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--:-- Noel King: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Noel King.
--:-- Noel King: New York City Mayor Eric Adams has always been an odd guy. As a state senator, he made a video explaining how to search your kid's room for contraband. You can look in a jewelry box, a jewelry box of this nature, maybe a simple jewelry box. But if you look through it closely, you don't know what your child may be hiding. Fair. You should always, when your child brings in his popular knapsack with many different locations, look through it to see what exactly is your child carrying in addition to a book. Something simple as a crack pipe, a used crack pipe. Could he have found it on the street? That's quite possible.
--:-- Noel King: Wait, what? Swagger. As mayor, there was the urban rat summit. There was the baptism, his, at Rikers Island. And then there was the alleged corruption. The wire fraud, bribery, the indictment. And then came the order from the Department of Justice that all those charges had to be dropped. Ahead on Today Explained.
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--:-- Noel King: Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique. Fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say. So we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe. Expose corruption wherever we find it. and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at TheGuardian.com.
--:-- Noel King: Stand clear at the closing doors, please. The next stop will be today, please. Today's plane will be next. Stand clear. Katie Honan is a senior reporter at the nonprofit news site The City. Katie also hosts the FAQ NYC podcast. Yesterday, minutes before Katie dashed into a press conference with Eric Adams, we reached her in the rotunda of City Hall to ask her about the life and times of New York's mayor.
--:-- Katie Honan: Eric Adams is like a real New York story. He's a former police officer. He often talks about his path to the NYPD. As a 15-year-old, I was arrested and beat by police officers. But I also learned how to turn my pain into purpose. I became a police officer, NYPD reformer. And he was a very activist police officer, challenging a lot of the racism within the department for members like himself as a black police officer.
--:-- Katie Honan: And then he became a state senator representing neighborhoods in central Brooklyn, and then the borough president of Brooklyn. So when he ran for mayor in 2021, it was on a public safety message that really, especially towards the later months of the election season, really resonated.
--:-- Katie Honan: The next mayor of New York will confront an economy battered by the pandemic, as well as rising rates of gun violence and homicide that have made public safety the top issue for many voters. And as the city nears a full reopening, a lot of people are worried that surging gun violence could make it more difficult to attract visitors.
--:-- Katie Honan: This is a critical time for New York. We're facing a pandemic of crime, inequality and injustice. And that is how he became the city's 110th mayor of New York City.
--:-- Katie Honan: Before we get to the events of the past couple of weeks, what's his reputation as mayor been? What do New Yorkers think of him? It's funny, when I speak to the friends of mine who don't pay attention to politics, I think because the mayor himself talks about his personality and his own word, which is swagger. When a mayor has swagger, the city has swagger.
--:-- Katie Honan: He has his own message about who he is. You know, we all have stories about ourselves that we share. His, however, was very easily debunked. You know, his big thing is, I'm a vegan mayor. When you're eating the soul of a living being, you are also internalizing all the trauma when that animal is killed.
--:-- Katie Honan: A few months into his tenure in 2022, he's going out to dinner and the waiter is saying, yo, he ordered the fish, you know, which is not vegan. So there was that. I just want to clarify something. How often do you eat fish and do you eat any other animal produce?
--:-- Eric Adams: I eat a plant-based centered life. Some people want to call me vegan. Vegans eat Oreos and they drink Coca-Cola. I don't. And I think even his partying, it became a negative because people are like, why are you not out doing your job? Why are you out at clubs with French Montana, a rapper? Why are you out at these private clubs? French Montana in your friend group is not a good sign.
--:-- Katie Honan: Mansour Montana. He is such a large personality. His clothing, everything's embroidered. It says Mayor Adams, in case you didn't know who he was, on his hat, on his jacket. His phrase is get stuff done. There's GSD everywhere.
--:-- Katie Honan: So that's what we see of the colorful character of Mayor Adams. This is New York. It's a privilege to live in New York. And the leadership should have that swagger. That's what has been missing in this city.
--:-- Katie Honan: When do things start to go south for him legally? Well, we found out that the investigation into him started in 2021 when he was still a borough president, but we saw it publicly. I would say it was the fall of 2023 when his top fundraiser's home was raided by the feds.
--:-- Katie Honan: That morning, the mayor was on his way to Washington, D.C. to meet with the Biden administration to talk about the asylum secret crisis, which is it continues to be sort of winding down now. but it was for years a large issue in the city financially and just in terms of organizing, in terms of what the mayor had to focus on.
