--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today Explained. Usually we do the credits at the end of the show, but today, for reasons, we're gonna start with them.
--:-- Paul Robert Mounsey: Mixed and mastered by me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Fact-checked by Laura Bullard.
--:-- Laura Bullard: Thanks for having me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Amanda Llewellyn helped with the recording.
--:-- Amanda Llewellyn: Thanks for having me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And the episode was produced by Miles Bryan, who happens to be the tallest producer at Today Explained. Miles, say hello to everyone.
--:-- Miles Bryan: Hello.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is important because today's show is about short people, and short people believe that tall people have it made in the shade. Miles, is it true?
--:-- Miles Bryan: They're unfortunately right.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think life is much easier being tall. I feel like everything I've wanted or tried to do has been slightly easier because I'm six foot three and not five foot three.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today's show is about a bone breaking procedure shorter men in America are going through to be just a few inches taller and how COVID-19 made it much easier to get the procedure. That's coming up on Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from the FIFA World Cup. The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It is the ultimate celebration of sports and culture. You can get closer to the beautiful game with a hospitality package, closer to the action, the best seats, the best suites, closer to match day and that world-class food and that world-class entertainment, closer to the experience of a lifetime. Book a hospitality package at fifaworldcup.com slash hospitality.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from strawberry.me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown? Or never wanted in the first place? Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying. But are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from strawberry.me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: My name is Chris Giamale, and I'm an articles editor at GQ.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Yeah, so I've long been fascinated with this procedure called cosmetic leg lengthening. Basically, it's this super gnarly surgery you can get done where they break your legs and it results in you gaining anywhere from three to six inches of height.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I'm guessing a lot of people in our audience just heard that this was a possibility for the first time. You break your legs to gain a few inches of height.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Yeah, that's correct. It's like the most gruesome sounding plastic surgery I've ever heard of.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I first stumbled upon it like, you know, 15 years ago because I'm a short non-king myself and Googled how to be taller as an adult and stumbled upon it.
--:-- Chris Giamale: So this procedure has been around for a long time, but actually in the last five years or so is they've made huge technological advances in it where you can get it done very discreetly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And, you know, you could basically lie to everyone in your life that I fell down and broke my hip in the bathtub and they would be none the wiser that you actually got it done.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Is there some sort of procedure where you break your hip and then get two to three inches taller or something?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, what's really interesting about it is one of the responses I saw to this article was that people were like, I would totally notice if you came back three inches taller.
--:-- Chris Giamale: But I don't know that's true. You know, like some sometimes it's like one of your close friends gets a haircut and you can't really tell you're like something's different about you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm not sure what it is, but something's different for you and it's like oh they got bangs.
--:-- Chris Giamale: We think we're more perceptive than we are and you know what's interesting about a lot of the mostly guys who are getting this procedure done is they're not telling anyone that they're actually getting it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So they're just showing up, coming out of the work from home COVID era now, suddenly three inches taller, which is wild.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Hmm. Who's getting this surgery? There are now hundreds of guys in the U.S. alone who are getting it done every year.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: One thing that's important to note is the procedure is ridiculously expensive. It's an elective surgery, so you're not going to be covered by insurance.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And the base model, which basically entails getting your femurs broken, costs $75,000 alone.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So which guys out there can afford that?
--:-- Chris Giamale: So all sorts of guys, a lot of tech workers, people from Google, Facebook, Microsoft, PayPal, you name it, like, you know, it seems to be spreading a little virally throughout the tech community right now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A lot of CEOs, often shorter men who are looking for a little bit of stature. A lot of trans men who want to feel more like themselves.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Some actors, there's a news anchorman. Basketball players are actually getting it too.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Whoa. You kind of lose the fast twitch muscles that are required to actually play sports.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Like maybe you're going to be a little bit taller or something, but you know, have those Kevin Durant legs all of a sudden, but it doesn't necessarily give you the skills or the explosiveness that you sort of need to succeed.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So it's really risky if you're an athlete looking to get it done.
