--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained, I'm your host Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Adio. Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management platform that Adio says is built for the next era of companies. A powerful data structure adapts to your business model, syncs in all your contacts in minutes, and enriches your business with actionable data. Adio says it also allows you to create those email sequences, those real-time reports, those powerful automations, which they claim can help you build what matters most, your company. You can go to adio.com slash todayexplained to get 15% off your first year. That's A-T-T-I-O dot com slash todayexplained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from Macy's. Layering is an art form. All it takes is a bit of intention, style, and of course, the perfect cold weather staples. So find the perfect look for you with the help of Macy's Fall Fashion Guide, your one-stop shop for fall's latest trends and must-haves, curated by their experts. From leather to denim to cozy knits, find everything you need to piece together your new fall look. Explore the Macy's Fall Guide for yourself and shop in-store or online at Macy's.com.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sports! We don't talk about them enough on this show, but we try to sneak them in here and there. This year we covered the Olympics a few times. We talked about tennis. And one time we talked about one NBA MVP. That episode ended up being one of our team's favorites for the year. So we thought we'd bring it to you one last time before the year's out. It's called an MVP for the world. You might remember it from August. But for all those who feel like August was a lifetime and a vaccination and a wave and an entire variant ago, here it is again.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A few weeks ago, a very tall Greek-Nigerian basketball god named Giannis Adetokounmpo brought a championship to the city of Milwaukee, and his story is simply a little too irresistible to pass up. So if you'll indulge us for a minute here, I promise you won't regret it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In the league, they call Giannis the Greek freak. It's not disrespect. He's okay with it. Definitely love my nickname. I don't know who came out with it, but the way I play, a lot of people say you're a freakish athlete. To be fair, he is extremely tall. Can you imagine a 42-year-old mentally trying to stop that? Out of quarter, eight more in the third quarter. Giannis is nearly seven feet tall, but he handles the ball like he is a point guard. He can dazzle and move and flow on the court with such agility and such grace and yet be so forceful, so dominant.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You just do not see somebody do the freakish things he does, such as chase down a defender and block him or rise up from the complete end of the other side of the court and block a shot. He dunks with such terror that people just run out of the way. Mirren Fader is a writer at The Ringer. She's also wrapping up an entire book about Giannis called Giannis. And she spends a lot of time in her book writing about the Greek half of his nickname.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Basketball is becoming more international than ever and people are wondering whether Giannis can become the face of the league and he's been held up as this national hero to his home country in Greece people have fallen in love with his story and called it a fairy tale but it is so much more complex than that and the way that Giannis is grappling with his identity as being a child of parents that migrated to Greece from Nigeria somebody that grew up in Greece but often dealt with racism and being undocumented.
--:-- Mirren Fader: It's just part of his story that's been swept under the rug. And so now that he's won this championship, everybody suddenly wants to know everything about him. And I think, honestly, as wonderful as he is on the basketball court, as dominant as he is, as much as what he has done is, honestly, us witnessing greatness in real time, I think basketball is the least interesting part about him.
--:-- Mirren Fader: So Yanis' parents, Charles and Veronica, they both grew up in Nigeria. And around the 70s and 80s, they are thinking about moving somewhere because oil, which is really valued in Nigeria, is plummeting and the economy is not doing well. And there's various forms of political unrest. And they're thinking about going to Germany. Charles was a semi-pro soccer player. And so he had an opportunity to play there. But unfortunately, he got injured and they couldn't stay there. And so they decided to go to Greece. And that's where Giannis and his brothers were born.
--:-- Mirren Fader: But because Greece does not offer birthright citizenship, they were all essentially undocumented. And they settled in a neighborhood called Sepolia. And Sepolia is in Athens. It's working class. And Giannis and his family really struggled. They could not get jobs or access to renting certain apartments or getting a passport or opening a bank account.
--:-- Mirren Fader: What did they do to survive to get by? The family sold trinkets on the street and they would go to nearby markets, even though they didn't have permits, and they would sell whatever they could find. We used to sell glasses, watches, then we used to sell CDs, DVDs. They would often leave as a family for a week or two to go to upscale beaches, such as Alimos Beach, and they would try to sell it to richer people.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Giannis' entire childhood was consumed by this rhythm of selling and moving and selling and moving. And it was hard for him growing up in the 90s, trying to figure out how he can sell items to help his family and also look out for his brothers. Giannis had a kind of authority over his younger brothers, Kostas and Alex, and they were in awe of him. They followed everything he did.
