Matt Lopez on Violence in America, the Charlotte Train Murder, and Escaping the Badge Through Crypto

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Matt Lopez: The biggest thing was that you couldn't confiscate it and it was sovereign. I was like, well, I don't trust banks. I don't trust governments now. So I started diving into crypto. I put like 40 grand in and within like six weeks, it was 250K.

Paul Alex: What'd your wife say?

Matt Lopez: She said, wow, that's good, honey.

Paul Alex: Hey guys, and welcome back to Level Up Podcast. This is Paul Alex. And today we have a phenomenal interview. We're going to be interviewing Matt Lopez. He's a former police officer, not only based in the Bay Area, but in Oakland and San Francisco. He's been in multiple, multiple critical incidents. So if you're a cop, he's a cop's cop. And you guys are going to love this interview.

Paul Alex: Also, for my crypto enthusiast guys, he's also been able to do some pretty cool projects. He's been able to go ahead and build millions of dollars in revenue through his crypto investments. And he's currently teaching beginners exactly how to do that. I'm a beginner, guys, so I got to learn too, right?

Paul Alex: And then we're going to be talking about some critical instances that are actually happening right now in the U.S. With that being said, Matt, welcome to the show, brother.

Matt Lopez: Oh, thanks for having me, brother.

Paul Alex: Yeah, how was that traffic?

Matt Lopez: It was fun. Three hours. It's good times.

Paul Alex: Yeah, you can keep Miami, dude.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, I feel the same way, guys. You can keep it.

Paul Alex: Yeah, yeah. Everybody's moving in here to Miami. I think it's like the new L.A., basically, or worse, right? With that being said, for the people that don't know you, Matt, who are you exactly?

Matt Lopez: A father, a husband, former cop, worked in Oakland, San Francisco, and now I do crypto work.

Paul Alex: Yeah? Yeah. And let's go ahead and go to your humble beginnings of being the police.

Matt Lopez: Yes.

Paul Alex: Okay. So when did your police career start?

Matt Lopez: I joined Oakland in 2007.

Paul Alex: 2007. So I would say 2007 was like it was a good time to be a cop for sure, right?

Matt Lopez: Definitely.

Paul Alex: Did you guys have cameras back then?

Matt Lopez: No, no cameras.

Paul Alex: No cameras. When did the cameras come into play?

Matt Lopez: Not while I was in Oakland. So I left Oakland in 2010 and we still didn't have them. I went to Hayward, still didn't have them, and I never had them in San Francisco. I never wore a camera.

Paul Alex: Okay, okay. Because you worked undercover?

Matt Lopez: No, but even in San Francisco I still never wore a body camera, even on patrol.

Paul Alex: So it was an option?

Matt Lopez: No, we didn't even have them.

Paul Alex: Wow. Yeah. Okay. Never wore a camera. I call that the golden era of policing, guys, because once the cameras came into play, police work changed. You would get in trouble over saying the silliest things for doing your job.

Matt Lopez: I think there's pros and cons to it. And talking to some of the guys still in it, like guys that were with me, definitely pros and cons. But I think the biggest thing that it does is the cameras take away some of the discretion that cops have. I'm sure you know, community policing and actually understanding who you're dealing with. If you get somebody with something and you have a camera on, you have to take action now because it's on camera. Whereas before we had some discretion and you could build rapport with different kinds of people when you didn't have a camera on you.

Paul Alex: That makes a lot of sense. Using discretion in police work. Police work is not the cleanest type of work. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty to go ahead and get the bigger violent criminals or the bigger fish, as we like to call it.

Matt Lopez: Oh, yeah.

Paul Alex: Oh, yeah. So with that being said, paint the picture of how it was the first couple of years working in Oakland for somebody who wants to be a cop.

Matt Lopez: Okay.

Paul Alex: For somebody who's just like, all right, I love cop stories. Tell me a good one. So paint Oakland. How was it at that time during your life?

Matt Lopez: Well, I would even have to go back to the academy. I had a DT instructor who was amazing. Samuel Falafini, unfortunately, passed away from a stroke. But one of my DT instructors, and if I don't talk about him, I think he kept cops safe for years. You had decades of cops that were probably safe on the streets because of him. And I made the mistake of not listening to what he was telling me to do because another DT instructor told me to do something else. He pretty much kicked me in the nuts, started screaming at me, telling me that I was going to get him killed if I didn't listen to him. And I realized very quickly where I was at.

Matt Lopez: Like if someone tells you to do something, you just do it right then and there. And I apologized afterwards and said I made a mistake, even though the main DT instructor came over and said, "Hey, I told him to do that." And he was like, "I don't give a fuck what you told him to do. I told him to do that." And I apologized and ended up becoming actually really, really good friends with him where we even rode together a few times. He's a legend in that department.

Matt Lopez: Going through there, I learned a lot of vital lessons. Our academy had some great RTOs. They were amazing. And in the FTO program, these are guys that I think you probably could have put up against any cop in history or any other department in the world.

Paul Alex: What made them so good?

Matt Lopez: They had just seen so much. And they had the take that they took on police work. All of them wanted to help. My second phase FTO, he's not active anymore, I don't know if I want to say his name, but he was a legend of the department. He was an RTO, an FTO, taught driving. He was a guy that basically made me fall in love with the department. He took me to every place where an Oakland police officer had been killed and told me the story. Each place he just took me there and told me about it. And I just fell in love, even though I wasn't from Oakland. He made it important because I didn't live there, I wasn't from there, but how do I get tied into the department and to the community to make it a better place? He did an amazing job of making me just love that place. I felt such a tradition, and he had learned it from somebody else. There was generational policing going on.

Matt Lopez: Same thing with my first phase FTO. He was on the probation parole team, our PAC team, which was a killer team. That guy, same thing. He taught me lessons that had been learned from his RTOs and FTOs. The legacy was just hundreds of years of police work that was being handed down through these guys. They had so much knowledge and they all wanted to do a good job. It wasn't about just kicking ass, taking people to jail, whatever it was.

Matt Lopez: I remember one instance from my primary FTO. We did a 459 that we came a couple of days late to. Just a burglary for those who don't know. The kid had gotten his penny jar, his little jar full of money, stolen. I remember my FTO taking the report, doing all this stuff, apologized to everybody. Then he went and he slipped a hundred bucks under the kid's pillow and we left. He just said, "These people have it so hard anyways. I can make the difference." And he just did that. I never forgot that.

Matt Lopez: We used to work overtime quite a bit and not get paid for the first hour because he said, "We give the first hour. The department treats us good, we're going to treat them good." This is unfortunately a guy that eventually got pushed out by the department. But these guys loved it. They were just amazing.

Paul Alex: So they basically built that culture, that vision for you. They built the foundation of why you actually liked policing.

Matt Lopez: Oh, yeah. No, I loved it. My first year, I would have done it for free. I would have done the job for free.

Paul Alex: I always say the same thing. The day that I got released from field training, I remember sitting in the Crown Vic, driving down 84th and International for everybody, all my bearings, rep Oakland. And just saying how this is a dream. Like, I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this. It was phenomenal. Greatest job in the world.

Matt Lopez: Greatest job in the world.

Paul Alex: There used to be a saying by an OG cop. He just retired, but he used to say, "Hey, Paul, not bad for having a high school degree." You probably know who that is. Okay, cool. So what happened? Why did you leave Oakland to go to San Francisco?

Matt Lopez: Well, they had the great financial crash. Vallejo went bankrupt.

Paul Alex: What year was this?

Matt Lopez: This was 2010, I think. Yeah, 2010.

Paul Alex: Yeah.

Matt Lopez: The great financial crash happened in 2008, and then cities started having problems. They were going to lay off a bunch of cops. They did half of my class. I was thankful enough that my first year off probation, I received an exceeds expectations rating. So I still would have made it right at the border. I think I graduated my class like 13th, and there was only like 19 of us that made through FTO anyways out of like 51 that started. But I got exceeds expectations, so it bumped me to the top of my class for seniority. Then half my class was laid off. Most of my squad mates were all laid off. And the POA at the time said they're going to do more layoffs. So I said, "Okay, we have to go." My wife was pregnant with our first kid. We had just bought a house. So I was like, "I gotta find somewhere else to work just in case," because I saw all these other guys struggling that had been laid off.

