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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Hello? Hello, Mom? Yes? Hey, listen, it's Friday. I know. There's been a lot of news this week. Tell me about it. There's been, you know, fires in Australia, unrest in the Middle East. There's been this flight that went down, the beginning of the Harvey Weinstein trial.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh my gosh, I forgot about that one, yes. That means you didn't listen to yesterday's show, Chits. I did halfway, but I did, I had something happen and I stopped listening to it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It happens to the best of us. But I think I know what news you are most excited about. Is it the royal family? It is the big news out of the royal family, yes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: My question is because you've been following this more closely than I have. Uh-huh. Do you think with all of the news we have, there's enough here to make a whole episode about with the royal family?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, of course. First of all, they want to be independent. They want to make their own money and leave the country and bring their child up the way they want to bring him up. They are not comfortable. The paparazzi is always saying things about Megan. She was never accepted into that society. She can't do anything. Like, she's having avocado toast. So they say, oh, Megan is having avocado toast.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And last night, Megan left for Canada. Where she left her baby to be... Wait, she left her baby in Canada? Why did she leave her baby in Canada?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I myself didn't know that she had left the baby until I heard that she left the baby with the nanny, with the Mulroney's, and now she's gone to be with the baby. Nobody knows the details. We'll try to get to the bottom of all this for you in today's episode, but you've got to promise that you'll listen, okay?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I will, I will, I will. I will. It's astonishing. It's momentous. It has no precedent in modern time. Prince Harry, the most popular royal after the Queen, and his American wife Meghan, issuing what amounts to a declaration of independence.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The couple issuing this personal statement today, saying that they intend to step back as senior members of the royal family. They'll split their time between the UK and North America. Queen, Kristen Meinzer, you're obsessed with Meghan and Harry. Help us cut through all the noise right now. What does this announcement really mean?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: The first part of the announcement is that they're going to step back somewhat from their senior royal duties. The second part is they want to divide their time more between North America, which is where Meghan Markle is from. Obviously, she is an American who also lived in Canada for many, many years.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And then the part three of this is they're going to change their relationship with the press. Let's go through these three things one by one, starting with their leaving their salaried positions. They're no longer going to be salaried members of the firm, if you will.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: They do show up occasionally for royal engagements. They fully support the queen. They're still in line for the throne, but they make their living outside of the firm. They receive money in order to do what is essentially diplomacy and public relations.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: They are defining what it means to be British. They are defining what it means to be royal. And in a lot of ways, they are a tourism draw. the royals supposedly, depending on what sources you look at, bring in 1.8 billion pounds per year in tourism dollars.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: People going to those royal sites and wanting to do royal tourism, look at the royal costumes and jewelry and see them out in public. So that adds up to quite a bit of money that they bring in.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do we know what like the net worth of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle is?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Yeah, there's a lot of speculation around that. Some sources say that it's as little as $29 million, which, oh my gosh. Some say it's twice that much.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I mean, he unfortunately received that money under very sad circumstances. That's an inheritance from his mother that makes up most of it. And then Meghan, of course, had a career long before she knew Harry. She was making plenty of money on her own. That suits money.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Hey, you busy? It's 7 o'clock. I'm not here because I like the view. And don't misunderstand me. When I say the view, I'm referring to your face.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's funny because I'm hideous. It suits her. Let's talk. I'm sorry. I'll stop.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Tell me more about this move. My mom let me know that Megan is already in Canada. Where are they actually going to settle? Is it going to be Montreal Miami a condo in Toronto a mansion in Wisconsin?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Well, they have ties in lots of parts of North America. Obviously, Toronto for all those years that Meghan was shooting suits there. Meghan has some very close friends there.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And that's the nation where Megan and Harry first were really, you know, established as a couple was in Canada. However, Megan's originally from California. She also has close ties to Chicago because she's a graduate of Northwestern University and she also has close ties to New York City where she has many friends and has come back many times including for her baby shower.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, nice. So we just don't really know where they're going to end up yet?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I hope she moves next door to me but I just don't think that's going to happen, unfortunately. I'm pulling for Canada. Canada could use some, you know.