--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram here with Ben Terris from New York Magazine.
--:-- Ben Terris: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're going to talk about Senator John Fetterman. He's not like his colleagues. For starters, he wears a hoodie and gym shorts to work in Congress. But he's also a Democrat who went down to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Donald Trump before he re-entered office back in January. He's bucked most of his party on the war in Gaza, saying his support of Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu was unconditional.
--:-- Ben Terris: That's right. And he's also been very open about his mental health struggles, which is something that's been a big part of his appeal to a lot of people.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But it turns out that his health issues may be far graver than people previously thought. Ben, you wrote a big profile of John Fetterman that made a lot of noise because it revealed that his health struggles may be far graver than people previously thought.
--:-- Ben Terris: That's right. I started reporting on John Fetterman back in 2023, around the time he checked into Walter Reed Medical Center in Maryland. He had a difficult moment at a retreat for Democrats at the Library of Congress. He's supposed to be the talk of the town, and everybody wants to talk to him and get to know him, but he's sitting quietly in a corner drinking Coke and not talking to anybody.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Wow, that's a pretty vivid image.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it's a pretty striking image. And then staff gets an alert a short time later from somebody who saw him walking in the street, almost into traffic, almost getting hit by a car. And they rush to find him. They find him wandering around Capitol Hill and they bring him to George Washington University Hospital where they decide that he is severely dehydrated, not having another stroke, which was the big worry. And they prescribe him with medication for depression.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was having a really tough time.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that one incident. There were several other incidents that I reported on in my piece where he was struggling with his mental health. He was having trouble speaking, he was having trouble with his auditory processing, and he was having trouble with his medication.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling with his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling with his mental health, but also that his staff was really worried about him. They were worried that he wasn't taking his medication, that he wasn't following his recovery plan, and that he was getting worse instead of better.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like there were a lot of red flags.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that his staff was worried about him, but also that his own behavior was causing concern. He was getting into fights with his staff, he was getting into fights with other politicians, and he was making some pretty inflammatory comments on social media.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to cope with his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to cope with his mental health, but also that his mental health was affecting his job performance. He was missing meetings, he was missing votes, and he was just not showing up to work.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to do his job.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to do his job, but also that his mental health was affecting his relationships with his colleagues. He was getting into fights with his colleagues, he was getting into fights with his staff, and he was just not being able to work with people.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to get along with people.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to get along with people, but also that his mental health was affecting his relationships with his family. He was getting into fights with his family, he was getting into fights with his wife, and he was just not being able to take care of himself.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to take care of himself.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to take care of himself, but also that his mental health was affecting his ability to do his job. He was missing meetings, he was missing votes, and he was just not showing up to work.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to do his job.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to do his job, but also that his mental health was affecting his relationships with his colleagues. He was getting into fights with his colleagues, he was getting into fights with his staff, and he was just not being able to work with people.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to get along with people.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to get along with people, but also that his mental health was affecting his relationships with his family. He was getting into fights with his family, he was getting into fights with his wife, and he was just not being able to take care of himself.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to take care of himself.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to take care of himself, but also that his mental health was affecting his ability to do his job. He was missing meetings, he was missing votes, and he was just not showing up to work.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to do his job.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ben, you met with Senator Fetterman for this piece you wrote. Tell us how that meeting went.