Paul Alex: What were most cops doing? Where were they getting laid off? Were they going to other departments? Were they transitioning to other jobs?

Matt Lopez: Some, if you were lucky enough, yeah. A lot of them were just picking up any kind of side gig they wanted or could. I think some of them were guarding the weed places because the specialties were legal. So a lot of them picked up anything they could get to basically pay the bills during that time.

Paul Alex: Wow. And then you end up transitioning to San Francisco with all this experience from Oakland. I feel like once you transition from being a cop somewhere else, you got to learn different habits, you got to earn the rep again. So how was that transition going from Oakland PD to San Francisco PD at that time?

Matt Lopez: Well, I did do a quick 10 months in Hayward, which was pretty rough. Oakland felt very large because we only had two stations, Eastmont and PAB. Lineups were massive. Then I went to Hayward and it was like 110 cops, very small, tiny department, good old boys club. There were guys with 10 years on that had never been in a specialized unit, and I had already been in one. It was just like, man, I don't want to wait that long. It was way different. So I said, "I got to get out of here."

Matt Lopez: That's when I ended up going. A good friend had went to SF, said this place is great. He worked in LA as well, LA, Oakland, and then SF. So I was like, "Cool, I'm out." Took the chance. Went over to San Francisco. They put us through a lateral academy, which I thought was kind of funny because we didn't have to do one in Hayward. So I was like, "OK, I'll do one." It was a bunch of us Oakland guys. I think they were getting a feel for us because they had never had laterals at that time.

Paul Alex: I'll say the policing in San Francisco is great, but the training is nowhere near the same, like night and day difference.

Matt Lopez: Well, I don't know. Did you march in your academy?

Paul Alex: We marched. It really depends on who your RTO is. For the listeners and viewers, if you guys don't know our police jargon, RTO means Recruiting Training Officer, FTO is Field Training Officer. These are the acronyms we use for people that basically trained the police at the police academy.

Matt Lopez: One thing I did see, because you have to go through POST requirements in California, all those certifications. That's why when people talk shit and say, "Oh, police don't need no training for that bullshit," it's the most intense training that you could do within six months. If you fail one test once a week, you're screwed.

Paul Alex: Right.

Matt Lopez: But I know for Oakland, their DTAC, their defensive tactics, and also their shooting, their firearms training, is like an additional 100 hours compared to most academies. That's what I remember. Our range quals were harder than some SWAT quals for other departments.

Paul Alex: I knew that. And you know what? I can confirm that. The reason why is because I went to work under Alameda County Sheriff's. When I did, I remember that they wanted me to become a field training officer for detectives at the time. Oakland didn't want to do it because I wasn't on the street for that long. So they ended up shipping me out all the way to San Diego to get field training certified. When I did that, I was supposed to teach the class something from my agency. So I taught them DTAC, defensive tactics. And they're like, "That's a SWAT move." I was like, "What do you mean that's a SWAT move?" They're like, "Yeah, that's only our SWAT guys use that." And I was just like, "Really? Dude, we've been using this all day."

Matt Lopez: That is one of the things. In Oakland, I feel like no matter where we were at, you could jump on any call in a stack with any team. And we all had the same tactics. From the patrolman all the way up to the SWAT guy, it didn't matter what it was. If an incident was going on, you could show up and you knew what your job was. San Francisco was totally fractured. We had our patrol units. You had the motor guys. You had our spec team, which is like snipers, they're sometimes the first ones on there. And then you had your tack team, which is like they have their own unit. They don't handle, sometimes they go out and handle calls, but they're like a full-time team. And everyone had different roles. It was a mess. Controlled chaos.

Paul Alex: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Lopez: Nobody knew what everybody else was doing. No one was trained exactly the same. So I feel like that was a problem. It could have been because they had 2,200 cops. But the good news is I think a lot of Oakland guys have got into the training department since I left, especially. It makes sense. They're trying to square it away. I know two guys that are doing an amazing job at their academy. Because the reality is, it's not about who knows what. It's about keeping people safe. Keep your cops safe and also keeping citizens safe. Because the better trained your cops are, you're less likely to overreact in a situation. Less shootings, less problems. You just know how to handle things.

Paul Alex: Correct. That's the thing. I always remember Captain Joyner when he taught in our academy. He was only a sergeant, but he had been in five shootings already. He's the one who got shot at the gas station multiple times in that one incident after he retired. But I remember him saying, "I could have shot 100 people, but I'm a God-fearing man." I remember that distinctly in my head. Then I almost had a shooting where I didn't shoot, where I could have shot. And I felt really shitty about it because from my academy training, I should have shot this guy.

Matt Lopez: Right.

Paul Alex: On paper, I was 100% right, but I didn't, and I made a decision. My sergeant who ended up getting killed, Dan Sakai, he talked to me after the incident. I asked him, "Sarge, can I talk to you about this?" And I told him what had happened. And he said, "Don't ever feel bad about not doing something because you had a reason. Because that's why we trained you." So yes, I think the better trained you are, the more apt you are to keep everybody safe, yourself and the people that you're protecting.

Matt Lopez: No, absolutely, man.

Paul Alex: So San Francisco, how long were you in San Francisco for?

Matt Lopez: I did seven in San Francisco.

Paul Alex: So seven years in San Francisco. What was your path like? Because there's different paths. For the listeners and viewers, in law enforcement, people have different reasons to become a cop. Whether it's financials, whether it's purpose, whether it's like you just want to get into shit. I was probably one of those. I'm mad too. But that's just what it is. So when we ask about path, I know a lot of cops that say, you know, a B cop, which is nothing wrong with that, for the majority of their career. Then they end up becoming a field training officer and then finally a sergeant. They retire out. That's it. But for a lot of guys like yourself, you go into specialized unit, you do all the crazy shit. So what path did you take?

Matt Lopez: Well, for me, when I got in it, like anything else, I had a degree. So I thought I was smart and I was like, "I want to move up the ranks" when I first got in. Even in Oakland, this is what changed my whole perspective. One of our sergeants, an OG in Oakland, came to the academy and literally got up there and said, "If you're not here to take people to jail, you're for the wrong fucking reason." Right then and there, that switched my whole mindset of what I thought I should be doing. I just said, "I want to do 10 years before I ever promote." I wanted to say that like I knew the best cops. I had some very good sergeants. I know you did as well. Some of them had done everything. Some of them didn't do everything, but they knew who to ask when they didn't know the answer. So I was like, "Man, I just want 10 years as an officer, touch as many areas of police work as possible so that when I promote, when these people look to me for guidance, I know I can either give it to them. And if I can't, if I don't know the answer, I know somebody close to me who does."

Matt Lopez: When I got into San Francisco, I was in a shooting within five weeks. I was just coming off a shooting like a year before. Five weeks in, I'm in FTO and I get in another shooting. They took really good care of me. Our chief was an absolute stud. Chief Greg Suhr was the man at the time. Came in, took phenomenal care of me. Sent me to Northern Station. Northern Station, legacy station. Cops have been copping there third generation. Great-great-grandfathers had worked there in the 1906 earthquake. Just a legacy station. Did a really good job there.

Matt Lopez: I was able to start doing like street team, which we didn't really have in Oakland. Each station in San Francisco has its undercover teams. We have our plainclothes teams that work out of the station that handle everything within the neighborhoods. I wanted to work some plainclothes, so I wasn't on our plainclothes team there, but I got to be plainclothes at nighttime because the plainclothes guys work swings usually. At nighttime, they'll let my partner and I go be plainclothes. So I did that for a long time.

Matt Lopez: Then our Southern plainclothes team had gotten in some trouble a couple years past before my time there, and they wanted to bring it back. Southern was a major station. It's basically the Hall of Justice, where all the dirty Harry movies and everything are out of. They said, "It's important for us to have this plainclothes team back. We want to start it again, and we want you to be a part of it." So it was actually me and a couple other Oakland guys and then some SF guys, and we brought that team back. So I started there.

Matt Lopez: Since San Francisco is kind of an open air drug market, anybody that can't sell dope in their own cities because it's too violent, Oakland streets are super violent. If you couldn't cut on the corners, you would just go sell them in the Tenderloin. You would just go sell in San Francisco because it was open, not as violent. We were having problems with people coming from all of our other cities and causing chaos in the city. Chief Suhr said, "We need a unit to go handle these guys."