--:-- Katie Honan: A lot of it was taken up by the asylum seeker crisis. This issue will destroy New York City. Destroy New York City. We're getting 10,000 migrants a month. So the mayor flies to D.C. and then immediately returns. And all we knew initially was that he had to return for a quote a matter. So that was when we realized there might be an investigation into the mayor.
--:-- Katie Honan: And then we saw trickles of this until September 2024. A Bronx neighborhood swarming with FBI agents earlier today Records show the address involved is owned by a top aide to Mayor Adams We have just learned that FBI agents seized New York City Mayor Eric Adams phones and an iPad earlier this week The FBI rating the homes of at least five people in Mayor Eric Adams' administration, including two of his deputy mayors, the school's chancellor, and even reportedly the NYPD commissioner.
--:-- Katie Honan: And then in late September, the mayor himself was indicted on five counts, including bribery and wire fraud. What are the details there? Bribery and wire fraud. What was going on, allegedly? The mayor allegedly, in short, was helping out the Turkish government. The Turkish government. The Turkish government expediting a building that they have in Midtown, getting the fire permit expedited.
--:-- Katie Honan: You know, these things, it's New York City, it's a big city, and things take a lot of time. We also alleged that the mayor sought and accepted well over $100,000 in luxury travel benefits. These benefits included free international business class flights and opulent hotel rooms in foreign cities.
--:-- Katie Honan: In addition to that, there was supposed to be a superseding indictment, so additional charges filed. But we don't know if we're ever going to see those. OK, and once he's charged, what does he say? My fellow New Yorkers, it is now my belief. The mayor immediately recorded a video and he said, I have done nothing wrong. This is a political attack. I'm being targeted.
--:-- Katie Honan: His phrase was, I always knew that if I stood my ground for all of you, that I would be a target and a target I became. Because he says that he was targeted by the Biden administration because he was critical of their lack of help financially in New York City for the asylum secret crisis.
--:-- Katie Honan: I'll point out that the investigation predates the asylum secret crisis. And you can repeat that to the mayor as much as you want, but he's never going to listen to it. He insists that he is a pure victim of a political persecution, and he's continued to say it.
--:-- Katie Honan: And this is a kind of a note that's been picked up by a lot of particularly right-wing outlets across the country. He was one of the ones that spoke out against Biden. And if you speak out against Biden, you get punished. Menendez spoke out, got punished. Adams spoke out, got punished. Trump got more than punished.
--:-- Katie Honan: Mayor Adams is a Democrat. Yes. OK, but he claims he was targeted by the Biden administration and then President Trump is elected. And that leads us to where we are today. What happened? I'll point out Eric Adams was, at least up until the early 90s, registered as a Republican.
--:-- Katie Honan: And he's always been a more moderate Democrat. Here in New York City, there's lots of different shades of Democrats. Right. And he's been more towards the right. I think when it really solidified was before the election. There is something known as the Al Smith Dinner.
--:-- Katie Honan: It's a fundraiser for Catholic charities. Candidates always go, this was the first year that Vice President Harris did not go, or last year was. So now President Trump, then candidate and former President Trump spoke. We were persecuted, Eric. I was persecuted and so were you, Eric.
--:-- Katie Honan: The mayor's dietary restrictions are well known, but I've got to say, I've never met a person who's a vegan who liked turkey so much. He sympathized. He showed empathy for what Eric Adams was going through, which was sort of the first signal of, huh, if this guy wins, what can he do to help Eric Adams?
--:-- Katie Honan: We actually would pressure the mayor. Who are you going to vote for? He wouldn't say Vice President Harris' name. We did go to him when he voted at his home voting site in Brooklyn. He finally said Kamala Harris. But there was a lot of speculation that if President Trump became the president again, he would help Eric Adams out, which is what we saw with the Justice Department memo.
--:-- Katie Honan: Yeah. What is the Justice Department memo? Explain what happened there. So a few weeks ago, this memo drops from Emile Bove and the Justice Department to the federal prosecutors here in Manhattan requesting that they drop the charges against the mayor, never saying it's because the charges are without merit or there's no evidence behind it.
--:-- Katie Honan: But they said the charges restrict Eric Adams from assisting President Trump in carrying out his plans for undocumented immigrants here in the city. we saw immediately this sort of plainly political reasoning for wanting to drop the charges, and we saw the fallout of that.
--:-- Katie Honan: One after another, those prosecutors have quit in protest, including an assistant U.S. attorney in New York who not only refused to drop the charges against Adams, but in a letter announcing his resignation said, I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to be me.
