--:-- [Sound of a news broadcast]
--:-- Host: A manhunt is underway for Charlie Kirk's killer. Law enforcement officials spoke in Utah this morning and gave the latest information.
--:-- [Sound of a news broadcast continues]
--:-- Host: We were able to make a few breakthroughs. We were able to track the movements of the shooter. Starting at 11:52 a.m., the subject arrived on campus, shortly away from campus. We have tracked his movements onto the campus, through the stairwells, up to the roof, across the roof to a shooting location.
--:-- Host: Authorities say the shooter jumped off the building and fled. They also say they recovered the weapon used by the shooter. It's a high-powered bolt-action rifle. That rifle was recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled.
--:-- Host: And they released what they say is a picture of a person of interest in the shooting.
--:-- Host: Coming up on Today Explained from Vox, the life and legacy of Charlie Kirk. Support for this show comes from Strawberry.me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown? Or never wanted in the first place?
--:-- Host: Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from strawberry.me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer.
--:-- Host: This is Today Explained. I'm Andrew Prokop, senior correspondent, Vox.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Tell us what happened in Utah yesterday, Andrew.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Well, we saw probably the most prominent murder of a nationally known political figure in quite some time in the United States of America when Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist, very influential, very popular commentator on the right, was speaking at a college event in Utah and was shot and killed.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Charlie Kirk is kind of, his focus has been on young conservative mobilization, persuasion, activism, and he's always basically going, been going on college campuses and holding events, trying to debate people, trying to persuade people to his point of view.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: So this is just, you know, one in a very, very long list of events like this that he has done on college campuses across the country.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: What kind of reaction did you see after Charlie Kirk was killed in Utah?
--:-- Andrew Prokop: I think the mainstream reaction was shock and horror. Again, we've seen really nothing like this that has actually succeeded in killing a major political figure in quite some time.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: There have been many attempts. There have been others wounded, a kind of what people argue is a rising trend of political violence that you can trace back 10, 15 years or so.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But this was a big, really shocking turn of events. Just the video footage was extremely graphic and went viral on social media, spread everywhere.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: I think the reaction from the overwhelming majority of people involved in politics was to condemn this, to say it was terrible. It cannot be a question of political agreement or alignment that allows us to mourn. It must be the shared notion of humanity that binds us all.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: This is horrific. This is awful. And the assassination of Charlie Kirk risks an uncorking of political chaos.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: This is not who we are. It violates the core principles of our country, our Judeo-Christian heritage, our civil society, our American way of life.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: And it must stop.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Then, of course, there were other reactions on the right. They are at war with us. Whether we want to accept it or not, they are at war with us.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: What are we going to do about it?
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Democrats own what happened today.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: You had figures like Christopher Rufo and other conservative activists, including to an extent the president, who before any killer had been identified, decided to blame the radical left and call for a crackdown on radical what they call radical left groups and organizers of some kind.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: remains to be seen what that will look like. We'll find out.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Then on the left, I think, you know, there was this tension between, again, most of the prominent people, most, almost every prominent Democrat or left-leaning commentator that I'm aware of said, This is terrible. Condemn this.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But there is a strain of, you know, joking about this or cheering this on. Again, not typically from prominent people, but the closer you get to the sort of, you know, the populist influencer space or or just random people posting on social media, the more common it is.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: So the right is pointing to all of those comments and saying, oh, see, the left wants to murder us all and we need to do something about it.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: The calls online for some sort of crackdown, you're right, they were not often specific. But there was a sense of you know the left has caused this and something must be done about the left.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: It not language that we see every day.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: You know that was my read on it
--:-- Andrew Prokop: This was a really freighted moment
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Were you surprised at how quickly this became polarizing?