--:-- Mirren Fader: So even though the family could not make ends meet at times to have food, Giannis would give whatever portion he had of food to his younger brothers. We didn't have a lot of money, but we had a lot of happiness. So it wasn't broken happiness-wise. You know, when we were struggling back in the day, we were all together.
--:-- Mirren Fader: They were braving financial hardship, but also neo-Nazis. Yeah, at this time, there was a group called Golden Dawn. This is the terrifying modern face of fascism. A warning siren to the world from the streets of Athens. And it's a neo-Nazi criminal organization that would chase migrants, stab migrants, even murder migrants.
--:-- Mirren Fader: They would go in working-class neighborhoods like Sepolia, where Giannis grew up, like other close-by neighborhoods like Kipseli or Kos. And they would say things like, blood, honor, golden dawn, Greece is for Greeks. Out. Out of my country. Out of my home. And it didn't just happen with golden dawn. It was just the everyday attitudes of normal white Greeks.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Giannis and his brothers would be walking to a nearby cafe, Kivalto's Cafe, where the owner, Giannis Sikas, would give them food and the people in the restaurant would say, why are you giving to the black kids? How much of these early years where he's trying to help his family get by by street vending and trying to help his brothers survive by sharing his portions with them, does he spend playing basketball?
--:-- Mirren Fader: Giannis doesn't spend any of it playing basketball. He is not even on his radar. He's a soccer player. Soccer. Yeah, I know. Soccer. Now I know why Giannis has the magical footwork. Yes, he was a soccer player and he wanted to be just like his dad. His dad was his hero, his role model, and they would play pickup soccer.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Charles, 40-something, breezing down the field, giving it to Giannis. He and his brothers were mostly strikers. And basketball, I don't even think he heard of basketball until age 13. And that is when this man, a random white man who does not know Giannis and his brothers, named Spiros Bellinatis, just watches the boys playing tag one day.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And Spiros as he tells me feels he has some sort of cosmic divine intervention from above that says this kid is special. He destined for greatness. I will compare his psychology to Muhammad Ali. If you see Muhammad Ali's eyes and a spark in his eyes, this is the spark that I saw in his eyes when I met him.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Now, I know what you're thinking. This sounds ridiculous. He's on a playground and some guy just walks up to him and is like, you, you're the next star of the NBA. Exactly. And Giannis is not a star. He is 13 years old, lanky as all get out. He is coordinated because he plays soccer, but he's not talented in basketball. He's just running around.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And so Spiros, who I believe really does like to embellish this story. Still, we can give him credit. He identified Giannis as being athletic and invited him to play for a team that he helped coach called Phil Athleticos that practices in a very small gym with cracked windows and a broken rim.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And here's this man that says, will you play for me? And Giannis is thinking, I don't have time to play for you. I have to help my family put food on the table. Spiros offers to give him and the family money if Giannis gives it a shot. With not too many options out there, Giannis agrees.
--:-- Mirren Fader: The problem is he hates basketball at first. He hates basketball. He's not somebody that just took to it immediately. He would commit travel violation after travel violation. Not used to holding the ball. Right, right. He's like, I'm sorry, I am used to moving with my feet.
--:-- Mirren Fader: But his oldest brother, Thanasis, loves basketball. And so Giannis is like, hmm, if that means I get to hang out with my brother, I guess I'll keep going. But they don't practice regularly because Giannis keeps having to leave every couple days, and then he's gone, and then he comes back, and then he leaves, and then he leaves for more stretches three weeks at a time because he's going to these upscale beaches with his family to sell items.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And the coaches, they know Giannis isn't ready to be a star basketball player yet, but they know that he's tall. They know that he has a good work ethic, and he is kind of a natural in terms of running and jumping and moving. And so they keep trying to convince him to come back to the gym.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And at one point, Spiros comes to Giannis' apartment and he gives him a book on the legend Maradona. And he says, you could be the Maradona of basketball. And Giannis is just like, okay, dude. He doesn't believe it, but he's like, I'll come back.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And then something miraculous happens in the next couple of years. Giannis falls in love with basketball and he gets really good, but he's still not good enough for the top two teams. And even if he is, he doesn't have the proper documentation. So essentially, Giannis is stuck in this A2 division, but he is dreaming of becoming something so much more.