--:-- Katie Honan: And then you even see a further domino effect of the mayor's four top deputy mayors stepping down or announcing they will resign in mid-March because of what the mayor is doing. And it's working with the Trump administration on things they don't believe in.
--:-- Katie Honan: So is the case, are the charges against Adams really going to get dropped? We don't know yet. Judge Dale Ho last week decided on Friday to basically bring in a third party legal expert because his his argument was, look, we've only heard from one side arguing, yes, we need to drop the charges. We need to have perhaps someone else to argue or to review the facts of the case and the circumstances and maybe make the argument that it should be kept and they should continue to pursue these charges.
--:-- Katie Honan: And here's why. In appointing this person, he's delaying the process. but this does not get the mayor off the hook as easily or as quickly as I think he, his lawyers, and the Justice Department had hoped.
--:-- Katie Honan: So you're a native New Yorker and politics in New York can, it can get weird. In your time covering politics in New York, where does this, where does this kind of stand on the scale of one to 10?
--:-- Katie Honan: Oh, I would say this is probably an eight. I'm going to leave open the possibility of things getting weirder.
--:-- Noel King: The city's Katie Honan getting ready to go into a Mayor Adams press conference. Good luck in there. Enjoy. I'll need it. Thank you so much.
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--:-- Noel King: Today, today, it's today, it's today.
--:-- Noel King: Barbara McQuaid teaches at the University of Michigan's law school. She served as the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: There are 93 U.S. attorneys in these United States, and it is their job to enforce federal law. As all U.S. attorneys are, Barb was a presidential appointee.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: She was appointed by Obama in 2010, and she served until 2017. I think the expectation at that time was what President Obama had done, which was to allow U.S. attorneys to stay until their successors were identified.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And that was sort of what the expectation would be with President Trump. But one day, quite abruptly, he told all of us to go. We called Barb because a relatively tiny number of people have held these jobs. And we wanted to know what she makes of the DOJ pressuring New York prosecutors to drop their case against Eric Adams.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: I think if they had focused on the case itself, perhaps the merits of the case, that would be appropriate. But that's not what they did. What they did here was to say that we think that defending himself in this case will make it more difficult for Mayor Adams to advance the president's policy priorities of violent crime and immigration.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And for that reason, we want to dismiss this case. That, to me, is highly inappropriate because that is allowing partisan politics to intrude upon the rule of law.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Prosecutors follow what are known as the principles of federal prosecution, and they're supposed to follow cases based on the facts and the law and not the policy priorities of any president.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Walk us through who gave the prosecutors in New York their marching orders and what exactly those orders said. Well, Emil Bove, who is the acting deputy attorney general, that is the second in command at the Department of Justice, sent a letter to the U.S. attorney there.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: She was the interim U.S. attorney placed by the Trump administration named Danielle Sassoon. And in that letter, he directed her to dismiss the indictment against Eric Adams, although to do so without prejudice.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And the reasons he stated were, number one, that it appeared that the case was brought for political reasons. And number two, he thought that the case would interfere with Mayor Adams' ability to enforce the law against violent crime and immigration.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And it was the response from Danielle Sassoon publicly, I think, that put this issue on everyone's radar screen. She said, I'm not going to do it. I'll resign before I do it.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: But she was appealing to his boss, the Attorney General Pam Bondi, to say, I hope you'll reconsider because this appears to me to be an illegal quid pro quo, a this for that, that is prohibited under federal bribery statutes that says, if you give me something, I will use my office to give you something.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And so she said, based on the meeting she had had with E. Melbove and the lawyers for Eric Adams, that it appeared to be that they were agreeing to dismiss this case so that he would be a cooperative partner in exercising his role as mayor of New York.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And it was that to which Danielle Sassoon objected. And then I also want to mention the significance of the without prejudice.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: So cases can be dismissed with or without prejudice. That means with prejudice, the case may not be brought again. Without prejudice means it can be resuscitated at any time and brought again.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And so one of the things she noted was that the without prejudice nature of this case is what really raised suspicions. Because If you think this case shouldn't be brought, then dismiss it altogether.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: It appeared that this without prejudice was there to keep leverage over Eric Adams so that they could maintain control over him. And in fact, if you saw the interview he did, Eric Adams, with Tom Homan, President Trump's border czar on Fox and Friends, it was pretty clear that's exactly what it was.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: If he doesn't come through, I'll be back in New York City and we won't be sitting on a couch. I'll be in his office up his butt saying where the hell is the agreement we came to.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: After the resignations, I heard people ask whether resigning is the best move, because if everybody resigns, then eventually somebody does give in and do it.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And the people who are who are ethical, who have, you know, backbones, they're not there anymore. What do you think about that tension?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Yeah, it's a really difficult dilemma. It's certainly a tradition, I suppose, in public service, in the military. and in the government.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And I suppose it's an effort to respect the chain of command. If your supervisor gives you an order that you find illegal unethical or immoral that your obligation is to resign rather than to implement it