--:-- Andrew Prokop: No, not at all.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: I think from the very first news report, I had the sense that it was going to be very, very bad.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Charlie Kirk is a very – like he is very close to the Trump family. He is a close friend of Donald Trump Jr. specifically.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But he's also very well known among conservative media figures. He helped staff this administration. Like everyone knows him in right-wing circles personally.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: And then millions more people know him parasocially through his podcasts, through his media appearances, and feel like they know him personally.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: He has helped this nation advance. He's helped this nation ask questions to each other. And he's helped us get along and do it nonviolently.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: And unfortunately, somebody decided to do something very terrible.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: A guy who always stood up for his beliefs and never backed down.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: I mean, he was always so sweet. He had a loving family, his wife Erica and his two kids who are both under three years old and he left them.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: He's going to be remembered forever for always fighting for his beliefs and always fought.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: I hope that they remember him as not only an influencer, but as somebody who actually deeply cared about what our country was going towards.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: So on the right, they have experienced this as a traumatic loss of someone they knew and cared for. And are reacting with great anger and emotion about it.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But I think we've been seeing our society becoming steadily more polarized between these left and right camps for years now.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: And history shows us that the endpoint of such polarization, such us versus them thinking, thinking that half the country is the enemy, the natural endpoint of it is repression or violence.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: And so there is now this kind of call. And again, we'll see whether it amounts to anything, but it is definitely something that more people on the right are feeling comfortable saying.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: They're saying the left wants to murder us, and so we need to crack down on them and we'll see how far it goes.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But, you know, history is replete with examples of situations like this going to a very bad place.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: What has President Trump said?
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Well, Trump released a video last night of him speaking in the Oval Office in which he adopted this viewpoint that the radical left was to blame and that he was going to do something about it.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: He said, For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today. And it must stop right now.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: He said that his administration would find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support it, as well as those who go after our judges, law enforcement officials, and everyone else who brings order to our country.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: First of all, this is a very one-sided narrative of political violence, which has taken place from perpetrators on the left and on the right in recent years.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: It was just in recent months that a state senator in Minnesota and her husband were murdered by a right-wing activist.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: Another state senator in Minnesota was shot in that same incident.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But the thing about it is that these events generally have been lone wolves or people who have perhaps been radicalized by rhetoric they've seen online, but they aren't part of any formal organization or taking any instructions.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: And we don't know anything about Charlie Kirk's killer yet.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But, you know, if past cases like this are any indication, then this probably is going to be another sort of lone wolf killer who's not part of an organized group.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: We'll see. But if that is the case, it is a jump to make the leap from, OK, people have been criticizing us in harsh terms. They've been saying mean things about us, and that's why people are trying to kill us.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: So what are you going to do? Are you going to prevent them from criticizing you? Is anyone who calls a right-winger, who says they're like a Nazi, is now going to be in trouble for potentially inciting terrorism?
--:-- Andrew Prokop: I think there's some pretty big First Amendment barriers to something like that happening.
--:-- Andrew Prokop: But again, we're in the very early stages of this, so we'll see.
--:-- [Sound of a commercial break]
--:-- Host: That was Vox's Andrew Prokop. Coming up, how Charlie Kirk became Charlie Kirk.
--:-- Host: This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID, and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info.
--:-- Host: And if any of them accidentally expose it you could be at risk for identity theft LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second If you become a victim they fix it guaranteed or your money back Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash podcast.