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think you're biased because you're from there and that's fine. That's fine. It would make my mom the happiest. Okay, let's talk about this third thing because I think this is sort of the crux of the whole matter here.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What will this changing relationship with the press look like and why is that so important to them?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: What currently exists for the British royals is something called the Royal Rota system. And it's kind of like the press corps at the White House. And this is just a select handful of press outlets that get to have the exclusive on stories.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: They get to have photos before they're published, even on Instagram. And so this select group of press outlets you would think would all be established, prestigious, legitimate, and so on.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: But it actually includes a lot of rags like the sun, gossip rags that frankly treat Meghan in particular like an enemy of the state.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have come out fighting, facing down media critics, and taking legal action against the Mail on Sunday, a British tabloid.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: In a lawsuit, the royal couple says the tabloid unlawfully edited and published a private letter, believed to be from Meghan to her estranged father, Thomas Markle.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I will always protect my family, and now I have a family to protect. and if anybody else knew what I knew, be it a father, be it a husband, be it anyone, you'd probably be doing exactly what I'm doing as well.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: They say that she's straight out of Compton. They create ties between her and terrorists. They are nothing short of racist and sexist and this is something that even when she and Harry were just courting came up again and again to the point that he made a public statement even before they were engaged.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And all of the women MPs also made a concerted effort to make this public that they don't approve of this and signed a joint letter in support of Meghan Markle.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So they no longer want to be part of the Royal Rota system. And they want to, they've said on their website, deal more directly with both grassroots press outlets and media programs and so on.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But in addition to those grassroots media outlets, they also want to deal with more established, legitimate media outlets. They don't want to be dealing with the sun anymore. They don't want to have to give their first story to the Daily Mail.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Is it their relationship with the press that kind of led them to make this decision?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Well, I'm sure it factored in. They have been vicious. It has been daily. It has been unrelenting.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I don't know what the impact on your physical and mental health or all the pressure that you clearly feel under.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Um, I would say look any woman when they're especially when they're pregnant you're really vulnerable and so that was made really challenging and then when you have a newborn you know it's a long time ago but I remember yeah you know and especially as a woman it's really it's a lot.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: So you add this on top of just trying to be a new mom or trying to be a newlywed. It's, yeah, well, I guess, and also thank you for asking, because not many people have asked if I'm okay.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: But it's a very real thing to be going through behind the scenes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There have been multiple cases of Meghan being criticized for doing exactly the same things that Kate Middleton does and is celebrated for.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For those who don't know, Kate Middleton is the wife of Prince William. Harry's older brother. Yes, that's right.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And so, for example, Meghan at one point wore wedge heels, which is, quote, breaking protocol. And yet Kate has been doing that ever since she was engaged to William.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Meghan was photographed with her hands in her pockets, which was considered disrespectful. But the Queen was photographed very recently on the front cover of a newspaper with her hands in her own pockets.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Did anyone think that that was disrespectful when the Queen did it? No.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, speaking of the Queen, how did Her Majesty react to this announcement from Meghan and her husband?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Tersely, I think would be the right word for it. It sounds as though conversations that were happening behind the scenes about this were probably quietly, slowly taking place.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And it sounds as though when the Queen's office responded about an hour after Meghan and Harry made their announcement on Instagram, yeah, it did not sound as though her office was very excited about this.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How did the public react?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Well, the public's quite divided. There are the Meghan Markle haters, which are numerous all over the UK, including the UK tabloid press, who used to criticize her for leeching off the state.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And now that she and Harry have announced that they are going to be making their own living, have now accused her of abandoning her post.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We all feel we have our inalienable personal sovereignty. But I'm afraid if you're a member of the royal family, I don't think that applies.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean it virtually a letter of resignation isn't it?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Look we can take the heat We don like it We were feeling very miserable We had six great weeks out on Vancouver Island We kind of like that
