--:-- Noel King: The U.S. entered into the weekend bracing for conflict. President Trump was celebrating his birthday with a military parade that had people on edge.
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--:-- Noel King: No King's protests were scheduled in hundreds of cities had people on edge. L.A., unresolved with Marines still on the ground, had people on edge.
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--:-- Noel King: The shocker was so much of what was feared didn't come to pass, except in Minnesota. A moment in this country where we watched violence erupt.
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--:-- Noel King: This cannot be the norm. It cannot be the way that we deal with our political differences.
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--:-- Noel King: A gunman dressed as a police officer shot four people, killing two of them, in what the governor called a targeted assassination of Minnesota state lawmakers.
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--:-- Noel King: Vance Bolter was caught last night.
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--:-- Noel King: These were 72 hours that had Americans asking, what the hell is going on? And we're going to do our best to answer that on Today Explained.
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--:-- Noel King: Support for Today Explained comes from Adio. Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management platform that Adio says is built for the next era of companies.
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--:-- Noel King: You can go to adio.com slash todayexplained to get 15% off your first year.
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--:-- Noel King: That's A-T-T-I-O dot com slash todayexplained.
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--:-- Noel King: Support for this show comes from strawberry.me.
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--:-- Noel King: It's Today Explained.
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--:-- Noel King: I'm Noelle King.
--:-- John Lewis: John Lewis is a research fellow at the Program on Extremism at George Washington University.
--:-- John Lewis: John focuses on Americans who commit violence in the name of ideology.
--:-- Noel King: John, what happened in Minnesota is still developing, but Governor Tim Walz called it an assassination.
--:-- John Lewis: Would you say we know enough at this point to call what happened there political violence?
--:-- John Lewis: It certainly fits the description of the events, yes.
--:-- John Lewis: Again, based on the reporting, based on the official comments so far from law enforcement, from Governor Walz.
--:-- John Lewis: This certainly appears to have been a targeted act, an individual who was motivated by, again, some ideology, some grievance, whether it's personal or political, who chose these individuals in particular to target.
--:-- John Lewis: Which I think certainly speaks to the potential deeper motivations here.
--:-- John Lewis: There's been what feels like a lot of this lately.
--:-- John Lewis: We have the killings of the two Israeli embassy workers in Washington, D.C.
--:-- John Lewis: We have the attack on the hostage demonstration in Boulder, Colorado.
--:-- John Lewis: We have Governor Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, his home being set on fire.
--:-- John Lewis: So it feels like political violence is on the rise.
--:-- John Lewis: What do the numbers say, though?
--:-- John Lewis: The numbers absolutely support that.
--:-- John Lewis: When we look at the data, we've seen a marked increase in recent years, not only in actual successful plots and attacks, but in the number of arrests and investigations the FBI are involved in when it comes to threats to public officials.
--:-- John Lewis: I think when we look at the broader societal effects of social media, of COVID, of the normalization of this violent rhetoric into our political mainstream.
--:-- John Lewis: I think that's really a caustic, perfect storm there to really, again, just inspire your average Americans who are lost, are confused, are dissatisfied, who are looking for answers.
--:-- John Lewis: And I think in a lot of cases, this rhetoric, this very aggressive, very us versus them kind of rhetoric can really be the trigger for a lot of people who are angry, who are lost, who are confused.
--:-- Noel King: How do we know? Other than headlines, how do we know that violence is increasing?
--:-- John Lewis: You're an analyst. How do we measure this?
--:-- John Lewis: Yeah, so there's some excellent research that's being done in this space.
--:-- John Lewis: You can look at work that's being done by this organization called Ensight over at the University of Omaha.
--:-- John Lewis: It's a DHS-funded center of excellence.
--:-- John Lewis: They've been studying the drastic spike in cases, in federal cases, brought charging people who have been threatening public officials, whether it's calling their office, whether it's stalking, harassing, doxing, swatting, things like that.
--:-- John Lewis: And then look, you look at the anecdotal cases that we're talking about here.
--:-- John Lewis: It's very clear that in recent years we have seen the normalization of this violence, and that is leading these lone actors.
--:-- John Lewis: And again, barely even ideological in a lot of these cases.
--:-- John Lewis: We look at the Trump assassination attempt.
--:-- John Lewis: You look at some of these other cases where the individual clearly barely has a coherent grasp on the ideology and is really just looking for justification.
--:-- John Lewis: I think that when you really peel that back, you see how prevalent these cases are becoming.
--:-- John Lewis: Who is doing the violence? Is there a pattern to who's committing these acts?