--:-- Host: Today Explained is back with Kyle Spencer. Kyle is a journalist and the author of the book Raising Them Right, the untold story of America's ultra-conservative youth movement. and its plot for power.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Charlie Kirk was one of the young people she profiled in that book, and in writing it, she got to know him.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Charlie grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. He attended a public high school. It was going from a mostly white school to a mostly black and brown school.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He was in a school that was very supportive of Obama. His classmates were generally very liberal.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He was even early on a conservative. He had issues with what was being taught early on in his classes, believed that in history and economics classes, he was being taught from textbooks that were overly supportive of liberal policies and that students were not getting enough information on conservative policies.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: A lot of kids are feeling the effects of what we like to call, you know, with the Washington economy, with a lot of debt plummeting small business, with higher regulation and high taxes.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: We're just trying to reinstitute the founding principles, free market fiscal responsibility.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He slowly began to create a following by starting a small organization of his high school students and of students from other high schools around him, a place that they could come to if they had conservative ideas and were feeling kind of left out.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: That was the beginning of Turning Point USA, which he officially launched after he graduated from high school.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: I mean, we're starting chapters nationwide with Turning Point USA. And on our website, turningpointusa.net, you'll see the unbelievable positive support we're having from my generation.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Using these memes, we're able to engage them in such a unique and exciting way.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And at the time, the Tea Party movement was coming alive and he was going all over the state and neighboring states to talk to Tea Party folks and to raise money.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: So first he made allies and then he began very quickly to understand what he needed to do was raise money.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And he proved to be very, very gifted and skilled at finding both people who supported his cause and also people who wanted to financially donate.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Tell me about Turning Point USA and how much of a following it grows to have.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Charlie Crick was always a political junkie, and he was always conservative.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: But what he cared about originally were economics. He cared about what he thought of as a bloated budget deficit, of a government which was spending too much money, of taxes that were too high.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: of a China that he felt was overwhelming the economic markets around the world and bullying the United States.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: The great industrial towns of the American Midwest that we decided to close, and then we sent all of the capital overseas to China so that they could industrialize.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: So then we become a vassal state at their own beckoning, that we are subservient to the Chinese Communist Party.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And he became very involved in 2016 in Trump's election and also in the Republican Party at the time.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And that's when he evolved his views into a lot more of the kind of culture war issues that we knew him for.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Issues around diversity and equity programs. DEI is the forceful implementation of racial standarding practices and racial quotas.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: DEI is basically saying we are going to build a college and organization based on hyperracialization, not on the pursuit of excellence.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Issues around reproductive rights. Birth control like really screws up female brains, by the way.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Every single one of you need to make sure that your loved ones are not on birth control.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: It increases depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, and it creates very angry and bitter young ladies and young women.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Second Amendment rights. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: That is a prudent deal. It is rational.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And how important was he to Trump's success? Like, what role did he play in getting Trump elected?
--:-- Kyle Spencer: What Charlie really brought originally to President Trump was an ability to communicate very effectively, energetically, passionately and charismatically with young people who Charlie and Trump and other conservatives really wanted to bring into a movement that was seen before Trump and before Charlie as very stodgy and old school.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Donald Trump is on a rescue mission to revive your birthright. One, your grandparents and those before them gave everything to hand down to you.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And listen carefully, everybody. This is why young men are the most conservative that they have been in 50 years.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: So he branded the GOP and MAGA to young audiences. That was originally his gift to Trump.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: To all the Gen Zers watching this convention on TikTok right now, I have a message just for you.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: You don't have to stay poor. You don't have to accept being worse off than your parents.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: You don't have to feel aimless and unhappy. You don't have to support leaders who lied to you and took advantage of you for your vote.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Eventually, Charlie was able to show that he was an excellent strategist, that he could think about ways to bring in older audiences, more diverse audiences.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: A lot of the diversity that we're seeing and reading about that the Republican Party has developed inside his follower base, a lot of that was imagined by Charlie Kirk in 2012, early, early on.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He didn't have a formal role in the White House, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't very powerful
--:-- Kyle Spencer: I remember a couple months ago when the Epstein files were kind of tearing at President Trump and at the MAGA base he was the guy who came out and he calmed things down by saying I done talking about the Epstein files
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And many people seem to say OK if Charlie done we done too
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Yeah, I mean, Charlie has millions of millions of followers who pay attention to him and what he says.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: On the one hand, Charlie had very radical views, a lot of views that were very far from the moderate positions that are held in this country.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: But the way in which he discussed those issues and presented them to his public were very folksy, no-nonsense, relatable, conversational.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Strong men built the West and won the wars and built the building that we're in right now.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And without strong men, then you all of a sudden see civilization unfold upon itself, and we're seeing that happen in real time.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: So when Charlie would say things, people would listen to him because he often made a lot of sense to them.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He was controversial. A lot of the views he held were views that people found really challenging and dangerous.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: But he also was able to convey those views to other people in ways that made them say, hey, I think this guy really knows what he's talking about. I trust him.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And what was interesting was that as his views became more and more conservative, became more opposed to LGBTQ rights.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: I was born as a man and now I'm a woman. Okay, no, but you don't become a woman just because you dress like a woman.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: So let me ask you a question. If I wear a disguise or a costume, do I become that thing?
