--:-- Mel Robbins: Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for our topic today because we have one mother of a topic. What is it? Motherhood. So me personally, I'm a mom of three adult kids, and I got to say, motherhood, it is a journey, and there are some days it just feels like a bad trip. Boy, have I made some mistakes. And whether you're a mom, you want to be one, you've lost one, or you're still trying to figure out your relationship with yours, I cannot wait to have this conversation with you.
--:-- And you don't need to be a mom, by the way, or even want to be a mom to get something out of what we're gonna talk about. Because what we're really talking about is relationships and how to think about the topic of motherhood and your relationship with your mom or your adult kids in a whole new way. And we're gonna cover it all. The surprises, the struggles, the things I wish I had known sooner, the things I would go back in time and change if I could time travel and snap my fingers and do that.
--:-- I'm gonna talk about the guilt, the expectations, the pressure to do it all perfectly. And if you're a new mom or you're about to be a new mom, I'm gonna tell you the things that no one else will tell you. And if your kids are already grown like mine, we're gonna talk about how to build the strongest relationships with them yet, even when you screwed a lot of things up like I did. If you've ever wanted a better understanding of your mom, our conversation today is going to help you see her in a whole new way. And if your mom is still with us, she is going to love to hear this conversation too.
--:-- [Music fades in and out]
--:-- Mel Robbins: Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm so excited for our conversation today. I love spending time with you. It's always an honor to be together. And if you're a brand new listener, I just wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Boy, have you picked a winner. And because you made the time to hit play and listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You're the kind of person who values your family — and that can be your given family, it can be your chosen family — and you also value celebrating the special people in your life.
--:-- I wanna tell you something before we jump into the topic of all things moms and kids and the connection between you and your mom. Someone sent you this episode. I'll tell you why. It's because they really wanna have a closer connection with you. And if you're a mom, they probably sent it to you also to tell you, you did a good job. And I think you're gonna love hearing the conversation today. Because today, you and I are talking all about moms. And you certainly have a mom, or if she's no longer with us, you had one, or you had a mother figure.
--:-- And if you are a mom or if you're about to be a mom or if you're wondering, "Do I even wanna have kids?" Well, this is going to make you think so differently. First of all, about your own experience growing up, about the role of a parent, about the fears that are so normal to have before you become a parent, the questions that people have about whether or not they even wanna become a mom or a dad. This conversation is going to just crack open your heart. It's going to make you think about your own childhood, about your own mom.
--:-- You're going to want to share this with your sisters, with your friends, with your mom, your daughter-in-laws, your daughters, anybody that's about to have kids or just had a baby. I cannot wait to see how this opens up really amazing conversations with you and the people that you care about. It makes you think differently about one of the most important jobs in the world — and that's the job of being a mom.
--:-- And today, I'm so excited to dive into this because I have my friend and colleague, Jessie, here. And Jessie is one month away from becoming a mom for the first time. She's terrified and excited. And so today, we're sitting down, you and me, with Jessie, and we're getting real and honest about what nobody tells you about motherhood. And I'm super excited because Jessie literally could have her water break in the middle of this. That is how pregnant she is. I'm so excited to dive into this. Everything from pregnancy, parenting, priorities, guilt, your relationship with your own parents. Let's get into it.
--:-- Jessie, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You know what's crazy about this, Jessie?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Normally you're the one filming.
--:-- Jessie: I know. I know.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, this is the only way I could get you off your feet because your blood pressure is high.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And I know you're not supposed to be standing up. And so we put you in a chair and handed you a mic and now we're going to talk all things motherhood. You ready?
--:-- Mel Robbins: How long have we worked together?
--:-- Jessie: Four years.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Four years. Okay. So we've worked together for four years. Really?
--:-- Jessie: I know. Gosh.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And so Jessie's pregnant with her first child. And what's really weird sitting with you is that I'm sitting here and I feel like we're at two totally different ends of the mom scale, right? Where you are cooking a little baby in there and you're about to be a mom. And today is Sawyer's 26th birthday and Kendall is 24 and Oakley is 19, soon to be 20. And so having — I can't believe I've been a mom for 26 years.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And they still talk to me.
--:-- Jessie: Yes, they want to talk to you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So you're 36 weeks pregnant.
--:-- Mel Robbins: How are you feeling?
--:-- Jessie: Oh my God. A lot is going on in my mind right now. Life is about to completely change in, I think, the most beautiful, fulfilling way and terrifying way. And so that is what I'm so excited that we're here, that we get to just talk, have some girl talk.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yes, yes. And talk motherhood and everything that's coming with it. And there are so many things that I love about you, Jessie. And since you may not have met Jessie, I just want to tell you a little bit about Jessie. So Jessie and I met here in Southern Vermont because we were both dragged here by people we love. She was dragged here by her husband and his job, and she left her dream job. So Jessie is not, like I would say, the kind of person who is like super a girl girl. You know what I'm saying? She worked at NASCAR. She was a producer and a video editor for the Baltimore Ravens. And then she moved up here and we've worked together for four years and she's run the studios up here. And so she's edited like probably at least two thirds of the podcast episodes, shot a ton of them here. And so she is not somebody that I ever see get all that emotional about things, but she's already got tears in her eyes.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So terrified. What are you terrified about?
--:-- Jessie: Oh, gosh. There's the whole — there's a fear of obviously the pain part of it, of actually pushing out a baby or however this little one is going to make her entrance.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yep. Like a cannonball through your legs is what's going to happen.