--:-- John Lewis: I would say, by and large, the offline violence here is coming from the far right.
--:-- John Lewis: It's obviously, it's always important to say that conspiracy theories don't fit neatly into the political spectrum.
--:-- John Lewis: But when we look at the individuals who are committing this violence, it certainly fits a far right mobilization.
--:-- John Lewis: There are, of course, left-wing, leftist attacks.
--:-- John Lewis: There are lone actor violence on both sides here.
--:-- John Lewis: But predominantly, the dead bodies here, when they stack up, it's not really a close comparison.
--:-- Noel King: What should we make of that?
--:-- John Lewis: I think, look, it's—this is the years-long consequence of this campaign to really convince Americans that anyone who is not part of your tribe your specific in is somehow un is somehow less than you and is somehow a worthy target for political violence
--:-- John Lewis: And I think that should be extraordinarily concerning for average Americans everywhere.
--:-- John Lewis: I think that many Americans feel, whether they like President Trump or not, that something in the rhetoric began to change when he was elected the first time.
--:-- John Lewis: Is that just a feeling or is that grounded in reality?
--:-- John Lewis: No, it's absolutely grounded in reality.
--:-- John Lewis: I think when you look at the messaging that comes out from President Trump's office, it certainly aligns with the most incendiary, most aggressive rhetoric that we see coming out of the right-wing media ecosystem.
--:-- John Lewis: And look, this trickles down, right?
--:-- John Lewis: When you have the president of the United States using language about radical left, democratic politicians, calling migrants people who are poisoning the blood of this country, that sends a powerful message.
--:-- John Lewis: And it's something that average Americans will pick up and engage with.
--:-- Noel King: Does the atmosphere in which we're living now, does it contribute to the reality of political violence? Like, everybody is on edge.
--:-- John Lewis: I was at the Army's birthday parade this weekend, and nothing happened.
--:-- John Lewis: I mean, it was actually really rather dull, but the sense was that something could pop off at any time, in part because law enforcement had been, you know, urging people to be cautious, in part because the president had said, if you protest, you're going to be met with violence.
--:-- John Lewis: Do those kinds of warnings translate into reality?
--:-- John Lewis: These vibes don't happen in a vacuum, right?
--:-- John Lewis: We feel less safe because of the spike in domestic terrorism.
--:-- John Lewis: We feel less safe because of massive counter protests, violence at protests, a general fear that this inherently random type of violence can happen to us.
--:-- John Lewis: Again, it's a very normal, very human reaction.
--:-- Noel King: President Trump is fairly unrestrained in the way he talks about protesters, immigrants, universities, even the military.
--:-- John Lewis: How should we think about the message coming from the top and what it may lead to?
--:-- John Lewis: Well, yeah, look, I mean, I think very simply here, when language used by President Trump, by Stephen Miller, by DHS employees, when that mirrors the exact language used by white supremacist mass shooters in their manifestos, that bodes poorly, right?
--:-- John Lewis: And again, when that mainstream message is being amplified by every neo-Nazi out there, again, because it mirrors the language used by their peers, that just floods the zone with the worst, most abhorrent, most dehumanizing content you can see.
--:-- John Lewis: And again, you really can't overstate the role of these social media echo chambers.
--:-- John Lewis: I mean, when it's just day after day after day of these conspiracies from the top getting amplified from the bottom, conspiracies from the bottom amplified by the top, you just get this bidirectional flow of – I mean, it's brain rot really is what it comes down to.
--:-- Noel King: Is this unprecedented or has the U.S. been here before?
--:-- John Lewis: So look, we've certainly seen spikes in political violence.
--:-- John Lewis: It's nothing new.
--:-- John Lewis: We look at the weather underground.
--:-- John Lewis: We look at other spikes in domestic extremist activity.
--:-- John Lewis: I think what makes today unique in some cases is the role of social media, right?
--:-- John Lewis: We are more interconnected than ever.
--:-- John Lewis: As humans, that's great.
--:-- John Lewis: For research, that's great.
--:-- John Lewis: But that also facilitates a lot of our worst qualities as people.
--:-- John Lewis: And I think it allows, in many instances, these conspiracies, these, again, very racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, anti-Semitic, hateful narratives, grievances to spread, to fester and to just become just stuck in these social media echo chambers.
--:-- Noel King: What do we do about this, John?
--:-- John Lewis: This has to start with our elected officials, right?
--:-- John Lewis: It's very easy to talk about this and to kind of provide the top-level analysis that terrorism is bad, political violence is bad.
