--:-- Ryan Knutson: Welcome to The Journal. I'm Ryan Knutson.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: And I'm Jessica Mendoza.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: Today, we're talking about the arrest of Pavel Durov, the billionaire CEO of messaging app Telegram. He was detained in France last month and charged with complicity in distributing child pornography, illegal drugs, and hacking software on the app.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: That's right. Pavel Durov is a well-known figure in the tech world. He's often referred to as Russia's Mark Zuckerberg.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: That's right. And his arrest is seen as a major escalation by the French government in holding tech executives accountable for the content that appears on their platforms.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Let's start with the background on Pavel Durov. He was born in the former Soviet Union in 1984 and spent some of his childhood in St. Petersburg.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: He's a computer science and mathematics prodigy, and he started building websites for his fellow students while he was in university.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: He eventually started a company called VKontakte, or VK, which became popular with millions of users across Russia and Eastern Europe.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: Durov was dubbed Russia's Mark Zuckerberg, and he left Russia in 2014 after coming under pressure from the Kremlin to share user data of Ukrainian protesters.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: He then turned his focus to Telegram, a messaging app that offers both messaging and social media-like functions, with a commitment to absolute privacy.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: The company offers secret chats with end-to-end encryption that can self-destruct, and it says it protects user conversations from snooping third parties, such as officials.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Pavel Durov has been a vocal advocate for free speech and has said that he wants Telegram to be a platform where people can communicate safely without intrusion from government authorities.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: But the same tool that gave dissidents cover also protected people with more harmful aims, like terrorists.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: In 2015 and 2016, France was hit with large-scale terror attacks, and Telegram was used by Islamic State commanders to reach out to French people living in France, spread their propaganda, and plot attacks.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: French security services began to be very concerned about Telegram being used for those purposes.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Durov was asked in an interview if he was concerned that Islamic State used Telegram, and he said that he thought that privacy and the right to privacy were more important than the fear of bad things happening, like terrorism.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: The European Union enacted a new sweeping law, the Digital Services Act, which requires social media platforms to deal with content that is illegal or harmful by having procedures in place to remove it when flagged by users and governments.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: The law came into effect late last year, and it requires companies to cooperate with European authorities in criminal investigations.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: The French government says Telegram did not cooperate with the investigation, and that's why Durov was arrested.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Prosecutors in Paris opened an investigation into child pornography shared on Telegram, and they asked the company to cooperate with the investigation.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: But Telegram says it complies with the Digital Services Act, and that it's absurd to hold Durov responsible for abuse that happens on the platform.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Pavel Durov was held when he landed on a private jet in an airport outside Paris, and he's accused of turning a blind eye to criminals using the platform and for failing to disclose details to authorities.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: He's forbidden from leaving France and must appear at a police station twice a week. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: The implications of this case are far-reaching, and it's likely to have a major impact on the tech industry.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: Matthew Dalton, our colleague, joins us to discuss the implications of this case.
--:-- Matthew Dalton: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: So, Matthew, what do you think this case says about the relationship between tech platforms and European regulators and European law?
--:-- Matthew Dalton: I think it says that the Europeans and the French in particular are determined to enforce the law. They're tightening the screws and they're not going to allow a company, even one that's not based in Europe, to flout the law in their eyes.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: And what does this mean for Telegram and Durov?
--:-- Matthew Dalton: Well, first of all, he can continue running Telegram as he has before. He'll be in France, but he can continue to do that. The question is, will he dare to continue to do that in the way that he has up to now, with very little moderation, this hands-off, anti-establishment, anti-authoritarian style, given that the French are saying that he's breaking the law by doing so.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: So, he might have to very quickly change the operating MO of Telegram and bring it into compliance with French and European law as best he sees fit.
--:-- Matthew Dalton: That's right.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Thanks for joining us, Matthew.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: And that's all for today. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
--:-- Jessica Mendoza: Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.
