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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Andrew Mark Cuomo resigned today. In about two weeks, he'll no longer be the governor of New York.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's a pretty huge moment for the state, but also a not insignificant one for the country. David Friedlander, contributing writer for New York Magazine. How did we get here?
--:-- David Friedlander: Today, I think the governor saw the writing on the wall and realized he couldn't go forward.
--:-- David Friedlander: Andrew Cuomo is the decade-long governor of New York State. He comes from the most famous political family in New York. The Cuomos are the sort of Kennedys of New York.
--:-- David Friedlander: He has ruled over Albany with an iron fist for the past 10 years or so. And finally, today, he resigned after numerous corroborated allegations of sexual harassment came out in a report by the state attorney general, Letitia James, a report that Andrew Cuomo himself asked for.
--:-- David Friedlander: So he asks his attorney general to conduct a fair, impartial investigation into the allegations against himself. That's correct.
--:-- David Friedlander: And to be clear, you know, Tish James, the attorney general, was elected on her own, but was Andrew Cuomo's handpicked attorney general.
--:-- David Friedlander: Also worth noting, another little wrinkle in the story is before he was governor, Andrew Cuomo was attorney general. Through his own powers of that office, he helped run out both the governor and then the governor's replacement, Elliot Spitzer and David Patterson.
--:-- David Friedlander: So he is someone who would be very aware of the powers of the attorney general's office.
--:-- David Friedlander: What happens in the interim between him asking for this investigation and the final report? I think that he really tried to kind of like get back to the people's business.
--:-- David Friedlander: You would sort of see him. He would hold press conferences, although they were kind of press conferences without the press. They were very controlled.
--:-- David Friedlander: The vaccine is the weapon that wins the war. Great. He made sure that he was not asked any kind of awkward questions.
--:-- David Friedlander: He had a very kind of circumscribed schedule. But he would be with supporters and talking about COVID recovery, economic recovery, how New York was coming back.
--:-- David Friedlander: You get knocked on your rear end. Do you just sit there or do you get up? If you're a real New Yorker, you get up.
--:-- David Friedlander: And there wasn't a lot of chatter about what was going on with this investigation.
--:-- David Friedlander: The State Assembly, which is the sort of House of Representatives here in New York, They were also conducting their own investigation into both these sexual harassment allegations and into some other charges.
--:-- David Friedlander: Andrew Cuomo signed a multimillion dollar book deal to talk about his own sort of response to the COVID crisis here in New York.
--:-- David Friedlander: There's some questions about whether staff was used on that. Also about how they handled COVID in nursing homes back at the height of the crisis last year.
--:-- David Friedlander: And so, you know, the business of state government kind of went on as everyone waited for this report to come out.
--:-- David Friedlander: I think most people thought that this report would not amount to that much, that Cuomo had kind of weathered this crisis and that he was moving on and the state was moving on.
--:-- David Friedlander: And then the report comes out. And then the report comes out.
--:-- David Friedlander: Good morning. It was not a bombshell. It was a daisy cutter.
--:-- David Friedlander: The investigation found that Governor Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed current and former New York state employees by engaging in unwelcome and non-consensual touching and making numerous offensive comments of a suggestive and sexual nature that created a hostile work environment for women.
--:-- David Friedlander: It was 168 pages. There were 11 women detailing numerous examples of sexual harassment, including some very disturbing details about a state trooper who was part of the governor's protective detail who said that she was sexually harassed by the governor.
--:-- David Friedlander: In an elevator, while standing behind the trooper, he ran his finger from her neck down her spine and said, hey, you.
--:-- David Friedlander: Another time, she was standing holding the door open for the governor. As he passed, he took his open hand and ran it across her stomach from her belly button to the hip where she keeps her gun.
--:-- David Friedlander: It included new details about an executive assistant who was alone with the governor in the governor's mansion who said that the governor had groped her.
--:-- David Friedlander: It also detailed how the governor's office was orienting around retaliating against some of these accusers when the allegations first came out and seemed to be involved with protecting the governor in some of these interactions.
--:-- David Friedlander: Governor Cuomo's administration fostered a toxic workplace that enabled harassment and created a hostile work environment.