--:-- Mirren Fader: He can't advance in Greek basketball because he's an undocumented immigrant, but how do Greek basketball fans react to seeing this undocumented Nigerian giant in their minor leagues? Yeah, away games were really awful for Giannis and Thanasis. Fans would hurl racist insults at them. One game was the worst in a place called Trigola, and fans just kept screaming, go home monkeys.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And that happened often on the road. It was really painful because there was nothing Giannis could say or do. He's in the game. He hears it and it's devastating. And I talked with a lot of his friends about it as well. And it was just very painful. And Alex, Giannis' youngest brother, told me, you know, we've been treated like outsiders our entire lives.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Like, yes, there were people that were kind to us and made us feel like racism wasn't a problem. This is Alex saying this. But that doesn't mean that everyone else did. And not only is he made aware of this on the basketball court, but he is constantly having the anxiety and the fear that his parents will get deported at any moment.
--:-- Mirren Fader: So Giannis just tries to keep his head down and go about his business and try to play the best basketball he can, but there is this fear always gnawing at him that someday somebody could call the police and that would be it. His parents would be gone.
--:-- Mirren Fader: When does that become something he doesn't have to worry about anymore? The NBA hears about Giannis, and all the scouts are whispering amongst themselves, who is this kid? I've never heard of him. Because usually prospects in the American system, and even internationally as well, but particularly from America, are identified as early as 13 years old.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Giannis was busy hating basketball at 13 years old. So it is extremely rare to have a scout find out about a first-round prospect at age 17. But that's what happened with Giannis. A video circulated among scouts. Giannis had agents, and the agents sent the video to scouts. And it was very hard to tell how good Giannis was from this video because the film was grainy.
--:-- Mirren Fader: You weren't sure how tall he was. But they are intrigued, and they see somebody that is very fast and coordinated and smart and has good court vision and, of course, that freakish size. And so 30 GMs and more and scouts come to this little tiny gym in Zografu, which is where Phil Athleticos is based, and there's not even enough chairs for them.
--:-- Mirren Fader: I found that the coaches told me they weren't anticipating so many scouts. They had to go get more plastic chairs to fit all these American coaches. And so here Giannis finally has this shot. He just has to prove himself in front of these scouts, and his family will no longer have to worry about money. So naturally, he's a bit nervous, but he performs well enough that the Milwaukee Bucks want to take a chance on him.
--:-- Mirren Fader: But in order for that to happen, Giannis has to get his citizenship papers. And remember, he's undocumented. His brothers are undocumented. His parents are undocumented. But then, once Giannis' name starts circulating as somebody that might climb above NBA draft boards, the Greek government is like, oh, I guess we have to give him papers.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And I interviewed the prime minister at the time who played a large role in that, Antonis Samaras. And it was very clear to me that the only reason he gave citizenship to Giannis and Thanassis is because they had a chance at the NBA. Doesn't making it to the NBA solve all his problems? No, his problems actually intensify in a number of ways once he gets to Milwaukee.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Chime. Nobody likes fees and complicated banking, says Chime. And Chime gets that, says Chime. Chime is a financial technology company that says they understand that every dollar counts, So when you set up direct deposit through time, they say you get access to fee-free features such as free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So much more. Chime says with qualifying direct deposits, you can be eligible for free overdraft up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals. Plus, they say you don't need to worry about monthly fees or maintenance fees. You can work on your financial goals through Chime today. You can open an account in two minutes at Chime.com slash explained. That's Chime.com slash explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. Members FDIC. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out-of-network ATMs.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. News and World Report 2023. Chime checking account required.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for the show comes from Charles Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: With the 15th pick in the 2013 NBA draft the Milwaukee Bucks select Giannis Adetokounmpo from Athens Greece He last played for Phil Athleticos in Greece
--:-- Mirren Fader: So, Giannis is finally drafted to the Milwaukee Bucks. He's officially a Greek citizen, finally. But his problems aren't solved by getting into the NBA. First of all, he is learning the language. He can speak English enough to understand sort of what people are saying, but we're talking about learning hundreds of plays in the best league in the world.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And coaches talk really fast. And Giannis was constantly playing catch-up, trying to learn English phrases, learning new things about American food. So after that, I went to the table and I was sitting, and I saw Coach standing up and going back. And when he came back, I was like, Coach, what are you doing? You can do that.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Coach told me, he said, of course you can do that. You can go and take as many times as you want. I didn't know that. I was putting food on my plate. But I think the biggest thing was that he was lonely. I was in the gym all day. I was sleeping in the gym. I had nothing to do.