Paul Alex: And that was you guys.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. He said, "You're a shit storm. So anywhere these guys live outside of this city, we want you guys to go get them." So it was me, a couple other Oakland guys, and then some OGs in San Francisco who were probably some of the best undercover cops we've ever had that I got to work with. I put them on par with Oakland cops as far as CIs go, the way they could manage the CIs. Tactics and police work may be a little different. I always say the Oakland guys are the best. But yeah, that was my path in San Francisco.

Paul Alex: I love that. Walk us through a critical incident that actually changed your life and the way you see the world while you were in law enforcement. You could talk about either your time in San Francisco or in Oakland. What would be one critical incident? I know there were many. But we've got to pick one because we've got to keep the show under two hours.

Matt Lopez: Well, each one I went through that I would consider major critical incidences, there is more than one. I would list the ones that probably changed me. It was my sergeant getting killed. We had the four officers killed March 21st, 2009. That changed me because I saw men who I believed were better than me at police work die. That was a very hard realization. Like, okay, I think I'm a badass. We all do at a certain point. You have to have some air of confidence.

Paul Alex: I feel like you're telling the truth on that. Every cop's cop, or at least if you're a proactive cop, there's days that you feel invincible. You're like, "I can't get touched. I'm going to do this." Because you did some crazy shit probably. That's great. That's your job is to go out there and get the bad guys. I want to make sure everybody around stays safe. There are bad people out there. And I know you've seen it. That's the other problem with police work in general. Most people have not seen evil. And I'm sure we'll get into it later. But there is real evil out there.

Matt Lopez: Absolutely.

Paul Alex: Most people have not seen it. We've seen it. More times than I care to count. And I don't want normal people to see it. But that's the hard part. They judge us off of what we've done, even though they've never seen what violence looks like. It's not pretty. And we have to do it sometimes to keep people safe.

Matt Lopez: Correct. So March 21st definitely changed me because I realized, one, I always knew I wasn't invincible because I've always been hurt before. But watching those guys who were better than me go, I was like, man, that was just really tough to go through.

Paul Alex: If you're comfortable, I mean, this is an open book and we're very, very open on this podcast. Would you want to run down that scenario? Exactly what happened?

Matt Lopez: Yeah. It was basically a car stop with a guy who was wanted. I don't remember what he was wanted for. I believe it was a 261. Yes, sexual assault or rape of a minor, if I believe. His name was Lavelle Mixon. He was stopped by two of our OG motor cops, John Hagee and Sergeant Mark Dunnegan. Dunnegan was amazing. Dunnegan had been homicide, street teams, taught in the academy. He was just funny as all hell. They went to stop him and he had a fake license. I don't remember all the details around the license, whether he'd actually got it from DMV or it was just a total fake, but it wasn't coming back. They went up to get him, went to pull him out of the driver's seat, and he basically popped out the window, shot both of them in the head, stood over them, and executed them. Right.

Matt Lopez: He went up to run. What happened is obviously we have a full team come out, our SWAT team. We got a lot of heat in the after action report, and I think that's kind of bullshit in some ways. I mean, it's always good to do after action, but a lot of people didn't know how Oakland worked. Those were our best of the best. They said it was an ad hoc team that went to go get him. But basically what happened was we had had information. Captain Joyner, I believe, who had more CIs than anybody. That guy knew like half the city.

Paul Alex: Everybody.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. He knew where he was. He said he's there. And they made some mistakes as well. Instead of just, maybe they should have just waited him out, throw gas, do some other things. They also weren't 100% sure he was in there, so they wanted to do a hand check. We used to call it a hand check where you would just go in versus actually doing it. Unfortunately, when our team went to go in, he was laying in the back room with an SKS.

Paul Alex: As you know, AJ threw or keyed the door and Romans went to throw the flashbangs and the smoke in.

Matt Lopez: And then my SKS rifle.

Paul Alex: Yeah, rifle. What round?

Matt Lopez: 7.62.

Paul Alex: Yeah, so we're talking about military grade guys in the city of Oakland. It's pretty normal.

Matt Lopez: Yep. And he had gotten that from a burglary, if I'm not mistaken, out in Modesto or something. The guy had not reported it. So when they went to open the door, I believe Romans got shot at that point in time. Then another sergeant of ours, the one who basically changed my mindset in the academy, he took a round through the shoulder, a round off of his helmet, still made entry. When they went in the back, they were in the back room, couldn't see anything from what I had heard. He basically, Sakai had taken a shot underneath his helmet at that point in time. They ended up still getting him in the back room. The other sergeant had put him down, and they got him out.

Matt Lopez: So it was a rough incident for multiple different ways. I do remember, though, right after it, we started repping what had happened wrong in the scenario. Right away, we went to the range. People started doing the car stops and figuring out how we need to approach cars from there on. So the training was amazing. But yeah, it changed me because Dan Sakai was my superhero.

Paul Alex: Of course.

Matt Lopez: That guy was so tactical, so smart. He's who I wanted to be in police work. This guy has done SWAT. He's done K-9. He's done dope. He's done all this stuff. He's now promoted to a sergeant. He's a guy who put his time in, knew the answers, and could get you the answers if he didn't know it. And he was so well-liked. That definitely changed my perspective of not what I thought about myself. Because I'll be honest, I don't know if I really cared. I didn't want to die. But if I did, I almost felt like it was part of it. I think that's a big decision that my wife and I made. When we started having kids, everybody told me, "You got to slow down."

Matt Lopez: Like you got to stop. And her and I talked about it and we had a real conversation. And I said, I policed this way for my entire career so far. I don't really want to change it because I think it's what keeps me on edge, like keeps me safe.

Paul Alex: Keeps you going.

Matt Lopez: Yes. And I said, I also, we're starting a family. And if you ever need help, if our kids ever need help, I don't want a cop standing outside thinking about his family. I want a cop like me going in, just zero regard for himself, just to make sure you're safe. And I was like, so I have to do it like this. And she said, then do your job the way you have to do it. And that's the way I always went. So I didn't change. The minute I started having family, kids, and it just, yeah, I was okay if that happened to me. I thought tackling anything head on from our training, I'd be okay. An ambush, obviously, I think they would get me. But everything else, I was like, man, I just have to stay sharp.

Paul Alex: Yeah. You're just squared away. You're ready. You're ready to engage. You take it serious. And that's good, man. That's what's needed, especially being in that city and any city. We respect all cops from no matter if you patrol small towns. I think it's almost worse than small towns.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. Because you're not as ready. Like you just don't expect it.

Paul Alex: Complete seat kills, dude.

Matt Lopez: Oh, well, that's why I actually got these tattoos. I wasn't a big tattoo guy, but it says, "If you wish for peace, prepare for war." And I felt like in San Francisco, I wasn't on edge as much as I was in Oakland. And so I just always reminded myself, I just have to be ready because I don't want to be a statistic 15, 20 years in my police career where I got lazy.

Paul Alex: No, absolutely, man. And I used to remember, I had a couple of friends that would leave Oakland to go to other departments because they're like, "Oh, man, they're giving me the boot. They're giving me a hard time here. They don't allow me to police." But then they end up coming back after a year because they're like, "I'm bored."

Matt Lopez: Oh, yeah.

Paul Alex: There's nothing like it. Once you work in that city, man, it definitely changes you to an adrenaline junkie.

Matt Lopez: Oh, for sure.

Paul Alex: But all right, man. So let's give advice to some of the beginners here because I get quite a few DMs throughout the week and daily about people joining law enforcement still in 2025. So what would be three pieces of good advice that you would tell somebody before they go ahead and try to tackle applying for the police? What would you say from your perspective? Like, "Hey, dude, if you're not prepared in this way, if you're not ready for this..."

Matt Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. I think before you're applying, you better be in shape. That's number one. If you're not in shape, it's going to be so much more difficult for you. And I'm sure you had guys in your academy that were in great shape and so did we. And the physical part was so tough for them where the physical part was not as tough for me. That was the easiest part of the academy. I liked it. It was like getting a workout in. So being physically in shape is going to help you, and even in the long run it's going to help you mitigate the stresses of the job anyway. Being in shape, you're going to handle stress better, you're going to do all kinds of things. So be in shape physically. Two, I think you need to—I hate to say this because it is, but you got to be humble, but at the same time you got to be confident. And I always have problems walking that line because, well, I'm sure you as well, you're successful, right? So I know I can do anything. And sometimes that confidence translates the wrong way.