--:-- David Friedlander: How does the governor defend himself against these allegations in the report that he called for?
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, when the report came out, he said, well, you didn't hear my side of the story, really.
--:-- David Friedlander: I want you to know directly from me that I never touched anyone inappropriately or made inappropriate sexual advances.
--:-- David Friedlander: And what he said was, I think it's something we're kind of used to hearing at this point, you know, which is that, oh, all of this was innocent.
--:-- David Friedlander: It was playful. This is how I talk to people. I do kiss people on the forehead. I do kiss people on the cheek. I do kiss people on the hand. I do embrace people.
--:-- David Friedlander: He put together some kind of slideshow featuring different shots of himself feeling up half the free world.
--:-- David Friedlander: It was a bizarre video. I mean, it showed Andrew Cuomo hugging, kissing, getting kind of touchy-feely with people great and small.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, you know, he was sort of Bill Clinton, Al Gore to the kind of, you know, lowliest citizen of New York.
--:-- David Friedlander: Somebody who, you know, had just recovered from some hurricane in her neighborhood or something.
--:-- David Friedlander: And there he was embracing her kind of thing.
--:-- David Friedlander: It seemed like a governor who was really floundering, I think, at the time to really show people that like, oh, no, I wasn't sexually harassing them.
--:-- David Friedlander: This is just sort of how I am with people.
--:-- David Friedlander: Beyond that, does he try to discredit the investigation?
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, sure. I mean, they've been doing that really for the weeks leading up to it, saying that Tish James, the attorney general, is politically motivated, that she wants his job, that all these other people are sort of a conspiracy against him, that the assembly who is investigating him with these allegations or with other allegations, that they're politically motivated.
--:-- David Friedlander: For those who are using this moment to score political points or seek publicity or personal gain, I say they actually discredit the legitimate sexual harassment victims that the law was designed to protect.
--:-- David Friedlander: They've always, from the sort of beginning, said that this was all politics and there's all these people that were out to get him.
--:-- David Friedlander: How does that argument land with the people of New York, with politicians in the state and beyond?
--:-- David Friedlander: I don't think it lands very well.
--:-- David Friedlander: And it also, you know, I mean, I think it's worth noting, like, it wouldn't change anything, right?
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, if you're sexually harassed, or in some cases worse, groped by the governor, whether you're his enemy or not doesn't really matter.
--:-- David Friedlander: The facts kind of remain the same.
--:-- David Friedlander: So I think it was sort of widely mocked.
--:-- David Friedlander: And no one really saw how he could ever survive this, except for Andrew Cuomo, who, you know, has sort of survived everything.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, he's sort of famously developed this reputation as a kind of political shark who constantly outwits his enemies.
--:-- David Friedlander: And this is in the face of amounting calls for his resignation, including one from President Biden.
--:-- David Friedlander: Are you now calling on him to resign?
--:-- David Friedlander: Yes.
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, look, I mean, going back six months ago, almost everybody in the New York political world, the Democratic Party political universe called for Andrew Cuomo's resignation.
--:-- David Friedlander: This is back in March.
--:-- David Friedlander: And he just ignored them.
--:-- David Friedlander: Almost the entire congressional delegation said he should resign.
--:-- David Friedlander: Most of the Democrats in the legislature said he should resign.
--:-- David Friedlander: The really only people that didn't were a handful of local members of Congress who he's close to.
--:-- David Friedlander: Joe Biden hadn't said anything.
--:-- David Friedlander: The head of the state Democratic Party hadn't said anything.
--:-- David Friedlander: Over the past couple weeks, all of them all came out as soon as this report was released and said, Andrew Cuomo, it's time for you to go.
--:-- David Friedlander: The gig is up.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can say yes to that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Far too many of us are stuck in a job we outgrown or one we never wanted in the first place.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But still we stick it out.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And we give reasons like what if the next move is even worse?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've already put years into this place.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So David, Andrew Cuomo announced this afternoon that he was resigning from office.
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, I think there was just no other room to maneuver.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, this is a guy who's always kind of made his own weather here in New York politics.
--:-- David Friedlander: I think he was trying to buy time, looking for the sort of winds to change, so to speak, and hoping his luck would change.
