--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram, and I'm here with Andrew Desiderio, a senior reporter at Punchbowl News.
--:-- Andrew Desiderio: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're going to talk about TikTok. The House of Representatives just passed a bill that could ban the app in the United States. Andrew, can you tell us a little bit about this bill?
--:-- Andrew Desiderio: Sure. So, the bill that passed the House is not an attempt to ban TikTok outright. It's actually an attempt to make TikTok better. The bill gives TikTok's parent company, ByteDance, 180 days to sell the app to a U.S. company. If they don't, then the app is banned in the United States.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And this bill got a lot of support from both parties in the House. It passed with 352 votes.
--:-- Andrew Desiderio: Yeah, it's a pretty big blowout. And the reason it passed so easily is that there's been a lot of classified briefings on Capitol Hill about the threat that TikTok poses to national security.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And the concern is that ByteDance, as a Chinese company, could be forced to share user data with the Chinese government.
--:-- Andrew Desiderio: Exactly. And the more that the American intelligence community has learned about TikTok and its connections to ByteDance, the more worried they've become about its potential to be used as an espionage tool.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, I want to play a clip from a conversation I had with a listener last weekend. They were talking about how they got a message on TikTok asking them to call their representative about the TikTok ban.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's a pretty interesting example of how TikTok could be used to mobilize users. Andrew, can you tell us more about what's at stake here?
--:-- Andrew Desiderio: Yeah, sure. So, the risk is that TikTok could be used as a tool for propaganda or even espionage. And that's what makes this bill so important. It's not just about banning TikTok, it's about making sure that the app is safe for users.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, I want to talk to Kate Ruane, the director of the Free Expression Project at the Center for Democracy and Technology. Kate, thanks for joining us.
--:-- Kate Ruane: Thanks for having me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Kate, can you tell us why you're opposed to this bill?
--:-- Kate Ruane: I am opposed to this bill because it would harm all of TikTok's users in the United States. It would destroy small businesses and the American dream that we believe in.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's a pretty strong statement. Can you explain why you think this bill would have such a negative impact?
--:-- Kate Ruane: Yes. This bill would essentially be a wholesale ban on TikTok, and that would be a huge blow to free expression in the United States. We're one of the leading countries advocating for freedom online, and this bill would undermine that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, I want to ask you about the concerns that the government has raised about TikTok's ownership structure and its potential to share user data with the Chinese government.
--:-- Kate Ruane: There's no existing public evidence that we're experiencing a serious and immediate harm to national security as a result of TikTok's ownership structure and its operation within the United States.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's a pretty strong statement. Can you explain why you think the government's concerns are unfounded?
--:-- Kate Ruane: Yes. TikTok does collect Americans' data, just like every other social media company. And there's no evidence that TikTok has ever provided that data to the Chinese government.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, I want to talk to Representative Jan Schakowsky, who co-sponsored the American Data Privacy and Protection Act. Representative Schakowsky, thanks for joining us.
--:-- Jan Schakowsky: Thanks for having me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Representative Schakowsky, can you tell us why you think this bill is necessary?
--:-- Jan Schakowsky: We need to act right now to protect ourselves from China. This bill is a narrow measure that targets our adversaries, and it's a step in the right direction.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, I want to ask you about the concerns that Kate Ruane raised about the bill's potential impact on free expression.
--:-- Jan Schakowsky: I understand those concerns, but this bill is a necessary measure to protect our national security.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, I want to wrap up this episode with a few final thoughts. Andrew, can you tell us what's next for this bill?
--:-- Andrew Desiderio: The bill will now move to the Senate, where it will face a tougher road. But with 352 votes in the House, it's clear that there's a lot of support for this bill.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Kate, can you tell us why you think this bill is a bad idea?
--:-- Kate Ruane: I think this bill is a bad idea because it would harm free expression in the United States and undermine our values as a country.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks to Andrew and Kate for joining us on this episode of Today Explained. If you want to learn more about this story, you can check out our website at vox.com/todayexplained.
