes it look like they not good if you saw them fight against everybody else you would say these guys are awesome For sure For sure And I been dealing with that my whole career You know people getting so much praise after fighting the guy that I already knocked out. You know, if they beat him, oh, such and such beat this guy. But me, it's, oh, you're fighting tomato cans or you're fighting bones and things like this. So I was just like. It was just because you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they try to find flaws in every great performance. And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys that he beat? But you beat great guys. Champions. Yeah, I mean, listen. One of the more interesting fights to me was the Benavidez fight. I rewatched that again recently too. That was a good fight. Especially that. Because there's so much tension. There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions. And he can fight. He can fight. You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury, and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same, you know. So that's another thing that they're going to say, oh, well, he had got shot in the leg, and if he didn't, and this would have happened or that would have happened. I'm like, he fought the same. Like, if you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from his boxing standpoint. He wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that used his legs as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grain of salt. Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he fought the same. And he fought well. I mean, he's a tough guy. He fought really well. Took me 12 rounds. Yeah, listen. But, oof, that right uppercut in that 12th round that put him down, I was like, oh, my goodness. I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh, there it is. There it is. You found him. Yeah, he had good head movement, you know. Tough guy. He was ducking them hooks and them straight punches, so I was just like, all right, I got to switch it up. Well, also, he believed in himself. For sure, definitely. He came into that fight to win. Oh, definitely. Most definitely. Most definitely. It's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve. Because I felt like man if you retired after this Benz fight I don think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set Yeah You know the people inside boxing the people that really know boxing did But I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit. And so the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae. Yeah, it was. And even now, a lot of people saying, oh, well, Canelo's washed. He's old. And I'm like, well, I'm older than him. like what are we talking about you know so i just i just love it you know because it just shows what level i'm on you know for everybody to already know what's what what happened and then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened right so i just be like man it's cool that's boxing though right that's sports in general you're always going to have that there's always going to be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit but you know for a lot of fighters it's later in their career especially when they're avoided or they have difficult difficulty signing big fights it's later in their career that people really appreciate them like think about bernard it wasn't until bernard hopkins beat felix trinidad that people were like oh shit like i think he was like 37 or 36 when he fought trinidad and a lot of people are saying He's washed up. It's over. And when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I've been calling out everybody since the beginning, you know. They created a whole side of the street because of me, you know. I'm with a different promoter. It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me. But now look at everybody now. All the promoters are working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way, and I don't think too many other fighters can say that. That's true, yeah. It's a dirty business, you know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter, you know, avoids certain fighters. It's always been that way, you know, And it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many like the big one for a long time was David Benavidez and Canelo. Like everybody wants to see that fight and they just can figure out a way to make it happen And you got to think someone avoiding somebody and it not Benavidez No not at all You know I just think Canelo in a sense he know how big Benavidez is going to come in the ring You know, Benavidez is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter, you know. And I just think Canelo knows, like, why would I want to get in the ring with this guy that's going to be massive come fight time? And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career, you know, and beating them with skill. you know so you gotta tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished absolutely being 5'7 going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and and actually winning and knocked out Kovalev I mean it was Kovalev later in his career but he's still Kovalev for sure and then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime for sure I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavidez fight, the B-Ball fight. Because I think after that fight, he's like, okay. This is a little big. Because B-Ball, not just big, but he's got that Russian style, light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out. It's a difficult style to handle. The only guy to beat Betterbeave was another beast. This episode is brought to you by CBS. From executive producer Taylor Sheridan, a new era of Yellowstone begins. in the new CBS original series, Marshals. Casey Dutton is back, and he's teaming up with an elite unit of U.S. Marshals to bring range justice to Montana. With the Yellowstone Ranch behind him and a new team at his side, Casey will balance family and duty as he faces his biggest fight yet. Luke Grimes stars in Marshals, March 1st on CBS, and streaming on Paramount+. Yeah, so I think, you know, him knowing that and then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavidez had persuade him to go elsewhere. But, you know, there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they elsewhere but you know there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they wanted to fight right you know look at sugar ray leonard and aaron pryor they never got that fight so and i just won a mini so um it's gonna be like that well it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed to, you know, and that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. Like, this is, this is like, you know, all the bullshit. It's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like all the bullshit's gone. It's like now everybody's got to give you your just due because that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was one of the all time great performances because it was a Canelo that's, you know, you could say whatever you want. I think he's still in his prime. and you just outboxed him. And you outboxed him. I mean, think about it. 40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68, and you outboxed him. 35 first. That's right. 35 first. Right. That's right. That's crazy. That's crazy going up from 35 to 68 and outboxing the champ. And the way you did it, too. It was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man. If you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight to watch. Because, you know, Canelo's a dangerous guy. He's a heavy puncher. And he puts a lot of power into his punches. He's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power. But, man, he knows how to land it. And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble. And, whew, he just... There was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even brought the hand back. So he was going to counter and you were throwing a quick hook. I was like, oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty. Trying to catch him in the counter. You know, Canelo is a great counter puncher, you know, so you got to beat him to it. You got to counter the counter at times. Did that fight play out the way you thought it was going to play out? Yeah, most definitely. Exactly the way you thought it. Most definitely. We knew what we was up against. You know when I went to his fight against Berlanga and against the guy that on his team I forgot his name Munguia When I was with Turkey I said Turkey you can beat me Just watching him from 135 to now, like, live. I'm looking at him. I'm just like, I can beat this dude. Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. and his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, yeah, he can't fight like that against me, which he didn't, which he definitely rose his game, but I just believed in myself that much that nothing was going to stop me from getting that victory that night. The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like under-motivated. Yeah. It wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically when you look at him. he wasn't, you know, and it happens, you know. That's why I always train like this is the toughest fight of my career because it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about. Right, right, right, right. Them be the ones that sneak up on you and, you know, you got to be ready for them. But he didn't come to fight. he moved the whole fight and you know Canelo was frustrated and he was just like ah man this dude didn't come to do anything right he came to survive yeah so I could see where he was frustrated at yeah well he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either right and so he probably said listen if I just keep moving I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good yeah Yeah. It's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. And it's interesting how that changes, how people now look at your body. And then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, Errol Spence can fight, man. He's a really good fighter. And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had, and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought. But now with the Canelo victory, you're in this rare air of, you know, mentioned as one of the greatest of all time You know there a handful of guys There is no it very difficult to say the greatest of all time because people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson They you know they throw Floyd in the mix prime time Roy Jones There all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time, but you are now in that conversation. That's got to be nice. It's beautiful. You know, especially all the hard work that I didn't put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. You know, since I was seven years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting, I've been a fighter since day one. So when people compare me to, like, Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard, comparing me to who will win, who will win, that just let me know that I did my job well in the sport. Oh, you absolutely did. Now, are you definitely done done? it's over it's definitely over yeah i don't got that so i told i told a couple of my close friends i said okay since 2014 i've been fighting for something a title i won my first title in 2014 march of 2014 ever since then i've been fighting for titles undisputed titles undisputed undisputed titles undisputed like just everything that i've been fighting for now and i just come back and it's just like all right what's the motivation just money you know like all right so what what is on top of that you know because my my thing was the money gonna come no i was taking pay cuts at the pay cuts at the pay cuts because i knew what i wanted my legacy to be when i finished boxing i want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time you know and i think i i did that you know so now it's like this last fight that i had the height of it there's no better finish than that to me yeah what was on the line coming from where i came from all the odds that was stacked against me all the things that i had to go through and camp to get to that fight, you know, it was just like, man, you did everything right. So what can top that? I love that I love when fighters go out on top like that And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience all the weight classes you competed in undefeated and beat Canelo, another all-time great. I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career. It's pretty dope. For sure. And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice. It's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point to entertain the fans. You know, we go through a lot. You know, we put our body through a lot. And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourselves, they don't care about us. They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion. and we go to the fights, you see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights and people just walk past them. Yeah. You know, they on to the next. Oh, let's see the young fighter, you know. And it's like they use you up until you have nothing left. Then they forget about you. Yeah. You know, so it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first because once it's over with, it's over with. And you can't get your health back. You can always get money elsewhere, but once you can't, your mind is messed up, it's over with. That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see, too, to see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out, on top, and done. Yeah. And so many fighters have said that, and then a couple years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting. They go, man, I think I got one more in me, and then maybe they're buying a lot of shit. That's the real problem. Yeah. It's always going to be that, you know, I got another one in me. I got another one in me. Because they miss that high of all the fans chanting their name and everybody, you know, cameras, lights, and, you know, they miss it, you know, but I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. Really? Y'all can have the lights. Just pay me and I can go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my family. But I was always that type of person. But I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. Really? Y'all can have the lights. Just pay me and I can go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my family. You know, I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention. How come? Because that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed. you know I'll be under the radar I do like that you show up by yourself but one time you showed up at one of the UFC's and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar and they put it on the fucking screen and I didn't catch it cause I was doing the broadcast but I was like are you guys out of your fucking you don't know who Terrence Crawford is and you're in combat sports this is crazy I think they did that on purpose no way no no no no it was just some moron in the truck Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%. They did not do that on purpose. No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that. No chance. Yeah, I was sitting next to everybody, and I was like, did they really just do that? No, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason. Yeah. It was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast. I don't know who it was. Right. I didn't even want to know. I'd yell at them. But for sure, for sure. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Big news. Aldi is now on Uber Eats and you get 20% off your first grocery order with the code new Aldi 26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28. Terms apply. See app for details. But you roll very low-key. You don't show up with an entourage. A lot of times you're just by yourself. And that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved. People would be so surprised that they'll see me in the airport. They'd be like, you by yourself? like man this is crazy I would always imagine you with security guards big entourage right I mean that just a bill yeah you know you got to pay all them people to be around you That true too So you know I didn need to Yeah, I mean, every time you showed up at the studio, you showed up by yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's another good example for young fighters to realize, like, at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's, it's very temporary. It's very fleeting. It goes away. Legacy. legacy and the glory of your accomplishments that stays forever and the respect of people in boxing that really know yeah for sure yeah that's what that's what it's all about and you've got that now everybody has to shut the fuck up yeah they do everybody has to shut the fuck up even the people that said that all canelo's did stop you were the same people saying canelo was gonna stop them you're saying people that saying errol spence was gonna stop me saying people that saying, Magimoff was going to stop me and so forth. So it just got to the point where they just, they can't, they got to accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's just been proving me wrong time after time. It's like, let me just give him his flowers. Forget it. Yes. You know. That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. it's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure to have someone who really does it and does it perfectly and does it in a way that is very unusual because like you're one of the best switch hitters since marvin haggler if not the best you know and like that god that is such an underrated skill it's so funny one of the times you were in here you were telling me that his coach your coach told you stop doing that Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, you need to focus on fighting orthodox the right way instead of switching to Southpaw. I was just like, all right, switch to Southpaw again. Then it was just like, he was like, all right, well, if you're going to do that, we're going to train like that. I was like, all right, let's train like it because I'm going to keep switching because it just came so natural. Yeah. I'll be in there, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then I'll just switch like unthinkable. Bop, bop, bop. Yes. Man. You know just I win and I win his we gonna fight like we're gonna train like that well, it's such a underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it because you have to Recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch different angles order in MMA It become commonplace In the beginning of MMA It was a lot of people would stand one way or the other And now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching because it hides combinations. It hides different techniques. There's so many different things you could do in MMA off a switch because you're switching and kicking, you're switching and punching, you're kicking. And then now you're in southpaw and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. It's like things are, there's so much overload of the mind where you have to calculate all these different things. And if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up inside the cage. Yeah, because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other. You know, and then when you switch on them, it's just like, oh, I hate fighting Southpaws. Right. You know, and just do something to their brain, you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way. Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and then your brain has to like. You got to worry about the hook instead of the straight. Everything's different. Yeah. It's just, I mean, I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now. because I think it's the conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's Southpaw or Orthodox, stick with that. There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part, stick with that. But I don't think that's the way to go. I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance, but I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up. It's always beneficial if you can have it and not need it, then they need it and they ain't got it. Yes. You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got it in my bag just in case I have it. Yes. You know, and that's like me. I got it all. Yeah. Do you think you're going to train people when you're done? I'll be training a little bit. I'll be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet. Yeah. I get frustrated, and I have to remember, like my coach, BOMAC say, everybody's not you, bud. Yeah, everybody don't adapt like you. Everybody not as athletic like you, you know, so you can't be frustrated if they're not getting something right. Like as fast as you get and you been doing this since you were seven And some of these kids that started when they was teenagers you know so you got to give them grace you know and take your time with them And some of them you know they flat and you just got to train them into their style. Everybody not going to have your style. So when he explained that to me, I was just like, hey, you're right. You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see. Yeah. You know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be. Being a version of you. Yeah. That's got to be difficult, right? Because everybody does have a different style. Yeah. And, you know, you're never going to convince some fighters to fight your way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like there's a lot of great fighters like, you know, Freddie Roach that had some boxing matches but was never like an elite boxer. but still was a great coach and but to have an elite fighter to be a coach it's like there's an element of that first of all you is that there's an element from the young guy coming up like you want to impress you got Terrence Crawford in your corner yeah you want to impress him Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job and he became a great trainer there's a bunch of fighters that have done it but it's like I always wonder because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young There's so much small, minutiae, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on that would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges. Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them on that aspect when they're in the ring or when they're on the bag or when they're hitting the mitts, shadow boxing, just little details. You know, I come in the gym and you see the little kids. They see me and they look to the corner and they hit the bag. Yeah, they can fire it up. You can see they're trying to get my attention. I come over there and give them some little wisdom, you know, and they're appreciative. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. You know, my son wrestling next door, and they over here boxing, and I'm both one side and the other side. Your son just won a wrestling title. Yeah, he just won a state as a freshman. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. That's so amazing. What does he want to do? He want to go D1. He told me that Saturday after the tournament, we on our way want to do? He want to go D1. He told me that Saturday after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said that I want to go to Olympics. I said, you want to say what kind of mind state is that? I said, you're going to go. I said, you got to have it in your mind. You're going. You can't say you want to go. You got to say I'm going to the Olympics. That way, you know you're already programming it, you know, for the future. How did you learn that mentality? Man, been doubting my whole life. You know, been doubting my whole life. And my coach, Midge Minor, used to always say, la-di-da-di, we fight anybody. They ain't fought you yet, you know. And I just carried that on my shoulders. Like, anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fought me yet, so you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me. And so just like my son, like, hey, you got to have that confidence that whatever you say you want to do, you're going to go out and do it. But you got to put the work in first. So in that sense, doubters give you fuel. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of people like that. A lot of people like that. They live off the haters. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They fuel me up. And then especially when it's crazy because like Majumoff and Canelo, they were so respectful, you know, and I respect them. You know, I've been a fan of Majumov, you know, coming from Uzbekistan and learning about him and hearing about him. And I've always been a fan of Canelo, like, since I can remember, you know. So I didn't have that, like, killer, like, mind, like, heart in my heart. Like, I wanted to beat him, but, like, my other fights, I was like, man, I want to knock this dude out. Like Benavidez. Yeah, I wanted to knock him out. So even in training, I didn't have that rage. This dude talking shit. They never got under my skin. It was all respectful. So it was like, I want to whoop their ass, but I didn't want to inflict pain. I wanted to knock him out. There was one fighter you fought at 140. His name is escaping me. But you stopped him in the fifth. Yes. Yeah, I wanted to knock him out. Oh, boy. Yeah. And I was so mad like when you watch that fight you know I miss like when they stopped it I miss like two crazy hooks and I just was like man why couldn I land him like he would have went to sleep like that how I was saying I want to I want to put him to sleep but you know it's it's a sport and it is what it is and I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it you know years down the line yeah well that is the danger of the sport that's why it's so different than every other sport it's like you legitimately putting your life on the line yeah and a lot of people don't understand that until something happened right you know us boxers a lot of boxers have died in that ring a lot of boxers have went in a ring one way and left it a different way yes you know so when a lot of fans they criticize boxers for doing what the sport is for and that's boxing you know us boxers like you're not even here getting your brains beat out so what you consider boring we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do right it's box right you know and And I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters they just do for boxing, like Floyd, like Shakur, when they're pure boxers. Yes. They want to see people bleeding, battered, knocked out, but they're not thinking about the aftermath and the after effects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, piss and blood and things like that. Like, your body is not meant to be on like that. Right. You know, so they just looking at, oh, well, I'll pay this money. Y'all going to go in there and kill each other. You know, and I think that's wrong. Yeah, well, you're always going to have morons in this world. You're always going to have casuals. You're always going to have people that don't appreciate what they're seeing. But like when I see a performance like Shakur versus Tiafimo that last fight, like that was art, that was art. That sneaky jab where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab and you could see Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it, he didn't know what to do. It was beautiful it barely got hit It was beautiful And things like that You know you see two high fighters but you just see one just on a different level because of his boxing IQ. You know, not because Teofimo didn't belong in the ring with him. It's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability is up here. You know? He didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give Teofimo the opportunity to land a good shot and change the outcome of the fight. One shot, I don't care who you is, in the right spot, at the right moment, anybody can get knocked out. Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched. Right. It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers. and when you see a guy like Tiafimo Tiafimo can crack, he's a big dude and he's a world champion and it was one of the most lopsided performances ever where you see one world champion challenging another world champion I mean it was art to me, every moment of that fight like up until the 12th round I was just like multiple times I was like oh my goodness it was just beautiful I love watching a guy at the pinnacle you know watching a guy where everybody else has got to go wow i didn't think it was gonna go like this because you know tiafimo's a super aggressive guy beat lomachenko's got a nasty jab throws big power in his punches he's tough as hell you know a lot of people like there's gonna be a tough fight and shakur just and he didn't run he stood right in front of him that's the other thing he wasn't getting hit and he was right in front of him i mean that was art that was art that's boxing at the highest level and um i'm fascinated because now they're talking about him and ryan garcia i am fascinated to watch that fight because that's a shakur is a different animal ryan looked amazing in that fight i mean he looked amazing i mean he looked so fast and it was beautiful fight to watch but uh that's an interesting fight i like that fight shakur and him i like that fight a lot because Shakur's just a different animal. You're dealing with a whole different kind of skill set. Yeah, Shakur. Listen I went down to camp before he fought Tia Fimo and I seen his focus and the level of you know intense training he was doing And I said, I don't know at all, but I know Shakur going to whoop Tia Fimo's ass. I tweeted that way before the fight, you know, and he went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in this fight for what it was. I don't think Barrios came to fight. You know, Ryan was boxing great. You know, the jab was working. The overhand right was working. And he looks out at me at the end and said, you see my jab? I said, man, it was working. That jab was beautiful because we're not used to seeing Ryan jab. Right. Or his right hand. Or boxing, for that matter. you know he was he was boxing beautiful beautiful you know and i commend him on that like he he aced it you know but when it come to shakur shakur is not a burials right no shakur got a jab shakur got head movement shakur got defense shakur knows range shakur have good legs so So I look at that fight like it's not going to be as a competitive fight like everybody thinks because if Ryan gets careless, he's going to get countered all day. If he gets careless. I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios. He's got to. Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed. I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot, but, I mean, that's not a knock. That's just like if you had it, everybody should rely on that. I mean, that's speed is nuts. Shakur's a different animal. That's what I'm saying. Well, a lot of people thought Devin Haney was different, though, right? A lot of people thought Devin Haney was going to give him real problems. When he dropped Devin early with a left hook, everybody was like, oh, this is different. I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted everything. They know each other far too well. I think him and Devin fought each other the most out of all of them. You know, Shakur and Ryan fought as well, which Shakur won all the times that they fought. But I just think, you know, him and Devin, the history of the team, which Shakur won all the times that they fought. which Shakur won all the times that they fought. But I just think, you know, him and Devin, the history of it, Devin came in there overconfident. Ryan, you know, being juiced up, you know, added a little whatever it did. But, you know, you can't take it away from him landing the punches that he was landing. You can't take away from the performance that, you know, he was doing. But when you on steroids, that adds to, you know. It definitely adds something. What did he get popped for? Do you remember? I don't even know. I just know. Jamie, find out what he got popped for. It was a very low level of whatever he got popped for. And a lot of people say, oh, the levels, it wouldn't even matter. It's such a small level. the problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you have in your system and that's one of the reasons why the ufc banned ivs because uh you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with ivs especially i don't know what what you're supposed to put in the iv but there's some nutrients that you can put in ivs that will mask any traces of performance It's enhancing drugs, which is why at UFC you have to hydrate. This is drug-free sports policy and USADA's policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids. You can't hydrate with an IV. And when you use an IV, which I don't know, were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate? I don't know. When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit. So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's still – what did he test positive for? Lost? I missed which fighter you're talking about. Ryan Garcia. Oh, that's right. Ryan Garcia when he fought Devin Haney. The fight got overturned, right? It was a no contest, which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory, one of his best victories ever. Dropped Devin, had him in trouble a bunch of times. Dropped him how many times? A few. Yeah, a few times. He looked fucking great in that fight. Yeah, he did. And I think, unfortunately, you know, that positive drug test, just... Osterine? Osterine, yeah. Okay. I think you know both of those fights is great fights for Ryan Ryan is in a great position right now Oh yeah You know he got the Roley unification fight You know, he lost to Roley. Right. He got that fight that he can, you know, try to avenge in a unification fight. Roley looked great in that fight. He got Devin in a unification fight. He got Shakur in a spectacular fight. fight so ryan's in a great position right if giovante comes back he's got that rematch i don't think giovante is gonna fight him without having those type of claws the rehydration claws yeah bring him down and you got to do this and you got to do that so that's crazy those those clauses are crazy you can't weigh more than x fuck off with that that's like with me and canelo i'm like man Listen, I'm challenging you. You can weigh whatever you want. I don't want no excuses. Hey, it is what it is. All you got to do is weigh 168. And then after that, it is what it is. Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do. Yeah. That's where they got it from. That's where they got it from. The thing is, these guys see that big number. They see those purses and they go, oh, I can fight good. Yeah. I'll just get a little smaller beforehand. It's just not smart. Yeah, your body's not going to react when it's not fully hydrated. No, not a chance. It's the worst way to fight. I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice. They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut? The most I ever had to cut was probably like 25. That's a lot. What weight was that, 35 or 40? 47. 47, really? Wow. My last fight was Spence. And when did you start your cut? Months. Months out. Yeah, months out. So the week of the fight, what were you at? Probably like 152, 154. Oh, okay. That's very good. That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way. Them last couple of pounds is tough. Yeah. Them last couple of pounds is tough. And I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with, you know. But the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135 That was like killing me What were you walking around at back then Probably like in the 50s Like 55. And so would you just lower your calories in camp? Everything. I got to change my whole diet. And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting 35? I don't even remember man I was cutting like probably like 7 pounds a week of the fight see that in the MMA world that's nothing these guys are cutting crazy because they wait to the last minute I know a lot of MMA fighters they just dehydrate themselves yeah they wait to the last minute but mine I gotta start gradually because I never want to go in there and just like tank right so i gotta change my eating habits up months like two months in advance that way i can get my body used to being lighter yeah you know performing at at that weight class because if not you know you you doing more hurting yourself than than than good because you're taking all the the fluid out of your brain exactly you know and yeah i couldn't be at no disadvantage like that. And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at 185, and he would weigh 225 when he fought, which is bananas. I mean, that's 40 fucking pounds. I think that's why I got when I fought Gamboa, when I got hurt, you know, in that ninth round. But I stopped him in the ninth round, but that was part of that. Boom, caught me with a clean shot. Boom. I was like, oh, shit. You know? Until this day, that's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever. You know, a lot of people thought Mean Machine dropped me, Mean Machine hurt me. I didn't got – Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots, but nothing was like that gamble. like my whole leg locked up. And I was just like, man, I gotta grab this dude. You know, and. And you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that? Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Definitely What weight was that at 135 Yeah 135 You a big guy man That a lot of weight to cut That the most problematic part of MMA for sure I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that. They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and trying to figure out what to do. It was crazy, though, because I've always been skinny. A lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully. He's this, he's that. And it's like, bro, I came from 132. I wasn't at, you know, you see a lot of these fighters, they in the amateurs, like Sean Porter, he was at 165, then he went to 147. You know, a lot of people, they was heavier, then they dropped weight. I was at 132, and I moved up to go at 135, you know, as a professional. And I was cool with the weight. Then I just started filling out once I started working out more and doing a little strength and condition. My body started filling out, so I kept moving up. But the weight that I was at with Canelo, that's the most comfortable time of my career to be able to eat whatever I want, not focus on weight, just work out. Did you feel much better in the ring because of that? I did. I did because that was the only time that I never, like I had to eat to keep my weight on. Wow. And it's like, I'm not used to doing that. Like I'm used to, you know. Starving. We got portions. It's like they feed me big meals. I'm like, I can't eat all this, you know. But so that was the one camp that it was like the weight wasn't an issue. Do you have a nutritionist in camp? Yes. And so how do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs? It's all weighed out. All of that. Yeah. Yeah. And then they weigh you, check you, make you body fat. They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning. What did you weigh, like, when you got into the ring? I think I was, like, 72. Okay. Yeah. It's just a few pounds. Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't weigh. I probably a couple of pounds yeah the only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling you know and that's it plays a big advantage if you can get a lot of weight on a guy that's that's get a lot of weight on a guy grappling you know and that's it plays a big advantage if you can get a lot of weight on a guy that's that's why a lot of guys do it it's also mma is very flawed and one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes there's just not enough weight classes there's giant leaps like between uh 205 the next weight class is heavyweight so it's 205 to 265 185 the next weight class is 205 that's 20 pounds that's nuts yeah 170 to 185 15 fucking pounds is a lot a lot that's a lot seven pounds is a lot 55 to 70 yeah seven pounds is a lot a lot of people don't know but i was way stronger at 47 than i was at 40 and that's only seven pounds right that's seven pounds of muscle that i don't have to cut right yeah and a lot of people think oh it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140. Is this five pounds? Oh, that matters. Yes, it matters a lot. And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155. They can't make the weight. And then they're too small for 170. Yes. Because at 170, you got guys that are never going to make 155. They're coming down from 210 and they're getting to 170 and they're jacked. I know somebody that was coming out from 230 fighting at 165. Oh, my God. who was that I ain't gonna say his name well Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw 230 Anthony Rumble Johnson was 230 and he was fighting in 170 I ran into Rumble once rest in peace he died a few years back I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170 and he was in between fights and I ran into him at the hotel and he was a fucking heavyweight he was so big I couldn't I go what do you weigh yeah and he said 230 I'm like dude that's crazy you have to cut 60 pounds yeah but it was killing him it was killing him like literally to the brink of death the day before a fight that's nuts that doesn't make any sense and they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there yeah not smart no at all i think for mma they really need to recognize this that one of the things that's gonna stop weight cuts is give people more weight classes, give people more options This idea of only having eight champions I think in MMA is very very limiting It also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and win championship after championship In MMA, if you win two belts, that's crazy. That's the only thing anybody's ever done. Because the weight classes are so far apart. Exactly. The only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes. No one's done it in three. Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now because he's walking around like 240, which is crazy. because he used to fight at 185. It's nuts. But if they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd have more competitive fights. We'd have less extreme weight cutting. We'd have healthier fighters. Just more champions is better. There's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's not a weight class for them. If there's a 20-pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like, whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass. And the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of that, it's pretty significant. So for a lot of fighters, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is. They don't have a chance. Yeah. It sucks. It does. It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of MMA. Any sport. Any sport. But in boxing, it's not as extreme. No one really does it. Gerald McClellan used to do it. He got real big in between fights. Real big. But that cost him in the Nigel Benn fight. I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. That's probably one of the contributing factors to why he's so hurt right now. And that fucked Roy up too because back at the time, that was his biggest rival was Gerald. And, you know, Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me, you know. Yeah, like, man, like I say, when you lose that weight, you don't understand you're losing that fluid in the back of your brain, you know. And it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating. It's tough. It's tough. Yeah, it's, but, I mean, boxing's been around longer. They've got it figured out. And unfortunately or fortunately the UFC dominates MMA And they only have eight weight classes so everybody else only has eight weight classes California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes but nobody The UFC has a heavyweight limit. Isn't that crazy that is? Isn't that stupid? It's stupid, right? Definitely. Talk to these people. I'm just now learning about that. You didn't know? No, not at all. 265. You have to weigh 265. So think about Tyson Fury. When Tyson Fury fought Deontay, he was like 280, 285. Yeah. Imagine he's got to dehydrate himself. He's got to lose 20 fucking pounds just to make the weight class. That's retarded. That doesn't make any sense at all. At all. At all. It's the heavy weight. It's the heaviest weight we can go. Remember Valuev when he was fighting Evander Holyfield? It was huge. God! He had to be over 300 pounds. He was a literal giant. Giant. An actual giant. Yeah. So I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about. Nobody listens to me, bro. They don't. They don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy. Well, we got to petition it then. Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute. So I understand why they don't want to listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in the air. I think these combat sports, it got to come from the fighters. You know, just like boxing. I think if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power. You know, but they can't cut the check without us. You know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard. Right. Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something. But the fighters that doesn't, they like, well, you can do that. I got to provide for my family. you can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long it's going to last, but who going to pay my bills? Right. Who going to put food on my family table while we're doing this, while we're making this stand? So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established. Yes. And I think that's where the seesaw effect happens. with boxing and UFC because... Well, UFC is more extreme because it's really just the UFC. It's really, I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right? Francis Ngannou one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA UFC heavyweight champion They couldn get a deal signed and he winds up leaving He goes to the PFL but nobody watching Nobody watches. Nobody cares. He knocked out some dude in the PFL, and nobody cared. Is he making more money? Yes. He care. He cares. Well, that's why he did it. Yeah, that's all that matters. He got a great deal with the PFL, and then he got to box. box Tyson Fury box Anthony Joshua doing well doing well much much more money for sure which is good but the fortunate and unfortunate fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed they really know how to do it they do it right they make stars out of these fighters they give them all these opportunities they get the most asses in the seats every pay-per-view sells well when there's a UFC pay-per-view people line up to see it there's a bunch of stars in the UFC. But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows who they are. And so if they want to come to the UFC, they have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. So you're leaving an organization. Like, if you're going from small promotions in boxing and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight or you're in Golden Boy promotions, you would imagine now I'm getting paid more money. More people are watching me. but it's not the case. These other organizations like the PFL have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at all because everybody wants to fight in the UFC. It's not a monopoly because there is other options. There's 1FC, there's PFL, there's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world, but the reality is it's like the NFL or like Q-tips. It's got a name. It's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch the XFL. Do people watch it? I don't know. But it's not the Super Bowl. There's one big organization. That's the NFL. There's one big MMA organization. That's the UFC. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. So it's very difficult for those guys to hold out for more money. It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for. Right. You know, that's what you got to ask yourself. Is you doing it for fame? Is you doing it for, to provide stability for your family? Is it? fame? fame? Is you doing it for to provide stability for your family? Is it I need money? Legacy. Definitely legacy. For the greats of the greats, legacy is the primary focus. Almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus because otherwise you never achieve greatness. If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that like the elite of the elite get, I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog, period. Facts. That's why I asked, what is you doing it for? Because Ngannou, you know, he's already famous. Right. He probably like, okay, well, if y'all going to pay me X amount over here and they only going to pay me this, then it makes business sense to go over here. Yes. You know, and that's just like Connor Behr. He just signed with Zufa. And a lot of people was saying he's disloyal and Eddie Herndon was loyal to him and this and that and this. He's getting $15 million for his next fight. I'm like, man, what is people talking about? I said, it's just business. It ain't personal with them, I bet. I said, Connor Behr did what was best for him and his family. I said, just like the promotional company is going to do what's best for them and their business, if a fighter that they sign lose probably two straight, they get to cut them. No questions asked. Why? Because now they're wasting money they feel. They don't care about that person's family. They don't care about that person's, you know, relationship with them. They're not going in there with their heart like, oh, man, like you a good buddy. They're like, ah, sorry, it's just business. cut you. So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do or a manager or anybody else, it's all you disloyal, you this, you that. I'm like make it make sense. It doesn't make any sense in boxing because in boxing there's so many promoters. There's so many different people. Eddie Hearns, Bob Arum, so many different promoters. Don King, there's so many different promoters. That's the beauty of boxing is that there's a lot of competition and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side And there cross There no cross in MMA It doesn exist They tried it a little bit in the early days They sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for pride and they brought some pride fighters over into the UFC, but they don't do that anymore. That was the early days because it was, the sport wasn't big back then. They were just trying to get big names and they were trying to work a promotional deal, but Japanese, man, they're clever. Like when they sold them Pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters, turned out all the contracts were bullshit, that none of them were valid. They basically bought Pride for, I think they spent $65 million and they got a library. They just got a video library. UFC did? Yeah, they didn't get shit. They didn't get Fedor. Fedor was the big dog. At one point in time he was kicking everybody in the legs. I remember him. Fucking everybody up. Slamming them, armbarring them, fucking people up standing. He was complete. And he was at the same time where Cain Velasquez was in his prime. And that was the fight that they tried to put together. But the Russians, because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore because the contracts with Pride were all bullshit, they had to deal with these Russian gangsters. And these Russian gangsters were like, they wanted a piece of the promotion. They wanted a lot. And the UFC wasn't willing. It got very contentious. contentious like the UFC had to up their security it got it got sketchy yeah it got sketchy you know they're they're bad dudes those are bad dudes right you know but it's just as a fan we were robbed we were robbed of like one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport and there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs where you're like, God, we got to see that happen. For a while, it was Floyd and Manny, right? For a while. And then after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny, it took a little shine off of that. And then eventually they fought, but Manny had a hurt shoulder. And now they're going to do it again. They're both 50. It's crazy. You're going to watch it, though. I'm going to watch it. Fuck yeah, I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch him fight Mike. I think that's crazy. He's going to have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Mike is so much bigger than him. He's so much bigger than him. He's not going to land a fist on Mayweather. Right. It not after his last performance Yeah I think Tyson just needs to get it What do you think was going on with that the last one It looked a little bit like sparring Yeah I don know I think it was scripted Yeah. I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves. Like, you could just, it was taking all that he could not to, like, hit him. It was just like, it's heartbreaking to see an icon go out like that. Yeah. You know, and. But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old. That's nuts. Yeah, but still, he shouldn't have been in there at all. I think it's other ways. Yeah. It's other ways for people. But what did he get? He got at least 20, right? Yeah, but still, I think. But I think he needed that money. Yeah, but with all his connections and things like that, I think people could have put him in the right position to make some money. If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest. but you know how it is. When there's a guy like that that's a big name, usually everybody around him pretends they're looking out for their best interests, but there's always lawsuits later on. You find out someone was stealing money or not paying him what he deserved. There's always a bunch of bullshit involved, unfortunately, especially if you're not business-minded, which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't. Most fighters concentrate on fighting. To be business-minded, that's a giant distraction. distraction you got to pay attention to all this other shit on top of that it's generally not how they think right you know i mean look at floyd like floyd spends money like it's a tap like he's got a tap just let's just like unlimited amount of money money's just flowing and even as much money as he's made in his career which he's probably made as much if not more money than any boxer ever like there's all these lawsuits like he hasn't been paying things and he owes money on this and those money on that and it's like and then he's got to come out of retirement yeah that's that's tough yeah that's tough i think it's just the lifestyle that floyd lived yes i think he can't fathom to just live a modest lifestyle it's like he gotta be lavish right he's gotta have those videos where he shows you all the watches where he opens the case up you know All the money, he got to show that. He got a million dollars in his backpack. Yeah. You know, he got the latest watch and the latest car. And look what I just bought. And when you get into latest watches and latest cars you get into that shit Like boy that money goes quick Bugattis are like million There watches that are million That's crazy. So you buy a watch and a car, you're down $10. That's nuts. That's nuts. Crazy. I remember Iram Barkley was talking about that. Iram Barkley, when he was in his prime, was hanging out with all these professional athletes. and everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that, and he was keeping up with these people. Like, you got to keep up with the Joneses. And he just found himself, like, draining all of his money. He was talking about it. Like, that was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money. Mm-hmm. They trying to keep up? Yeah, which I thought was funny. I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ochocinco. He was talking about it. Wow, his jewelry fake. Yeah, he was wearing fake jewelry. But who would know? What's that? Who would know? No one would know. Exactly. It's like when they look at him. Flying economy. He was sleeping at the stadium. So he didn't have to pay for the apartment. So smart. Yeah. So clever. You know? But that's a guy like preparing. Nobody's going to question him. Exactly. Oh, man. This NFL star, he got money. Yeah. So we're not going to question if his dime is real or not. Well, you really can't tell. Right. I can't. You can't. You can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on them. That's why they say we got these diamond testers. Yeah. We want to test your diamonds now. Like, come on now. Yeah. It's just all illusion anyway. Do you fuck around with any of that stuff? I got jewelry, but I'm not paying all that money for no jewelry. Yeah. No, we can get some sponsorships. Yes. But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jewelry? Nah, that ain't me. It's just not smart. Yeah. And you don't get out of it what it costs. Like if you think about how much blood, sweat, what? Sometimes you do. What do you get? Now, if you buy it from the factory, now if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store, you