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--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Thursday, September 11th.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Coming up on the show, the murder of Charlie Kirk and the threat of political violence in America.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: We'll be right back.
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--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Charlie Kirk got a start in politics when he was in high school. Instead of getting a college degree, he started an organization that advocated for conservative politics on college campuses.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Videos of these conversations were popular on YouTube and social media.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: What we as a culture have to get back to is being able to have a reasonable disagreement where violence is not an option.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And for over a decade, this was what Kirk and his organization, Turning Point USA, were most known for.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Charlie Kirk was an important person. He rose, really, in just about 12 years from being a high school student, essentially, to being one of the most important people in MAGA world.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Unlike a lot of people you think of in the conservative ecosystem, maybe a Tucker Carlson or a Ben Shapiro or a Steve Bannon, he didn't just engage people and talk and act as a commentator.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He built things. He built a significant campus outreach organization that was considered the largest organization of young people on the right.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: In 2023, Turning Point USA spent over $90 million on its activities. The group said it had chapters at more than 1,000 college campuses.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And Kirk continued to expand his operations. He built a church network. He built a media operation.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And most recently he moved from producing media to actual electioneering, actually knocking on doors, trying to get people elected, a on-the-ground, boots-on-the-ground organization that had some role in 2024 and was set to grow.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: And that made him an important figure and kind of the leader of this conservative megaphone that is so important in a world where the legacy media is less and less the way that people communicate with their audiences.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: You talk about him as a conservative activist. Can you list some of Charlie Kirk's political beliefs?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Well, I know that he's someone who started with a secular point of view and a free trade point of view.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And he became someone who was religious. I want a revival of Christianity in this country. I want people to give their lives to Jesus in huge numbers.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He observed the Sabbath on Saturdays, as it happens, and became an America First person.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: So he did migrate in his views and adopted the Trump agenda and fortified the Trump agenda.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Like others in this space, he was provocative.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: There's a range of personalities in the MAGA ecosystem.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: I found Charlie Kirk to be measured, provocative, but measured, not a bombastic personality.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Charlie Kirk's political beliefs echoed those of many right-wing activists.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: For instance, he was pro-life. That's why abortion should be illegal, because we have a societal obligation to protect every life.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He supported the Second Amendment and gun rights. Liberty comes at a price.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And so I believe that, yes, there will be costs and consequences of having firearm ownership, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He was also against affirmative action.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Here he is attacking high-profile Black women like Michelle Obama and Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown-Jackson.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: They're coming out and they're saying, I'm only here because of affirmative action.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Yeah, we know. You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And he was highly critical of transgender rights.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Trans people won't stop going into female locker rooms and stealing female medals and and then penalizing people for not using the right pronouns.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: His opponents saw him as a divisive figure who took incendiary positions.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Kirk was an early supporter of Trump and a close confidant of his son, Donald Trump Jr.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: In 2016, he meets Donald Trump Jr.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And for a while in that campaign, he travels with Donald Trump Jr.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And it sounds like he kind of becomes his body man, the guy who's next to Donald Trump Jr. and helps him.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And that's his entree into the Trump inner circle.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And he does become close with Donald Trump.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Donald Trump has called him one of the people most responsible for his election in 2024 and has praised him.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: In what way was Kirk influential in getting Trump elected?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He gets credit from the Trump circle for being one of the people who helped bring young voters into Donald Trump's orbit.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: As we know from the exit poll data and the election data, young people of both genders, but particularly young men, swung Republican, remarkably so.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: The large advantage that Joe Biden had among young people in 2020 shrunk significantly in 2024.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And a lot of Republicans give Charlie Kirk credit for helping move that along.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: With Trump re-elected, Kirk's profile grew even more.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He helped shape some of Trump's policies, like the use of federal funding to force universities to reject what many conservatives view as liberal ideology.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He also got involved in getting young conservatives elected.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And he continued to debate Democrats and others on the political left.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He was California Governor Gavin Newsom's first guest on his new podcast.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Because I think people need to understand your success, your influence, what you've been up to, and the fact that you're on these college campus doors.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And to your point, man, you just open up. I mean, you're like, ask me anything? Anything. Challenge me? Challenge me, whatever.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: When did this whole thing, when did you start?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Yesterday Kirk was on another college campus speaking to thousands of students
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Before the shooting he was engaged in a debate about gun violence and transgender people
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Too many
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Then Kirk was shot, and first responders quickly took him to an SUV.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: The White House later posted that he had died.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: In a statement, Turning Point USA talked about Kirk's values and passion.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: They wrote, quote, Although Charlie is gone, his legacy will endure, adding, none of us will ever forget him.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Kirk was 31 years old.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He survived by his wife and two children.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Yesterday, President Trump ordered flags to fly at half-staff in honor of Kirk.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Today, Trump said Kirk would receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: After the break, a look at the rise of political violence across the country.