--:-- John Lewis: But we know that, and we've been having these conversations for – again, I mean we're, what, nine years now?
--:-- John Lewis: I mean, it's going to be the same answers, which is that it has to come from politicians, it has to come from our elected officials on both sides, right, left, top, bottom, to, again, quite simply, tamp down on political violence.
--:-- John Lewis: But instead what we see day after day after day is this really caustic fanning of the flames predominantly from the right around every single culture war issue and so I think until we're able to really reckon with that to call it what it is and to start beginning to address it we're going to keep having these conversations unfortunately.
--:-- Noel King: John Lewis of the Program on Extremism at George Washington University.
--:-- Noel King: Coming up, we went to the parade so you didn't have to.
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--:-- Noel King: Estás escuchando Hoy Explicado.
--:-- Noel King: You are listening to Today Explained.
--:-- Noel King: We're back.
--:-- Noel King: I'm Noel King.
--:-- Noel King: You might have seen the video circulating from this weekend of a very bored-looking President Trump grimacing through the military parade celebrating the 250th birthday of the U.S. Army.
--:-- Noel King: It was also Trump's birthday.
--:-- Meredith Lair: I was at the parade and Trump was not wrong.
--:-- Meredith Lair: Attendance was sparse at best.
--:-- Meredith Lair: It was a thousand degrees and it was pretty boring.
--:-- Meredith Lair: Chris's wife made him come.
--:-- Meredith Lair: Well, my wife's from China.
--:-- Meredith Lair: And so they have parades like that there, but she's never seen one here before.
--:-- Meredith Lair: So she wanted to see a military parade here.
--:-- Meredith Lair: Franco from Argentina was like, I'm in D.C. Why not?
--:-- Meredith Lair: I don't get a chance to see a military parade every day.
--:-- Meredith Lair: Tim was protesting.
--:-- Meredith Lair: I am 60 years old.
--:-- Meredith Lair: I've never protested anything in my life.
--:-- Meredith Lair: And when I saw the military being turned against our own citizens, I had already planned to come down here because I thought a military parade, especially on a sitting president's birthday, was not American.
--:-- Meredith Lair: But no one seemed to really care about his protest.
--:-- Meredith Lair: At least Professor Meredith Lehrer was excited to be there.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: Meredith is at George Mason University where she studies American culture and the military.
--:-- Noel King: What do you think this event tells us about how President Trump sees the military?
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: I think he sees the military as lethal.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: I think he sees it as an extension of himself.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: He has said that this is his military.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think that the Army's choice to emphasize technology is probably something that the White House and the Army came to collectively, that they really wanted to showcase hardware and showcase power.
--:-- Noel King: You said President Trump has said the military is my military.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: The American president is the commander in chief.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: What about the way President Trump talks about the military is different from a historian's perspective?
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: I don't think that any other president has ever said anything like that.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: I think that other presidents have been more mindful of custom.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: There's a lot of conversation around President Trump that he breaks norms, that he has violated norms.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think that his presidencies have forced Americans to come to terms with the fact that a lot of how the White House and the presidency operates are not actually enshrined in the Constitution.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: They're enshrined in custom.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And so he is in that, in stating that this is his military, and in giving a very politicized speech at which MAGA merchandise was for sale at Fort Bragg.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: In Los Angeles, the governor of California and the mayor of Los Angeles. They're incompetent and they paid troublemakers, agitators and insurrectionists.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: They're engaged in this willful attempt to nullify federal law and aid the occupation of the city by criminal invaders.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: He's, you know, violating norms there about keeping the U.S. Armed Forces apolitical.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think it's fair to remember that the U.S. Armed Forces are not a monolith, that there are a lot of progressives who have joined the military because they want to serve or because it was a path out of poverty.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: I think it's worth remembering that a lot of the rank and file in the U.S. Armed Forces are not native born.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: They are immigrants or they are the children of immigrants.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I am sure that the American soldiery has complicated perspectives on this event and on President Trump's comments about the military.
--:-- Noel King: As somebody who studies this stuff, what message does it impart that today is also President Trump's birthday?
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: I don't think that this event can be separated from President Trump because no president since President George Herbert Walker Bush has elected to have a parade of this kind.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And, you know, we can't so we can't divorce it from President Trump because it's something that he expressly stated he wanted during his first term.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And you know by the same token I don't think we can divorce it from the larger conversation about the use of the U military on American soil
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So this for good or bad this event will I think always be associated with these new developments in civil military relations where the military is operating potentially against U.S. citizens.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: It's absolutely operating on U.S. soil in Los Angeles right now.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And so the Army is kind of trying to thread a needle here of focusing on its history, focusing on the equipment and its lethality, and trying to remain nonpartisan.