know, you might can get some money back from it. You can flip it. Yeah. That's true. Now, buzz downs, no. But if you get it from the actual store, the Protect store, the Rolex store. That's true. Them type of stores. Keep the box and the papers. It's worth a lot of money. It's worth more money. Then it's an investment. But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, no. You don't ever see a billionaire with no chain. No. You see it with a good watch, though. Yeah. It's worth more money. It's worth more money. Then it's an investment. But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, no. You don't never see a billionaire with no chain. No. You see it with a good watch, though. Yeah. See it with a good watch. Yeah, that's true. It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that money, the trappings of wealth, competing with others, getting your own private jet, all that stuff. It's like, ooh. I learned from them. I learned from them because the people with the real wealth, you don't know they got the wealth. Right. You know? Right. They walk around plain Jane clothes, know nothing. Yep. You know, but the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth. Right. So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week. Yes. And sneak around. Yeah. Yeah. And keep it. Yeah. There you go. That's the thing. Because a lot of what wealth is is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. Just have that money invested. Have that money making money for you. Don't spend it all on stupid shit. Live a modest life. Live a normal life. You're much better off. Especially a professional athlete because you have such a small window of time. I mean, a lot of men don't even make their real money until they're deep in their 40s and 50s. Or the end of the 30s. Yeah. Look at Floyd. When he fought De La Hoya, then he fought Gotti, then he started making some real money. Yes. But I mean, that's for a pro athlete. But for most of these really wealthy business people, most of them, unless they're tech investors, they're making their money later in life. And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth. But when you're an athlete, you've got a small window of your prime. Your prime is essentially like maybe 20 years. Maybe 20 years you can make money, from 20 to 40. But for a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40 is the end. Or unless you're Bernard. Bernard was fighting at a world-class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy. Crazy. Crazy. That's because he takes care of his body. 100%. You don't put nothing crazy in it. He never gets out of shape. never puts any bullshit in his body, and also that mindset of what he learned when he was incarcerated Like discipline is everything Discipline Discipline knowing you never going back to that Don buy anything stupid Don't be dumb with your money. Don't be dumb with your body. Take care of yourself. Never get out of shape. Always keep your conditioning up so when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again. You're already in shape. Now you're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor-sharp edge. I think that goes to, like I said before, the people that you have around you, you know, that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from. You know, when they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they be like, hey, man, we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go. Or they'll call you, be like, let's go run. I'm not doing that. Let's go jog or let's go to the gym or let's go eat some healthy food. people that want to see you be successful, not the ones that say, hey, let's go party, let's go drink, let's go do this. Let's do cocaine. I think those are the people that you need to get from around you. 100%. The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool with them seeing you doing that. Yeah, that's also the problem with an entourage too. Yeah, for sure. These guys that roll with an entourage, you always got one dude who's fucking up in that entourage. There's conflicts in the entourage between dudes, and it's like you're managing a whole team of knuckleheads. It's like, oh, God. Just so that you can roll deep when you show up at a place. You have 30 dudes hop out of SUVs. Oh, he's here. He's here. Look at that group behind him. I don't need none of that. That's beautiful. I don't need none of that. That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example. I'm glad you live the way you live. I really am. I really am because I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this. When you were training for Canelo, what did you do different? So knowing that you're going to be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what did you do different in terms of did you do anything different about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare? I know you were thinking about that fight for a long time, but when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you were going to be fighting him at 68, what did you do different? To be honest, I didn't do nothing different. Really? It's crazy. Like all my fights, there's nothing different. You know we trained for me me getting sharper what I need to work on what I lacking in But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet my strength and condition coach he got me in February He called me up. He like, hey, we're going to get this fight. He just kept saying we're going to get it. So you need to be working out now. So this way before I ever got the Canelo fight. So I'm like, all right, so you come over to my house. We'll work out, we'll work out, we'll work out. What kind of stuff were you doing? Just strength work. Just strength work. Like deadlifts? Like what kind of stuff? Deadlifts, strength condition, like deadlifts, working on good legs and things like that. And just getting my body just, you know, back to where it need to be, you know. And he just like, man, you got to strengthen up your shoulders and things like that. And because quiet is kept, I had just had shoulder surgery. You did? Yeah. So I just, you know, there's a lot of things that I go through in training, but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse. You know, that's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But, yeah, he was just like, man, we got to work. We got to work. What was the shoulder injury? Labrum. Labrum. Yeah. So did you get it sewed back up? Yeah. Did you get stem cells shot in there at all? No, no, no. No? I just had surgery on the front and the back. I wish I talked to you about that. Yeah. Could have got you in. Yeah. I didn't get in on my left shoulder. So I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left in a Gamboa fight. Really? Yeah. And you never got it fixed? Never. Is it okay now or does it fuck with you? It's still a tore. Really? But the doctors say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to get surgery. Do you feel it? Does it bother you? Sometimes, but not really. It bothers me sometimes, but not crazy. How long are you down for? I leave after this. Damn. But the right one, that was crazy. Like, it was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majumah fight. Oh, really? Yeah, after the Majumah fight. It was, like, throbbing. Then it was just like, man, we better get it done. But he was just on me, like, we got to do physical therapy. We got to do this. We got to do this. And it was just like, all right, let's go. So he was just on me, and he was just speaking it into existence. He was like, man, you're going to get this fight. I can feel it. I can feel it. So like I started training for Canelo in February I wasn you know more so doing boxing workout but I was just getting my body prepared to you know go to camp and when I start back to go So strength work is like the basics, strength training. But like what kind of conditioning were you doing? Oh, nothing different, like running, swimming, things like that. And you didn't try to put on any weight? Just tried to like be able to walk the way it is? Just tighten it up, you know, with the strength work. Just tighten it up. That was it. Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder. I could get you back in town. There's a place called Wastewell that I work with here that does stem cells that helps so many fighters out. A lot of UFC guys come here. A lot of pro athletes come here. NFL guys come here just to get stem cells. It's like a state-of-the-art facility. It's really good, and it could help you. Yeah. Just, I bet it could heal that labrum. Probably. Yeah. We'll see. Especially now because you're not going to beat it up as much anymore. Yeah. Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out. You look great. No, I'm actually not. Not working out at all? Nothing? No, I've been chilling. You earned it. Hey, I've been putting on my time with my kids and just, you know, relaxing and not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning. Did they offer you a rematch? No. They didn't? Because there was talk that they offered you a rematch, but you wanted $100 million. Nah, that's a lie. All internet bullshit. That's a lie. There wasn't even no rematch in the contract. There was no conversation about a rematch. There still hasn't been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Canelo said that he won a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch or anything like that? So let's put that out there. Is there a number that would bring you back? I don't know. Like, me personally, I can't say it is, you know. You're just not compelled. Yeah, not at all. You did it. Yeah. Did it perfect. It's like I'm not. The motivation, I'm always motivated by competing and, you know, things like that. But, like, when it comes to, like, boxing, it's like I did it all. Right. Like it's like I checked everything off the checkbox. So it's like, it wasn't close. Right. You know? Right. I beat him, you know, decisively. So what am i like uh it wasn't close right you know right i beat him you know decisively so what what am i doing it for i think i might have given him one or maybe two rounds more like one yeah it was mostly there was i think it was like maybe the fifth he had a really good yeah the fifth round he had a good yeah but other than that man especially the ninth round and he headbutted me he headbutted me on purpose did he? yes I was like man he was like sorry champion I was like he just got a little angry a little frustrated it's a fight anytime I'm in a fight I don't complain about nothing if somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me below the waist I never complain because I'm so aggressive. I'm like, it's a fight. You know what I mean? Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win. It's up to this referee to step in because if he don't, then I'm going to take matters into my own hands and I'm going to do the same thing. So I don't complain. I'm just like, bam. I was a little frustrated and I was like, man, all right. All right, breathe. Let's get back to work. Yeah, don't lose your composure. Yeah, for sure. That's the problem with getting angry, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but yeah, that ninth round, that's when you really start separating. Yeah. You really start pouring it on. I was wondering if you're going to stop them. When the ninth round was coming, when you were cracking them with some big shots, I'm like, whoa. So I told my coach when we was in there, he was like, you don't got to do that. You don't got to, because they know me, and I'm like, man, I can go for it. And it's just like, they just know me. They know my demeanor, and it was like, you don't got to give them a chance. just keep doing what you're doing you're boxing the shit out of them you you winning hands down don't give them a chance you don't gotta box them you don't gotta do that you winning so it's just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because that's I have that much faith in them if they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight that's what I'm gonna do because that's the belief I have in them you know and I just like all right the last round I was like all right let me win this round and separate myself you know And I felt like I hurt him bad in that round Yes But it boxing Yeah Well he got a crazy chin Yeah. He's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's something unusual. No. You don't think so? No, they said redheads is hard to knock out. It's proven. Is it? Yeah, I Googled it. What is they called? Gingers? Yeah, gingers. Yeah. I promise you, when you look it up. Well, they have a higher pain tolerance, supposedly. Yes, yes. When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin, she's a nurse, and she said, yeah, them gingers, they hard to put to sleep, even when you giving them the aesthetics to go to sleep. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Anesthesia. Redheads often possess unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain like heat or pressure, but requiring 19 to 20% more general anesthesia. No. Wow. Or higher. 19 to 20% is a lot. Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy. largely due to the mutated mc1r gene which affects nerve sensitivity can lead to increased sensitivity to pain and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids interesting interesting increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting when she told me that i googled it and i was like damn this is why canelo you know i mean it can take so many good shots that does make sense well you know Neanderthals supposedly had red hair so maybe like redheads have more Neanderthal genes probably Neanderthals were brutally strong I wonder if that's where it comes from I thought she was playing at first that's crazy she was like man when we be trying to put them to sleep it'd be harder to put them to sleep than normal people so I started googling and I was like you're fucking right 19-20% is nuts That's a lot. That's like the difference between killing someone and them just going to sleep. Like you give them an extra 20%, they might not wake up. Facts. That's crazy. 19% to 20% is wild. Yeah. Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley, and I didn't know this, but Canelo has always been riding horses since he was young. That's good for his balance. Yeah. And the legs. And the legs, yeah. It's his base. Yeah. That a big part of it Also he got that thick fucking neck and big square head like you been doing an iron neck all his life Research says Neanderthals have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to pain Interesting. Than most humans. More sensitivity? Yeah. Lower threshold. Interesting. That's like the opposite. Wow. Even though they're redheaded. So he ain't one of them. He ain't one of them. He the other one. It's one of those Mexican redheads. Right. Yeah, it's wild. That's crazy. But, yeah, I never thought the horse thing. Like, Lampley was explaining. It was like, yeah, the balance and the legs because you're constantly squeezing down on that horse. And you're constantly adjusting and your core and everything. I'm like, oh, I never even thought of that. I would just think, fucking why are you riding horses when you're a world champion? Don't do that. People fall off horses. They break their fucking neck. Don't do that. Yeah, I've seen a guy break his arm. they wanted me to take a picture on the horse and my bro man he was like man i don't know about these fucking horses these horses be crazy i said man i rode horses before he was like yeah but it's a lot of people around and he asking the guy not about the horses and the other guy was like yeah he couldn't get on this horse so i get on the horse i take the horse i take the picture and i get off no longer than like 10 minutes this guy on the on his own horse his horse just buck go crazy buck him off boom he broke his arm this in the parade and the horse is just running wild i'm like he said see see this is what i was telling you he was going crazy he was like see i told you yeah but it wasn't the same horse it was a different horse yeah but he was just like see that's why i was telling you these horses be fucking crazy yeah you just never know with animals you just my oldest daughter got into horses for a while one of her friends used to do those things where you know they the horse jumps over a thing like you know they have like a whole obstacle course and she was getting into that and she fell once and she was okay and then she fell a second time she hurt her wrist pretty bad i was like honey you gotta stop you can't be doing this is too dangerous because like those kind of injuries you get falling off a horse especially if you get stomped, those are life-changing. Especially if you get tied up. Oh. I done seen videos of people getting buck in their legs. Oh. They just a rag dog getting beat up Getting stomped in the head Oh no no no no no Yeah horses Fuck that Fuck that I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay but like why Why do it? Yeah. Texas Ranger. Everybody wants to be a cowboy. They watch Yellowstone too many times. Everybody want to be a cowboy. It's funny. We were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime. and you're talking about burbles. Yeah. But I've been going down this burble rabbit hole, those mastiffs. I'm fascinated by them, man. The South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions and hyenas away from the farms. And we were talking about coyotes, like you got land now. You're just relaxing now. So I like it. Separated from everything, got some space. yeah but it's crazy because when i was building a house you know a lot of people was like oh he he's building a house on the aerospace money and this and i and i and this i'm like dude do you know how long the process is of building houses like this is not no week or two two month deal you know i mean like it's years yeah like just from design to the beginning of construction it's yours for sure you gotta go pick out every fucking thing in the house you know i bought that land in 2016 oh really wow and i just was sitting on it it was a house that there already you know i had it rent out to one of my buddies my best friend at that you know and when the time came i had more kids so you know it was better that i waited than to build then so i just was like man it's time you know it's more peaceful out there the kids they ride the four-wheelers out there where we can shoot out there nice we can we can do whatever we want out there and it's just you know peaceful to wake up to the sunrise and you know the the nature calling yeah ain't nothing like it that's the dream it's definitely the dream yeah for a lot of people that's nice that's nice It's nice to see someone just setting their life up right. Yeah. You know? I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all. I'm more competitive in other sports, you know? Like what? Like basketball, football. Anything. I ain't going to lie. Anything I do, it's like I got to compete. I'm more competitive in other sports, you know? I'm more competitive in other sports, you know? Like what? Like basketball, football. Anything. I ain't going to lie. Anything I do is like I got to compete. I got to compete. Darts, pool, like whatever. You remember I came in here like, you want to play pool? You're like, let's do it. I was like, no, I'm just playing. You can't kick my ass on camera. I heard that you was good. I fucked Lex Lewis up. Yeah. He was talking a lot of shit. Lennox Lewis never got a shot. I ran two racks on him, and he was like, we're done. I came in here pump faking you. I knew, though. Already knowing. I just like to have fun. Well, everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive. That's the problem, though, is unfortunately some of them get involved in gambling. That's the Michael Jordan thing. That's what we were just talking about. me and Dre. He was like, you gamble? I said, man, I ain't never gambled. Good for you. A lot of people was always asking me, why you don't gamble in your fights? I'm like, no, I don't gamble at all. Good for you. You know, they was like, oh, well, we see you, when you, when you gambled on the streamer, you know, Aiden Ross, I said, that was only because he called me out with my brother. What did you do? What was that? He bet me 10,000 that Tia Fimo was going to whoop Shakur. Oh, that's a crazy bet. You know what I mean? So it was just like. That's a silly bet. He called me out on live, you know, stream. So I'm never going to back down from that. Of course. I'm riding with Shakur until the wheels fall off. That's also like if I was making odds, I'd put him like a six to one. Yeah. Like that's a crazy flat out bet. Yeah. You're not even getting any odds on the money and you're putting it on T. No disrespect to Tiafimo, but I think that Shakur is, he has the potential to be an all-time great yeah he will be i believe so he will be all he got to do is keep doing what he's doing stay focused yeah and that's it it's just with with fighters like shakur devin it's all about staying focused you know when these young fighters get to the the pinnacle of boxing and they got everything at their disposal Sometimes they get caught up in the limelight and the things that really don matter You know and long as they stay focused and keep their eye on the prize of where they want to go and where they want their legacy to land they gonna be just fine yeah because it's easy for them to get caught up and want to be a fan pleasing fighter you know listening to the masses oh they need to fight like this or i don't want to see don't fight because all they do is run or all they do is fight like this and they pity pat they ain't got no power this and that it's boxing they winning all they got to do is keep winning that's it well look at floyd later in his life like floyd later in his life fought so safe but yet made so much money because he talked so much shit for sure people were spending money hoping he was gonna lose and he's not the first one that did that tyson yeah roy jones jr yeah muhammad ali yeah and i always i said this when i was with ty ring i said why is it only the black fighters that gotta talk shit to to sell like what mma it's white fighters too conor mcgregor no no no conor McGregor, you know, I say he one of us, you know, because they was treated like black people over there where he from. You know, a lot of people don't know that. Oh, yeah. A lot of Irish. You know, they was they was treated just like us. So, you know, I consider him one of us, you know. But at the same time, you know, in boxing, it's always the black fighters got to be the ones that step out and play this circus role and, you know, be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate them. But the ones that don't, like Andre Ward, Terrence Crawford, Tim Bradley, you know, they boring or they can't sell, things like that. is you judging me for what I say or what I do in the ring? Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent boxing. I knock people out. Of course. That's what people want to see. They want to see action. I'm going to give them action. But I think for casuals, they want to see a lot of shit talking too for some reason. They want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person But they pick and choose They do sometimes Yeah they do sometimes But I mean look Tyson Fury talks a lot of shit Oh yeah And obviously one of the greatest of all time Talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets. Singing and shit. Yeah. After the fights, that guy's great. In his drawers. In his drawers and his cup. Legendary. He's a legend. Legendary. He's a legend. I mean, that guy. But he's from a different country. Sure. You know what I mean? So you got to understand, like, he bringing those people over here, and they're going to support him win, lose, or draw. You know, when we went over to the U.K. and we watched Amir Khan fight Kell Brook, it was an electric fight. And those guys had losses, been both stopped and all that. You know, but those people came out to support like a motherfucker. Oh, yeah. And I left that arena like, God damn, man, I wish I was, you know, from the U.K., you know, like, because the way they support boxing, they don't look at, oh, since you lost, you know, we're not going to support you. They look at, no, these is warriors and we're not going to stop supporting them because they lost. That's true. That is true about the U.K. America, they like, man, you got your ass whooped on to the next. You're bummed. You're washed. You ain't as good as you said you was or we thought you was. and it's just like they chew you up and spit you out. And it's like, God damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top of a sport that everybody's gunning from you? You know, that's shit hard. Yeah, that's the culture of America, though, right? It's a bit of a problem. Yeah. It disgusts me with fighting. It's not like that in the UFC, though. It is. Not so much. There's plenty of people. Well, the UFC, it's not as important to be honest. I'm about to say it's only like a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated. Very few. You know, you got Khabib. You got Jon Jones. He had that one little loss. That's a bullshit loss. Yeah, but everybody knows that was a bullshit loss. That's it. My boy, Suhudo, he just finally lost with not too long ago. Well, he lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on. Then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title. But like, everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that and they be at the top of the top You know and everybody still support them but don nobody go oh he got five losses he trashed he did that no i just that true maybe it was off night you know there's something to that because i think it's more difficult to not lose in mma there's just too many different styles there's too many different approaches too many variables and it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight when You're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit. Jiu-jitsu. You're doing training, jiu-jitsu. You're manipulating joints. There's so many different things that can get fucked up. We think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands, just boxing, shoulders, back, knees. Ribs. Ribs, yeah. Neck. Yep, neck, sure. Water. Yeah, yeah. And then add getting dumped on your head. Add getting kneed in the face. Add getting your legs kicked. knees buckled toes broke toes broke yeah i mean perera fought a world title fight with a broken toe yeah just came in and fought with it and afterwards toes all fucked up crooked the side and he like adjusts it pops it into place yeah it's tough for them for combat sports you know and people don't know like i said they don't know what we go through we don't never walk in a a a world-class fight, you know, the same or 100% healthy. Like, everybody just be like, oh, man, I'm 100%. No, the fuck you're not. It's not possible. There's always going to be something that's bothering you. Yeah. If you're going through a 10-week camp, how is it even possible to not have something? If they bullshit, but it's going to show in the fight. Right, right. It shows in the fight. But don't they, everybody always says, nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going into this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that. Nobody says that. No. I mean, it's just, it's the game. When they talked about my shoulder, you know, before the Canelo fight, I was just like, I don't know. Tell him to hit me in both of my shoulders. Like, it don't matter. Like, my shoulder is healed. Like, yeah. How long did it take before it felt 100% again? After the fight. Really? Yeah. Because I got it on Halloween. Oh, you got it in October. Yeah. And then how many months did you have to recover? I fought September. Whoa, okay. So that wasn't even a year. Not even a year. And when did you really start training hard again after the surgery? Uh, okay so that wasn't so you had not even a year and when did you really start training hard again okay so that wasn't so you had not even a year and when did you really start training hard again after the surgery uh probably april okay that's a good amount of time yeah if people don't realize like shoulders are such a complicated joint there's all this different movement and it still wasn't like like 100 100% after I fought. Because you didn't have your strength all the way back. Even after you fought. Yeah, like it wasn't 100%. So it wasn't 100% in the fight. Mm-mm. That's crazy. I always tell people, like, if you watch my jab and my hook in the Canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook, my prior fights, you know, in Majumov and Spence, you'll see the difference. Really? But the blind