--:-- Jessie: Yes. Yes. Which like, oh my God, no one can really prepare you for that.
--:-- Mel Robbins: No. But your body knows.
--:-- Jessie: Knows. And it's going to be 10 steps ahead of me. It already is, which is amazing.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yep. Because just so you understand as you're listening to us, Jessie also is having some high blood pressure. And so the baby is coming probably a month early.
--:-- Mel Robbins: She's not going to make it 40 weeks.
--:-- Jessie: She's not going to make it 40 weeks.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And so this could happen any day. And if my answer scared Jessie enough, we might just have the water break while we're filming this.
--:-- Jessie: Yep. Live. Live.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yeah. I think it's that. It's the unknown. It's the fear of having her be born. And then the fear of like, how the hell do I do this? How do you be a mom? Period. Never done this before. What do you think the job of a mom is?
--:-- Jessie: The first word that comes to mind is — here we go — protect her. And I think there's a beautiful relationship there, especially since I'm having a little girl.
--:-- Mel Robbins: That I think is so exciting to have that relationship with and to do it how I want to do it. And then it just brings on like, well, I want to do it right. I want to make sure she knows how much she's loved. I want to make sure she knows how special she is, how important she is in this world, how valued she is in this world. So a lot of things come with that.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, I think the fact that you've already listed off all those things means you're going to do it right to the best of your ability.
--:-- Jessie: I'm going to try.
--:-- Mel Robbins: What do you think doing it right looks like?
--:-- Jessie: Oh man, so many things. I think it can be the start of packing the right things with a hospital bag. It can be the start of — I mean, it's so stupid how much of that stuff takes up space in my mind. But doing it right, as far as having — you know, making it to 40 weeks. I don't know if I'm going to make it to 40 weeks.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oh, for God's sakes. Jessie, you think doing it right means going 40 weeks?
--:-- Jessie: Yes, they're doing it where — not naturally, but just letting my body do it when my body wants to do it, not get induced.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So you think you're doing it wrong if you get induced?
--:-- Jessie: Oh my God, it's been a roller coaster this week. I think I put so much pressure on myself to let myself listen to my body first. And now it's like, nope, you're going to have to probably get some help to start this. So that feels like I'm already not doing it right. And then it's also just how to do it right with how to raise. How do you properly raise a little human? I don't know why you're asking me. You've done it three times. So what do you think it means to get motherhood right?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Raise a good human.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Because you're very hard on yourself.
--:-- Jessie: A little bit.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So is there a right way to have the baby? Like you're 36 weeks pregnant right now. What would getting it right look like?
--:-- Jessie: In my head, this is so — again, this narrative I've created.
--:-- Jessie: That just says you want to go into labor naturally. And right now, as of this week, my doctor said that ain't going to happen. So scratch that off.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay. And how does that make you feel?
--:-- Jessie: Because I feel I've asked every doctor that I've had to see, like, did I do something wrong? Did I not exercise enough? Did I not eat the right things? Did I not sleep enough? Did I not? The list goes on. And every time that's no, no, no, no, no, nothing you did. But still, I can't help but think I didn't do it right, quote unquote, to have her come naturally.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I actually have a totally different point of view about this.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I think now that she is actually able to survive without you, she has a soul and a spirit and a force of her own, and she is coming when she's damn ready, and she's going to come however she's supposed to come.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And it is all divinely ordered, and your biggest breakthrough as a parent is going to be to trust.
--:-- Mel Robbins: To trust in her, to trust in Jim, to trust in you to figure it out. Because if you focus on getting it right, you will actually put that anxiety on your child because she will sense when you feel like you've gotten it wrong and then she's going to start to feel like she's somehow responsible for that.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And isn't it interesting that you're sitting here focused on, "I got to hit the due date and I got to go naturally and I got to make sure that happens because this has got to be like hitting the bullseye with a dart." It's crazy.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You're doing that to yourself.
--:-- Jessie: Yeah, 100%.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And by the way, the 40 weeks is a guesstimate. That does not mean — Sawyer came two weeks late.
--:-- Jessie: Oh my God. Seriously.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And it doesn't surprise me. Of course she did. We had to drag her out of me with a vacuum and with forceps.
--:-- Jessie: She's comfy.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yeah. She just was like, "I'm not ready."
--:-- Mel Robbins: I've worked out the details here. It was just like — it was honestly, that was the precursor to the experience of writing The Let Them Theory book with her. Because we were just like in tension all the time. I wanted to go this way. I'm not coming this way. And so trust your daughter.
--:-- Mel Robbins: She chose you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Sorry, what's that bring up for you?
--:-- Jessie: It brings up the path to get to her because it was not an easy path. We lost two before her. And you're right, there's a reason she made it and she's here and she is a little soul already. And they keep reiterating how healthy she is and how everything's good in there. And there's a reason it's her.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And I want to validate that the feelings that you have of fear because you've lost two pregnancies — very real. And it's a sign that you're mentally well.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Dr. Lisa DeMoor gave us that reframe. It's a sign that you're mentally well after two experiences like that to be nervous about how this goes.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay. And you can hold space to be nervous and at the same time trust in your body and in your daughter and in your doctors and in the fact that she is 36 weeks old and she's going to be just fine. You can trust in that and also be nervous. That's okay. That's how you do this is you hold space for both. And that's exactly what parenting is. Parenting is holding space for your experience and the experience of another human being.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Parenting is being able to hold space when your child is upset and struggling and be able to comfort them and also stand in the belief that you have the ability as a parent to be a guiding force and they have their own unique experience and are capable of learning from life with you by their side. And if you stay in that lane — that parenting is about holding space for you and this other human being and trusting in the process of growing and learning together and understanding that your role is guiding and supporting and trusting in their own unique capacity to learn and to grow into who they are — then there's nothing to get right. Nothing.