--:-- Mirren Fader: I was going back home and I couldn't even watch TV. I didn't know how to work the TV over here. Without his family, who were still stuck in Greece because they did not get papers fast-tracked the way he did, he just felt utterly alone.
--:-- Mirren Fader: How does he develop as a Midwesterner and as a basketball player? Thankfully, the Bucs were god-awful that year, and they only won 15 games. Fifteen! Fifteen! Good heavens. So he gets thrust into the game because they're so bad, because there's nothing at stake.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And he actually gets to develop by making mistakes and learning on the fly. It's actually the best thing for him. Milwaukee also had a support staff in the organization that cared about him as a human being. They taught him how to drive. They were there for him through his dark moments.
--:-- Mirren Fader: They stayed up late with him into the night when he felt lonely. They were always making sure that his mental health was okay because they realized he was a big part of their future. And even though he hadn't developed yet, he was going to at some point. And then finally his family gets the proper documentation that they need to come over.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Which might I add might not have happened if the Bucks owner was not a U.S. senator in Herb Cole and so finally it is rumored from the people that I spoke to that were really knowledgeable about the situation and the ins and outs of how this worked with the government is that it's rumored that it went all the way up to the Secretary of State John Kerry at the time who helped make this happen.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And so there were a lot of people looking out for Giannis behind the scenes to make this happen. OK, so it takes a now retired senator, Herb Cole of, you know, Cole's department store fame, plus John Kerry of, I don't know, Iran for president fame. Who knows what else to get Giannis's family out to Milwaukee with him?
--:-- Mirren Fader: Once they get there, does it change his game? It changes his game completely. Giannis is happy. He's comfortable. He's walking around with a brightness about him. I mean, he has so much gumption that he walks up to his assistant coach, Josh Oppenheimer, when they're about to play the Knicks and says, I'm going to bust Carmelo Anthony's ass.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Okay, we're talking about Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo Anthony in his prime on the Knicks, baller. Giannis at the time, scrawny scrub rookie. But he honestly was so amped and he just loved the fact that his family was there to watch him do it and when they played the Knicks, Charles the dad, Veronica, they were so happy they were high-fiving each other, Alex was screaming at the top of his lungs, his head tilted so far back up to the sky.
--:-- Mirren Fader: I mean they were living a dream and it was so wonderful to see how does he go from being like a scrawny rookie on a team that has like 15 wins to the guy we just saw win a championship. Giannis practically lives in the weight room, would not have been surprised if he had a sleeping bag in there.
--:-- Mirren Fader: He weightlifted so much that everyone started to make fun of him because he would, for example, do bench press and then go in front of the mirror and flex and see if he saw any gains. I'm sure he's not the first dude to do that, though. He's just like, I'm going to get big. I'm going to be just like LeBron. I'm going to get better. You know, they're not going to know what's coming for me.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And, you know, the image of Giannis at that time is like, okay, he's so adorable. We love him and his family. He loves smoothies. How cute. Giannis is like, I'm done being cute. Like, I need to get mean. He puts in a tremendous amount of work. He's still kind of skinny, but he puts on muscle and miraculously grows two inches.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And that enables him to compete with the best of the best. And he just shows these glimmers of brilliance. He is a tremendous defender. He even makes three-pointers, which is not part of his game. And he just has this knack to get to the basket. And he starts learning his powers and realizing he can just dunk on people.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And he completely transforms into a superstar. He's the best player in the world. Period. He did it every single way it could be done last night he drove to the bucket he posted up he hit mid-range shots he hit three-point shots he blocked the best big man in the league four times he led the fast break he had 11 points in the fourth quarter he had a late assist I mean what else could he do.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And so Giannis beefs up and develops this mean face and he becomes a much better player. He becomes a great player. Everything seems to be working for him. He is somebody that we're putting now in conversations about potential league MVP. He is dominating on the offensive end, the defensive end. He's one of the game's best.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And then tragedy strikes again. His dad, Charles, dies of a heart attack at age 54. You know, Giannis always wanted to be like his father. He looked up to him since he was a child, wanting to be that soccer player. His dad was always inspiring him and the work ethic required to achieve anything in life.