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They announced it officially on Instagram I mean I think that absolutely disgraceful I really do Because normal... To handle things in the way that they are and not take any advice, which is what they apparently are not doing, is grossly irresponsible for any royal or indeed anyone in public life.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Harry and Meghan are going to go to Canada now and they won't have any cameras outside their place. This is just an absolute farce.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But I would say stateside, there's some sadness because how sad that the abuse that she has received has been a factor in them pulling away from the crown.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's sad that that's what caused this. But there's celebration because, hey, you're going to be closer to us now to have some royalty living on our turf for a while. That's going to be fun.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So it sounds like in the UK, where these traditions are rich and storied, people are really upset. And in the United States, where we don't have a royal family and people don't really care about the royal traditions, people are open to the modernization of the British royal family?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I would say so. And I also think that in the U.S., it's easier for us to have more of a fun celebrity Disney relationship with royalty because we don't have any of our own.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And so, you know, of course, we're going to be enchanted with that over here. A lot of us are.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is there some truth to some of the things that people have said about this couple in the press? I mean, people say they're, you know, these, you know, prominent environmentalists, but they're traveling around the world in private jets all the time, of course.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Mm. Something that she herself said in the ITV documentary about their efforts in Africa during their Africa tour was that she always expected it to be difficult, but she also expected it to be fair.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And things have not been fair. Why did she expect it to be fair, though?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Because I think that she expected it to hopefully not be entirely racist all the time. She did not expect it to be lies all the time. She did not expect her mail to be stolen. She did not expect her family members to be bribed.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I think that she expected maybe the same level of abuse that Kate Middleton or Eugenie or Beatrice get, but she wasn't expecting the kind of vitriol she receives on the daily.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Listen, you know how I feel about racism, Kristen, but like when Princess Diana died in a car accident while like being chased around, my paparazzi, I would not expect good things to come of anything to do with that family.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm sorry. There are a lot of problems with the family, and I will be the first to admit it. I mean, come on, they are inbred. They groomed a teenager to be a bride. They have a sex offender who they're essentially just protecting right now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yes, there are a lot of problems in this family. And for that reason, they should be grateful there's a Meghan Markle, somebody who has outspoken, volunteering at soup kitchens all through her time while she was on suits.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So to have somebody like that in the family, you would think that the royals would be thrilled to have that. I mean, would you rather have her or Prince Andrew in your family?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Megan Barkle. But I would have been like, Megan, we love you, you're family, but you should have known these people are a little wild. Didn't you see the crown? Come on, you're now going to be the subject of the crown season 47 or whatever.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Not even season 47, like season six, right? I mean. Yes.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: But frankly, the royal family doesn't know how to deal with racism. They have zero experience dealing with racism, except for their own family members being racist sometimes.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I don't think they know how to deal with it when racist headlines are being thrown at them. And so they stayed silent through all of this. And I cannot imagine being Meghan Markle in this family, dealing with this racist abuse constantly, and nobody in your family that you married into will actually acknowledge it or speak up on your behalf.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Women don't need to find a voice. They have a voice. They need to feel empowered to use it, and people need to be encouraged to listen.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: More with Kristen in a minute. It's Today Explained.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today today explained Today explained
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Kristen is this the first time someone in this royal family said like hey let modernize this thing Let's hit F5 and refresh the thing.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Well, actually, Prince Charles has been saying for ages, he's been advocating for a more streamlined monarchy. He doesn't want the, you know, 20th in line to the throne being on the payroll anymore.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: He has said repeatedly that he would like the heir and then the heir's heirs to be the main people who are being paid, who are out on the world stage.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: He really believes that that's what the modern monarchy should be. And was that because of his kids or was that just for himself? The skeptic would say it's just because he and his kids benefit from it the most.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: But I also think it's because he sees the criticism that is railed against them from the public who say, we don't like paying to keep you in a palace. We don't want all of our tax dollars to go toward all the posh things that you get to have, dripping in jewels, flying private jets.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: We don't want you to have this huge life on our dime when a lot of us are living on the poverty line. And he also is an outspoken environmentalist, and he has been for decades now.