Paul Alex: Yes. Like people can think you're cocky, and it was like, "Well, I'm not cocky. I can do it. I know I can do this." Well, here's my perspective on that, right? Because I don't know if Oakland was the way it was, but when I was in Oakland, the dynamic was very toxic. And it was like a good toxic. It's like for all my signal guys, I like the toxic guys out there, right? You know what I'm saying? You're just like, you know they're bad for you, but you still go back. So same thing in my department during the time I was in the police. It was just like you had certain people that you just did not like because of their demeanor, the way they spoke, the way they acted, or the way they did their job. But at the end of the day, you would still have their back. That's just how our department rules. And I'm pretty sure majority of departments are like that. Most cops are like that. You'll have each other's back no matter what. The reason why I say that is because I remember a sergeant and a lieutenant from ACSO when I was working under them on the task force. They said, "Paul, you're a cocky motherfucker, but you back it up." And that's the only reason why we stand you.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, mine was similar because I did catch so much flack early on. And it wasn't for—I think a lot of it was I was just really excited. And I didn't really believe—I knew I didn't know that much. I was smart enough to have a realization: I don't know all this stuff. But one of the units I was in, the guy's got like a hundred guns that year. And I was just like, "Oh my God, this squad gets so many guns." And it happened to be like I had gotten two guns on a car stop and I'd found one of them in the air filter compartment in FTO. And so they thought that I thought that I was on this guy. And I even got an award that the sergeant printed out for me and gave in front of this massive lining out of Eastmont. And I was like, "No, it's not me doing it." But I was just so happy to be doing police. But a lot of them did like me. And I think it wasn't until I'd actually had been in my shooting and saved that CHP officer that switched for a lot of people. I wasn't called cocky anymore. People probably gave me that I was cocky before then, but after then it was just more like—

Paul Alex: No, they knew you were the real deal.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. Like I would do anything for any cop there. I literally would run into gunfire to help you. And I think that's normal, dude. I think it's normal, especially with rookie cops. There's going to be a very small percentage of every single academy class where you're going to have a very small group of cops that want to be super proactive. They're going to go out there and do great police work. And then some of the more veteran officers are going to be like, "Oh, who's this guy? He hasn't been here long enough."

Paul Alex: Yes, absolutely. But at the end of the day, I also like to nurture my mentees. And I like to push and lift people up, dude. That's what I learned about myself. Especially in police work, man, I've always mentored people. And I never thought about it like that back then. But just like you said, your sergeants, the people that give you advice, who you look up to—that's huge. And it goes back to being in business now, right? It translates right into business, but in life as well. So it's a lot of good values that you learn throughout police work. And I feel like if it wasn't for police work, I wouldn't be the man that I am today. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing for you, brother.

Matt Lopez: Maybe. I think that this stuff would have been pulled out of you regardless. I think, obviously I know how you feel about what your police career did for you. But I am also a believer that a lot of these things are in us as people. And it takes a situation to pull them out of you.

Paul Alex: You're right.

Matt Lopez: And so it doesn't matter what it is. You just need to find the right thing. And it may have been police work for you. I had done a decent amount of stuff before. I swam through college. I was a D1 swimmer, been through some rough stuff. My brother passed away. And so there were situations I don't think I had to go through. But I've always risen to the occasion. So whatever it is, the situation arises, it's going to pull something out of me to perform.

Paul Alex: You're going to make it happen.

Matt Lopez: Going to make it happen. And I know that's you. You've made all this stuff happen. And it wasn't always like that, man. It wasn't always like that. I think what ended up pushing me was, to be honest, in corporate America, I did do pretty well. But then what I will tell you is I wasn't fulfilled.

Paul Alex: Yes.

Matt Lopez: So police work, I was fulfilled. All the way to the end.

Paul Alex: Yeah. But let's shift perspectives now. Let's shift a little to what's going on now in the world. This morning I did a post on my Facebook profile about a critical incident that happened just less than a week ago, dude, on a train in Charlotte with a murderer. A straight up murderer that just stabbed an innocent Ukrainian woman on the train while she's sitting there going to work or whatnot. But what made me really angry about this—and I'm such a big, I guess you could say I like to stand up for people. I like to be a protector for sure. I am the dude that would be the first to two-one at the door. "Hey, dude, we're going to go handle business now. We're going to go ahead and take care of this. Let's go." So it really pisses me off because there's a lot of video out there, man, that shows that no one did anything during that incident. So a couple key details: people are blaming the cops for not patrolling the train. They're obviously making it political now. They're saying that the judges that let this man off—because he did go to jail over 15 times—they're trying to blame that he has some mental issues and they're blaming it on that. So what's your take on this incident?

Matt Lopez: Yeah, that's a tough one. Obviously, just like you said, it's horrible what happened. It's not horrible, it's disgusting. That happens in current day America where you think that you should be able to live free, be able to pursue happiness and be safe. And I think one of my FTOs said it best. When we first started arresting people and the case wouldn't go, he said to me to keep me focused and keep me energetic: "We cannot control what happens after we take them in. We do our job. Everything else you have to let go of." And that got tougher and tougher as I'm sure you were aware. I had guys that pulled guns on me and they didn't get charged. I was in a shooting where the guy shot at me. I got the gun. I couldn't tell if it was the driver or the passenger who was shot, so I just said I don't know who it was. But there were gunshots, gunshot residue on everything. When we tested them, the case went nowhere. He got like three months probation for a hit and run with great bodily injury on a taxi driver.

Paul Alex: Yep.

Matt Lopez: So those are sometimes tough to swallow. But I think as police officers—and that's why they want to blame the police—but I don't think they understand. Cops just want to do good work. We want to take people to jail that are bad. We want to keep people safe. Sometimes people do get jaded in police work because they have been doing it for so long and nothing happens, or you get burned by administrations or whatever it is. That's tough. But I think that we need to hold the people accountable who don't keep these people in jail. That's my take. If we take someone to jail, we have done our job. Just like if a cop lets someone go for a DUI or something else and they go on and crash and kill somebody, they will absolutely hold that cop liable. When you had the stop and you let this person continue to drive and they wrecked and killed another family, you're going. You're done. They will hold you responsible for that. Or it's like going to a domestic violence situation and you don't take the person to jail and it's a mandatory arrest. Cops have to arrest somebody when it's domestic violence. Even if you guys just push each other on the shoulder.

Paul Alex: Just an accusation.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. Just an accusation. It's happened before and case law was created where a cop was just like, "Oh, okay, they take the word for it. Go take a walk." And then somebody comes back and ends up killing the other spouse. So same thing in this situation, man. It's sickening that they allow criminals just like that out of jail multiple times. When is enough enough, dude?

Paul Alex: I think we've already had enough. It's enough already. I think it's going to blow up. And it's going to shift a couple of policies out there. I would hope so because there needs to be some accountability. And I'm all for—we need defense attorneys. We need public defenders. And it needs to be done properly. If someone has the right to defend yourself in a court case, you shouldn't be found guilty just because. But if you are guilty of something and you do do something, somebody needs to be accountable for that sentence that's handed down to you. So if a judge is just letting people go and then something else happens, I would always feel a certain way. For instance, I would take people to jail and my thought process was, "I know this is not going to get charged." But I would just ask certain questions. If a guy was a booster and he would just break into cars all the time, I'd say, "How many cars do you break into a day?" Just chopping it up with them. And be like, "Okay, this guy breaks into 13 cars a night. That means tomorrow, 13 people are going to wake up feeling real shitty because their car window's broken. Maybe they had a job appointment, maybe they had whatever." You don't know how many people this one person can affect. It's a ripple effect.

Matt Lopez: Absolutely.

Paul Alex: So I take them to jail. And I said, "At least tonight, this person cannot hurt anybody else. They cannot cause any other chaos. So I'm going to take them." Everybody like, "Hey, that shit's pointless. It's not going anywhere. They're not going to charge him for the dope. Whatever it was."

Matt Lopez: That's so funny, man. I used to get that as a rookie all the time. They're like, "Dude, why are you arresting this guy? That's not enough dope to keep him in jail for a long time." And I'm like, "Dude, I don't care. I'm here doing my job. That's it."