--:-- Mel Robbins: What does that mean to you?
--:-- Jessie: It makes me think about — so how do you remove that pressure right now that I'm totally putting on myself? No one else is doing this. Jim's not doing it. And I think I can already see like that pressure is probably going to come back when she's five, when she's 10, when she's 20. Like how do you remove the parenting pressure?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, I just think it's something you deal with every single day. And you get to decide if you want to go through life as a mom and put that much pressure on yourself. Or like, you know, The Let Them Theory could actually be very helpful. Because right now you can be like, "Let her come when she's ready."
--:-- Mel Robbins: "And let me just honor how I feel. And let me also remind myself that I trust that everything's going to be okay."
--:-- Jessie: Yes. I love that.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And so I feel like that's a way to hold space for two things to be true. And, you know, the other thing is, is that you are going to screw things up.
--:-- Mel Robbins: There would be no therapists if parents did not screw up parenting.
--:-- Jessie: So true. Yes.
--:-- Mel Robbins: There wouldn't be. I mean, you would have therapy for the kind of pain and trauma that human beings inflict on people in other settings. But I bet the vast majority of therapists are actually working through the stuff that kids experience with parents. And we all do it. I screwed up majorly with my kids because I was not in control of my own anxiety. I was volatile with my stress and my emotions. I was a shouter. I had a very short fuse. I took work stress out on them. And so it created in at least my two daughters this sense of being on edge because I was that mom that was wildly fun and then wildly pissed off. And so who are we going to get today?
--:-- Mel Robbins: And what do I need to do to make sure my mom's okay? Because I want the one that's happy and fun. I don't want the one that's pissed off at the world.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And so I think that, you know, you will screw things up and you have to give yourself grace because as your child grows, you're going to grow and learn. That's how you do it.
--:-- Jessie: That's awesome. Yeah.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And, you know, you can also apologize to your kids. I certainly have. "I'm really sorry I was not able to be a person that had a more stable emotional personality when you guys were younger. I'm really sorry that dad and I were fighting all the time when we were struggling financially." I'm really sorry that there were mornings where my kids literally would be ready. They'd get themselves ready for the buses when we were really struggling financially. I'm trying to think — the kids were like 10 and eight. And Sawyer and Kendall would literally wake Chris and I up. We were in these chairs, Jessie, drunk. We had been drinking all night because of all the financial stress. And they'd like tap, tap, tap. "And the bus is coming."
--:-- Mel Robbins: And I screwed that up. And so it's okay to apologize.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You're not supposed to be perfect. You just do the best that you can with the resources that you have and the skill set that you have. And, you know, there's this concept that I absolutely love. This comes from both Dr. Nicola Perla and Dr. Russell Kennedy. And there's this concept of a parental mismatch, which means there are going to be times when you're parenting, given what you're doing in your life, given where Jim is, given the age of your kids, where you and your kids are a mismatch. What your kids need, ideally, in terms of the support they need or the emotional reassurance they need, is not something based on your skills or your life experience or what's going on in your life that you're actually able to give them.
--:-- And in those moments where there's a mismatch — they need something and you're giving them everything you have to give, but it's not satiating what they need. And I think this is where there's a lot of stuff that comes up when you get older with your parents. And there's a lot of stuff online — trauma and this and that. Not to say the terrible stuff didn't go down, but we're very quick to talk about the impact and injury to us and not that compassionate with understanding that you were likely dealing with a human being in your parents who was emotionally immature, who had trauma of their own, who did not get their needs met by their parents. And so they show up to the world of parenting having skills, experiences, past experiences, an emotional state, financial stress, issues that you're not aware of, and they do the best they can with where they're at.
--:-- And there's this visual that I talk about a lot. It's Pastor T.D. Jakes, and I believe he's talking to Oprah Winfrey, talking about how if you're dealing with a person that has a quarter cup of capacity for support and love, but you're a gallon person — if your parent, because of their past, can only give you a quarter cup, that's never going to feel like they actually saw you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: But to your parent, they gave you everything they had to give.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And that's what I mean by the mismatch. So when I was extremely stressed out and I was drinking too much and Chris and I were fighting because of the financial pressure, my kids needed me to be present. I was not. My kids deserved and needed a mom that when they got home from school, weren't walking up to the front door going, "Uh-oh, who's in there?"
--:-- Jessie: Right, right.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Not that I was beating them, but emotionally, they didn't know what was going to come. I might be stressed. I might be frustrated. I might be angry. I might be yelling about the dad or this or that. I might be sad. And so I was a complete mismatch for what they actually needed. Does that make sense?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Even though I was trying with every cell in my body to do the best that I could. And so fast forward a decade, I apologize a lot for that because they didn't deserve that. And if I could go back in time — you know, people always ask, "What advice would you give your younger self?" If I could go back in time, actually, I would help the younger parent version of me with my own emotional maturity and regulation so that I could be a safe place to land for my kids.
