--:-- [Studio music fades out]
--:-- Annie Minoff: Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Annie Minoff. It's Thursday, July 31st.
--:-- [Theme music continues for a few seconds before fading out]
--:-- Annie Minoff: Our colleague Laura Cooper covers the beverage industry. And earlier this week, she joined me in the studio for a taste test.
--:-- [Sound of glasses being placed on a table]
--:-- Annie Minoff: In front of you, you have two beverages, two cups, actually wine glasses because we are a classy show at the Journal. Both of them have Coke in them. One of them is made with cane sugar. The other one with high fructose corn syrup.
--:-- [Sound of a glass being picked up]
--:-- Annie Minoff: Oh, it's like a wine tasting, but it's Coke. Indeed. Go ahead and let's start with this glass on the left.
--:-- Laura Cooper: All right. This is definitely it. A hundred percent.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Oh, you're really confident that that's the high fructose corn syrup.
--:-- Laura Cooper: I'm very confident. Tell me about the taste.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Well, it tastes like Coke. It's got like some hints of vanilla in there. The carbonation, there's a lot of carbonation. A little spicy. You can see it on the top. It's got a little bite to it. And just tastes very familiar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: All right, let's see the wine glass on the right now.
--:-- Laura Cooper: All right. Give that a little. This one has a lot less bubbles.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Yeah, this is the real one, I think.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Yeah. Big reveal. You are wrong. It's the other way around?
--:-- Annie Minoff: Really? Your first taste was, in fact, the Coke with cane sugar. Was it?
--:-- Annie Minoff: Laura wasn't able to tell the difference between Coke made with high-fructose corn syrup and Coke made with cane sugar. But one person says he definitely can. President Donald Trump.
--:-- [Sound of a news clip plays]
--:-- Annie Minoff: So, on Truth Social, a couple of weeks ago, he made a post about this. And he said that he had been in contact with Coca-Cola about using cane sugar and that they'd agreed to do it.
--:-- [Sound of a news clip continues to play]
--:-- Annie Minoff: Quote, I have been speaking to Coca-Cola about using real cane sugar in Coke in the United States, and they have agreed to do so. And he said it was a very good move by them, and you'll see it's just better.
--:-- [Sound of a news clip fades out]
--:-- Annie Minoff: Trump's declared preference for Coke with cane sugar and his announcement that Coca-Cola would be making changes set off a frenzy of speculation about what was next for one of America's favorite drinks.
--:-- Laura Cooper: But Laura had another question. Even if Coke wanted to make the switch to real sugar, could it pull it off without going flat?
--:-- Laura Cooper: I think it would be really tough. High fructose corn syrup is in everything, and it has been for many decades, and there's just not enough sugar to go around.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Annie Minoff.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Laura Cooper is our colleague who covers the beverage industry.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Coming up on the show, why Coca-Cola embraced corn syrup and why it's so hard to turn back.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: Tuesday on NBC, Jimmy Fallon and Bozema St. John host a highly anticipated new competition show.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: I hired 10 creatives from all walks of life. They will be battling it out to see who can impress the world's biggest brands.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: This is a huge opportunity. This is the battle for the next big idea. This is not play play. We're spending millions of dollars.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: I'm so excited to embark on this adventure with all of you. Make the best idea win!
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--:-- Annie Minoff: On brand with Jimmy Fallon. Series premiere Tuesday on NBC.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: 50 million times a day At home at work or on the way there nothing like Coca nothing like Coca
--:-- [Sound of a commercial plays]
--:-- Annie Minoff: The recipe for Coca-Cola is famously secret. But when the drink debuted in 1886, one ingredient was a given, sugar.
--:-- Laura Cooper: But a lot of that sugar didn't come from the U.S. The climate in most of the U.S. just isn't ideal for growing sugar cane.
--:-- Annie Minoff: It's a very specific crop in a very specific environment, humidity-wise. Hot, humid, that's what you need for sugar cane? Think of Louisiana.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Yeah, yeah. So, to satisfy America's sweet tooth, soda makers like Coca-Cola historically relied on sugar imports from other countries.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And that reliance could leave them vulnerable. Take what happened in the 1950s. The U.S. imported a lot of sugar from Cuba.
--:-- Laura Cooper: And then the communist revolution there upended that trade.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Russians turned out in thousands to show the world, and America in particular, that Niki loves Fidel.
--:-- Laura Cooper: President Castro had the red carpet treatment all the way to the Red Square.
--:-- Annie Minoff: With Cuba now aligned with the U.S.'s big Cold War enemy, the USSR, the U.S. put restrictions on importing Cuban sugar.
--:-- Laura Cooper: There were embargoes put in place. and the United States, it was very expensive to have sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And so what did that rising price of sugar, you know, you have less supply, price goes up, what did that mean for soda companies like Coca-Cola?
