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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm Noel King.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're talking about a very big problem for the music industry. A song called Heart on My Sleeve, a collaboration between Drake and The Weeknd, has been making waves. But here's the thing: it's not really a collaboration between Drake and The Weeknd. It's a song created by an AI using their voices.
--:-- Noel King: And that's got a lot of people in the music industry very worried.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: To explain what's going on, we're joined by Nilay Patel, the editor-in-chief of The Verge.
--:-- Nilay Patel: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, Nilay, let's start with the basics. What's the story behind this song?
--:-- Nilay Patel: Well, when Drake first started getting attention back in 2009, I was skeptical. This guy was on Degrassi, now he's a rapper. But then Drake got undeniably good. But after a while, it felt like Drake stopped caring. Like maybe he was just using a bunch of templates to write his songs. And now, maybe machines. The biggest Drake song in the country, as far as anyone can tell, wasn't written or performed by Drake.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's a pretty scathing assessment of Drake's career. But let's get back to the song. So, this AI-generated song, Heart on My Sleeve, it's a collaboration between Drake and The Weeknd. But it's not really a collaboration. It's a song created by an AI using their voices.
--:-- Nilay Patel: Exactly. And the thing that's really interesting about this is that it's not just a simple case of AI-generated music. This is a song that's been created using a combination of AI and human input. The person who created the song, Ghost Rider, is a ghostwriter who's been in the industry for a while. And they've used AI to create a song that sounds like it was written by Drake and The Weeknd.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's got a lot of people in the music industry worried. Because if this song is created using AI, then what does that mean for the future of music?
--:-- Nilay Patel: Well, I think this is just the beginning of a very big problem for the music industry. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's to stop AI from creating music that sounds like it was written by anyone else?
--:-- Noel King: And that raises a lot of questions about ownership and copyright.
--:-- Nilay Patel: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then who owns the rights to that music? Is it the person who created the AI, or is it the person whose voice is being used?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's a question that's going to be at the heart of a lot of lawsuits in the coming years.
--:-- Noel King: So, let's talk about the specifics of this case. The song Heart on My Sleeve was created by Ghost Rider, who's a ghostwriter. And they used AI to create a song that sounds like it was written by Drake and The Weeknd.
--:-- Nilay Patel: Right. And the thing that's really interesting about this is that the song is not just a simple case of AI-generated music. It's a song that's been created using a combination of AI and human input. And the person who created the song, Ghost Rider, is a ghostwriter who's been in the industry for a while.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that raises a lot of questions about the role of ghostwriters in the music industry.
--:-- Nilay Patel: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's the point of hiring a ghostwriter in the first place?
--:-- Noel King: So, let's talk about the future of music. If AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what does that mean for the future of the music industry?
--:-- Nilay Patel: Well, I think this is just the beginning of a very big problem for the music industry. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's to stop AI from creating music that sounds like it was written by anyone else?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that raises a lot of questions about ownership and copyright.
--:-- Nilay Patel: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then who owns the rights to that music? Is it the person who created the AI, or is it the person whose voice is being used?
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll be talking to Holly Herndon, an artist who's been working with AI to create music.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome back to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm Noel King.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're talking about the future of music and the role of AI in creating music.
--:-- Noel King: And we're joined by Holly Herndon, an artist who's been working with AI to create music.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, Holly, let's talk about your work with AI. How did you get started with this?
--:-- Holly Herndon: Well, I've been making music since I was a child. But when I went to college, I decided to start using the laptop as my primary instrument. And that was a little bit weird at first because a lot of people didn't consider a laptop an actual instrument.
--:-- Noel King: But you saw it as an instrument.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Exactly. And I realized that it was this very personal instrument that knows more about me than any other instrument before.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's when you started working with AI?
--:-- Holly Herndon: Yeah. I started experimenting with AI around 2016. And I realized pretty early on that your model is your data. So it really makes a big difference what you train your AI on.
--:-- Noel King: And you've been working with AI to create music that sounds like it was written by a human.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Exactly. And I've been working with a model of my own voice, which I call Holly Plus.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's an AI-generated version of your voice.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Yeah. And it's been really interesting to see how people react to it. Some people think it's amazing, and others think it's creepy.
--:-- Noel King: And that raises a lot of questions about ownership and copyright.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then who owns the rights to that music? Is it the person who created the AI, or is it the person whose voice is being used?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's a question that's going to be at the heart of a lot of lawsuits in the coming years.
--:-- Noel King: So, Holly, what do you think is the future of music?
--:-- Holly Herndon: I think it's going to be a lot more interesting. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's to stop AI from creating music that sounds like it was written by anyone else?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that raises a lot of questions about the role of human creativity in music.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's the point of human creativity in music?
--:-- Noel King: So, let's talk about the specifics of this case. The song Heart on My Sleeve was created by Ghost Rider, who's a ghostwriter. And they used AI to create a song that sounds like it was written by Drake and The Weeknd.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Right. And the thing that's really interesting about this is that the song is not just a simple case of AI-generated music. It's a song that's been created using a combination of AI and human input.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that raises a lot of questions about the role of ghostwriters in the music industry.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's the point of hiring a ghostwriter in the first place?
--:-- Noel King: So, let's talk about the future of music. If AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what does that mean for the future of the music industry?
--:-- Holly Herndon: Well, I think this is just the beginning of a very big problem for the music industry. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then what's to stop AI from creating music that sounds like it was written by anyone else?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that raises a lot of questions about ownership and copyright.
--:-- Holly Herndon: Exactly. Because if AI can create music that sounds like it was written by a human, then who owns the rights to that music? Is it the person who created the AI, or is it the person whose voice is being used?
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks for listening to Today Explained. If you want to learn more about the future of music and the role of AI in creating music, check out our show notes at vox.com/todayexplained.
--:-- Noel King: And if you want to support our show, make a financial contribution to Vox at bit.ly/givepodcasts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks for listening.
--:-- Noel King: And thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And thanks to Holly Herndon for joining us.
--:-- Noel King: We'll be back tomorrow with another episode of Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks for listening.
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