--:-- Jessie: Yeah, that makes complete sense.
--:-- Mel Robbins: What surprised you the most about motherhood?
--:-- Jessie: I think the thing that surprises me the most is how much you have to change your approach given the situation or if you have several kids, which kid you're dealing with.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Like my philosophy about parenting is that your job is to be a guide. You're a guide in helping her become who she's supposed to be.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And so that's a very different role than thinking, "I'm a parent, we're a family that skis. I'm a parent, we're a family that plays lacrosse. I'm a parent, everybody in our family is a doctor." Well, that's your vision. That's not guiding somebody. That's dictating who they are based on your expectations. If you embrace the role of a parent to be, "I am a guide that is helping somebody figure out who they are," which means I make it safe for them to feel what they feel. I am open and generous and supportive with all the things they want to try. If they want to do music instead of sports, let them.
--:-- Mel Robbins: If they end up falling in love with somebody that you don't like, let them. Like your job is not to dictate who this person is. Your job is to create an environment where it's safe for them to discover who they are. Literally, this comes from Dr. Stuart Ablon, who I just love from Harvard Medical School and Mass General Brigham. He calls it the "with them" parenting approach. "Well, what do you want to do about it? How can I support you?" Even your six-year-old can think about some of these things. "How do you feel about that?" Because what you're doing when you start to ask questions like that is you're guiding your child and inviting them to think through situations because they're going to have to learn as an adult to live with the consequences of their decisions.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So helping them think through situations and being curious about what they might think — that's a super important aspect of this. Because, you know, the whole point, Jessie, is for your daughter to actually get through high school and leave.
--:-- Mel Robbins: That's the point.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And if you do it well, they not only leave and have the tools to create a life, but because you've been a guide and not a dictator and because you have also created a safe space, they're always going to come back.
--:-- Mel Robbins: They're always going to want to see you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And that's the one thing I'm so proud of with all three of our kids is that I think the one thing that Chris and I did really well is that we tried to get our egos out of the way and we tried our best to create an environment where our kids could truly become who they're meant to be.
--:-- Jessie: Love that. Yes.
--:-- Jessie: That's beautiful. When I first started here, I'll never forget this because I thought it was such an incredible moment that I got to kind of be a fly on the wall too. When Kendall was up here, I think she had run up and asked you a question about something, and your question to her was, "Do you want my advice or do you want me to listen?" And I remember being like, "Oh my god, that's brilliant."
--:-- Mel Robbins: I think I remember this.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yeah. Because this was before the room looked like this and she came tearing upstairs about something.
--:-- Jessie: Yeah. Yeah.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay. This is the single most important question a parent could ever ask a child. "Do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen?" And the reason why this question is so important is because for me personally, nine times out of 10, if your kid comes to you with a problem or they're upset about something, or they're just even talking about something — I mean, we're older, we have more life experience. So of course we just jump right in to the conversation and start solving and offering solutions. And your kids don't want that. What they want is they want you to listen.
--:-- And so that question — I can't remember who I learned it from — "Do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen?" — stops you from stepping in and dictating what your kid does. When you say, "Do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen?" you're actually letting them have their own experience. You're letting them share their life with you. And then the second part of that, when you let me be a guide, not a dictator — "Do you want my advice or just want me to listen?" — now I'm guiding the conversation and I'm signaling that I actually believe in your ability to know what you want and to ask for what you want. And this beautiful space opens up between the two of you.
--:-- And what I discovered with my kids anyway is that 99% of the time, they do not want my advice. They just want a safe place to come and air it out. And that's that. And you can use that in a marriage. You can use it with friendship anytime somebody comes to you, but particularly kids. I want you to say, "Do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen?" And you're going to be surprised not only about how often they just need you to listen, but actually if you ask them, "Well, have you thought what you might want to do about it?" — how smart they actually are.
--:-- This feels like a great place to hit the pause button because as a pregnant woman, I know you have to go to the bathroom.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And I also wanted to give you a chance to share this with people in your life, whether it's your mom and dad or somebody in your life that is about to have a baby or maybe has a little baby or maybe it's one of your adult kids and you want to open up a door to be able to talk about their experiences and your experiences and what you can both learn from them. So share this. Don't go anywhere. We're going to let Jessie go to the bathroom. I might go to the bathroom too, but we're both going to be waiting for you after a short break. Stay with us.
--:-- [Music fades in and out]
--:-- Mel Robbins: Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are hanging out with Jessie. She's 36 weeks pregnant. She's about to have her first daughter. We're so excited here at the Mel Robbins Podcast. And Jessie, one other thing that I really want to say, because this was a mistake that I made when our kids got into middle school — the single most important thing that you have to protect is your kids' trust in you. And the fastest way for you to guarantee that your kids will never tell you anything is if your kids come to you — "Do you want my advice or just want to listen?" — right? So your kids come to you and they start telling you about things that are going on with their friends or at school. You are going to want to call your friends, especially if they're the parents of the other kids. You are going to want to tell the other parents what's going on. And you have to be very careful because if your child comes to you out of trust and is just sharing what's going on with their life, that's a beautiful thing. It shows that they trust you.
--:-- If they said, "Don't tell anybody. Don't tell anybody." And if you go to another parent or you go to another friend and you then share what they told you — if it's another parent, that parent's going to tell their child and then that child's going to tell it back at school. And then your kid is going to find out at school that you broke their trust.