--:-- David Friedlander: But the state assembly was moving forward with an impeachment inquiry, and they just sounded implacable.
--:-- David Friedlander: People want to see this happen very quickly.
--:-- David Friedlander: The majority conference wants to see this happen very quickly.
--:-- David Friedlander: But we need to recognize this is a legal process.
--:-- David Friedlander: There's thousands of pages of documents that need to be reviewed.
--:-- David Friedlander: And we want to make sure that we get this right.
--:-- David Friedlander: Unlike in the federal system, once a president's speech, there's a trial in the Senate.
--:-- David Friedlander: Here, there's still the trial in the Senate, but the governor has to leave office.
--:-- David Friedlander: So the lieutenant governor would automatically become the governor while that trial went on.
--:-- David Friedlander: Plus, the governor would have to leave the governor's mansion.
--:-- David Friedlander: Andrew Cuomo recently split up from his longtime girlfriend, the food television personality, Sandra Lee.
--:-- David Friedlander: She sold the house they lived in in Westchester County.
--:-- David Friedlander: And so it was unclear where he would even be living while the Senate trial went on.
--:-- David Friedlander: Andrew Cuomo would be experiencing homelessness?
--:-- David Friedlander: I think he would have the resources probably to figure something out.
--:-- David Friedlander: But he would not be allowed to be in the governor's mansion and he would not be the governor while the Senate trial went on.
--:-- David Friedlander: And I think just a sort of humiliation of that was something he wanted to avoid.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He had his lawyer come out first, and she didn't take any questions.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It was just done over the web.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And she went through and refuted the allegations, said how they weren't true, said how they were misinterpreted.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The governor had no opportunity to respond, and a press cycle ensued.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And journalists were saying things that he had groped and that he had fondled 11 women.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that wasn't true and that wasn't in the report.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then he had a separate event, again, without press present, just streamed online, in which he much said the same thing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then at the end of it said that sort of in the best interest of the state of New York, a state I've always served, a state I've always cared about, I think this would be costly and distracting and we don't have time or money for this, and so I'm going to resign.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The best way I can help now is if I step aside and let government get back to governing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And therefore, that's what I'll do.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Because I work for you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And doing the right thing is doing the right thing for you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So he's leaving office in 14 days, I believe.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What are the next two weeks going to look like for him? Do we know?
--:-- David Friedlander: I think that's sort of in order to give his lieutenant governor, Kathy Hochul, a bit of a transition.
--:-- David Friedlander: This all happened so quickly.
--:-- David Friedlander: I don't think anyone quite knows what he's going to do in those 14 days.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, presumably search for an apartment somewhere.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What do we know about his lieutenant governor, Kathy Hochul?
--:-- David Friedlander: Is she ready to lead one of the biggest states in the union?
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, I think like whatever we know about Kathy Hochul is probably equivalent to what Andrew Cuomo knows about Kathy Hochul.
--:-- David Friedlander: They have not spoken since February.
--:-- David Friedlander: He wrote a long book about his COVID response and lessons learned from it.
--:-- David Friedlander: He did not mention his lieutenant governor once in the book.
--:-- David Friedlander: As he resigned...
--:-- David Friedlander: To my team, Melissa DeRosa Robert...
--:-- David Friedlander: And he thanked people in his administration.
--:-- David Friedlander: He did not thank her.
--:-- David Friedlander: She was very much a lieutenant governor, sort of on the outs, traveling around the state to sort of small communities, meeting with small groups of voters, hitting small radio stations, small, small, small kind of thing.
--:-- David Friedlander: I love my position as lieutenant governor, and I don't harbor higher ambitions.
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, that was part two.
--:-- David Friedlander: Could it be you?
--:-- David Friedlander: I don't harbor higher.
--:-- David Friedlander: Why not?
--:-- David Friedlander: I'll tell you why, Karen.
--:-- David Friedlander: I have been so blessed to have opportunities come my way that I generally don't seek out.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Can Andrew Cuomo run for office again?
--:-- David Friedlander: Could he run against Kathy Hochul one day?
--:-- David Friedlander: Aha!