Paul Alex: That's it. I get paid by the hour. I'm here to provide customer service my way. But let's talk about the media, dude. I think it's complete bullshit that the media is not covering this incident the way they're supposed to be. Because let's say it was reversed, bro. And we're Latinos, okay? I'm proving a Mexican. We're from freaking California. One of the most diverse states in the United States. So before I start hearing comments or anything, "Oh, man, you guys are some racist." Nah, dude. My wife's black. That's how diverse we are.

Matt Lopez: That's what racists would say exactly.

Paul Alex: But with that being said, if it was reversed, if it was a white guy killing a black woman, oh dude, all the cities would be on fire. Oakland would be on fire right now. We get hit up by our homies being like, "Yo bro, what's up? Can we go do what you guys are doing?"

Matt Lopez: Absolutely. I experienced it first hand in one of the shootings I was in. They had riots and protests after it because I got in a shooting with a person and they didn't know I was Hispanic. Literally a day before, I was talking to all the members of the church or businesses the day before. Then the next day, they're on the news talking shit about me. So I've seen it happen and you're absolutely right. If this was reversed, it would happen. And I think there's a systematic problem. There's just an issue. It's changed my viewpoint a little bit since I got out of policing. But you have to look at the communities. I'm sure it used to bug you. It used to bug the hell out of me when I was in Oakland and I would see Hispanics—because that's obviously who I identify with. I'm first generation. I know how hard my grandparents never spoke English. My father didn't speak English until the second grade. I know how hard they worked and what they did to provide me with the life I have. And then when I would see these guys start hanging out in the projects, the Hispanics especially, and acting a certain way, I'd think, "What is wrong with you?" I ask, "What does your dad do?" "Oh, he's a landscaper." "What's your mom do?" "She cleans houses." "Why are you out here acting this way? Do you not understand the opportunity?"

Paul Alex: Yes.

Matt Lopez: And I don't know if it's the system that's broken that they put these people in these concrete jungles and they just tell them to live a certain way and they don't see outside their little block.

Paul Alex: It's environment-based, dude. 110%. I still got friends that are freaking my age, 37, and they still talk like they're freaking 15, bro.

Matt Lopez: Yes.

Paul Alex: Obviously I don't hang around with them or talk to them, but I still know that they do. And that's just the way it is in certain neighborhoods. They just never get out of that bubble.

Matt Lopez: Yes, right. And I think it is systematic. I think it is because you go to these houses, you go to these neighborhoods and you're like, "Why do you do this?" And then you really get to know the person and that's all they know. And I think the other thing is there's a massive disconnect. And I think this is part of bigger change, whether you're on the left or the right, whatever it is. I have encountered a lot of people. Obviously I worked in San Francisco and I used to protect a lot of people on the left, so I get to talk to some of these people. Especially when I transitioned out of police work, I'll never forget it. I worked with a very powerful family that was building all the homeless encampments in San Francisco. And I said, "I don't think these people actually want homes." They got millions of dollars from the city of San Francisco to build these things. And I said to them, "If you would like to talk to some of the homeless, I know a really good officer who would love to take you guys around to these encampments to actually talk to the homeless people to see if you can help them with what they actually need." And they're like, "Oh, we never thought about that." And I think that there's a disconnect with some of the elites who think that they just know better than everybody else.

Paul Alex: Right.

Matt Lopez: So they don't think, "Oh, maybe we should see it." So I think that there's a disconnect there. And I don't know. I hope there's a change.

Paul Alex: It is funny how the media will portray one thing and not the other. And that's unfair. I don't know. I always say to my parents because they love watching the news, man, I'm like, "Don't watch that shit. That shit's all negativity. That feeds into the agenda. Fear. Go fear. Don't do anything. Stay normal. Conform." Fuck that, dude. We're here to level up. Ultimately, you shouldn't really care. Martin Luther King always had some of the best speeches about people's character. That's the most important thing. And I learned that in Oakland. I didn't care if you were purple. If you were in blue, you were my brother, you were my sister. That was it to me. And I really think we've gotten away from that. And I don't know how any of that matters, what you are, because we're here in America. I don't care where you came from, where you've been, whatever it is. If you're here and you want to have a better life, that's what you should be striving towards. But these people want to play these—I don't know why the race thing is so important right now for people because it doesn't really matter. It all ties back into politics.

Matt Lopez: For sure.

Paul Alex: You know who the president is right now and what it's perceived. And it's all part of this bigger agenda, man. But with that being said, the guy's getting federally charged. Thank God.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. They're pulling the case.

Paul Alex: Trump just made an announcement on that the other night. So kudos to him. But yeah, dude, things need to change. And I think we need to go back to the old school of letting police police, man. Because I'll be honest with you, that was one of the main reasons why I ended up leaving law enforcement because I was in California. And it was Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones, guys, meaning that they will screw you if you do actual real police work. Imagine if you're a cop right now, not only in California but in different other states, where you pull somebody over and they say some false allegations. Now you're put on probation. Now you can't go ahead and actually do your job. You're sat at a desk and now you're awaiting your fate because some asshole wanted to make a complaint. At the end of the day, is that right? Absolutely not. What is your take on that?

Matt Lopez: It's the complete opposite of what due process actually should be. You're guilty from the beginning in police work. 100%. You're guilty of it. And then you have to prove your innocence. It's not like a search warrant where you've written all this probable cause and now you have to prove it on the other side. No, literally you are guilty just by them saying something and you have to fight to get it back. And then the next time, why would you take that risk? Why would you take that chance when all of a sudden your entire life is on the line? And then if you ever get sued, you have to list all of your assets whenever they want to sue you. So it's like you realize all of a sudden what you're putting at risk when you're trying to just help people, especially people that hate us. I don't know how many people—pennies on the dollar. We used to run in and go do things for people that couldn't stand us. But we did it day in and day out. So yeah, it's rough. It's the way it goes, man.

Paul Alex: But with that being said, let's transition to some more positivity here at the level of guys. So what was the last year you actually served?

Matt Lopez: 2017.

Paul Alex: Okay, so in 2017, you end up transitioning out. And then what was life after policing?

Matt Lopez: Oh, man. First year was pretty rough just because I got hurt multiple times.

Paul Alex: Paint the scenario, dude. How many kids?

Matt Lopez: Four kids.

Paul Alex: What was your guys' mindset?

Matt Lopez: We had three kids at the time. We have four now. But at that time, I was ultimately going to try to build spec homes with my dad. That's what we were going to do. Build spec homes because he's a general contractor, does amazing work. Always wanted to do it. My little brother who passed away was going to do it with him. So he was kind of caught in limbo, just still doing insurance jobs. And he does a really good job with them. But I figured, okay, I did tons of things after being a cop. I'd been hurt multiple times, blew my neck, blew my back, was on a lot of painkillers, nerve blockers, muscle relaxers. The department would not fix me. They just fought me tooth and nail. And I was in so much pain and I was just like, "I'm done. I can do something else."

Paul Alex: So you didn't even medically retire.

Matt Lopez: No, I didn't take a retirement. I didn't get a damn thing. I just walked. And I would have won it in the long run. I had an attorney and we would have won it in the long run. I just know that they would have owned me and I still want to be active. I had three daughters at the time. So it was like, I still wanted to be a dad for them. I didn't want to be a shell because I had seen cops that had gone through the workers' comp system. It was just brutal how they had to just lay on the couch, not leave their house. It wasn't the life for me. I was like, "I still want to be active." So the first year I walked away, I spent a lot of time just getting my mind right and my body right because I couldn't believe what had happened to me. I nominated Rookie of the Year in Oakland, Medal of Valor from Oakland, Life Saving Award from CHP, Gold Medal of Valor from San Francisco, Medal of Honor from our POA, and I just got fucking right out with the trash.

Paul Alex: Doesn't that suck?

Matt Lopez: Yeah, it does. You're like, "Was that just a number, bro?" Well, you know what's funny is my primary FTO, it happened to him. Solid cop. And a complaint had come around and he almost went crazy and he medicaled out on a psych. And then I met up with him one more time and he told me the same thing. We went out to breakfast. He's like, "Do not trust these fuckers, the departments. Do not trust them." And I was like, "Oh dude, he's lost it." I was like, "That ain't going to happen to me." And then sure enough, it happened to me. And I was like, "Oh my God, I cannot believe." So it took me a while to come to terms with that. How I went into the police department and how I got out of it, the way it aged me over 10 years and what it had done to my body. And I was like, "Man, I cannot believe this." So it took me a good while to recover from that. Get right. Get physically strong. I had a couple back surgeries, two back surgeries to fix me. But yeah, the first year was rough, just trying to find myself.