--:-- Mel Robbins: If you say, "I won't tell your father," and then you tell their father, and then you say to the father, "Don't tell them." And then the father tells them — you just broke the trust. And so there's a couple caveats to this. So if any of my kids ever came to me and said, "Don't tell dad," what I would say to them is, "I understand why you may not want me to, but dad and I are a team and dad loves you. And I'm asking your permission to tell him because I'm uncomfortable withholding information from him. And I promise you you're not going to get in trouble and I promise you we're going to work together on this and I promise you that he won't tell anybody. But I need your permission to tell him. Or you and I can go together and you can tell him when I'm with you. What would you like to do?"
--:-- And it's so cool because there has never been an instance where they haven't said okay. They may have been scared of his reaction, but what you're also cutting off at the knees is that thing that kids do so beautifully where they separate the two of you and then they turn the two of you against each other.
--:-- And the other caveat I would say — if they go, "I don't want you to tell anybody." Be like, "Well, that's actually not one of the options, honey. And I think you came to me because you know that and you know me." And what that does is it keeps the trust between you and your child. Because if you break that trust, they're now going to take every issue in their life to their friends. And they're never going to tell you anything.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And it just empowers them.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And by the way, this is true whether you have kids or not. This is true of friendship. This is true of a partnership. This is true about how your mom might complain about your dad. Do you allow people to share information and then do you actually trust? Do you seek permission to tell? Do you tell somebody, "I'm uncomfortable knowing this without being able to do something?" You have more power than you realize in these situations. And if you really want to prioritize trust with somebody, then really take seriously those moments where somebody shares something with you. And if you do want to tell somebody, ask permission and explain why.
--:-- And if you got it wrong — how I learned this lesson is I actually got it wrong. I had one of my kids come to me and tell me something that was going on. And then I casually shared it. It was about drinking, you know, in like high school. I casually shared it with one of my closest friends because I just assumed she knew about this party. Her daughter hadn't told her that's where they were. So then the daughter gets grounded and then blames my daughter. And then it becomes this whole thing. And I did that to myself. And so I learned this the hard way and it took me a couple years to actually build up trust again with my daughter because I was the one who broke it.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And I think you feel like you're in a good trust place now with all three.
--:-- Jessie: Oh my God. I know too much. It's like too much. Can't you talk to your gynecologist about that?
--:-- Mel Robbins: [Laughs] What's one moment where you completely, quote, messed up as a mom? And what did it teach you?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oh, my gosh. You know, I have so many moments that I've messed up as a mom. Oh, I know a good one.
--:-- Jessie: Oh, I know a good one.
--:-- Jessie: All right. Let's hear it.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oh, my gosh. Our son Oakley had the most annoying anxiety in the world. He would get all worked up because whenever we would go anywhere that was new, there was this range of time where everything was collapsing in his life. We didn't know he had dyslexia yet. He was changing schools. All this stuff was changing. His anxiety was through the roof and he became extraordinarily anxious about everything. And he had this incredible fear of throwing up, incredible fear.
--:-- There were a number of moments where... Like there are so many moments. There were moments where we spent all this money to take the kids to go see this particular Broadway show where Ben Platt was in it. We're up in the balcony and Oakley starts having a panic attack because he thinks he's going to throw up. So we have to leave in the middle of the show and go in front of everybody at the end of the song, where the finale and your knees are up against the thing. And I'm so angry at him. This poor little guy. And I couldn't be kind.
--:-- We were on an airplane once and he starts freaking out and wiggling. "I'm going to throw up. I'm going to throw up." And I'm like, "You're not going to throw up." I'm taking him to the thing and I would get so frustrated. We get out, and of course he vomits all over the airport.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Poor Luke. I'm an asshole because it became such a thing that instead of meeting it with compassion, I felt so ill-equipped with how to deal with it. I met it with anger and frustration. Nine times out of ten, it was nothing. It was nothing for me in terms of he wasn't throwing up. It was just this thing that became a trigger.
--:-- We were talking about it the other day, actually. As we were talking about it, I started to cry. I was just like, "I am so sorry. You didn't get the support you deserved. That's on me." The second that you felt scared or upset or thought you were going to throw up, I wish I would have just put my arms around you and comforted you. I would have in the beginning, and then he'd just get so worked up and then I get frustrated with it. I apologized and apologized and apologized. We were sitting there the other night here. That is something that I wish I could go back and change because I think I made his anxiety worse.
--:-- I think it's normal to get frustrated and exacerbated with your kids, especially when they have mental health problems or a lot of behavioral stuff, or you're just going through situations where you can't catch a break. But I just feel so bad at how I would just get... I must have been like a grizzly bear to him.
--:-- Jessie: I love that you had that conversation with him about it.
--:-- Mel Robbins: He was like, "It's okay, mom." I'm like, "No, it's actually not okay. I need you to understand." And I started crying that I really screwed up. You deserve somebody in your life that could actually meet that moment and comfort you. I take responsibility for the fact that this stuck around for several years because I'd say half of the times when this was happening, because it was always out in public, I just got so frustrated with you. And I'm so sorry, Jessie.
--:-- Jessie: I'm so glad we're having this conversation.
--:-- Mel Robbins: First of all, your daughter is our first baby here at the Mel Robbins Podcast 143 Studios. You're not going to be alone because you have so many mother hens that are about to swoop in. You'll never even be able to hold your daughter. So I'm so excited.