--:-- Chris Giamale: It sounds like a modern convention, but how long has this kind of procedure been around?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Tell me where this comes from.
--:-- Chris Giamale: You know, like all cosmetic procedures, it sort of started off as a way to solve real problems.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Like say, you know, you had a deformity or, you know, your left foot was shorter than your right foot or something like that.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And, you know, like boob jobs and Botox and all that kind of stuff.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's sort of found its way to people who just want to look like a hotter version of themselves.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I guess that's inevitable with any of these sort of elective surgeries.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it's more gruesome than all the other ones.
--:-- Chris Giamale: But I kind of suspect that it's going to be normalized within the next five to ten years.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Tell us about the procedure.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I believe you witnessed a procedure.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I met up with Dr. Kevin Debit Parshad, who's at the Limb Plastics Institute in Las Vegas.
--:-- Chris Giamale: So I Dr. Kevin Debit Parshad, I'm an orthopedic surgeon with fellowship training in limb deformity and limb lengthening surgery.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He let me into his operating room which was hilarious because there this patient who passed out his junk is taped off and he in the middle of the room and they blasting music.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And I kid you not, like it was Usher's My Way that was playing right when I entered.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I was like, dude, are we at the club or are we in a surgery room right now?
--:-- Chris Giamale: Like it was, it was kind of like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, we need, you know, a little bit of background. We don't like complete silence and that kind of stuff.
--:-- Chris Giamale: A lot of surgeons, uh, you listen to some music to kind of keep themselves entertained as they kind of do the same procedure they do every single day every day of their life.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The surgery basically goes like this so the patient is out for the whole thing and the doctor starts a break in the femur by making a couple of incisions in your leg using a device called the reamer which is basically this handheld drill that has like a two foot long drill bit in it.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And he inserts in the leg to start the break and starts drilling a hole down the center of the bone so he can insert the nail inside.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And when he pulled the reamer out, like, I kid you not, it was like Jack Nicholson taking out his comically long pistol from when he was playing the Joker in the first Batman movie.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Come on, you gruesome son of a bitch. Come to me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I was just like, this defies the laws of physics. Like, that went to another dimension.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I don't know what you were drilling, but it somehow fit in there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Then he inserts the nail into the leg using a guide wire and some x-rays and like, you know, there's people chattering all around him and they sort of move with the mechanical efficiency of an F1 pit crew.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Like it's so orchestrated, so perfect and really, you know, well done.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Funniest part of the surgery is once the nail is inserted and screws are inserted in place, he has to break the leg entirely.
--:-- Chris Giamale: So he inserts something called the osteotome, which is basically this razor sharp chisel into the leg and starts hammering.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Dr. D is like talking to me casually the whole time like he's hanging a picture frame.
--:-- Chris Giamale: He's like, sometimes it takes one break to do this. Other times it takes 10.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he's just hammering the leg.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And I was like, bro, I think you should be looking. You don't want to be throwing no-look passes while you're doing surgery right now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But he's the best in the world at this thing.
--:-- Chris Giamale: He could probably do this in his sleep.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he completed the whole right leg alone in under 38 minutes, which I thought was insane.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Okay. And left leg 38 minutes too?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, they kicked me out for that.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Something in the COVID protocols they didn't allow for 39 minutes or something, I guess.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But yeah, I watched one leg and I feel like I got the picture from there.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Were you around when the victim regained consciousness?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The patient, no, he woke up, he looked like a mannequin, like stuck in the back of a garbage truck the whole time.
--:-- Chris Giamale: So I was like, this isn't a real person. Like they, they stage this like the moon landing or something for me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But, uh, no, I wasn't around for that.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Um, woke up two hours later, I'm told very athletic person, athletic build.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And you know, they, they wake up in a haze and it's when they wake up that the real work can sort of begin.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Um, because it's several months of PT as your muscles, like I kind of compare it to the skin on a drum, like your bones are lengthening by a milliliter a day, but your muscles, your nerves, your skin are all elongating and being stretched out sort of like the skin on a drum.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's incredibly painful.
--:-- Chris Giamale: You have to do a lot of stretching, a lot of massage work, and a lot of, you know, it's a lot of discipline on the patient's part to make sure they recover properly from it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I don't find the procedure necessarily dangerous.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I mean, it's still a surgical proceeding, and there's some risks to be taken with that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But overall, I think the procedure can be done from start to finish fairly simply and with good outcome and good result.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Let's talk about pain, Chris.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Everything you just described sounds extremely painful.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Yeah, I talked to a lot of guys who got it done.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: One of them was like, it's like the worst migraine you've ever had, but on your leg.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And it's 24 hours a day and doesn't go away.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You're trying to sleep, you're in bed. There's nothing you can do that'll make it feel better.
--:-- Chris Giamale: So it's just sort of ambient and relentless and always there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For a lot of people, probably unimaginable to voluntarily put yourself through this, not to mention to pay something like 75 to 100K to do it.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Did you get into the psychology of why people want to do this so badly?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I understand the psychology of going from 5'5 to 5'8.
--:-- Chris Giamale: At 5'5, people look at that and say, oh, that guy's short.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But when you're 5'8, you're a little bit closer to the average.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And psychologically, that's just such a powerful thing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think for a lot of the people who get it done, it's more of a confidence thing than anything.
--:-- Chris Giamale: My name is Rich Rotella.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm in my 30s.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I've been building an acting career in Los Angeles, California for over 10 years, and I had bilateral femur lengthening, which means I voluntarily broke my legs to become three inches taller.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it worked.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I was born perfectly healthy, but for whatever reason, as soon as middle school hit, I pretty much plateaued, you know, around five foot five.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Basically been 5'5 for most of my adult life.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And pretty much for the last 20 years, I've always wanted to grow taller.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is something I really want to help people understand.
--:-- Chris Giamale: There is a reason that most people, they look at something like, you know, and I'm doing this with a very, very delicate and gentle tone, if you will, but something like discrimination with racism is very, very obvious, you know, and it's awful, but it exists.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But there's also something called height discrimination.
--:-- Chris Giamale: If you ask any guy who's 5'7", 5'6", 5'5", or shorter, what it's been like, he'll tell you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's dealt with career challenges.
--:-- Chris Giamale: He's dealt with dating challenges.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's dealt with some self-esteem or confidence challenges.
--:-- Chris Giamale: You know, I have the ability to be a leading man, but I've battled with casting about this for now over a decade because they see me as character actor because I'm shorter.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've stood up in my home here in Los Angeles and I've literally just looked at the kitchen.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And I standing there and I like it just looks completely different Everything looks smaller and further away and down if you will
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so it kind of gives me this confident boost
--:-- Chris Giamale: And then when I in the gym and I using like a stationary bike so I can actually sit and do stationary biking, I can see my legs in the mirror.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it just feels good that I know I did something about it.
--:-- Chris Giamale: I think that's probably the most frustrating thing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, people can get rhinoplasty, you know, they get a nose job or they get breast implants or breast reductions or they, you know, they get the tattoo.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Why? Because they wanted to.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So I wanted to grow taller and I finally found a way to make it happen.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That was Rich Rotella.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can decide for yourself how much leading man potential he has over at his YouTube channel.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's Rich Rotella, R-O-T-E-L-L-A.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's on Instagram at Rich Rotella official.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chris Giamale from GQ told us he thinks this procedure will be normalized in five to ten years.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I asked him how he's so sure.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Apparently, they are working on a new kind of nail made of a stronger metal, which will allow patients to be mobile right after the surgery.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So basically, you could get the implant inserted and be walking like not long afterward.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And if it gets approved in 2023.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think that's what they're sort of aiming for with this technology.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think you're going to see this become a lot more commonplace.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You're going to have friends in your circle and maybe in like five, ten years who are suddenly three inches taller.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And what kind of ethical questions does that raise for the rest of us who are stuck being five, six, you know?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I was like six foot nine so I can get with Leoshi because you don't know me, but yo, she's really fine.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, I see her all the time everywhere I go and even in my dreams.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Chime.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Nobody likes fees and complicated banking, says Chime.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Chime gets that, says Chime.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chime is a financial technology company that says they understand that every dollar counts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So when you set up direct deposit through Chime, they say you get access to fee-free features, such as free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit, so much more.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chime says with qualifying direct deposits, you can be eligible for free overdraft, up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Plus, they say you don't need to worry about monthly fees or maintenance fees.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can work on your financial goals through Chime today.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can open an account in two minutes at chime.com slash explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's chime.com slash explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chime feels like progress.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Members FDIC.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Timing depends on submission of payment file.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Fees apply at out-of-network ATMs.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. News and World Report 2023.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chime checking account required.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Why shop at Burlington?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Maybe it's the deals that are new each time you drop by.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Maybe it's the brand names you'll be shocked Burlington has in store.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Or maybe it's the quality of the items, the amazing selection, and the newest trends.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you like to save, but also like to stay in style, Burlington is your answer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And the question you'll be asking yourself is, why go anywhere else?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Burlington. Deals. Brands. Wow.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is still a matter of the height. Why?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How tall are you?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Four foot six.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How tall were you before the accident?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Unfortunately, his profile says he's 6'1".
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So I can wear lifts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Even with lifts, you're not that tall.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: No.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: No, we never discuss that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, I thought you were serious, Vincent.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I am serious.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm not doing that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I won't do that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're back.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today Explained here with Chris Giamale, GQ.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chris, at the top of the show, you suggested you had some personal experience with this story.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's what led you to writing about this?
--:-- Chris Giamale: Yeah, yeah.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, like a lot of other short guys, when I was in my mid-20s, I googled how to be taller as an adult.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sort of led me down this dark path where I first discovered limb lengthening.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Can we talk about what led you to perform that particular Google search?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In the piece, I sort of described the feeling of being short as a slow-onset neurosis.
--:-- Chris Giamale: Like, you sort of don't ever, like, suddenly realize you're short.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You kind of just like hold on to hope that your growth spurt is gonna hit one day when you're in high school as all your friends get taller maybe you get cut from your basketball team maybe a taller love interest doesn't work out because of your shortness or something like that.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And you know I've sort of feel like I've experienced a lot of that stuff in my own personal life and know what it's like to be short.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There was this brief period where you know I was on the dating sites not even the dating apps, like not Tinder or anything like that.
--:-- Chris Giamale: This is like many, many, many years ago where when I listed my actual height at 5'6", just got zero responses.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It was like crickets in there.
--:-- Chris Giamale: And then I started lying a little bit and got up to 5'8 and sparked up some conversations.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And, you know, it just really hit me in a very, not even powerful, just it, it just was like, man, height really does matter out there, whether we want to believe it or not.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's a weird reality and you know my wife actually she's taller than me she's 5'9 and I'm 5'6 and you know it was something in our relationship that kind of always bothered me very early on in our relationship before we ever got together we were old friends and I was like you know what if I was taller than you we'd probably be together already like I said it like quasi drunkenly as a joke.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've felt bad about it for well over a decade now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And in the piece, her and I sort of had a very honest conversation about that, about what allowed her to get over me not being taller than her.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And you're at home right now. Is your wife around?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah. Yeah. You want me to get her?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay. If she's around. One sec.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Let me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is she busy?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She's holding our baby right now, but I could totally go get her.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It'll take a sec.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: hey Sean I'm Judy Judy you married Chris thank you for joining us is Chris still around too
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think we need both of you Yeah he right outside the door
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay Tell him he can come closer
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Chris. Chris, come in.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Arden's the hype man. He's waving a towel right now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, no. All right, we got Chris and Judy on the ones and twos.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We got Arden in the background. He's hype man.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you for joining us.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Judy, Chris was just explaining to us that he himself has been guilty of Googling. I wish I was a little bit taller.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But how conscious of this were you when you met Chris?
--:-- Judy: I didn't know.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, Chris has always had a pretty big personality.
--:-- Judy: And I remember even talking to friends in college. We all ran in similar circles about how, like, did you even know Chris was 5'6"?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, he seems, he's got a presence.
--:-- Judy: You know, I remember going into restaurants and being like, oh, where's my friends?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then I'd hear Chris laugh and I'd be like, there they are.
--:-- Judy: And I'd go find them.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, yeah, his stature was secondary to his outsized personality.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So you're saying spiritually I'm 6'4".
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sure, babe. Sick.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's what I'm saying.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When exactly did you discover that this guy in your friend group was into you?
--:-- Judy: You know, he moved to New York from L.A., and then I followed two years later in completely different pursuits.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We had to kind of become default closer friends because we knew fewer people here.
--:-- Judy: And, you know, it kind of like took off organically from there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think it was mutual.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Probably Chris a little more than me, than me to Chris, but we all caught up with each other eventually.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, I couldn't even look her in the eye.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She was too hot.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It was too much.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then one day as he writes about in his article, he kind of blurts out this drunken confession to you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do you remember that moment, that day?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I remember it differently, slightly.
--:-- Judy: Oh, interesting.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was asking me to be his girlfriend.
--:-- Judy: And I said, no, I don't think that's a good idea.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For a myriad reasons.
--:-- Judy: You know, like many, many reasons.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Including, notably, that we had so many friends in common.
--:-- Judy: It could get really complicated really fast if we're not careful.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I just didn't really feel like it was worth it.
--:-- Judy: And that's when Chris said, oh, come on.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If I were taller than you, we'd already be dating.
--:-- Judy: And as much of a dick as it makes him feel like, I actually felt kind of like a dick too.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, I don't think it was totally invalid for him to say that.
--:-- Judy: I might have been quicker to give it a shot, perhaps.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So to be fair to both of you, in that moment, you thought, wait, no, my concerns are about our friend group and our history.
--:-- Judy: But also, you're right.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you were 6'2", we'd probably be married by now?
--:-- Judy: No, more like I would have maybe given it a shot.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Like I was maybe 80% hesitant.
--:-- Judy: Maybe I'd be like 50% hesitant, you know?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, yeah.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Still hesitant.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It took some work, to be honest.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Because I mean, like, think about all the dumbass tropes you've seen in your lifetime with some like larger woman and some little guy and like it's something to laugh and point at and you know like it was something that I think requires a bit of work and but I'm good now so you had to reprogram yourself is a little bit of so you did some work for me is what you're saying
--:-- Judy: Yes babe I did for love and and yeah I mean like look it I think we all know that it's a superficial thing I think we should all recognize that like this is a looks issue not a personality issue and it's it i mean like we were we've received a lot of messaging over many years about like what constitutes a normal looking couple what's feminine what's masculine etc etc and i think we're defying that to an extent um and like you know part of me was also like okay hypothetically what am i supposed to do with a taller man am i like are we like slow dancing in the living room no are we like doing prom poses in line for jogging roller coasters that we're tall enough to ride as if you're a taller man you know yes that too but i mean like these are like what i like it doesn't serve me i don't know like hypothetically what a taller man in my life would do that you don't do and also what's the trade-off Chris like if you were taller could you be a dick yes maybe right like I don't know like maybe this the package is you how you are and that's just really who I'm in love with oh thanks dog you're welcome man love you dog