Paul Alex: So you're going through this transition. Then what?

Matt Lopez: Well, basically, I didn't trust the government at that point in time because of how I got treated. And I mean, it was nuts what they actually put me through. They would subpoena all of my records for bank accounts, all kinds of things. The city basically said I was lying about my injury because they had pictures of me picking up my girls. And I never got in trouble because I just told the truth. I was like, "I got three daughters. Yes, I picked them up. Yes, I still swim because I have to move. I've been through three shootings. You can't just keep me locked in my house. I'm going to go crazy." No way. So I didn't trust politics or the city or governments after that point. And we had sold our house in Northern California and had done pretty well. And I had a buddy who kept talking to me about Bitcoin. And he was like, "Hey, dude, the biggest thing was that you couldn't confiscate it, and it was sovereign." So I was like, "Well, I don't trust banks. I don't trust governments now." So I started diving into cryptocurrency.

Paul Alex: Such a rebel.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, basically, that's what it was.

Paul Alex: So you have a buddy who you trusted. He tells you, "Hey, dude, Bitcoin, crypto is the move." And did you just jump right in? How'd that work out?

Matt Lopez: I didn't go all in. I took a portion of it because everybody told me I was crazy. I originally called this guy crazy when he was doing it because he put a large amount in right off the bat. And it took me like a year because I first saw it when I was a cop, but I couldn't touch it because of all of our cash seizures. I was like, "Man, this would be too weird for me buying this dark web type thing when I first saw it." But when I wasn't a cop, I dove into it and I put like $40,000 in, and within like six weeks it was $250,000.

Paul Alex: What did your wife say?

Matt Lopez: She said, "Wow, that's good, honey." Pretty much. She's like, "Wow, I know you can do it."

Paul Alex: "Yeah, wow, it's because you're an overachiever, bro."

Matt Lopez: She's like, "No, I'll buy it." It was just like, she was just as long as the card works when she swipes.

Paul Alex: That's all.

Matt Lopez: I don't think she has any passwords to any accounts, no nothing. It's just like she's like that meme of just like it swipes and it works. Like, "Okay, it's good. Then we're good." Yeah. As long as I can make it happen. And that's always been my thing. She's never had to work other than being a mother, which is the hardest job in the world. So the minute we got together, she had a job and then I said, "You don't have to work." And then she was like, "Okay." And started having kids. And she's never worked other than being a mom, which is super, super tough. But yeah, that's it. So I've always just said, "I'm going to make it happen. We need money. I'm going to make it happen."

Paul Alex: So you ended up transitioning $40,000. And this is in 2017?

Matt Lopez: Mm-hmm.

Paul Alex: Okay, so 2017, you end up investing in 40K, which, I mean, dude, in 2017, as even a retiree cop, 40K is a nice chunk of change.

Matt Lopez: Oh, for sure. It is. It is. A lot of people trip off just investing like $1,000 sometimes.

Paul Alex: Absolutely, yeah. So 40K, and then you end up flipping it to a quarter mil. What happens next?

Paul Alex: Then I thought I was a genius. I said, "I'm the greatest gift. Wall Street ain't got nothing on me." I thought I was the Wolf of Wall Street.

Matt Lopez: No, no, no.

Paul Alex: We made it. We're about to be multi-millionaires.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was wiping my eyes with $100 bills. No, no. So it was $250K and then it crashed. We all thought I was going to the moon at that point. Futures markets were just coming out for it. The CFTC was coming out with something, and then the whole market crashed. I wasn't down. I mean, I lost—it had dropped down to like 80 grand. The 40K turned to 250 and then it instantly was down to 80K. I was still up.

Paul Alex: Yeah, you were still up.

Matt Lopez: So I was like, "Okay, all right, that didn't go. It didn't keep going the way they thought it was going to keep going." So I was like, "Okay, this isn't the end all be all." And I was still trying to figure it out. We still had some decent money from selling our house in the Bay Area. I did run a spearfishing retail business and I taught freediving and I built gear. So we had that as well to bring in some money. And then I worked construction with my dad when he needed me three days a week. So I did that stuff. But I still knew crypto was the future. All those things were good, and we could live off of it. But it wasn't creating what I was surrounded by in Newport Beach. That wasn't going to make me millions.

Paul Alex: Yeah, Newport's another level, bro.

Matt Lopez: Oh, it was. Yeah. I mean, one of my neighbors, they started Acorns. Another one just sold his company for $250 million. The guy down the street literally moves countries with the amount of money he has. The people that started the baby carrots live two blocks from us. Just opulent type of wealth, crazy levels.

Paul Alex: No, absolutely. So what was the next move after that?

Matt Lopez: Yeah, so I just started studying. I just started listening to everything I could, reading everything I could, jumping into Telegram, Discords, whatever it was, and talking to some of these early people in it, like investors. And I realized very quickly these people were smart. Being in police work, you can kind of tell when people are just a knuckle dragger or when they have some insight. And I could tell these guys were smart. What they were talking about and when I was learning about financial markets, I could see where it was going. And the biggest thing is our phones. They're changing everything. Adoption curves, how technology moves. Even when I coached swimming, we tried to move people from a cash check paying system to using card. There was a huge uproar. We lost like half our team because we weren't getting paid on time all the time. So I said, "Hey, we're moving to this system where you put your credit card or your debit card in and it just pays it." And they're like, "You can't tell us how we're going to pay." And I was like, "Okay, well..." And half of them left. This is like early 2000s. So I just saw that this was coming. And I ended up cashing out my retirement at that time. It was like $110 grand maybe. I cashed out my retirement and my deferred comp. I told my dad and I talked to my wife and I said, "Hey, I'm going all in." We looked at real estate. We actually came out here back then doing spec homes, maybe getting into some multifamily. And I was like, "None of this is going to do what I think this will do." And so we went all in with like $110K in like 2019 at the bottom of the bear market when people were saying it was dead.

Paul Alex: Yeah. So $110K investment. And then when did it start pushing it to the limit?

Matt Lopez: Yeah. So what happened was, as the cycle ramped up—crypto usually is on a four-year cycle. That may change with institutional flow coming in this year, we'll see. But it's usually on a four-year cycle based on this mechanism called the halving. Some people argue that it's also just the business cycle or liquidity events. But every four years, there's a massive upturn and then a downturn. And we were just ramping up. And I had found basically when you had mentioned BlockFi, they were the first yield platform that would give you yield on your Bitcoin or your Ethereum or whatever it was. The first instrument that really did that for traditional folks, for normal folks. So when they came out with their product, what I did was I had put $10,000 in Ethereum at like $156 and I had put around 80 into Bitcoin and then some other ones off to the side. When that product came out, I basically supersized my portfolio. Every time the token would double in price, I would borrow half of it and buy more of it. And so I did that with Bitcoin from pretty much $10,000 all the way up to like 40 grand. And then Ethereum from $156 all the way up to like $2,500. And I just kept supersizing my portfolio to where my personal stack went from like 150 grand to like, I don't know, 2.5, 3 million, somewhere in that range.

Paul Alex: Wow. Yeah. So at that stage of the game, what is your thought process? You're like, is this a longevity play? Are you investing in other investments? What was your thought process?

Matt Lopez: Yeah, so at that point in time, I was surrounded by wealthy people who loved to talk to me because they like police stories. And a lot of financial people. So I met my current partner Brit, who works with me now. He worked for an investment bank basically and he was their institutional trader on their desk. Him and I would talk about markets and I was trying to learn from him. My partner who ended up being my partner was my neighbor. Their family started Acorns. They did E offering, took Monster or was Hanson public. And I basically started orange peeling these guys, we call it. I started getting them in on Bitcoin. I would send them things, tell them to look at it, and they all got in it. They wanted to start a fund. So I originally did a pitch deck, and I took this fund, and I started going to wealthy people, and we started pitching them on it. Then I just realized very quickly, I was like, "I don't want to manage people's money. I'm not a money manager. I have no idea. I'm comfortable with my own." Then I said, "Well, I'm really good at security stuff. There's a mining play in crypto. Let's be miners." So my partner said, "Okay." So basically we ripped out the bottom floor where Acorn started and I built a large scale Ethereum mine, like 600 GPUs. And I started mining.