--:-- Kyle Spencer: For example, if I dress with a sombrero and start talking to the Mexican accent, do I then become that culture?
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He became more opposed to diversity programs.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He became more convinced that white men were really the victims of racism in our country.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: They're coming out and they're saying, I'm only here because of affirmative action.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Yeah, we know you do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: You had to go steal a white person's slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: He became more and more invested in traditional marriage, in a role for women inside marriages that was very 1950s-esque.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You're not in charge.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: The more he moved to the right on these issues, the more he became interested in a kind of biblical leading of our country, a merging of church and state.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: The more that he held more conservative views, he actually grew his following with more moderate audiences.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And that was really his genius, is that he got young people at a time when they have increasingly turned to podcasters and to social media influencers for friendships.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Charlie became their good friend.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: So I'm not really asking much of a question, but I'm looking for advice.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: I want to run for Congress in a few years when I become of age.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And I'm just wondering if you have any pointers or direction you can help guide me.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: You should run. We need more young people to run.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: We have Turning Point Action, which is not represented here tonight, which is our political arm that would love to help you and train you.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And now what you'll see is that young people that were supporters, knew Charlie, were inside Turning Point USA, worked for him. They are absolutely devastated because he had a kind of cult following.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: People really, really adored him and looked up to him. As much as he was feared and disliked outside of his movement, he was just absolutely adored inside, and they remained very loyal to him.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: How do you think Charlie Kirk will be remembered?
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Charlie Kirk has a stamp on the modern Republican Party that is really extraordinary.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: It is, for many of his followers, a terrible, terrible tragedy that he has passed.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: However, they can find solace in knowing that Charlie Kirk's beliefs, his understanding of how the GOP ought to motivate around the country and how it ought to acquire followers, those ideas, those tactics, those strategies, they are embedded in the party now.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And that's not going away.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: You've seen that there is a tremendous amount of politicized rage and fear right now.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: What do you think we should be prepared for?
--:-- Kyle Spencer: I think right now you're seeing two sides. You're seeing one part of the country trying to tone down the rhetoric.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: This was a horrifying event. And we're going to see a big, big push, as you're seeing right now, to tone down the rhetoric, to tone down the violence, and to understand what it means to live in a civil society with rules of law.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: You have another side that is very enraged, very angry, kind of looking for a fight.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: Unfortunately, this sad, sad turn of events is going to be one of the events that ignites more rage.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And we're seeing already online with some of those folks already calls for this is war.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: This is clearly our enemy that has done this. We need to fight back. We need to attack, even as we have no idea actually how this tragedy happened and who is responsible.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: And I don't think any of us know how this is going to turn out.
--:-- Kyle Spencer: But the fact that you have the number of folks who are saying, let's go to war, should be very, very alarming to all of us.
--:-- Host: Kyle Spencer is a journalist and author of the book Raising Them Right.
--:-- Host: Today's show was produced by Avishai Artsy and Rebecca Ibarra with help from Jolie Myers.
--:-- Host: Amina El-Sadi is our editor.
--:-- Host: Our engineers are Patrick Boyd and Adrienne Lilly.
--:-- Host: Laura Bullard and Miles Bryan fact-checked.
--:-- Host: I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. Thank you.