--:-- Mirren Fader: You know, I've said this before, you know, my dad had no money, you know, had nothing. So his wealth was us. That's why we tried to represent him in the best way possible, every single day. I went to their home. I was in their basement, and they had this large, beautiful portrait of Giannis and his brothers ascending up in various basketball poses with the words, I am my father's legacy.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And so, you know, Giannis really changes after that because for him, family is the most important thing in the world, far more important than basketball. And so they just cling tighter as a family after that. And it's not long after that that he's given the opportunity to leave Milwaukee, right? Exactly.
--:-- Mirren Fader: So at the height of Giannis' fame, now there's speculations that he might leave because he would be eligible for a Supermax extension, which is a lot of money given to lure a player to stay with the franchise. And it becomes this huge media circus. Should Giannis leave Milwaukee and go chase a ring? Absolutely. He needs to go. Will the generational player leave just like the last one?
--:-- Mirren Fader: Sometime tomorrow, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar will officially become a member of the Los Angeles Lakers. Because Milwaukee was, quote, too small for him. And I'm guessing he decides to stay. Yes. You are looking at a picture now of the Hone Bridge, which is lit up blue and white in honor of the Greek flag, in honor of the Greek freak here in Milwaukee.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And of course, everyone in Milwaukee either took a deep breath, cried, danced. I mean, everyone I talked to just can remember the exact moment where they were when Yadis said he was staying. And he doesn't just stay. He goes from being a kid who didn't have enough food to eat on the table and giving his food to his brothers to becoming like a rich, rich, rich basketball player.
--:-- Mirren Fader: $228 million, the highest contract in NBA history. He is so overcome with emotion. He said his dad would be dancing right now if he saw him sign this deal. I was happy. It was the right thing to do. You know, discuss with my agent, you know, the team, my family. You know, talk to my mother. I asked my mother, do you want to move? She said no. I said, okay, cool. I'm just going to sign the deal then.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Money is something that Giannis has contended with his entire NBA career He was deeply hesitant to spend it when he first got to America so fearful that all of this goodness and happiness and wealth could be taken away as quickly as it came because he was so used to not having enough.
--:-- Mirren Fader: After becoming this $228 million man, how long does he have to wait before he gets to taste that real NBA victory? Well, in a surprise to yours truly, who is writing the book, it would only take another year. To win a championship on the biggest stage in the world. It's over. The Bucs have done it. The long wait has ended.
--:-- Mirren Fader: After a half century, the Milwaukee Bucs are NBA champions once again. Giannis and the Bucs rebound from a pandemic year, which is also filled with so many protests in which the Bucs are at the forefront. And Giannis is very much a part of that and speaks out. I want my kid to grow up here in Milwaukee and not to be scared to walk in the street.
--:-- Mirren Fader: I want my kid to have hate in his heart. The Bucs continue to persevere and persevere, and they pull off the unthinkable. Not only do they reach the NBA Finals, they win the title. And Giannis scores 50 points in a Game 6 victory that immortalizes him. As not only one of the all-time greats, But now everyone's saying, could he be the face of the NBA right now?
--:-- Mirren Fader: I want to thank Milwaukee for believing in me. You know, thank my teammates, man. They played hard every freaking game. You know, I trusted this team. I wanted to do it here in the city. I wanted to do it with these guys. So I'm happy. I'm happy that we were able to get it done.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And to celebrate, he didn't end up going to Disney World or whatever. He went to Chick-fil-A and he brought both of his trophies. These trophies are not leaving my side. What if all of a sudden I wake up and this is all a dream? My favorite thing is that he is doing this live and he says to the woman taking his order. Can I put your camera? Do you mind or no?
--:-- Mirren Fader: Sure. There's 150,000 people watching you right now. Really? Yes. You know, it's just so Giannis, like asking, you know, and then they have this adorable moment. He's like. So can I have, please, a 50-piece Mac Minis? 50, exactly. Okay. Not 51, none. 49 chicken minis, yes? 50.
--:-- Mirren Fader: That's why they love him so much. He's so relatable. I mean, who among us has not had a Chick-fil-A stop? Thank you. My pleasure. And then can I have a couple of awards? For someone who probably follows basketball a lot closer than a lot of people in our audience, What does this win mean that, you know, Giannis Atetokounmpo got this championship for the Bucs?
--:-- Mirren Fader: And what does that mean for the league and for the game? He is living in an era where super teams are built. The best stars go to all one team and they're stacked. And people are angry because they say it disrupts the integrity of the game. And Giannis is like, I'm not going to join a super team. I'm going to stick with my small town, small market team.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And we're going to build something. And we're going to struggle from 15 wins and keep getting better and better and better and put in the work and win. And he proved that that is possible. And whether or not they win another title, he has changed the city of Milwaukee forever.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Not only did he stay, as we talked about, but he helped Milwaukee stay. You know, one thing we didn't discuss was there was a period of time since the 80s in which the Milwaukee Bucks were always in grave danger of leaving the city because they did not attract a lot of fans. The arenas that they played in, such as the Bradley Center, were not modern.
--:-- Mirren Fader: And, you know, Adam Silver said by the time Giannis got there, you know, you need to have a better arena or this team might leave. And Milwaukeeans saw the Seattle Supersonics leave. They knew it could be them. So Giannis comes and turns into a star, and Milwaukee starts selling out games, and he literally saves the franchise from leaving.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Not only that, but it feels like in doing so, he sort of reminded the country, in a pretty dark period, it seems like, of the American dream. And it's ironic, of course, because he's not even American. He wasn't even Greek until the NBA took interest in him. And he wasn't even Nigerian until sometime after that.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Do you think his story is big enough and remarkable enough that he changed anyone's attitudes towards immigrants, be it in Western Europe or here in the United States? It's complicated because certainly there is a level of inspiration to his story. For example, I talked to a lot of young Black migrant kids growing up in Greece right now that picked up a basketball because of Giannis.
--:-- Mirren Fader: But even as Giannis ascended to global superstardom and a real symbol of hope for Greeks to cling to, there were still so many in Greece to this day that say racist things about him, that draw swastikas on murals of him. And I think that people have a really hard time of holding both of those things in their heads at once.
--:-- Mirren Fader: That he can be proud of a country that does not always treat him well. He can be honest about his experiences of not being treated well and his experiences of being treated with dignity and respect. So I think that to talk about Giannis, we have to talk about all these other factors because he doesn't exist in a bubble.
--:-- Mirren Fader: Janus is Greek and Nigerian and an adopted son of Milwaukee and this idea of home is fascinating to me. Milwaukee is home now but Sepoli is still home and if he decides to explore his roots in Lagos, Lagos will be home. And I think Giannis, his fluidity with identity and the way that he's exploring those sides show me that this is a kid that grew up feeling not necessarily belonging anywhere.
--:-- Mirren Fader: He belongs in all of those places. Yeah, just believe, man. Just I hope, I hope, I hope I give people around the world from Africa, from Europe, give them hope, you know, that it can be done. It can be done. Eight years ago, eight and a half years ago, before I came to the league, I didn't know where my next move would come from.
--:-- Mirren Fader: You know, my mom was selling stuff in the street. Like, and now I'm here sitting at the top of the top, you know, and I'm extremely blessed, and that's why I can never get, I'm extremely blessed. If I never have the chance to sit on this table ever again, I'm fine with it. You know, I'm fine with it.
--:-- Mirren Fader: But, like, I hope this can give everybody around the world hope and allow them to believe in their dreams.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Mirren Fader, she's the author of The Improbable Rise of an NBA MVP. You can find it wherever you find your books.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Rameswaram for them. It's today explained. The show is made by Amina Al-Sadi, edited by Matt Collette, engineered by Efim Shapiro, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, and hosted by Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Our facts are checked by Laura Bullard. We had extra help this week from Paul Mounsey and Christian Ayala and Jillian Weinberger. Liz Kelly Nelson is the veep of audio here at Vox. We use music from Breakmaster Cylinder and Noam Hassenfeld.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can get in touch with us anytime at todayexplained at vox.com. Thank you so much for listening. This is the last big show we're doing this year, but we'll have a little nice, surprise-y kind of treat for you tomorrow. Today Explained is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thank you.