Paul Alex: Wow. Yeah. And for the beginners that are listening right now and they're like, "Dude, this sounds pretty interesting. What is mining in crypto?"

Matt Lopez: Yeah. So mining is basically a proof of work concept. Ethereum is no longer proof of work. They pretty much killed GPU mining for everybody. Bitcoin is still mining. You can still mine Bitcoin. ASICs though. I don't remember what exactly an ASIC stands for, but it's a computer that only mines Bitcoin. So basically there's an algorithm and a problem and the machines try to solve this problem. And if it solves the problem, it gets the block reward. Every 10 minutes in Bitcoin, there's a new block. And if your machine solves it, you get the reward for it. So basically my GPUs for Ethereum would solve these problems. And then you can either solo mine or go to a liquidity pool. It's all kind of technical stuff. But basically I was making really good money. I was doing like 1.2 Bitcoin a month because we settled in Bitcoin or it was like 15 to 17 Ethereum. And in cash, I was making anywhere from 40 to 70 grand. And it was just pretty much myself, my father, his son, and my partner.

Paul Alex: What is everyone else telling you right now when you're trying to explain this concept? Or are you keeping it to yourself?

Matt Lopez: I pretty much just kept it to myself because we didn't need anybody. I built the mine. My partner and I pretty much funded it ourselves. I just built it. I was able to go get all the GPUs. I learned how to do it, just getting on the interwebs and figuring out how to actually configure the GPUs. I knew how to build computers from gaming back in the day. So I just built them all and started building this thing. And then with a cash flow of 40 to 70 grand a month with no employees, no partners, I didn't need anybody.

Paul Alex: It's great. Yeah.

Matt Lopez: So it was like I had zero overhead minus like a $10,000 power bill and $2,000 rent. It was just hand over fist for us at that time.

Paul Alex: Yeah, it's extremely profitable with the margins, man. That's awesome. So here's the million-dollar question. It truly is because there's going to be people who are going to ask and they're going to be like, "Dude, how do you do it?" So how did you do it? How did you go ahead and learn how to mine for Bitcoin?

Matt Lopez: I just got online in the forums. I had figured out there were guys who had done it before. Actually, I'll give a shout-out to one of the OG miners. I contacted him on Twitter from an anonymous shit poster account and said, "Hey, I really want to do this stuff. How do you do it?" And he broke it down for me. And then I had another consultation. I paid a lot of money for another guy who had a very big YouTube channel. I said, "Hey, I'll pay you $500 for an hour of your time." And he was like, "I don't really do this." And I was like, "I know, but I've watched all your videos but I have some questions." And I was like, "$500 bucks. What do you want?" And I was like, "I just want to spend an hour. I have some questions. I'm not asking for all the secret sauce, but just if you could point me in the right direction. Because I don't want to make stupid mistakes that are going to cost me a lot bigger money." And I said, "Here's what I'm trying to do. Here's what it is." And he did it. He got on the phone with me. And then I figured out, okay, this is how I do this. I was pretty good about having mentors. I didn't make a lot of mistakes when I was younger because my dad either put good coaches in front of me or himself or whatever. I listened to people who were living a good life and I just didn't have to make those mistakes myself. So I knew from this, I was like, "Okay, I just need to find somebody who's crushing in this space and I'm just going to pay them to tell me what they know and not make the mistakes myself and waste thousands of dollars doing it." And that's what I did. And I got access to these guys.

Paul Alex: Dude, and I feel like ever since I got into the online space, that's exactly what I've done every single step of the way. I've just paid people that are more experienced, already successful.

Matt Lopez: Yep.

Paul Alex: And they'd have the exact information and the blueprint.

Matt Lopez: Yeah.

Paul Alex: And the road that they can make it very easy for me.

Matt Lopez: Yeah. Well, they're also just going to confirm what you maybe already know as well. Because you don't know. Unless you've done it already, sometimes you just need that confirmation like, "Okay, I'm doing the right thing." And just keep forging forward. And maybe they haven't thought of something you're doing and they're like, "Oh, that's a really good idea." And then you're like, "Okay, I can really push this one hard." And that's what I did.

Paul Alex: No, I love that, man. And then overall, you've been doing this since 2017 now, all the way up to where we're currently in. What is this, September of 2025?

Matt Lopez: Yep.

Paul Alex: Yeah, it's insane, dude. So you've been able to go ahead and scale your crypto business with that. So now you're getting into more of mentorship and coaching in the online space. And it's time because you're like, "Dude, I'm not a selfie guy." Neither was I. But I feel like people that have success in certain niches and industries, you are doing yourself a disservice by not giving access to people. Because just like you said, dude, you paid somebody off of YouTube. The guy's like, "I really don't know this." That is the stupidest thing in my opinion that any YouTuber with a following can do is not have a coaching program. Especially if you have a huge following. Me, I'm the reverse. I don't have a massive following on YouTube. I need a start. Like I was telling you, dude.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, you should.

Paul Alex: I need a start. But I've been massively, decently successful in the coaching space, but I focus on niched businesses. So within your program, within your mentorship, basically you take a beginner. What is the process that you take a beginner to go ahead and start generating the same type of either revenue or results that you've been able to experience?

Matt Lopez: Well, I think the biggest thing that I first do is I give them a financial education from my point of view, because I think a lot of people don't have an understanding of what money truly is. So I try to do that. Like, "Hey, money is ultimately the value that you create in the world and whether or not you're being compensated fairly for it. It's your energy." So we start there. And then I also supplement a lot of other things because I think a lot of people are sometimes afraid to be called out or compromised or whatever. It's not my way or the highway. I have only been successful because I feel like I take a lot of ideas from everybody else and then I create my own. But I want you to listen to other people as well. So it's not just me that you're listening to. So that's the other things. I give a lot of resources, things that I use on my journey. And then I think the other thing that I do is I try to make it safe for them so that they understand, "Okay, this is a safe place." And then I do, like I've just had actually some calls since we've been back from Dallas. And the minute I start going on, I was like, "I'm going to show you a lot today just so you know that this is all real." Because most people don't understand how the crypto space works. And as soon as I do it, they're like, "Oh my goodness, I did not understand how large and how many things are being built in this space." And that's what it looks like to start with me. Basically, I'll show you everything and then we'll start getting the reps in because you have to learn it. It's still early.

Paul Alex: A couple of things that you said, man, it ties directly into your law enforcement career when you had your sergeant who was great at everything. And he would show you the path. Very similar attributes as how you were probably talking to your current clients. So very unique how that happens, guys. Your environment really, really reflects the type of person that you are or the experiences that you've gone through. Great, man. So if somebody wants to get into crypto now, what would be three steps that you would give a beginner right now listening to this? And they're like, "Dude, how can I go ahead and do more research to see if this is for me?"

Matt Lopez: Research is interesting because you're going to get...

Paul Alex: From a beginner perspective. Because I know you're super genius on this.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, yeah. I'm deep in the weeds on it. I mean, the research from a beginner, man, that's a tough one.

Paul Alex: Would you say like a podcast, a specific YouTube channel, like somebody that you can refer to? A book?

Matt Lopez: Yeah. I would say the number one podcast that I always recommend is *We Study Billionaires*, and it was Michael Saylor and Preston Pysh. And this is from 2020. That's the number one podcast I say because when you hear that, that's the biggest thing that changes your financial understandings. That's the number one podcast that I like for normies. Because in the early days, we were listening to way different people. And there are people that talked about Bitcoin on Rogan's show for a long time. Andreas Antonopoulos is one of the early Bitcoiners that changed a lot of our understanding of it. But Michael Saylor changed it for traditional folks. He was the head of MicroStrategy, now Strategy. And people really resonate with what he has to say. A podcast that I do listen to on the regular, and actually we were in Discord rooms together back in 2017, is a guy named Scott Melker, *Wolf of All Streets*. That's a great podcast that's on YouTube. He runs it every day. And you can actually probably go back and see everything that he has done. That's a great place to start as well. And then there's another guy who actually I was in Discord rooms back in 2017, followed my thing there. A lot of these guys have similar trajectories. Some of us made a lot of money, lost it all. Another guy is named Ran Neuner. I was actually listening to him on the way over here. He made a ton of money in 2017, like I want to say $100 million, and then lost it all the same way with the hedge fund in the next run, and he's back up again. So these are guys that have been in the space. They went on and created content. Some of the guys that I started with went on and started trading. There's a guy, he started trading. His name's CryptoFace, unreal trader, trades literally $20 million positions now. I went into the investing, leveraging, and did no social media. CryptoFace started trading. One of the most successful traders now, hunted by big exchanges. Scott Melker and Ran Neuner started trading, went on to do hedge funds and a very successful podcast. And I just sat there and just provided for my family.