--:-- David Friedlander: Well, this is interesting.
--:-- David Friedlander: Yes, he can.
--:-- David Friedlander: Were he impeached, he would not be able to do that.
--:-- David Friedlander: This is a topic of much dispute in New York politics right now.
--:-- David Friedlander: A lot of people you talk to think that, you know, he's gone.
--:-- David Friedlander: And this is it.
--:-- David Friedlander: He's going to sort of sail off into the sunset and have to face all sorts of civil lawsuits or whatever else that stem from this.
--:-- David Friedlander: But there's this other strain of thinking, which I think I subscribe to, which is that I kind of don't think Andrew Cuomo's going anywhere.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, this is a guy who has been counted out so many times, keeps coming back, keeps surviving.
--:-- David Friedlander: He will enter next year when the election is with $20 million in his campaign account.
--:-- David Friedlander: He has by far the most famous last name in New York politics.
--:-- David Friedlander: You know, he could run for governor again.
--:-- David Friedlander: He could run for attorney general.
--:-- David Friedlander: He could run for any number of things.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You're saying that the Cuomo name isn't totally tarnished in New York.
--:-- David Friedlander: They're still going to keep that bridge he named after his father and maybe Chris Cuomo gets to keep his show on CNN.
--:-- David Friedlander: This isn't the end of the Cuomo family.
--:-- David Friedlander: I love my brother.
--:-- David Friedlander: I love my family.
--:-- David Friedlander: I love my job.
--:-- David Friedlander: I can't speak to what's going on at CNN.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How much did he own today what he did?
--:-- David Friedlander: How much did he actually own his sexual harassment of women?
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, it's clearly the reason he's resigning.
--:-- David Friedlander: But did he truly admit fault and apologize to the victims of his sexual harassment?
--:-- David Friedlander: No, I'm going to go with a no on that.
--:-- David Friedlander: He did not do that.
--:-- David Friedlander: I said on national TV to a doctor wearing PPE and giving me a COVID nasal swab, you make that gown look good.
--:-- David Friedlander: I was joking.
--:-- David Friedlander: Obviously, otherwise I wouldn't have said it on national TV.
--:-- David Friedlander: He said that, you know, he comes from a different era, that these were misinterpreted.
--:-- David Friedlander: He never wanted anyone to feel bad or to feel, you know, ashamed or anything else.
--:-- David Friedlander: And that he was just trying to be friendly, trying to be a good boss.
--:-- David Friedlander: My sense of humor can be insensitive and off-putting.
--:-- David Friedlander: I do hug and kiss people casually.
--:-- David Friedlander: But no, he did not admit to any wrongdoing, really.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, you know, he said he was sorry for the way these women felt, but he certainly said he didn't intend to demean or harass anyone.
--:-- David Friedlander: In my mind, I've never crossed the line with anyone.
--:-- David Friedlander: But I didn't realize the extent to which the line has been redrawn.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've covered Cuomo for a decade or more.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You wouldn't count him out completely.
--:-- David Friedlander: I may be alone in this, but no.
--:-- David Friedlander: I mean, I just think Andrew Cuomo first ran for governor in 2002.
--:-- David Friedlander: He disgraced himself.
--:-- David Friedlander: He was thought to be dead and finished in New York politics.
--:-- David Friedlander: Four years later, he was the attorney general of the state of New York.
--:-- David Friedlander: Four years after that, he was governor.
--:-- David Friedlander: He has been a sort of singular figure in New York politics for the past 15 years.
--:-- David Friedlander: He has more money than anybody else in his campaign account by a lot.
--:-- David Friedlander: He has the most famous name in New York politics by a lot.
--:-- David Friedlander: He still has reservoirs of goodwill in many communities throughout New York State.
--:-- David Friedlander: I have no crystal ball.
--:-- David Friedlander: I have no idea what's going to happen.
--:-- David Friedlander: But I think he's such a political animal.
--:-- David Friedlander: It's very hard to imagine him going quietly into the night.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: David, thank you so much for your time.
--:-- David Friedlander: You bet.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: David Friedlander, he writes for New York Magazine.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can find New York Magazine at nymag.com.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's Today Explained, and you already found us.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you.
