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--:-- Noel King: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Noel King.
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Thanks for having me on the show, Noel.
--:-- Noel King: Today, we're talking about Russell Vought, the architect and legal scholar behind the Trump administration's attempt to reshape the federal government. Simon Rabinovich is the US economics editor for The Economist, and he's been following Vought's career closely. Simon, thanks for joining us.
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Thanks for having me, Noel.
--:-- Noel King: So, let's start with the basics. Who is Russell Vought, and how did he get to be in this position?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Well, Russell Vought is a bit of an outsider in the Trump administration. He's not one of the big-name players, but he's been incredibly influential. He's the director of the Office of Management and Budget, and he's been in that role since the beginning of the Trump administration.
--:-- Noel King: And what's his background? How did he get to this point?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Vought comes from a blue-collar background. He's the youngest of seven children, and his parents were an electrician and a schoolteacher. He grew up with a strong Christian upbringing and went to college at an evangelical Christian school.
--:-- Noel King: And how does that background shape his views on government?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Well, Vought has talked about how his Christian upbringing has influenced his views on government. He sees himself as a champion of Christian nationalism, which is a commitment to prioritizing the needs and interests of one's own country over others.
--:-- Noel King: That's a pretty radical idea. How does he plan to implement that vision?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Vought has been working on a project called Project 2025, which is a blueprint for how the Trump administration can reshape the federal government. He's written a chapter in the project about how to use the executive office of the president to strengthen the White House and assert the president's power.
--:-- Noel King: And what does that mean in practice?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: It means that Vought wants to dramatically shrink the civil service, to bend it to the president's will, and to reshape the way that the presidency operates. He's also been pushing for a full-on ban on abortion and wants to restrict immigration to favor immigrants from Christian nations.
--:-- Noel King: That's a pretty extreme agenda. How does he plan to deal with the courts, which are likely to challenge some of these policies?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Vought is confident that the courts will ultimately side with the Trump administration. He's anticipating that the executive orders and other actions will end up in the courts and ultimately at the Supreme Court.
--:-- Noel King: And what's at stake here? What's the bigger vision that Vought is trying to achieve?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Vought wants to fundamentally redraw the bounds of presidential power and bring America back to a late 19th-century version of the way that the White House could operate. He's trying to create a much stronger White House, where the president is relatively unencumbered by the bureaucracy.
--:-- Noel King: That's a pretty radical vision. How does it fit with the other players in the Trump administration, like Vice President J.D. Vance and Elon Musk?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Vought shares bits and pieces with both of them. He's suspicious of big tech, just like J.D. Vance, and he wants to shrink government, just like Elon Musk. He sees Trump and Trump's allies as battering rams to destroy the status quo in government and push through his beliefs.
--:-- Noel King: And what happens when the next time a Democrat is elected president? Has Vought thought through the implications of what he's trying to do?
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Vought believes that his role is not just to do something that's a corrective for the last four years, but to do something that's a corrective for the last century. He wants to demolish the civil service that's been built up over the last century, and he thinks that even if a Democrat is elected president, they won't be able to completely reverse everything that he's done.
--:-- Noel King: That's a pretty optimistic view. Thanks for explaining all this to us, Simon.
--:-- Simon Rabinovich: Thanks for having me, Noel.
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--:-- Noel King: That's it for today's show. Thanks for listening to Today Explained. If you want to support our show, you can become a Vox Member today. Just go to vox.com/members.
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