--:-- Laura Cooper: It meant they had to find another way to sweeten their drinks because if you're having a soda, you want to feel that crisp sweetness and they turned to high fructose corn syrup.
--:-- Annie Minoff: High fructose corn syrup. It was developed by scientists in the 50s and 60s. who discovered a way to transform cornstarch into a sweet syrup containing a high amount of a sugar called fructose.
--:-- Laura Cooper: And most importantly for soda makers, it was less expensive than sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: So it is a syrup that is used as a sweetener. Basically, more than 7 million tons are produced by mills that grind up corn to make these sweeteners, and they go into your soda.
--:-- Laura Cooper: So instead of sugar, you'll put in the syrup, and that will be the sweetener.
--:-- Annie Minoff: How different is it from sugar? I mean, taste-wise, really, if you're someone who loves sugar, maybe you can taste the difference.
--:-- Laura Cooper: But the industry would say it's not that different in terms of taste.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And what was great about high fructose corn syrup from a soda maker's perspective? From a soda maker's perspective, we've got a lot of corn in America.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Also, it's a lot cheaper than sugar, right? And it does the same job as sugar, arguably. It sweetens your soda.
--:-- Annie Minoff: So if it's cheaper, it's plentiful. Why not try it when things are really expensive?
--:-- Laura Cooper: Coca-Cola and many other soda makers made the switch to high-fructose corn syrup in the 1980s. And the change stuck.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Coca-Cola, Pepsi, everybody is still using it in soda for the most part on a large scale because we've got a lot of corn.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Today, pretty much all Coke sold in this country is made with high-fructose corn syrup.
--:-- Annie Minoff: But if you're motivated enough, you can still find Coke sweetened with real sugar.
--:-- Laura Cooper: You've probably heard of it. It comes in a glass bottle, and it's not made in the U.S. So that would be the Mexican Coke, and that's made with Mexican cane sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: It's more like boutique-y. Like, it's specialized. It's not like the one you'd pick up in Target while you're shopping.
--:-- Laura Cooper: And it has that glass bottle. It just feels a little classier.
--:-- Annie Minoff: It is in a glass bottle, and a lot of people love it. I'm telling you, Mexican Coke, like, hits different, man.
--:-- Laura Cooper: They have different sugar. It is night and day. It's way more fresh, and it has more flavor. Tastes very, like, rich and caramely, like real sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: I don't care what nobody say. The Coke out of Mexico? Gas.
--:-- Laura Cooper: I've also heard that Coke during Passover tastes different.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Yes that would be the Coke kosher for Passover It has a yellow cap and it is made specifically with sugar
--:-- Laura Cooper: So in the U you can find your Passover Coke and your Mexican Coke
--:-- Annie Minoff: But those are both pretty niche.
--:-- Laura Cooper: High-fructose corn syrup is still the main sweetener in your classic Coke.
--:-- Annie Minoff: But then came Donald Trump's post, promising to make Coke sugary again. But that is easier said than done.
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--:-- Laura Cooper: Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right?
--:-- Annie Minoff: Okay. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.
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--:-- Annie Minoff: Introducing Liquid IV's new energy multiplier sugar-free. Unlike other energy drinks, you know, the ones that make you feel like you're glitching, it's made with natural caffeine and electrolytes.
--:-- Laura Cooper: So you get the boost without the burnout.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Liquid IV's new energy multiplier sugar-free hydrating energy.
--:-- [Sound of a commercial fades out]
--:-- Annie Minoff: Trump's interest in Coke isn't new. The president is a Coca-Cola enthusiast. he drinks a lot of Diet Coke.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Trump famously has a button on the Oval Office's Resolute desk to summon a can of Diet Coke at will.
--:-- Annie Minoff: But Trump's interest in Coke's ingredients? That seems new. And it may take its inspiration from a powerful wing in the Trump coalition, MAHA, or the Make America Healthy Again movement, which has declared war on high-fructose corn syrup.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Stop consuming products that contain high-fructose corn syrup. Any amount less of high fructose corn syrup in the American diet is a good thing for Americans.
--:-- Annie Minoff: In the U.S., they give us the addictive form that makes us fatter, sicker, and more prone to type 2 diabetes.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Read the ingredients. It's got high fructose corn syrup. Ditch you.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Maha's leader and Trump's secretary of health and human services, is one of those high fructose corn syrup critics.
--:-- Laura Cooper: It's interesting. RFK has said that he believes high fructose corn syrup is a recipe for obesity and diabetes.
--:-- Annie Minoff: However, at the same time, he is called sugar poison.
--:-- Laura Cooper: So it's a very interesting situation.
--:-- Annie Minoff: I think that a lot of people broadly, from what I understand, feel that cane sugar is healthier because it's not as processed and it grows out of the ground.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Like you can literally go and cut down sugar cane.
--:-- Annie Minoff: So I think that people just think that sugar is more natural.
--:-- Laura Cooper: But in terms of the health impact, some studies have found very little difference between drinks sweetened with high fructose corn syrup and drinks sweetened with sucrose, a.k.a. cane sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: What really matters from a health perspective is how much sugar or high fructose corn syrup you're consuming.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Most people would be unified on the idea that sugary drinks are not good for you.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Yes, doctors are on board with, this is not a health food. Drinking lots of sugary soda is associated with weight gain and a higher risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease.
--:-- Laura Cooper: A spokesman for Health and Human Services said that Secretary Kennedy welcomes any move that signals a return to natural ingredients.
--:-- Annie Minoff: But he added quote no one is calling soda a health food.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Trump's post about coke tapped into the anti-high fructose corn syrup zeitgeist but it was pretty short on details so I reached out to coca to try to figure out what was going on.
--:-- Annie Minoff: They were like hold tight and they did send out a blanket statement saying that they appreciated President Trump enthusiasm for Coca and to stay tuned to learn more about what was happening with the cane sugar.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Details were not immediately forthcoming.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And so the sugar rumor mill went into overdrive.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Was Coke really going to ditch high fructose corn syrup?
--:-- Annie Minoff: Laura was skeptical. At its core, it's what I was yelling in the newsroom when this happened.
--:-- Laura Cooper: There's just not enough sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Many people may not like high-fructose corn syrup right now. But, Laura says, that doesn't change the underlying economics for soda makers.
--:-- Laura Cooper: There's not enough sugar in the country. The sugar that is here is expensive.
--:-- Annie Minoff: That's a structural issue. That's a government issue. That's a growing issue. That's an environment issue.
--:-- Laura Cooper: And the industry is very used to and reliant on high fructose corn syrup and the corn industry.
--:-- Annie Minoff: So these are very important things to them and very ingrained processes to change.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Could more sugar be imported? Potentially, but there are tariffs in place with a lot of the providers of this sugar.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Sugar tariffs predate Trump. The U.S. has long used quotas and tariffs to try to protect domestic sugar production.
--:-- Laura Cooper: How has the corn industry responded to this pushback against high fructose corn syrup?
--:-- Laura Cooper: The corn industry is very concerned because roughly 3% of U.S. corn production goes towards making corn syrup for food and drinks.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And the Corn Refiners Association estimates that if you were to get rid of this for U.S. food and beverage products, that would slash corn prices by as much as 34 cents a bushel.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Also, you know, my colleague Patrick Thomas spoke to some farmers and they said if Coke decided to use cane sugar, that would hurt their bottom line. Big time. Like, it's a huge concern.
--:-- Annie Minoff: Finally, early last week, Coca-Cola revealed its plans during an earnings call.
--:-- Laura Cooper: We're going to be bringing a Coke sweetened with U.S. cane sugar into the market this fall.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And I think that will be an enduring option for consumers.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Turns out the company was not changing the recipe for Coke. It wasn't going all in on sugar, as some believed that President Trump had suggested in his post.
--:-- Annie Minoff: What it was doing was creating a new product line, a special new version of Coke.
--:-- Laura Cooper: It would be on shelves along with Diet Coke, Coke Zero, and Classic Coke.
--:-- Annie Minoff: When I spoke to the CEO, he said, we are not leaving corn syrup. This is a line. He described it, and I thought this was a good way to describe it, as an and, not or strategy. A yes and.
--:-- Laura Cooper: So this is kind of a more limited approach that Coke is taking.
--:-- Annie Minoff: But is there even enough U.S.-grown sugar to pull that off?
--:-- Laura Cooper: Listen, the Coke CEO, James Quincy, told me they have enough sugar to make their line.
--:-- Annie Minoff: And when I asked him, like, what do we do if we need more sugar? And he said, we grow more sugar, right?
--:-- Laura Cooper: But, you know, this is a line. This is not getting rid of high fructose corn syrup.
--:-- Annie Minoff: So it sounds like for now kind of the dream of Coca-Cola going back to real sugar is limited?
--:-- Laura Cooper: Yes, it's limited. But it's not a limited time thing. It's just a limited line.
--:-- Annie Minoff: So you would have to find Coca-Cola U.S. cane sugar. It's coming out in the fall. We don't have any exact dates.
--:-- Laura Cooper: I think everyone was interested. And I'm even more curious to see how well it sells.
--:-- Annie Minoff: All right, we're at the end of the interview. You're probably kind of thirsty. Which glass are you reaching for?
--:-- Laura Cooper: I don't know. I'm just going to drink them both.
--:-- Annie Minoff: All right, thanks, Laura.
--:-- Laura Cooper: Thank you.
--:-- Annie Minoff: That's all for today, Thursday, July 31st. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Andrea Peterson, Dean Seal, and Patrick Thomas. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.