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--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Can you talk about how political leaders have responded to Kirk's killing?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: I would say we've had two different kinds of responses.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: We've had the kind of response you always get after an event like this, the hand-wringing, the fretting over whether political animosity is too high, whether rhetoric is too sharp and is driving people into opposing camps.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: But at the same time, look at what the president said last night.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: He blamed, quote-unquote, radical leftists for saying horrible things about Republicans and horrible things about Charlie Kirk specifically that he says created the environment for the shooting that killed Charlie Kirk.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: And there were some Republican members of Congress who also said Democrats are to blame for this.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And of course, Democrats say, well, look at the president and his rhetoric. He's in flaming tensions.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: So on the one hand, we have appeals for calm, and on the other, we have finger pointing.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And the shooting of Charlie Kirk is part of a growing trend of political violence.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: It's absolutely fair to say that there's a string of incidents that have made it very scary for political actors to appear in public at all levels in government, or for them to do their jobs at all levels of government, from the president, who was targeted in two assassination attempts during the last presidential campaign.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Former U.S. President Donald Trump has survived an attempt on his life at a campaign rally.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: To state legislators like those in Minnesota, who were shot just this year.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark were shot and killed early this morning.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: State Senator John Hoffman and his wife Yvette were shot and are recovering in hospital
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And the shooting of Steve Scalise a Republican member of Congress in 2017
--:-- Aaron Zittner: There was also an attack on former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi husband in 2022 and an arson attack on Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro's house just this past April.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Last year, there were about 9,500 cases where members of Congress were targets of concerning statements or threats.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: That's up from about 8,000 the year before, according to U.S. Capitol police.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And threats against federal judges doubled from 2021 to 2023.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: It seems that this is happening to people from both parties. Is that something important to keep in mind?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: I'm getting a lot of letters from readers saying, this is the left. Or what about the right?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: You know, what about January 6?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: People are very eager, at least in my inbox, to say this is the fault of one side or the other.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: But again, we can point to violence against both parties.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: No matter what party you are, you're going to be looking over your shoulder at any level of government and worry about what might be out there coming for you.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Aaron says we can quantify this rise of animosity between the two parties.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Back in 2010, a poll from The Wall Street Journal and NBC News surveyed Americans about how they viewed each political party.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Back then, you know, 50 percent of one party and 40 percent of the other party had not only a negative view, but a very negative view.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: In July, when we asked, do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of either party, a slightly different question, more than 80 percent of Democrats, more than 80 percent of Republicans had a very unfavorable view of the other party.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Politics is no longer about just policy. It's become far more existential for many people.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: If the other party gets elected, they are going to impose their values on me, destroy my worldview, and destroy my way of life and the way I think about myself in the world.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: I think that's abundantly clear from the polling.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Today, Speaker of the House Mike Johnson said he was reviewing security for members of Congress.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez delayed an event in North Carolina, citing security concerns and respect for Kirk's death.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: What's next, Aaron? What are you watching for?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: We still need to know who did this and what the circumstances were of this.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: I'd like to know how the political system reacts and if this does become a moment for unification or it remains a moment for finger-pointing.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: You know, we're at a moment where there's a lot going on in the world.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: This is such a chaotic moment.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Then I have more immediate questions about politics.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: What happens to Turning Point USA?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Movements are led by charismatic leaders and Charlie Kirk was an unusual figure.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Who can step in there?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Do young people stay with the Republican Party? Do they drift away?
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And how does everything we've seen play into the 2026 elections, which are just beginning to take shape now?
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Thank you, Aaron, for your time. It's good to be with you.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: As of this afternoon, authorities have released photos of someone they say is a person of interest in the shooting.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: They also said they found a rifle in the woods near Utah Valley University.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: The weapon was wrapped in a towel with a spent cartridge still in the chamber.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: Justice Department officials said that the investigation was still in its preliminary stages.
--:-- Aaron Zittner: And the FBI is offering a reward of up to $100,000 for information leading to the identification and arrest of the shooter.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: That's all for today, Thursday, September 11th.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Additional reporting in this episode from Eliza Collins, Sadie Gurman, James Finelli, and Wall Street Journal staff.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.