eye wouldn't even notice it. Right. They would just be like, oh. Well, it's still as effective. Yeah. But then when they know, they'd be like, it wasn't as snappy. It wasn't as hard. You kind of was just like landing out there. So that's just little key little things. But now it's 100%? Oh, yeah, it's good now. Wow. And the left one doesn't bother you really? the left one it bothered me when it's overused you know but like in a fight nah I don't think none of that shit bothered me do you have any plans to come back in town nah can we get you back in town I never I never come to Austin you know the the only time I ever came here was this podcast never ever been here in my life really until I came here oh it's a great city yeah Julie always talked about it so many good restaurants So many good places. She took me to the college and all that and, you know, reminiscing because she went to college here and she just loved it here. So she's like, this is the bars that we went to. This is this, this, this. I'm like, oh, Julie, you're a happy place, huh? She was like, I just love here. Well, why not move here? It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder taken care of. It'll change your life. Stem cell is wild, man. It's crazy what it can do. which regenerates tissue everything heals but like within like weeks you start feeling better you're like God everything just feels looser for sure I had so many friends that were like on the verge of getting surgery like i don know doctor says i need surgery get stem cells everything good i had a full length uh rotator cuff tear i went to the doctor six months after the stem cells he's like this is the craziest thing i've ever seen he's like that tear doesn't even exist anymore it's gone completely healed it's crazy like stem cells are nuts man and they're getting better at it all the time like it's just pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it surgeons hate it like doctors hate it because it's gonna it's gonna cost them money because there's a bunch of people yeah there's a bunch of people that are gonna get treated with stem cells that don't need surgery right and afterwards they're like oh I'm good because the doctors like when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail and these doctors the way they make their money is cutting you and they all want to cut you and it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries, how many different injuries you can heal with stem cells. It's pretty remarkable. My doctors tried to avoid cutting me. Did they? Well, that's good. So they waited all the way until... That's a good doctor. You know? That's a good doctor. Until it was like we got to. Mm-hmm. And that's after the Majumah fight, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'd love to get you back in here because I really think they could help that. For sure. Yeah. especially you got your whole life ahead of you now you don't want you know yeah you don't want that bothering you fucking with you you'll be able to do whatever you want and especially now because you're not training hard oh it'll heal good yeah it'll heal because that's the problem a lot of guys they get the stem cells and they go back to training in a few weeks and they kind of it's not 100 healed and they tweak it a little bit and you know but now if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do something like that. Yeah. So what is your plans now? Now that you're on top of the world, you did it. What does it feel like? It feels, man, like it's supposed to. Like it's supposed to. It feels like it's supposed to. Like a lot of people, they ask me, they say, man, how I feel? Like how's the retirement life? I'm like the same. Like nothing in my life has changed, but the people everywhere else congratulating me and things like that. But as far as my living aspect of my life it the same When I fighting training I focused on the fight but after that it my kids the gym, things like that. Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all? Because I think you'd be great at that. I don't. I'd be chilling. I don't be liking to be in the media talking. I'd be avoiding the media. I'd be avoiding them. You know how some people, they want to be all up in the limelight and things like that. Yeah. I'd be avoiding them. They'd be like, Tens, can we get in here? I don't know right now. I don't want to talk. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming in here, though. Oh, yeah, for sure. But a lot of people ask me that. Do you want to be like all the other fighters and be a commentary? Nah. Good for you. I'll be cool. Good for you. That's going to help you so much. It's going to help you so much because it's the people that crave that limelight when it all goes away. Then they're like, well, who am I? I thought I was special. I thought I was special. You know, I want to be the guy when, oh, he's here, he's here. You know, they want to be constantly in the limelight, showing up at red carpets, all that. I avoid all that shit, too. I don't want to have nothing to do with that. I know who I am, you know, internally. you know so I can't nobody you know tell me who Terrence Crawford is so I'm happy in my own skin always been happy in my own skin and I believe that's how I got to the point where I'm at now you know when nobody believed in me I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along When people told me I was a bad businessman, okay, look at me now. You know, when people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have done and I did what I wanted to do, look at me now. So now it's like everybody like, man, this dude was new all along. It's like, yeah, because I'm not a follower. I'm not going to listen to people that has never done anything in their life and never took no chances or no risk to tell me what I can and what I can't do. So I'm happy in my own skin. I'm happy, you know, whether they chant my name or whether they not. As long as my family love me and my family there and they good they well taken care of then that the only thing that makes me happy That beautiful I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do. I really do because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person, living flashy in front of everybody. and it's a foolish adventure. It's temporary. It's temporary. And they don't understand that. Like, they only chant your name for a moment, you know. It's very temporary, you know, and they'll turn on you in a heartbeat. You know, just do something crazy or lose a match that you're not supposed to lose or be up against one of your rivals and you lose and then everybody's going to turn their back on you. 100%. You know, and you're going to be sitting there lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there. He had everybody in his corner. Now he at his lowest. Now they making fun of him. Now they taking pictures. And, you know, I hit some up. He makes fun of himself too, though. Yeah, he do, but he's suffering. Yes. You know, and I hit some up, and I try to encourage him, and I send him messages, and, you know, and you got to be there for people when they're at their lowest. That's great. He was a very talented guy, but, again, that's what you said. Like, he's a guy who really got caught up in it. Mm-hmm. That's a perfect example. What's Gervonta doing now? I don't know. Is he on the run? I don't know. I don't know nothing about that guy. I think he's on the run. At least he was, like, recently. That's unfortunate. He's so fucking talented. he's such an unusual style too. Very economical, throws very few punches, but when he does, it's boom. Explosive. Super, super explosive. I mean, this is a great time for boxing though. It really is. It's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now. And they're fighting each other. That's the most important thing that I can say is the fights is being made whether you on this side or that side the fights has been made the promoters is working together within with each other um so no matter what do you attribute that to you think that's riad season of course Oders is working together within each other. Oders is working together within each other. So no matter. What do you attribute that to? Do you think that's Riyadh season? Of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Turkey came in, changed up the game. You know, he went to the fighters. You know, hey, I got this, I got this. We want this fight to happen. And the fighters are like, whoa, we know we're not going to get this. and nothing. Nobody would have never seen no B-Vol better be if fight. That fight would have never happened. Them promoters are not going to pay that money. You know, there are so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid for. Top Rank would have never paid the money that Turkey paid to see Shakur and T.O. fight. Right. You know, so we got so many fights because of him. And we need to be appreciative of him because without him, none of those fights would have happened. 100%. The Canelo fight wouldn't have happened for me. The Majumaw fight wouldn't have happened for me. And so many more. Absolutely. I think that's very exciting. But that's what the sport needed. It needed someone to come in with deep pockets that just said, let's make these fights happen. And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on the rise right now. People was talking about boxing more. People is more supportive about boxing now. And people is tuning in to not only Riyadh season shows, but all shows. Look at Clarissa. Yep. She just put on a hell of a performance. Hell of a performance. And it was rocking in that moment. Yeah. It was crazy. It was sold out over 16,000 people as a woman. I know, right? Man, she doing her thing. And people don't give women enough credit. Like, she bringing out stars, you know, and, man, it was a good atmosphere in there. Yeah. And it was a very skillful fight. Yeah. They came to bang. They came to bang. I said, y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round. Ooh-wee. But you could see it in her face. She wanted to knock out so bad. I was like, ugh, she's a dog. She's ferocious. Yeah. And so skillful, too. Yeah. You know but she a unique individual star in a realm where there not a lot of women stars Yeah But I think a person like her can encourage others And there could be more. And when you have one star, a lot of times it does sort of open up the landscape for more. For sure. For sure. Because she. She transcends. Yeah. She transcends boxing. Like a lot of people know who Clarissa Shields is. A lot of people know who she is. outside of boxing. And there's not a lot of other female boxers you could say that about. You know, there's only been a few ever, like Christy Martin. Leila Ali. Leila Ali. Ann Wolf. Yeah. Ann Wolf was good. Yeah, Ann Wolf. Woof. That was crack. And she was a ferocious trainer, too. Remember when she was training Kirkland? Yes. Bro. With the bag on the back of the truck. Oh, man. She would make him go through hell. But when he was with her, he was phenomenal. Wasn't he undefeated with her? I think he was undefeated with her. And she wasn't with him when he fought Canelo, unfortunately. A couple of fights, I don't think she was with him. But I think it was too much. Like, it was too hard. Like, he didn't want to do it. She's a tough lady, man. She would put you through some fucking hell. Her training, like, there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp. And it's like, my God. And for a woman to be able to do that, you know, It just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was. But his performances showed as well. Yes. You know? Yes. Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical. Yes. You know? And taking everything from him. Mm-hmm. And putting him in a room and now he's training. It was kind of like Rocky. Mm-hmm. You know? You ain't got no TV. All you doing is work, eat, sleep. Yeah. Shit, boxing. Yeah. You know? And it's just like, damn. I got into old boxing footage real recently over the last like six months. I've been watching a lot of old camps. And there's some great YouTube channels that shows Hagler's camps. And Hagler's camps were phenomenal. It was so good. Like Hagler was rich and he would go to Provincetown, this shitty little fucking town on the Cape. No disrespect, Provincetown. I'm just saying. And compared to where he could be. He could be in New York City. He could be anywhere he wanted. But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on the beach and live in a room with no TV no nothing just eat sleep train He was sparring 100 rounds a week I mean it was wild Watching him train was incredible It was incredible. And when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned. No stone unturned. And it was just all discipline and drive and focus. And he was another guy. Didn't get his due. didn't get his due until he stopped, really until he stopped Hearns. That's when people really woke up. You know, all the inside boxing people were very aware, but it took a while. It took a while before the rest of the world caught up. Because it wasn't flashy? Yeah, it wasn't flashy. Just dominate. Just break people's wills. The Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time because Mugabe was putting people in the hospital. That was tough. Oh, my God. Mugabe hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man, had a chin from hell. You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles that, like, they did a cat scan on him, like a scan of his head. They said the muscles on the side of his head is like he was born with headgear. Or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long. Yeah, just, ah. But I love watching those old school training footage videos. like there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people should see stuff like that just to appreciate the amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight because I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day over and over and over and over and over until you're finally in the ring. Like the ring is almost the easy part. The easiest. It's tough. It's like, you know, when we in Colorado and we got to run the mountain, like sometimes I'll be like, man, I ain't running this mountain. Like I don't care. And then it'll be like, you're going to get your ass whooped. You better get your ass up. or Bo will come in there and be like, let's go. I'm