--:-- Ben Terris: Well, it was sort of a tale of two meetings in a way. When I get there, at first, it's great. You know, Fetterman and I have this history. When I reported on him back in 2018, he told me that I was one of the few reporters who really got him at the time. And so he was excited to talk to me. And I was excited to talk to him. I mean, he's an interesting guy. And so at first, before getting into kind of the difficult parts of my reporting, I wanted to just give him the opportunity to talk about things, to talk about his place in the Democratic Party, about what it was like for him to go visit Mar-a-Lago to meet with Donald Trump, to talk about what Democrats were getting right and getting wrong. And he was kind of the old Fetterman in a way, right? I mean, he still struggles with his auditory processing. He still kind of struggles with getting sentences out exactly how he wants them to, but it's a lot better than it used to be. And he was, you know, very lucid and very excited to talk through all this stuff. And it went well.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like the meeting started off on a positive note.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that the meeting started off on a positive note, but also that Fetterman was really open and honest with me about his mental health struggles. He talked about how he's been struggling with depression and anxiety, and how he's been working to manage his symptoms.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really open and honest with you about his mental health struggles.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was open and honest with me about his mental health struggles, but also that he was really passionate about his work. He talked about how he's committed to serving his constituents, and how he's working to make a difference in their lives.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really passionate about his work.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. But then, as we started talking about his health issues, the tenor of the conversation shifted kind of dramatically. I don't think he was really expecting that. And, you know, he denies it. He says it's all disgruntled staff who have a grudge. And he won't really answer kind of the central part of the question, which is, are you on your recovery plan? Are you doing okay?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like the conversation took a turn for the worse.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that the conversation took a turn for the worse, but also that Fetterman's reaction to my piece was pretty intense. He called it a "one-source hit piece" and said that it was done with anonymous sources.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really defensive about your reporting.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was defensive about my reporting, but also that he was really dismissive of the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really dismissive of the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was dismissive of the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health, but also that he was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was focused on his own narrative about his health issues, but also that he was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health, but also that he was really focused on his own image and reputation.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really focused on his own image and reputation.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was focused on his own image and reputation, but also that he was really struggling to be honest about his mental health struggles.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to be honest about his mental health struggles.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to be honest about his mental health struggles, but also that he was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was focused on his own narrative about his health issues, but also that he was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health, but also that he was really focused on his own image and reputation.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really focused on his own image and reputation.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was focused on his own image and reputation, but also that he was really struggling to be honest about his mental health struggles.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to be honest about his mental health struggles.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was struggling to be honest about his mental health struggles, but also that he was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was focused on his own narrative about his health issues, but also that he was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ben, you mentioned that you talked to a lot of people for this story, including some of John Fetterman's former staff members. Can you tell us a little bit about what they said?
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, I talked to several former staff members who were really worried about John Fetterman's mental health. They said that he was struggling to take care of himself, that he was struggling to do his job, and that he was really struggling to get along with people.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman's former staff members were really concerned about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that they were concerned about his mental health, but also that they were really worried about the impact that it was having on his job performance.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman's former staff members were really worried about the impact that his mental health was having on his job performance.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that they were worried about the impact that his mental health was having on his job performance, but also that they were really concerned about the impact that it was having on his relationships with his colleagues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman's former staff members were really concerned about the impact that his mental health was having on his relationships with his colleagues.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that they were concerned about the impact that his mental health was having on his relationships with his colleagues, but also that they were really worried about the impact that it was having on his ability to do his job.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman's former staff members were really worried about the impact that his mental health was having on his ability to do his job.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ben, you also mentioned that John Fetterman's reaction to your piece was pretty intense. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened?
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, John Fetterman called my piece a "one-source hit piece" and said that it was done with anonymous sources. He also said that it was a "smear job" and that it was an attempt to take him down.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really defensive about your reporting.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was defensive about my reporting, but also that he was really dismissive of the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really dismissive of the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was dismissive of the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health, but also that he was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really focused on his own narrative about his health issues.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he was focused on his own narrative about his health issues, but also that he was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman was really struggling to acknowledge the concerns that his staff had raised about his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ben, you also mentioned that there was a union meeting that John Fetterman participated in that went south. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened?
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, there was a union meeting that John Fetterman participated in that went really badly. He slammed his hands down on the desk and started yelling at people, saying "Why is everybody mad at me? Why is everybody mad at me?" It was really intense.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman really lost it at that meeting.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that he lost it at that meeting, but also that it was really concerning to see him behave that way.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman's behavior at that meeting was really concerning.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that. And it's not just that his behavior at that meeting was concerning, but also that it was really indicative of the kind of struggles that he's been having with his mental health.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so it sounds like John Fetterman's behavior at that meeting was really indicative of the kind of struggles that he's been having with his mental health.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, it sounds like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ben, what do you think the implications are of John Fetterman's mental health struggles for his ability to do his job?
--:-- Ben Terris: I think it's really concerning. I think it's really concerning that he's struggling to take care of himself, that he's struggling to do his job, and that he's really struggling to get along with people. I think it's really concerning that he's not being honest about his mental health struggles, and that he's not being transparent about his health issues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so you think John Fetterman's mental health struggles are really concerning for his ability to do his job.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, I do. I think it's really concerning that he's not being honest about his mental health struggles, and that he's not being transparent about his health issues.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so you think John Fetterman's mental health struggles are really concerning for his ability to do his job.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, I do.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ben, thanks for joining us today.
--:-- Ben Terris: Thanks for having me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's all for today's show. Thanks for listening.
--:-- Ben Terris: Thanks for listening.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And if you want to hear more of our show, you can subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, you can subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And if you want to support our show, you can become a Vox Member.
--:-- Ben Terris: Yeah, you can become a Vox Member.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
--:-- Ben Terris: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