--:-- Because I see a stack of questions from listeners, and now that we've covered a lot of the stuff about your questions, don't go anywhere because we're going to be digging into your relationship with your parents, adult kids, the mistakes that you may have made or that your mother and father may have made when you were growing up. We have so many incredible questions from you to dig into when we return. Stay with us.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are having an amazing conversation about the experience of being a kid, of parenting, of your relationship with your parents, mistakes made, things that you can do better, how to get closer to somebody. We're going to jump into more topics around parenting itself.
--:-- As you listen, even if you're not a parent, I want you to think about your own parents and your relationship with your parents. If you are a parent, none of the things that I'm sharing are the right way to do it. I guarantee you, you're going to start to reflect back on the way that you did things. I can't wait to hear the things that you share in the comments. I also can't wait to see who you share this with in your family and how it opens up a really awesome opportunity to talk about your growing up, to talk about the things that you've learned, to talk about the things that you wish you would have done differently.
--:-- With that, I'm joined by Jessie, who is 36 weeks pregnant. She's about to have a daughter, and it's going to be the first baby at the Mel Robbins Podcast. We're all so excited. Jessie, what's the next question?
--:-- Jessie: Yeah. So I would love to kind of pivot. What's your advice for balancing work and kids? As a businesswoman and mom of three and adult kids too, you've obviously had a heck of a career. How have you done that with three little ones and three adult ones?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Gosh, there's so much to say on this topic. I think with guilt, first it's important—and I didn't understand this—to recognize that if you need to work because you need money to pay your bills, you should not feel guilty. You should feel proud of the fact that you are doing what is necessary to be able to financially take care of this little person. That is not something to feel guilty about. That is something to recognize and acknowledge yourself because it's a sense of responsibility that goes straight to safety and the ability to take care of somebody.
--:-- If your kids are in daycare or they have a babysitter because you're working so that you can pay your bills, that is not something to be guilty about because you're taking responsibility for what is necessary in order to take care of somebody. That is a really important thing to understand.
--:-- Now, if you feel guilty because you don't want to be working, you want to be home, that is a different form of guilt. In my case, I started to feel really guilty because as I was making a living speaking and my kids were older, I would be in Kansas City giving a speech. I loved it, but I felt so guilty because I was not at the field hockey game back in Boston.
--:-- You've got to ask yourself, is this guilt just the bullshit that the world has told me that as a woman, I need to be everywhere? Because a lot of guys don't feel this way.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Because they get gaslit into believing that their only value is in providing. So if you're feeling guilty, ask yourself, is this just society telling me that I'm supposed to be somewhere or I'm supposed to be everywhere? Or is this a different kind of guilt? There are two kinds of guilt. There's the destructive guilt, and that's the kind of guilt that society puts on you. "You're not doing mothering right. You're not spending enough time with your kids. You need to be breastfeeding. You can't do this. You can't do that." That guilt is bullshit.
--:-- The second type of guilt is productive. That's the type I'm talking about. Productive guilt is actually tied to deep values. What that productive guilt was telling me, Jessie, at that moment in time, was that I valued family. I had reached my goal of paying off our bills and we had enough money to live, and that guilt was saying, "You need to stop taking so much work on and you need to be home more because you're missing out on something you value." Do you see how that's very different?
--:-- I'll give you the other end of the spectrum. When Sawyer was born, and also when Kendall was born, the same with Oakley, we couldn't afford our house unless we were both working. We didn't have family nearby. The math equation was such that at the time—this would have been 1999 and 2000 and kind of 2007—we both needed to be working. If we just wanted to keep our house, we both needed to work and we needed to tighten the belt a little bit so we could also pay for daycare. I didn't actually feel guilty about working or having my kids in daycare because I knew that the reason why I was working was tied to a core value of wanting to provide.
--:-- Jessie: Putting a roof over everyone's head.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yes. If it's tied to a value, then you're not going to feel guilty.
--:-- The final thing that I'm going to say about work and life—and I don't ever use the word "balancing" at all because you have a very full life. It's not about balancing. It's more like a Lego kit. There are all different squares everywhere. How do I create boundaries so that I can fit in the things that matter? Boundaries can look like: I work during the day, I go home at five, or I go home at three, I don't look at my phone, I don't look at my laptop. But as soon as the baby goes down for the night, I actually finish up my day for an hour. Do you see what I mean?
--:-- To the extent that you can figure out how to have boundaries where "I'm going to be present with her here, and then I'm going to work for this period of time," it's going to be a whole blend for the first six months or so until you get into a rhythm. But thinking about it that way—if I'm going to be present for work, I want to be present for work. If I'm going to be present with her, I'm going to be present for her. Thinking about those boundaries is really important.
--:-- Jessie: It's confirmation too that women can climb the ladder while still having babies and nothing has to change.
--:-- Mel Robbins: No, nothing has to change. One of the most beautiful things that you can give to a child is showing them a mom who has ambition. You weren't put on this planet, Jessie, to be a mother or a wife. You were put on this planet to be you. Being a mom, being a wife, being a studio manager, a video editor, all this stuff—those are all pieces of who you are. Losing who you are to your kids is not necessarily a service to them because who's going to teach them what it looks like to build a full life? It's you. That's exactly what you're going to do.
--:-- Jessie: Yes. So listener question is from Kelly. "Mel, how do I find time for myself? My mornings are pure chaos. My son's schedule is unpredictable and I'm constantly scrambling to get us out the door. Some days I'm so overwhelmed I cry on my way to work. I try to work out twice a week, but I want to do more and I can't figure out how. Any advice to help me move forward?"