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: But I hear you because if all the good people resign that means the people who will replace them are likely people who are willing to go to bat for Donald Trump and carry out his orders regardless of whether they satisfy the rule of law.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And I think that puts us in a worse place.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: What do you think this scandal tells us about the Justice Department in the second Trump administration?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: I think it tells us that we're in a very different place than we were in the first administration when we had, you know, Jeff Sessions, very aggressive on immigration enforcement, but certainly not lawless, recused himself because of his involvement in his public statements about Russia.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: I've said this, quote, I have now decided to recuse myself from any existing or future investigations of any manner relating in any way to the campaigns for president of the United States. William Barr, a little, maybe an intermediate step when he stood up and asserted his authority to dismiss the case against Michael Flynn.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: The Department of Justice is not persuaded that this was material to any legitimate counterintelligence investigation. So it was not a crime. And directed the filing of a new sentencing memo seeking a lower sentence for Roger Stone.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Those struck me as inappropriate, but not unlawful. And now we've got a completely different tenor at the Department of Justice with what we are seeing.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: You know, the through line in Pam Bondi's memos to the lawyers in the Department of Justice and Donald Trump's executive orders all have this line about implementing the president's agenda faithfully.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And it's an interesting choice of words because, of course, what the president's duty is under the Constitution is to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And so that's a little different. It seems to me that he is trying to change the mission of the department from the rule of law to the rule of Trump.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: How do we get out of this? Do you think that Congress is going to do anything here?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: I don't know. Certainly many presidents enjoy sort of a honeymoon period where members of Congress allow him to begin his term with the ability to bring his own people on board.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: But I am hopeful that at some point constituents are going to let their members of Congress know that this is not acceptable.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: We're already starting to see, you know, town halls across the country where citizens are telling their members of Congress they're not satisfied with what's happening and wanting them to stand up.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: When will you stand up to them and say that is enough?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And I think across the board, he's done some very good things. He's gotten rid of birthright citizenship. So I think ultimately members of Congress care most about maintaining their seats in Congress.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: and, you know, shamefully, I think they are afraid of a primary contender. Elon Musk has threatened to support primary challengers to people who don't go along with Donald Trump's agenda, and I think that concerns them.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: But if their voters indicate that they are unhappy with what they are seeing, I think that members of Congress have a duty to listen to them, and I think some, maybe many of them will.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: The issue, of course, in New York is the quid pro quo. Donald Trump wants something from Eric Adams, and Eric Adams wanted something from Donald Trump.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: But the vast majority of mayors in the United States and governors in the United States and other people in the United States who Donald Trump might want something from are not under indictment, right?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: So is this situation in New York City just a one-off, or do you think it's part of a playbook?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Well, I don't know, but recall that Donald Trump has famously said, he said it in his book, The Art of the Deal, that when people cross me, I hit them back, I counterpunch times 10, because it's important to send a message to everybody else that you don't mess with me.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: And so I imagine that when we see people who are refusing to cooperate with President Trump's immigration agenda or other policy agendas, we could see other directives.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: If he's willing to dismiss a case in exchange for cooperation, might he also be willing to bring a case against someone who is not?
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: Now, we haven't crossed that road yet, but if you look at what's happening out of the District of Columbia with the U.S. attorney there sending out letters to Chuck Schumer and Congressman Robert Garcia in New York who have said things in opposition to President Trump and conservative justices on the Supreme Court, that seems to be an effort to perhaps chill free speech or intimidate them by introducing the concept of criminal charges against people who speak out politically.
--:-- Barbara McQuaid: That's a really dangerous place to be in.
--:-- Noel King: Barbara McQuaid, UMich Law School, former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan.
--:-- Noel King: Amanda Llewellyn and Devin Schwartz produced today's show. Jolie Myers edited. Laura Bullard checked the facts. And Patrick Boyd is our engineer.
--:-- Noel King: I'm Noelle King. This has been Today Explained.
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