Paul Alex: But dude, I mean, you have a life where I like to call life by design. You have a beautiful family, dude. You're able to do what you want. You have the options. And that's what it's about, right? So what would you say is your biggest why right now, dude?

Matt Lopez: Hmm. I mean, it's always my family. Of course.

Paul Alex: Yeah.

Matt Lopez: It's always. But is there something specific within your family? Like maybe building options for your girls or your son?

Paul Alex: Yes and no. I get torn on that. And my wife and I have talked about that multiple times. I want to give my kids opportunity, but I don't want to give them wealth.

Matt Lopez: I like that.

Paul Alex: Zero wealth for them. And I don't mind helping them because, the big thing, my father, I remember him giving. He always gave whatever he could. I needed $20 for gas, I needed whatever, always did it. And I saw the work he did and I appreciate how hard he worked. And then my mom kept the house afloat. So I always knew what his dollar was worth. I remember I had just bought our house or we were getting ready to buy the house. I had bought my wife's ring which was really expensive. I was working a ton of overtime and I didn't have the deposit for our house. So my dad helped me with the down payment. And it wasn't much because I did a 3.5, but I knew what that money was worth to him because I knew how hard he worked. There was like 15 grand or 17 grand to put our first down payment down. So I think for my kids, I'll help them with things like that, but I definitely don't want to leave them a fund or anything like that because I've seen what that does. So the really good thing for me that I want to leave them is an opportunity. If they want to build something, if they want to go and do something, I will provide the opportunity. Whether I will help seed fund it, whether knowledge, whether I'll give them the job that they need within it. But I don't necessarily want the nepotism of it. I want them to earn their position. Because my dad, I wasn't lead man when I started working construction. I was low man on the totem pole. I did the shit jobs. Sometimes when I was digging ditches, I didn't even get the tool. I had to use the hand tools where everybody else is using all the rototillers and everything else. So he didn't give me foreman right off the bat. I had to earn that shit for 10 years of hard work with him. So yeah, because I already think my kids, as much as I love them, I think they're soft. I think they're not like... I didn't grow up as hard as my dad did. And I know my kids are growing up amazing. And I just want them to have that drive because I know you didn't get anything. I don't feel like I got a whole lot. I never expected anything from my parents. And I think I've just seen families that go sideways when the kids are given everything.

Matt Lopez: Dude, that's a great perspective, man. I mean, I've seen it both ways, especially interviewing quite a few people on this podcast now. It's usually two different paths to generalize it. One path is you've got to make it happen because you go through the mud, you go through the trenches, you eat a shit sandwich, and you just have to make it happen from all the pain and experiences and then not wanting to be in that environment anymore.

Paul Alex: Absolutely.

Matt Lopez: And then the second phase is typically you were raised in a household where your parents guided you and they told you, and the parents probably had a great job or they were probably a great role model. So they already had the inspirations to be like their parents. But no, I like it, dude. I like the breakdown. You're giving them the options, possibly like JV with them, have them do all the hard work and the fundamentals to keep them successful.

Paul Alex: Yeah, because what's the point of giving them the success automatically and then they don't know how to run it well? And I think the other thing too is that everything that you've built, you built. You did it. And there's a sense of pride. And also you've built that pathway to know no matter what you encounter in life, you can survive it.

Matt Lopez: 100%.

Paul Alex: Because of whatever you come through. Whereas if I seed a $5 million project for one of my kids and they go on and build this massive company and then it crashes, are they going to wait for me to seed another one for them to fail on it? Or do they know, like I built this, it all went away, I can do it again. So if everything fails for me, I know I can go out there and I can start again. I can do it. It's going to suck. But I know that I can do this because I've already done it. I built those pathways of hard work, of not quitting. No one helped me start it. No one gave me the money. So, yeah, I'm trying to think of that now because obviously my kids are getting older.

Matt Lopez: Time flies, bro.

Paul Alex: Just like we're saying, we're getting older, bro. It flies so fast. And I think I have changed some things too with our kids. I try not to tell them how smart they are, even though they are. I just try to tell them they work hard. Like, "You did this because you worked really hard." And I just wanted to focus on that because I'm sure you've interviewed all the people that you do. It doesn't matter how smart you are. They may have great ideas, but it's the people that constantly show up. Even if they're not the smartest, execution even if it's not the best, as long as you keep going, like you said, imperfect action, just take action. And those are the people that ultimately win. So I want my kids not to focus on how intelligent they are. I want them to focus on hard work. "You made this happen because you kept showing up. You keep coming every day." Because if they think, "Oh, my smart idea doesn't work," and now they're like, "I'm not smart enough," they just quit. Whereas if they think, "I work hard, I'm going to make this happen," boom, they can keep going.

Matt Lopez: I love that, man. I love that. Okay, so this is the level up. As you know, we're about self-help, about uplifting beginners, nine to five first responders. What would you tell your audience right now that's going to listen to this interview? Because you have such a great, compelling story, dude. I mean, people are probably going to think you're lying.

Paul Alex: I'm just keeping it honest, bro. You know how many times on socials they're like, "You fucking liar. You are the cop." Here's the best part: you can Google a lot of the things from police work. And there's a few stories that come up, some good, some bad. And then the other thing is, everybody that's been on a call with me in crypto, because it's a blockchain, I have shown everyone on a call that I have actually done what I've said I've done. Because it's right there.

Matt Lopez: Yeah, dude. I'm pretty sure in the next coming up months, we're going to start doing a little bit more content creation. And you're going to be showing all that jazz. So it'll be good, dude. You're going to force me. But what would be a couple words of encouragement, man? So this is your audience right here. Just think about like you were on stage just like last Saturday. And just give them words of encouragement to level up, dude.

Paul Alex: I would just say keep going. Every day, show up and just keep going. Do not quit. I have a saying: "Don't get captured." And there were plenty of times in life where I was not in a good place. I probably wasn't the best husband, wasn't the best father. But I just kept going. And every day... I should take that. It's not just "keep going." It's literally no one else is responsible for the way that you feel and how things are going for you. And no matter how you feel or what you're going through, it's nobody else's fault. You just have to take accountability. And if you can push through that, you're going to succeed always.

Matt Lopez: I love that, guys. And that's the level up, guys. Matt, where can they find you? Instagram, Facebook? What are the handles?

Paul Alex: Yeah, Instagram is at Precision Matt.

Matt Lopez: Precision Matt. Okay. And then anything else that you want to leave them with as far as just like any information they should study up on crypto before they come and talk to you?

Paul Alex: No.

Matt Lopez: No?

Paul Alex: I think the best thing is just like in police work, if they have nothing, they don't have anything, then it's very easy because they're going to learn it the right way. They're not going to do anything dumb right off the bat and lose money.

Matt Lopez: Absolutely. So, guys, whether you're a first responder, 9 to 5, or you're looking to invest into the blockchain crypto, but you don't know how, like me, right? I'm going to go ahead and start investing with Matt here in December. I told him, dude, I'm so slammed right now. I got a kid on the way. I'm moving, selling a house and all that jazz. But it's the future. I mean, you can't stop it, guys. So if you guys are interested in going ahead and learning how to invest in crypto for the future, for your family, for generational wealth, make sure to shoot them a DM on Instagram. With that being said, guys, we are currently top five right now. What's the date today, Emilio? September 10th. September 10th, guys. That's right. September 10th, we are top five in all categories, number one in business on Apple Podcasts because of you guys. We're going to try to hit $5 million downloads this month. With that being said, leave a five-star review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. This is Paul Alex, The Level Up Podcast. We'll catch you on the next one. Peace. Thank you.