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yes. The thing that changed my life with little kids—I don't know how old her kid is—is it's critical that after you put them to bed and you do your nightly routine with your kid. If you don't have one, look at when your kid is going to bed. They should probably be in bed by eight o'clock. No, I'm serious. There's this huge trend of keeping kids awake at night. I don't understand this. Your kids desperately need sleep for their development. And so do you.
--:-- Developing a really steady night routine—a certain time we go upstairs, we run the bath, we put on the jammies, the whole thing that just gets them in the routine—eight o'clock you're in bed. Now you have an hour where you can kind of clean things up. The most important thing is get everything ready for tomorrow morning. Pack the lunches, pack the backpack, organize your stuff for work. The things that you do at night create time and peace in the morning.
--:-- Absolutely everything that you can do the night before—from packing the lunch to packing the backpacks to packing your work stuff to gathering it all to even picking out the coat and the boots—put it all by the door so you don't have to scramble for anything. You do that at night and you probably just gained 30 minutes of calm in the morning. Once you're under the gun in the morning and your stress level goes up, isn't it interesting how you can never find anything?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Doing it at night is a lifesaver. That's one thing.
--:-- In the morning, you need to get up a half an hour earlier than you do. The reason why I say that is because if you start to develop a very consistent bedtime—so I'm sorry, we're just a family—you go to sleep, you don't have your devices, you're in bed because mom needs to be in bed by 9:30. You see how this works? If you're in bed by 9:30, that means you can get a good night's sleep and wake up a half an hour before your child typically gets up. That's when you exercise. That's when you have your time for yourself. That's when you set up your day so that you are feeling okay before the chaos.
--:-- When you're a parent, the second the children are awake, your day is no longer yours. I am not going to lie to you. The second your child wakes up, the day is no longer yours. At some point in getting your child out the door, you're going to look at your phone, which means your brain is no longer yours because now you're thinking about work or social media or the news. You are not going to get your brain or your time back for the rest of the day. It's gone. It's already over.
--:-- Thinking about protecting those early morning hours for you, and thinking about how you use the evening in your own wind-down to pack up everything and get yourself ready—that changes everything.
--:-- Jessie: If a mom is listening right now, drowning in guilt and perfectionism, what is the first thing you would tell her?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Take a deep breath. Put your hand on your heart. In fact, just breathe in with me. And just say, "I'm doing the best that I can with the resources I have at this moment in my life. I'm going to learn from this. I'm a good mom and I am going to continue to grow with my kids. This moment is not going to last forever and I'm going to learn from it. I just got to give myself some grace."
--:-- Sometimes if all you have to give is 60% and you give 60%, you gave the 100% you had to give. Recognizing there are going to be times in your life where you only have 60% to give. If you can figure out how to give all that and give yourself a little grace, you deserve the acknowledgement that you gave what you had to give.
--:-- Jessie: And Mel, what is your advice for the people listening who have adult children right now?
--:-- Mel Robbins: That you did a great job. Stop beating yourself up. There are things that we all in the rearview mirror feel like we could have done better. It is never too late to apologize for the mistakes that you've made or the things that you see from where you are now about how you've grown that you would have done differently.
--:-- I find that every time I have one of those conversations with my kids, first of all, they're very forgiving, but they so appreciate the fact that I'm willing to say, "I screwed that up and you deserved better." It's like this for both of us. Acknowledging the things that you wish you could change is a beautiful way to clear the slate and create something new.
--:-- It's never too late to improve, change, grow closer to somebody. If you've grown distant from your kids or your parents, or the resentment has built up, you can always find ways to reconnect.
--:-- The Let Them theory has actually been wildly helpful for me in learning at this point in my life how to love people as they are and stop trying to change them. When you look at your kids and you want to change them—you want them to be more motivated, get better grades, not date that person—wanting more for somebody is a beautiful thing. But when you really think that's what should happen, you're not loving them. You're judging them. Our kids know that. The same is true with your parents.
--:-- For me, the single biggest thing that's helped my relationships is the Let Them theory. I kid you not. It forced me to have to learn how to stop controlling and changing and wishing people were different, and actually do the work to see people as they are and learn how to love and accept them as they are. That doesn't come by changing other people. It comes from changing yourself and the judgments that you have about other people.
--:-- Then you go to the "Let Me" part. "Okay, if I'm going to let this person be who they are and I'm going to stop trying to change them and learn to accept them exactly as they are right now, let me figure out how I want to show up in this dynamic." If you want more connection, it's not on them, it's on you. You may have somebody that is not reaching back out. If they're not, it tells me there's probably something that's built up, some friction, something that is just in the way.
--:-- I see everything through acknowledging mistakes made, through learning to accept people instead of judging people, and really determining for yourself, "What kind of relationship do I want?" If I'm willing to really invest the time and energy in showing up differently, then that's where I have the power to change the dynamic.
--:-- I really do believe that with time, with grace, with compassion, with acceptance, you can move closer to people that you feel distanced from. You can apologize, you can forgive yourself, you can make amends, you can do better, even when you've made a lot of mistakes in the past. The time that you put into your relationship with your kids or your parents or your siblings or your friends—it just pays dividends.