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And I think Prince Charles sees a lot of this as wasteful.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How were his proposals to modernize the royal family received?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I think that some people really appreciate it, but I also think that some people forget that Prince Charles is ever going to be king. The queen seems like she's going to live forever.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: So Prince Charles says he would like to do this, and I think people sort of hear it, but they don't necessarily internalize it that much because Prince Charles actually is not one of the more popular royals.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A poll that was done in August by YouGov found that after the queen, the most popular royal in the family is actually Prince Harry.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So then maybe Prince Harry's attempts here to modernize will ultimately be looked at positively by the English public.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What do you think he'll try and do apart from these three things we talked about, which is get out of Dodge, ditch the salary, and have a different relationship with the press?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Oh, wow. And I assumed you live in Brooklyn. I'm sorry if I did that.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: You are correct. You know, I think that he and Meghan will be able to champion the causes that they care about without having to run them by the queen first.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And who knows what those causes will be. He has said out in the open, I am a feminist. Right.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I think they're going to talk vocally about racism. I think the British royal family is afraid to talk about racism.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: They have historically gotten onto a boat when they've landed, put a flag in the ground and said, this is ours. And that's frequently lands that belong to brown people.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: And I can see why the royal family has historically maybe been scared to talk about those things. But they need to. And when Harry and Meghan are separated from the family a little bit more, maybe they can be more on the front lines of those causes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If they do pull this off, do you think?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Oh, they will pull it off. They're going to do it. They're going to do it. There's no question.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You're a firm believer in their ability to pull this off.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Anything Meghan and Harry want to do, Meghan and Harry are going to do. You're so biased. You love them so much.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What's not to love? I mean, the whole thing, the whole song and dance, I guess, is like so much of what you're saying is that this whole system is out of whack. with like the way the world's going.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's stuck in its tradition for the sake of tradition. People can't even accept that these people want to make their own choices. It seems sort of rotten, Kristen.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Should we just say, all right, let's dissolve the thing and just be boring and have a parliament?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: No, no. You already answered your own question. Why would we want to be boring? Let's have a little magic. Let's have a little fantasy. Let's have a little bit of crazy over there that we can watch from afar. Let's enjoy it all.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So when this does become season six, let's say, of The Crown, how do you think the people will view it then?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: There have been headlines saying that perhaps he was the one trapped in the tower and needed a princess to save him.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: I think that they will celebrate Meghan and Harry and see them as one of the great modern love stories of the world.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You think season six of The Crown will be a good one?
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: Oh, it'll be the best.
--:-- Kristen Meinzer: She can play herself. Oh, man, because there's nobody else beautiful enough in the world to play her.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, that's disgusting how much you love that. And by disgusting, you mean beautiful.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, that's what I mean. Yeah, great.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Kristen Meinzer is really hoping that Meghan Markle moves to Brooklyn.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Kristen hosted a royal wedding podcast called When Meghan Met Harry, and she currently co-hosts a half-reality, half-self-help podcast called By the Book.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Ramos from This Is a Half News, Half Self-Help podcast called Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm helped by Bridget McCarthy, Amina Al-Sadi, Halima Shah, Afim Shapiro, and Noam Hasselfeld.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Noam and the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder help with music.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Olivia Ekstrom helps with fact-checking, and we're also helped by Jillian Weinberger.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She's helping us crank out podcasts in the new year, and Jillian's also now the host of The Impact from Vox.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The new season just started, you know, all those big, shiny ideas the 2020 candidates are proposing to make America more functional.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In the new season, Jillian and her team visit all the places those ideas have already been tried to find out how they worked or didn't work.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can and should listen to The Impact wherever you listen to your podcasts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The Impact and Today Explained are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you.