--:-- Noel King: We've talked to a bunch of people out here at the parade today.
--:-- Noel King: We had one woman whose son is in the Army.
--:-- Noel King: She actually came out to see him today.
--:-- Noel King: All of this that's going on, and we're trying to find him, and I can't find him, and I just want to see my baby.
--:-- Noel King: She said, I don't think Americans understand enough about service.
--:-- Noel King: I don't think we treat the military well.
--:-- Noel King: And then we talked to another man who is protesting today who said, I personally think that we celebrate the military too much in this country.
--:-- Noel King: There is a divide in this country between people who, I think it's sometimes even called the civilian military divide, between people who serve or know people who serve or have people in the family who served and people who just haven't and maybe think, why is this such a big deal?
--:-- Noel King: Has this always been the case?
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: No, we're in an interesting moment where the U.S. Armed Forces is the most lethal, but it's also very small relative to what it was, say, in World War II.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And the role that veterans play in American society is really different now than it was at mid-century.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: It's very unusual to know people in the military because less than 1% of Americans will serve in the military.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And whereas if you compare that to the post-World War II era, it was very unusual for men not to have served in the military.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So everybody's dad and uncle and brother was off fighting overseas or was in the service somewhere here in this country.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So Vietnam is sort of in the middle where of the 27 million Americans who could have served in the Vietnam era, only two and a half million of them actually did go to Vietnam.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So, you know, So it's a rare thing now to have been a veteran.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And it is not the normal thing or the normative thing for Americans to know people in the military.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think that is profoundly problematic because I think it has sowed mistrust where people who maybe object to aspects of U.S. foreign policy tend to paint people, individuals in the military with that same brush or make assumptions about their political opinions.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And by the same token, I think people in the military who enjoy such a robust set of social welfare benefits don't really understand the fear and the terror that civilians have at not having health insurance and confronting a major health crisis.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So I think that both groups have a lot to learn from each other.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think there is probably room for more compassion.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think to the stories that you shared, I think in the end, they're kind of both right.
--:-- Noel King: My dad's expression.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: He's 87 years old and a two-time Vietnam veteran and has, you know, served 22 years in the army.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And when people thank him for his service, he talks about what a great life he has as a result of that.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And he says, I should be thanking you.
--:-- Noel King: Anytime you have an event like this, it is a case of America telling a story of itself about itself.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So I could speak for my students.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: My students, you know, they often will express in their essays and so forth, like this true faith that we are marching towards progress, that everything in the United States will get better and better and better.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And I think that the parade is in a way a sort of metaphor for that, where we can see, you know, with the, there's going to be the soldiers in colonial uniforms and, you know, advancing in time all the way to the 21st century.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: So there's a progression there in the style of clothing and in the technology and the ability to move troops and supplies from here to there.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And so the parade gives a feeling of this inexorable march towards progress.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: But the reality of American history is that it will, things will advance forward and things will advance back.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: The Army has a really rich history, and the Army can claim in celebrating its history the liberation of Europe alongside American allies.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: It can claim, you know, for individuals, a commitment to duty and faithful service.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: And as an Army brat and a proud daughter of a Vietnam veteran, I embrace the good parts of that history.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: But as a historian, I also have to recognize very flawed parts of the Army's story.
--:-- Meredith Lehrer: But those stories will not be represented here.
--:-- Noel King: The most exciting part of the parade was leaving the parade on Saturday.
--:-- Noel King: You had to exit directly into a group of protesters and you thought, surely this is going to get ugly.
--:-- Noel King: And then it didn't.
--:-- Noel King: There were a couple shouting matches that quickly wilted.
--:-- Noel King: It did seem possible that Minnesota and how easily these things can spin out was on everyone's mind.
--:-- Lee Babarowska: I was there to protest.
--:-- Lee Babarowska: But when I asked him about the killings in his home state, Lee sounded an awful lot like the former cop that he is.
--:-- Lee Babarowska: They'll catch him. I guarantee they'll catch him.
--:-- Lee Babarowska: There's no way they're not going to catch him.
--:-- Noel King: Victoria Chamberlain was there.
--:-- Noel King: She produced today's show.
--:-- Noel King: Miranda Kennedy edited with help from Jolie Myers.
--:-- Noel King: We were fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Patrick Boyd and Matthew Billy.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm Noelle King.
--:-- Noel King: It's Today Explained.