--:-- All the research is very clear, and this comes from Dr. Robert Waldinger, who is the fourth director of the Harvard Study for Adult Development, which has been going on for like 86 years. You want to be happy and healthy in your life? You want to have a meaningful life? It's just all about relationships.
--:-- Whether you're thinking about your own experience as a parent, or you're thinking about your parents, or like Jessie, about to be a parent, or you are contemplating whether or not you would ever want kids—everything we're talking about is the basics of relationships with any human being. It's just that when you're a parent, you are responsible for parenting, which is keeping them safe, giving them shelter and food, teaching them the character and values that you want to instill, and then getting out of the way and guiding them and supporting them in becoming who they're meant to be.
--:-- They're not meant to be a mini you. Not at all. They are a blend and their own unique, amazing, fabulous miracle. Why would you want to shove a miracle into a little box? Why wouldn't you want to expand what's possible? The only way that you do that is to get out of the way and stop dictating what they do, but guiding what they do. And trust that they are actually something miraculous and they are capable of figuring out who they are. They need your guidance. They don't need to be told what to do or dictated to. They need guidance and support in becoming who they're meant to become.
--:-- Jessie: That's beautiful. I really want to thank you for this conversation and for helping to ground my nerves too, and my mind and my body. All of it was just giving me a confidence that motherhood can be done, can be tackled, and well.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You got no choice at this point because it's happening. She's coming really soon.
--:-- Jessie: Yes, she is. But thank you for that because I think it's just a conversation that all women can have in some regard, I hope. So I really appreciate you answering those questions.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, I appreciate you, Jessie. Good luck. I can't wait to meet her. It'll be so exciting.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So exciting. I also just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for listening to this. Thank you for sharing this with your parents, with the people that you care about, with friends your age. It's so exciting what's possible. I have screwed up so much of my life that I love knowing that even the screw-ups and mistakes that I've made, you can learn from them, you can apologize for them. That's a beautiful thing.
--:-- In case nobody else tells you this, I want to tell you that I love you. Let me unpack what love is, because I think this is very important. Love is not just reserved for families or for your kids or your parents. Love is very simple. It's just when you admire something in someone and when you have them in mind, consideration.
--:-- I admire the fact that you make the time to listen to something that could help you create a better life. I think that's so cool. In terms of consideration, I know you don't have a lot of time and you still hit play and you still spend your most precious resource together with me. I always have you in mind when I am talking to you, when we're thinking about the topics. That's why I say I love you. I admire you and I have you in mind.
--:-- There's no doubt that you've got the tools and the inspiration to create a better life. I cannot wait to hear what you think about this episode, and I can't wait to welcome you back into the very next one. The moment you hit play, I'll be waiting for you. I'll see you there.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Were you waiting for the update on Jessie? I get it. I could not wait to hear how everything went. Spoiler alert, it all went really well. Here's Jessie with an update taped live from her new baby's nursery.
--:-- Jessie: Hi, Mel. It's Jessie. I am coming to you five weeks postpartum here. I'm sitting in our little girl's nursery, which is wild to say considering I feel like we just had that conversation in your studio about motherhood.
--:-- I sure enough did not make it to 40 weeks. Made it to 37 and had an incredible, perfect labor and delivery. I couldn't have asked for a better experience with that. We did get induced because of the high blood pressure. Little girl was healthy. She was born eight days after we recorded that.
--:-- I just wish I could go back and hug myself and tell her that she's about to have—here come the postpartum emotions—the most perfect labor and delivery, and the most incredible hospital team there with us as well.
--:-- You mentioned to trust your daughter. She chose you. As I mentioned, it was not an easy path to get to her. There was a reason that it was her. It took me a while to realize this reason, but the week she was born was the one year anniversary of our first miscarriage. A year and a day after that, we went and got induced for this little girl. A complete full circle moment that is so much bigger than me. It was always supposed to be her. It was always supposed to be this time. It was always supposed to be three weeks early to kind of put a bow on that path that we went through to get to her. It always gives me goosebumps when I think about that.
--:-- I am so grateful for that conversation. It is eye-opening to see how much strength I have gained in these last five weeks going into this new role as a mom and not knowing what I'm doing. I'm running off of two hours of sleep and changing a million dirty diapers and getting all the newborn snuggles, and I'm doing it. It's just the most incredible role that I don't want to ever be afraid of.
--:-- If I'm not afraid, I can give her my best self and be a guide to her. Gosh, motherhood is just the best. It's the best thing ever. I didn't know it till I got here. I'm so grateful I got here.
--:-- On that note, I'm going to go wipe up these tears again and shout out to all of the moms out there and the women who have gone through this and have raised little humans. Kudos to all of you women out there. I will see you very soon when I bring this little one around to the office and get to introduce her as the first little company baby. Thanks, Mel.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay, we ready? All right, let's get a little checky check. Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Okay, here we go.
--:-- Mel Robbins: It looks cute when you're standing up. When you sit down, I look like I have a beer keg for a stomach and big balls hanging off my check the way it's like looking at my things.
--:-- Jessie: Okay, let's pull this out. There you go. I look more pregnant than you do.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You might be.
--:-- Jessie: No, it's all dry down there. That's not happening.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Not as in dry on the outside, meaning it's dried up the baby making factory on the inside. So good.
--:-- Jessie: Wow. The energy is here.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay. Okay. Okay. This is how we do it. So good. You guys killed it. You guys killed that. Incredible.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oh, and one more thing. No, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.
--:-- This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. This podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
--:-- Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.