like, man, Bo, let's go. Bo got this saying, anytime I'm giving him some push, he be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great let go I like that great to have someone with you like that Hey right I like here we go he been with you from the beginning from the start that so big too and it crazy because the days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best you know and cause you conquered that inner bitch that thing inside you that wants to not do it yeah like I'm the fucking man yeah Stephen be like he was like when you don't want to do something It's like you're trying to hurry up and get it over with, so you're trying to do it fast. So, like, my best times is when I don't want to do it. Like, my best sparring is when I don't want to spar. Because it's like, I'm like, all right, I'm about to fuck you up because I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit. You know, I don't want to get hit. So it's like your best days is when you don't want to do it. Yeah. You know, that's when I perform the best in the gym and stuff like that. So, yeah, man, a lot of young fighters, when they come and see my training, they see what I go through three times a day. So it's eat, sleep, shit, work. You know, they like, man, you train too hard. I'm like, ain't no such thing. You know, Tim Bradley told me, hey, man, you got to rest. You got to chill out. Andre Ward, man, you got to rest. you know and these last two training camps i took on their advice and took it just a day off like in a week like every week instead of training seven days a week i take one day off just not doing nothing and it helped me tremendously on my recovery really because i used to just do active rest on Sunday we'll do the incline we'll just do the incline that's it in the morning early in the morning and then we have the whole day to recover but he like no you got to just take the whole day off not doing nothing just recover and as you get as I got older you know my last two training camps I took that advice and it's just like man I'm like man I could have did this years ago I was just so like locked in. Like if I take a day off, they going to have a day up on me. Right. You know? And I was just like, I can't do that. I was working. Well, it's a fine day. Right. Right. If I take a day off, they're going to have a day up on me. Right. You know? And I was just like, I can't do that. I was just working. Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns, where you put in too much work. Yeah. Like, seeing a guy fight when he's overtrained is one of the saddest things ever. It's like his drive actually fucked him. Yeah. I've seen it before. In MMA, it happens all the time. Especially guys who don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up in the morning? I used that my last two camps. And that was the only two camps you did that? My last two camps. Wow. Interesting. Interesting. So, like, everything was visual with my coaches because they've been with me so long. Right. So they know when to pull back. Right. Like, some days they'll be like, all right, you know. You're peaking. You did four rounds. Nah, we done. Like, man, I got eight rounds today. Ah, you good. be like what you good don't worry about it we'll come back tomorrow you know and i'll be like all right you know i will never question them right you know or we come in there and they'll be like all right today we're just gonna we're gonna shadow box and we're gonna hit the mitts but i never questioned them but they already knew right by watching me you know along the weeks to pull me back when yeah and then it started getting you know to me and i'm like oh okay so now i know with it like they're not gonna let me over train because they know i'm gonna give it my all every time i train and anything i do so they just pull me back like all right well we gonna just do yoga today and we're gonna do boxing work we ain't gonna do no you know strength and conditioning or we're not gonna do no road work or we're not gonna or we're just gonna swim we're not instead of running we're gonna swim you know so some days they're flip-flop that's the beauty of having a really good trainer yeah for sure and someone is really paying attention to you and real and knows you like knows the signs knows when you're a little sluggish knows when you're peaking a little early yeah yeah before you bet yeah and anybody said that you train too hard it's like compared to who compared to who you know like it's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years that your body's conditioned to go that hard. Because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon, you need like six months off I had a friend it was my friend Cameron Haynes he runs ultra marathons When he was training for a 250 mile run he was running a marathon every day Every day Most people the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. Yeah, you can. You just got to get up to that. So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and fucking off, and then they get back into camp, yeah, you can't do three hard a day like that. But if you're already in shape and you're already conditioned and you have built up this base of years and years of doing this your conditioning will be so much better one of the things that i notice in young fighters in particular especially in mma is how tired they get in a three round fight just a three round mma fight how tired they get and i'm sure they train hard but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five round fight so what is the difference well it's the years and years of building up that cardio base not fucking up your body not partying knowing how to breathe uh-huh that's the most important yeah because when i my first time at the ufc when i did strength and condition you know i was like man i'm not getting nothing out It's easy. And they was like, well, it's not meant to break you or kill you. You're going to see the difference. And I'm just like, man, when I'm doing UFC back at home, like, I'm sore. Like, I'm not sore, you know, the next day when I'm doing strength and condition here. But, like, gradually you start seeing the results. Right. You know, and it's like, damn, you know. And it's a science behind it. You know, and I was just like, in my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm used to working hard. And I'm going home and I'm like, oh, that was a good workout. I feel it. Like, psychologically, I'm like, I don't feel like I did nothing, you know, because my body isn't so in shape. You know, I'm like, man, I need to do more. And they're like, you're good. You did a lot today. You know, I'm like, all right. So, like, gradually I'm starting to see the effects. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm like, oh, okay. So maybe he was working me out too hard. You know, and I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, okay. You know, it's all a science. It really is a science And you know the problem with fighters is especially elite fighters is they so driven You know and sometimes you can let the dragon off the chain You got to like slow down. Yeah, slow down. We got to do this. We got to progress. Yes. Progress over time and get to that perfect point the week before the fight where you just settle in and then fight time. That's my guy Gavin. Gavin just like, oh, don't worry. steps. That's the beautiful thing about having someone that you can trust that really knows what they're doing. There's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes, and they might be costing themselves a little bit. But then there's a lot of lazy fighters like, yeah, I don't want to overtrain. No, no, no, you're undertraining. That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing the proper workout that you need to do to really prepare for a fight. It's just this fucking dance, man. it takes forever to learn it takes forever you know that's why like a lot of fighters they reach their prime when they get into their 30s because they get it all dialed in they know what they need they know what they need to do they know what a camp really feels like they prepare for it bennard the experience yeah you know so yeah they definitely know their body they know when they're in shape, when they're out of shape, what they need, when they need a little more. Experience is the best teacher, I would say. Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all and that wisdom. The things that you've said on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now there are hundreds of thousands of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now and that are probably like taking it all in okay because you know in the early days you don't know what the fuck to do you don't know what what's what's the what's the right approach is his approach is his approach like what's the right mentality what's the right mindset what's who are the right coaches which is a big factor you get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach and it'll limit your development yeah for sure for sure and that That goes back to styles. When I said I was trying to coach everybody to the same style when everybody ain't meant to be trained the same. Everybody don have the same mental capacity to process things the same way Some people process things different that kind of like yelling at a fighter you know that that motivated me sometimes that break fighters they like haha i'm getting that i'm doing something wrong and you know so um we look at them like man toughen up you know but nowadays it's different like everything don't flock the same with one fighter like a dude. No, you got to figure out what gets your fighter going. Yeah. Yeah, and that's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people because your livelihood depends upon another person performing, which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to live your life. That's any sports. Yep. Like I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the players and the fighters, and the athletes, they got to go out there and perform. I can tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's on you. Now, coaches, they can get out-coached. They can call the wrong plays at the wrong times, different like that. But all in all, if he go out there and miss a tackle, if he go out there and not catch the ball, why am I getting fired? They going to blame me. You know what I mean? That's true. Hey, I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him, you know, D up. So I'm getting fired because they're not performing. You're also getting fired by people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do if you're a coach. Yeah. Like if they're not a coach, how could you really understand? If you're not day in, day out with these athletes in their head, working with them, seeing what they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses. If you're not doing that, you just are seeing results. that's all you see you're judging based on results and you don't really know who's a good coach and who's not because if you're a good coach you got shit athletes yeah you can only go so far that's it and it's tough yeah it's tough to you know go across the middle and try to catch a bullet without when you know the safety about to come in later the the crazy slap on you yep you know and it's crazy to go up you know on a seven-footer trying to shoot it shoot a three like it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing you know, on a seven-footer trying to shoot a three. you know, on a seven-footer trying to shoot a three. Like, it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but they making it seem like it's easy on the outside for us. And we like, man, you didn't catch the ball. It's like, man, you try to catch that ball with three people, you know what I mean, on you, you know, coming full speed, and you got to worry about getting your feet in bounds and things like that. It's so much. Well, it's like TFMO's corner during the Shakur fight. You got to hit him. You got to hit him. Like, what do you think I'm trying to do? Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to hit him. Don't just tell me you got to hit him. Yeah. You know, and that goes into saying that everybody shouldn't be a coach. Right. You know, because now you're not giving me no instructions. You're going off of emotions. Right. And you're just telling me, hey, you got to hit him. You're not hitting him. What are you doing? Yeah. Now, what if T.O. would have said, what is you doing? Because you're not telling me nothing. You see me trying to hit him, but he's moving. You know? Like, what am I supposed to do? I'm swinging and I'm missing. Right. So tell me how to set it up to him. But there's really nothing anybody could have told him. Yeah. The gap was just too wide at that point. Right. Yeah. They should have studied more in training. But even then, it's like the problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing. It's years of setups. It's years of skills. I think when a fighter have a good coach that knowledgeable and they believe in a coach and a coach acts them to do something and they believe that that gonna work they try it you know if your coach tell you all right listen he stepping back every time you step in so that means for every time he stepped back you got to step in twice and double double the jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range and that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do and he's successful then that's a different ball game that's a different ball game because now you're listening to your coach but your coach is seeing what the other fighter is doing that's making him be more successful technical instruction there you go yeah you can't just go go out there and hit him tell me how to do i hear that shit in the corner i'm like good lord what are you saying you hear it in MMA all the time you gotta put it on him oh I didn't know oh I gotta put it on him all this time I was hoping it would just happen yeah listen man congratulations on everything you had a fantastic spectacular one of a generation career so it's beautiful to watch and as a fan I'm honored that you came in here and I think what you've done is just fucking incredible So congratulations on everything. And enjoy it. Enjoy all the rest of your life because you earned it all. Definitely. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody.