--:-- [Theme music fades out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained, I'm Sean Rameswaram, filling in for my friend Sean Ramos while he's on vacation.
--:-- Sam Sanders: [laughs] Happy birthday to me, folks.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: [laughs] Happy birthday, Sam. Today we're talking about Twitter, specifically about the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's right. For the longest time, Jack Dorsey has been someone who is seen but not heard. He wasn't the kind of CEO who was all over TV or in big magazine profiles.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: [chuckles] Yeah, I mean, even though I would always see his tweets, and he tweets a fair amount, I really had no idea what his voice sounds like.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Jack Dorsey was kind of the Tom from MySpace of this current tech generation. Always there, but quiet. A little over a week ago, that changed.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: Tony Rahm covers tech policy for The Washington Post. Now, we've known for a long time that social media platforms have a lot of good on them, people who are connecting over legitimate things like politics, and they have a lot of bad, like people who post racist content and people who spread disinformation, including what Russia did during the 2016 presidential election.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Alex Jones on InfoWars has done everything from attack the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting to defame Muslims and women and other minority groups.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And so these companies have been under pressure for a long time to do something about it. At times, Facebook and others have said that Jones hadn't violated their policies, but that pressure ultimately led those companies to change course just about a week ago.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We saw Spotify and Apple and Facebook start to take steps that led to Jones being kicked off of each of those platforms. Twitter was the last to do so.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But as of Wednesday, Twitter essentially had put InfoWars in timeout, which means that Alex Jones and the InfoWars accounts aren't able to tweet for the next seven days.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Timeout sounds like a slap on the wrist and not a real long-term fix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's what a lot of people say. They would like to see Twitter kick Alex Jones and Infowars off the platform entirely.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But this really speaks to the heart of the problem here, which is that Twitter and some of these other companies don't want to be the arbiters of speech. They don't want to be the ones deciding what's right and what's wrong.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And they truly believe that better content, things that aren't as inflammatory, things that aren't as offensive, will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
--:-- Tony Rahm: So with Twitter, ultimately the company found that Alex Jones and Infowars generally might be posting repugnant things, but it wasn't their place to take it down. Unless they did specific things, which was, you know, for instance, threatening violence.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And that's exactly what happened here. The reason why Twitter put Alex Jones and Infowars in timeout was because of a video that they recorded on Periscope.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We're under attack and you know that you've pointed out mainstream media is the enemy, but now it's time to act on the enemy. Where essentially Alex Jones was threatening violence against the mainstream media and the left.
--:-- Sam Sanders: People need to have their battle rifles and everything ready at their bedsides. And you got to be ready.
--:-- Tony Rahm: That was what Twitter said was too far. And that's why these folks are in timeout.
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, I mean, to hear you say this, one, Alex Jones gets a timeout for seeming to incite violence against the mainstream media. But our commander in chief, Donald Trump, has done so before, too.
--:-- Tony Rahm: He's not timeouted. And this is actually something that we raised when we sat down with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey just earlier Wednesday.
--:-- Sam Sanders: One of the big issues that Twitter has faced are the fact that the president has attacked his opponents.
--:-- Tony Rahm: President Trump tweeting out this video over the weekend, showing him in an old WWE clip. But in this version, you can see he is body slamming CNN.
--:-- Sam Sanders: He just a few days ago called Omarosa, who recently penned a tell all book from her time at the White House. He called her a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But when you ask Dorsey about it, what he says is that there's essentially an exception for public figures.
--:-- Sam Sanders: You don't make a distinction, however, you know, over policy talking about taxes or tariffs versus calling a person a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We make an understanding of who is actually saying that and whether they are a global leader whether they are a public figure and whether this is something that should be reported on and should be talked about.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That the benefits of knowing how our leaders think what they think about issues and what they think about the people around them outweigh the need to police exactly what he saying.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, Johnny, at the top of the show, you mentioned that we're going to talk about Henry's toothbrushing experience with the Quip electric toothbrush.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Yeah, that's right. Henry's always been more amiable to teeth brushing. And he's just not as contrarian as Oliver.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Okay. Where's the tension? We need tension in each one of these vignettes.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Hey, y'all. I'm Sam Sanders, not Sean Ramos from, I know. Usually I host my own show. It's called It's Been a Minute. It's from NPR. Check it out.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But today I am hosting Sean's show while he is out on a little vacay. All right, let's begin. Today we're going to talk Twitter.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Specifically about the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey. For the longest time, Jack Dorsey has been someone who is seen but not heard.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, I mean, even though I would always see his tweets, and he tweets a fair amount, I really had no idea what his voice sounds like.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Jack Dorsey was kind of the Tom from MySpace of this current tech generation. Always there, but quiet. A little over a week ago, that changed.
--:-- Sam Sanders: A little over a week ago, that changed. All of a sudden, Jack Dorsey spoke.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Thank you, Sean, first for the opportunity to talk with your listeners and also getting a picture of the complexities that we're facing.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And then he spoke some more. We're looking at our current policies and evolving our policies under the changing circumstances that we see around us.
--:-- Johnny Harris: He's still talking. Jack Dorsey going on somewhat, I'm an apology tour, Because he has to. On the right and the left right now, it seems everyone is saying Twitter has to clean up its act when it comes to speech on the platform, when it comes to who gets to be on the platform, when it comes to who's even real on the platform.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, it sort of feels like a very critical turning point for the whole of the tech industry.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Tony Rahm covers tech policy for The Washington Post. Now, we've known for a long time that social media platforms have a lot of good on them, people who are connecting over legitimate things like politics, and they have a lot of bad, like people who post racist content and people who spread disinformation, including what Russia did during the 2016 presidential election.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Alex Jones on InfoWars has done everything from attack the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting to defame Muslims and women and other minority groups.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And so these companies have been under pressure for a long time to do something about it. At times, Facebook and others have said that Jones hadn't violated their policies, but that pressure ultimately led those companies to change course just about a week ago.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We saw Spotify and Apple and Facebook start to take steps that led to Jones being kicked off of each of those platforms. Twitter was the last to do so.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But as of Wednesday, Twitter essentially had put InfoWars in timeout, which means that Alex Jones and the InfoWars accounts aren't able to tweet for the next seven days.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Timeout sounds like a slap on the wrist and not a real long-term fix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's what a lot of people say. They would like to see Twitter kick Alex Jones and Infowars off the platform entirely.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But this really speaks to the heart of the problem here, which is that Twitter and some of these other companies don't want to be the arbiters of speech. They don't want to be the ones deciding what's right and what's wrong.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And they truly believe that better content, things that aren't as inflammatory, things that aren't as offensive, will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
--:-- Tony Rahm: So with Twitter, ultimately the company found that Alex Jones and Infowars generally might be posting repugnant things, but it wasn't their place to take it down. Unless they did specific things, which was, you know, for instance, threatening violence.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And that's exactly what happened here. The reason why Twitter put Alex Jones and Infowars in timeout was because of a video that they recorded on Periscope.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We're under attack and you know that you've pointed out mainstream media is the enemy, but now it's time to act on the enemy. Where essentially Alex Jones was threatening violence against the mainstream media and the left.
--:-- Sam Sanders: People need to have their battle rifles and everything ready at their bedsides. And you got to be ready.
--:-- Tony Rahm: That was what Twitter said was too far. And that's why these folks are in timeout.
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, I mean, to hear you say this, one, Alex Jones gets a timeout for seeming to incite violence against the mainstream media. But our commander in chief, Donald Trump, has done so before, too.
--:-- Tony Rahm: He's not timeouted. And this is actually something that we raised when we sat down with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey just earlier Wednesday.
--:-- Sam Sanders: One of the big issues that Twitter has faced are the fact that the president has attacked his opponents.
--:-- Tony Rahm: President Trump tweeting out this video over the weekend, showing him in an old WWE clip. But in this version, you can see he is body slamming CNN.
--:-- Sam Sanders: He just a few days ago called Omarosa, who recently penned a tell all book from her time at the White House. He called her a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But when you ask Dorsey about it, what he says is that there's essentially an exception for public figures.
--:-- Sam Sanders: You don't make a distinction, however, you know, over policy talking about taxes or tariffs versus calling a person a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We make an understanding of who is actually saying that and whether they are a global leader whether they are a public figure and whether this is something that should be reported on and should be talked about.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That the benefits of knowing how our leaders think what they think about issues and what they think about the people around them outweigh the need to police exactly what he saying.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, Johnny, at the top of the show, you mentioned that we're going to talk about Henry's toothbrushing experience with the Quip electric toothbrush.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Yeah, that's right. Henry's always been more amiable to teeth brushing. And he's just not as contrarian as Oliver.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Okay. Where's the tension? We need tension in each one of these vignettes.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Hey, y'all. I'm Sam Sanders, not Sean Ramos from, I know. Usually I host my own show. It's called It's Been a Minute. It's from NPR. Check it out.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But today I am hosting Sean's show while he is out on a little vacay. All right, let's begin. Today we're going to talk Twitter.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Specifically about the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey. For the longest time, Jack Dorsey has been someone who is seen but not heard.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, I mean, even though I would always see his tweets, and he tweets a fair amount, I really had no idea what his voice sounds like.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Jack Dorsey was kind of the Tom from MySpace of this current tech generation. Always there, but quiet. A little over a week ago, that changed.
--:-- Sam Sanders: A little over a week ago, that changed. All of a sudden, Jack Dorsey spoke.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Thank you, Sean, first for the opportunity to talk with your listeners and also getting a picture of the complexities that we're facing.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And then he spoke some more. We're looking at our current policies and evolving our policies under the changing circumstances that we see around us.
--:-- Johnny Harris: He's still talking. Jack Dorsey going on somewhat, I'm an apology tour, Because he has to. On the right and the left right now, it seems everyone is saying Twitter has to clean up its act when it comes to speech on the platform, when it comes to who gets to be on the platform, when it comes to who's even real on the platform.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, it sort of feels like a very critical turning point for the whole of the tech industry.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Tony Rahm covers tech policy for The Washington Post. Now, we've known for a long time that social media platforms have a lot of good on them, people who are connecting over legitimate things like politics, and they have a lot of bad, like people who post racist content and people who spread disinformation, including what Russia did during the 2016 presidential election.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Alex Jones on InfoWars has done everything from attack the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting to defame Muslims and women and other minority groups.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And so these companies have been under pressure for a long time to do something about it. At times, Facebook and others have said that Jones hadn't violated their policies, but that pressure ultimately led those companies to change course just about a week ago.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We saw Spotify and Apple and Facebook start to take steps that led to Jones being kicked off of each of those platforms. Twitter was the last to do so.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But as of Wednesday, Twitter essentially had put InfoWars in timeout, which means that Alex Jones and the InfoWars accounts aren't able to tweet for the next seven days.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Timeout sounds like a slap on the wrist and not a real long-term fix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's what a lot of people say. They would like to see Twitter kick Alex Jones and Infowars off the platform entirely.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But this really speaks to the heart of the problem here, which is that Twitter and some of these other companies don't want to be the arbiters of speech. They don't want to be the ones deciding what's right and what's wrong.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And they truly believe that better content, things that aren't as inflammatory, things that aren't as offensive, will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
--:-- Tony Rahm: So with Twitter, ultimately the company found that Alex Jones and Infowars generally might be posting repugnant things, but it wasn't their place to take it down. Unless they did specific things, which was, you know, for instance, threatening violence.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And that's exactly what happened here. The reason why Twitter put Alex Jones and Infowars in timeout was because of a video that they recorded on Periscope.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We're under attack and you know that you've pointed out mainstream media is the enemy, but now it's time to act on the enemy. Where essentially Alex Jones was threatening violence against the mainstream media and the left.
--:-- Sam Sanders: People need to have their battle rifles and everything ready at their bedsides. And you got to be ready.
--:-- Tony Rahm: That was what Twitter said was too far. And that's why these folks are in timeout.
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, I mean, to hear you say this, one, Alex Jones gets a timeout for seeming to incite violence against the mainstream media. But our commander in chief, Donald Trump, has done so before, too.
--:-- Tony Rahm: He's not timeouted. And this is actually something that we raised when we sat down with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey just earlier Wednesday.
--:-- Sam Sanders: One of the big issues that Twitter has faced are the fact that the president has attacked his opponents.
--:-- Tony Rahm: President Trump tweeting out this video over the weekend, showing him in an old WWE clip. But in this version, you can see he is body slamming CNN.
--:-- Sam Sanders: He just a few days ago called Omarosa, who recently penned a tell all book from her time at the White House. He called her a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But when you ask Dorsey about it, what he says is that there's essentially an exception for public figures.
--:-- Sam Sanders: You don't make a distinction, however, you know, over policy talking about taxes or tariffs versus calling a person a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We make an understanding of who is actually saying that and whether they are a global leader whether they are a public figure and whether this is something that should be reported on and should be talked about.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That the benefits of knowing how our leaders think what they think about issues and what they think about the people around them outweigh the need to police exactly what he saying.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, Johnny, at the top of the show, you mentioned that we're going to talk about Henry's toothbrushing experience with the Quip electric toothbrush.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Yeah, that's right. Henry's always been more amiable to teeth brushing. And he's just not as contrarian as Oliver.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Okay. Where's the tension? We need tension in each one of these vignettes.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Hey, y'all. I'm Sam Sanders, not Sean Ramos from, I know. Usually I host my own show. It's called It's Been a Minute. It's from NPR. Check it out.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But today I am hosting Sean's show while he is out on a little vacay. All right, let's begin. Today we're going to talk Twitter.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Specifically about the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey. For the longest time, Jack Dorsey has been someone who is seen but not heard.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, I mean, even though I would always see his tweets, and he tweets a fair amount, I really had no idea what his voice sounds like.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Jack Dorsey was kind of the Tom from MySpace of this current tech generation. Always there, but quiet. A little over a week ago, that changed.
--:-- Sam Sanders: A little over a week ago, that changed. All of a sudden, Jack Dorsey spoke.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Thank you, Sean, first for the opportunity to talk with your listeners and also getting a picture of the complexities that we're facing.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And then he spoke some more. We're looking at our current policies and evolving our policies under the changing circumstances that we see around us.
--:-- Johnny Harris: He's still talking. Jack Dorsey going on somewhat, I'm an apology tour, Because he has to. On the right and the left right now, it seems everyone is saying Twitter has to clean up its act when it comes to speech on the platform, when it comes to who gets to be on the platform, when it comes to who's even real on the platform.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, it sort of feels like a very critical turning point for the whole of the tech industry.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Tony Rahm covers tech policy for The Washington Post. Now, we've known for a long time that social media platforms have a lot of good on them, people who are connecting over legitimate things like politics, and they have a lot of bad, like people who post racist content and people who spread disinformation, including what Russia did during the 2016 presidential election.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Alex Jones on InfoWars has done everything from attack the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting to defame Muslims and women and other minority groups.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And so these companies have been under pressure for a long time to do something about it. At times, Facebook and others have said that Jones hadn't violated their policies, but that pressure ultimately led those companies to change course just about a week ago.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We saw Spotify and Apple and Facebook start to take steps that led to Jones being kicked off of each of those platforms. Twitter was the last to do so.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But as of Wednesday, Twitter essentially had put InfoWars in timeout, which means that Alex Jones and the InfoWars accounts aren't able to tweet for the next seven days.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Timeout sounds like a slap on the wrist and not a real long-term fix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's what a lot of people say. They would like to see Twitter kick Alex Jones and Infowars off the platform entirely.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But this really speaks to the heart of the problem here, which is that Twitter and some of these other companies don't want to be the arbiters of speech. They don't want to be the ones deciding what's right and what's wrong.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And they truly believe that better content, things that aren't as inflammatory, things that aren't as offensive, will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
--:-- Tony Rahm: So with Twitter, ultimately the company found that Alex Jones and Infowars generally might be posting repugnant things, but it wasn't their place to take it down. Unless they did specific things, which was, you know, for instance, threatening violence.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And that's exactly what happened here. The reason why Twitter put Alex Jones and Infowars in timeout was because of a video that they recorded on Periscope.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We're under attack and you know that you've pointed out mainstream media is the enemy, but now it's time to act on the enemy. Where essentially Alex Jones was threatening violence against the mainstream media and the left.
--:-- Sam Sanders: People need to have their battle rifles and everything ready at their bedsides. And you got to be ready.
--:-- Tony Rahm: That was what Twitter said was too far. And that's why these folks are in timeout.
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, I mean, to hear you say this, one, Alex Jones gets a timeout for seeming to incite violence against the mainstream media. But our commander in chief, Donald Trump, has done so before, too.
--:-- Tony Rahm: He's not timeouted. And this is actually something that we raised when we sat down with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey just earlier Wednesday.
--:-- Sam Sanders: One of the big issues that Twitter has faced are the fact that the president has attacked his opponents.
--:-- Tony Rahm: President Trump tweeting out this video over the weekend, showing him in an old WWE clip. But in this version, you can see he is body slamming CNN.
--:-- Sam Sanders: He just a few days ago called Omarosa, who recently penned a tell all book from her time at the White House. He called her a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But when you ask Dorsey about it, what he says is that there's essentially an exception for public figures.
--:-- Sam Sanders: You don't make a distinction, however, you know, over policy talking about taxes or tariffs versus calling a person a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We make an understanding of who is actually saying that and whether they are a global leader whether they are a public figure and whether this is something that should be reported on and should be talked about.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That the benefits of knowing how our leaders think what they think about issues and what they think about the people around them outweigh the need to police exactly what he saying.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, Johnny, at the top of the show, you mentioned that we're going to talk about Henry's toothbrushing experience with the Quip electric toothbrush.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Yeah, that's right. Henry's always been more amiable to teeth brushing. And he's just not as contrarian as Oliver.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Okay. Where's the tension? We need tension in each one of these vignettes.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Hey, y'all. I'm Sam Sanders, not Sean Ramos from, I know. Usually I host my own show. It's called It's Been a Minute. It's from NPR. Check it out.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But today I am hosting Sean's show while he is out on a little vacay. All right, let's begin. Today we're going to talk Twitter.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Specifically about the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey. For the longest time, Jack Dorsey has been someone who is seen but not heard.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, I mean, even though I would always see his tweets, and he tweets a fair amount, I really had no idea what his voice sounds like.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Jack Dorsey was kind of the Tom from MySpace of this current tech generation. Always there, but quiet. A little over a week ago, that changed.
--:-- Sam Sanders: A little over a week ago, that changed. All of a sudden, Jack Dorsey spoke.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Thank you, Sean, first for the opportunity to talk with your listeners and also getting a picture of the complexities that we're facing.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And then he spoke some more. We're looking at our current policies and evolving our policies under the changing circumstances that we see around us.
--:-- Johnny Harris: He's still talking. Jack Dorsey going on somewhat, I'm an apology tour, Because he has to. On the right and the left right now, it seems everyone is saying Twitter has to clean up its act when it comes to speech on the platform, when it comes to who gets to be on the platform, when it comes to who's even real on the platform.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, it sort of feels like a very critical turning point for the whole of the tech industry.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Tony Rahm covers tech policy for The Washington Post. Now, we've known for a long time that social media platforms have a lot of good on them, people who are connecting over legitimate things like politics, and they have a lot of bad, like people who post racist content and people who spread disinformation, including what Russia did during the 2016 presidential election.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Alex Jones on InfoWars has done everything from attack the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting to defame Muslims and women and other minority groups.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And so these companies have been under pressure for a long time to do something about it. At times, Facebook and others have said that Jones hadn't violated their policies, but that pressure ultimately led those companies to change course just about a week ago.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We saw Spotify and Apple and Facebook start to take steps that led to Jones being kicked off of each of those platforms. Twitter was the last to do so.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But as of Wednesday, Twitter essentially had put InfoWars in timeout, which means that Alex Jones and the InfoWars accounts aren't able to tweet for the next seven days.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Timeout sounds like a slap on the wrist and not a real long-term fix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's what a lot of people say. They would like to see Twitter kick Alex Jones and Infowars off the platform entirely.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But this really speaks to the heart of the problem here, which is that Twitter and some of these other companies don't want to be the arbiters of speech. They don't want to be the ones deciding what's right and what's wrong.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And they truly believe that better content, things that aren't as inflammatory, things that aren't as offensive, will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
--:-- Tony Rahm: So with Twitter, ultimately the company found that Alex Jones and Infowars generally might be posting repugnant things, but it wasn't their place to take it down. Unless they did specific things, which was, you know, for instance, threatening violence.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And that's exactly what happened here. The reason why Twitter put Alex Jones and Infowars in timeout was because of a video that they recorded on Periscope.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We're under attack and you know that you've pointed out mainstream media is the enemy, but now it's time to act on the enemy. Where essentially Alex Jones was threatening violence against the mainstream media and the left.
--:-- Sam Sanders: People need to have their battle rifles and everything ready at their bedsides. And you got to be ready.
--:-- Tony Rahm: That was what Twitter said was too far. And that's why these folks are in timeout.
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, I mean, to hear you say this, one, Alex Jones gets a timeout for seeming to incite violence against the mainstream media. But our commander in chief, Donald Trump, has done so before, too.
--:-- Tony Rahm: He's not timeouted. And this is actually something that we raised when we sat down with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey just earlier Wednesday.
--:-- Sam Sanders: One of the big issues that Twitter has faced are the fact that the president has attacked his opponents.
--:-- Tony Rahm: President Trump tweeting out this video over the weekend, showing him in an old WWE clip. But in this version, you can see he is body slamming CNN.
--:-- Sam Sanders: He just a few days ago called Omarosa, who recently penned a tell all book from her time at the White House. He called her a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But when you ask Dorsey about it, what he says is that there's essentially an exception for public figures.
--:-- Sam Sanders: You don't make a distinction, however, you know, over policy talking about taxes or tariffs versus calling a person a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We make an understanding of who is actually saying that and whether they are a global leader whether they are a public figure and whether this is something that should be reported on and should be talked about.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That the benefits of knowing how our leaders think what they think about issues and what they think about the people around them outweigh the need to police exactly what he saying.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, Johnny, at the top of the show, you mentioned that we're going to talk about Henry's toothbrushing experience with the Quip electric toothbrush.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Yeah, that's right. Henry's always been more amiable to teeth brushing. And he's just not as contrarian as Oliver.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Okay. Where's the tension? We need tension in each one of these vignettes.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Hey, y'all. I'm Sam Sanders, not Sean Ramos from, I know. Usually I host my own show. It's called It's Been a Minute. It's from NPR. Check it out.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But today I am hosting Sean's show while he is out on a little vacay. All right, let's begin. Today we're going to talk Twitter.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Specifically about the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey. For the longest time, Jack Dorsey has been someone who is seen but not heard.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, I mean, even though I would always see his tweets, and he tweets a fair amount, I really had no idea what his voice sounds like.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Jack Dorsey was kind of the Tom from MySpace of this current tech generation. Always there, but quiet. A little over a week ago, that changed.
--:-- Sam Sanders: A little over a week ago, that changed. All of a sudden, Jack Dorsey spoke.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Thank you, Sean, first for the opportunity to talk with your listeners and also getting a picture of the complexities that we're facing.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And then he spoke some more. We're looking at our current policies and evolving our policies under the changing circumstances that we see around us.
--:-- Johnny Harris: He's still talking. Jack Dorsey going on somewhat, I'm an apology tour, Because he has to. On the right and the left right now, it seems everyone is saying Twitter has to clean up its act when it comes to speech on the platform, when it comes to who gets to be on the platform, when it comes to who's even real on the platform.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Yeah, it sort of feels like a very critical turning point for the whole of the tech industry.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Tony Rahm covers tech policy for The Washington Post. Now, we've known for a long time that social media platforms have a lot of good on them, people who are connecting over legitimate things like politics, and they have a lot of bad, like people who post racist content and people who spread disinformation, including what Russia did during the 2016 presidential election.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Alex Jones on InfoWars has done everything from attack the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting to defame Muslims and women and other minority groups.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And so these companies have been under pressure for a long time to do something about it. At times, Facebook and others have said that Jones hadn't violated their policies, but that pressure ultimately led those companies to change course just about a week ago.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We saw Spotify and Apple and Facebook start to take steps that led to Jones being kicked off of each of those platforms. Twitter was the last to do so.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But as of Wednesday, Twitter essentially had put InfoWars in timeout, which means that Alex Jones and the InfoWars accounts aren't able to tweet for the next seven days.
--:-- Tony Rahm: Timeout sounds like a slap on the wrist and not a real long-term fix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
--:-- Sam Sanders: That's what a lot of people say. They would like to see Twitter kick Alex Jones and Infowars off the platform entirely.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But this really speaks to the heart of the problem here, which is that Twitter and some of these other companies don't want to be the arbiters of speech. They don't want to be the ones deciding what's right and what's wrong.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And they truly believe that better content, things that aren't as inflammatory, things that aren't as offensive, will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of ideas.
--:-- Tony Rahm: So with Twitter, ultimately the company found that Alex Jones and Infowars generally might be posting repugnant things, but it wasn't their place to take it down. Unless they did specific things, which was, you know, for instance, threatening violence.
--:-- Sam Sanders: And that's exactly what happened here. The reason why Twitter put Alex Jones and Infowars in timeout was because of a video that they recorded on Periscope.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We're under attack and you know that you've pointed out mainstream media is the enemy, but now it's time to act on the enemy. Where essentially Alex Jones was threatening violence against the mainstream media and the left.
--:-- Sam Sanders: People need to have their battle rifles and everything ready at their bedsides. And you got to be ready.
--:-- Tony Rahm: That was what Twitter said was too far. And that's why these folks are in timeout.
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, I mean, to hear you say this, one, Alex Jones gets a timeout for seeming to incite violence against the mainstream media. But our commander in chief, Donald Trump, has done so before, too.
--:-- Tony Rahm: He's not timeouted. And this is actually something that we raised when we sat down with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey just earlier Wednesday.
--:-- Sam Sanders: One of the big issues that Twitter has faced are the fact that the president has attacked his opponents.
--:-- Tony Rahm: President Trump tweeting out this video over the weekend, showing him in an old WWE clip. But in this version, you can see he is body slamming CNN.
--:-- Sam Sanders: He just a few days ago called Omarosa, who recently penned a tell all book from her time at the White House. He called her a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: But when you ask Dorsey about it, what he says is that there's essentially an exception for public figures.
--:-- Sam Sanders: You don't make a distinction, however, you know, over policy talking about taxes or tariffs versus calling a person a dog.
--:-- Tony Rahm: We make an understanding of who is actually saying that and whether they are a global leader whether they are a public figure and whether this is something that should be reported on and should be talked about.
--:-- Sam Sanders: That the benefits of knowing how our leaders think what they think about issues and what they think about the people around them outweigh the need to police exactly what he saying.
--:-- [Music transitions to a new segment]
--:-- Sam Sanders: So, Johnny, at the top of the show, you mentioned that we're going to talk about Henry's toothbrushing experience with the Quip electric toothbrush.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Yeah, that's right. Henry's always been more amiable to teeth brushing. And he's just not as contrarian as Oliver.
--:-- Sam Sanders: Okay. Where's the tension? We need tension in each one of these vignettes.
--:-- Johnny Harris: Hey, y'all. I'm Sam Sanders, not Sean Ramos from, I know. Usually I host my own show. It's called It's Been a Minute. It's from NPR. Check it out.
--:-- Sam Sanders: But today I am hosting Sean's show while he is out on a little vac
