South Park is not your friend

Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram.

Brian Stelter: Great. And are you now or have you ever been a fan of South Park?

Sean Rameswaram: I've never watched South Park. I don't know anything about South Park.

Brian Stelter: I would call myself a passive South Park fan. I was the kind of viewer that if I saw it on Comedy Central, I would watch, I would enjoy it. But now, in the past month, I am now an active fan.

Sean Rameswaram: Dude, I totally didn't mean that, Cal. Like a lot of other people. I'm now going and seeking out the new episodes because this show has defied the odds.

Brian Stelter: How did it do that? How did it defy the odds? By speaking truth to the ultimate power right now.

Sean Rameswaram: The creators of South Park have always hated bullies, and they seem to believe Trump is the biggest bully of them all right now.

[Sound effects]

Sean Rameswaram: Wow! Washington, D.C. Your reaction, Mr. President?

Donald Trump: I've never watched South Park. I don't know anything about South Park.

Sean Rameswaram: Don't worry about it, sir.

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Sean Rameswaram: This is Today. Explain. Brian Stelter, S-T-E-L-T-E-R, Chief Media Analyst, CNN.

Brian Stelter: Great. And are you now or have you ever been a fan of South Park?

Sean Rameswaram: I've never watched South Park. I don't know anything about South Park.

Brian Stelter: I would call myself a passive South Park fan. I was the kind of viewer that if I saw it on Comedy Central, I would watch, I would enjoy it. But now, in the past month, I am now an active fan.

Sean Rameswaram: Dude, I totally didn't mean that, Cal. Like a lot of other people. I'm now going and seeking out the new episodes because this show has defied the odds.

Brian Stelter: How did it do that? How did it defy the odds? By speaking truth to the ultimate power right now.

Sean Rameswaram: The creators of South Park have always hated bullies, and they seem to believe Trump is the biggest bully of them all right now.

Brian Stelter: The very premise of the first episode of this new season is about Trump targeting the media. Eric, the character Eric Cartman, is angry that NPR has been forced off the air.

Sean Rameswaram: That was like the funniest shit ever. It was seriously the best show. It had like gay rappers from Mexico all sad because girls in Pakistan got stoned to death.

Brian Stelter: From the very first seconds of the new season, you know that this show has something to say. There's some bull crap going on in this country, and I'm not going to let it corrupt the environment of this school.

Sean Rameswaram: You also see how South Park Elementary is being transformed due to Trump's actions. There's only one thing that can bring some normality back to these corrupt times, and that is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Brian Stelter: What? This is, of course, a dramatic exaggeration of what's happening in real life, but it is true.

Sean Rameswaram: I'd like you all to put your hands together in welcoming Christ our Lord.

Brian Stelter: Hello, my children. I am the light and the way.

Sean Rameswaram: When Trump is introduced in the show, you see him, you know, fighting with the prime minister of Canada over tariffs.

Brian Stelter: People of Canada will not be devalued like this. Hey, come on, you don't want me to bomb you like I did Iraq.

Sean Rameswaram: I thought you just bombed Iraq. Iran, Iraq, what the hell's the difference?

Brian Stelter: Relax, guy.

Sean Rameswaram: But most memorably, you see him getting in bed with Satan himself.

Brian Stelter: Hey, Satan. I don't want to right now. What? Hey, relax. Come on, Satan, I've been working hard all day.

Sean Rameswaram: And I'm going to use some words I don't typically use on this show right now to describe that particular scene. because Trump derobes before you even see who he's about to get into bed with and has, I guess, like a micropenis.

Brian Stelter: Ah, come on, Satan. How do they follow that up? I think like two weeks later?

Sean Rameswaram: The most ruthless jokes in the second episode were about Christine Elm.

Brian Stelter: They were about that old scandal involving her shooting a dog on her farm.

Sean Rameswaram: The reason that this story is in the book is because people need to understand who I am.

Brian Stelter: Welcome to the team, recruits. I'm Kristi Noem, head of Homeland Security.

Sean Rameswaram: Well, she seems nice. Okay, very pretty.

Brian Stelter: You saw her over and over again in this episode, shooting at dogs.

Sean Rameswaram: A few years ago, I had to put my puppy down by shooting it in the face because sometimes doing what's important means doing what's hard.

Brian Stelter: This episode was really, really personal in the way it targeted Noem, showing her face maybe falling apart.

Sean Rameswaram: I think I can't handle myself because I'm a lady with good looks.

Brian Stelter: You know, pushing this idea that she was overusing Botox or other face fillers.

Sean Rameswaram: Also, this idea that she cares so much about photo ops and PR, that she's always out there dressing up in various outfits, posing for photos and videos.

Brian Stelter: And as always, there are elements of truth to these critiques or these satires, you know.

Sean Rameswaram: It is true that Noam has tried really hard to be front and center, very visible, playing to the cameras, going out on tours, appearing in the field, you know, showing that she's doing the work, so to speak.

Brian Stelter: Is this the first time this show has gone after Donald Trump and his administration?

Sean Rameswaram: No, but it is by far the most direct, the most vicious, I'd say.

Brian Stelter: You know back during Trump 1 right Trump first term in office there was this storyline where one of the teachers at the school Mr Garrison was becoming president and you know over time acting more and more Trump Mr. Garrison, you believe the immigration problem is easy to solve.

Sean Rameswaram: Yes, f*** them all to death. Let's make this country great again.

Brian Stelter: This served as a way for the creators of South Park to ridicule Trump and to speak out about some of his behavior, some of his conduct in the first term.

Sean Rameswaram: But this was not nearly as direct, not nearly as aggressive as what we're seeing now.

Brian Stelter: I guess it's not that big a surprise that South Park would go after Donald Trump when he is Donald Trumping harder than he's ever Donald Trumped before.

Sean Rameswaram: Yes. But they're not even sparing their parent company in these new episodes, right?

Brian Stelter: Madden Trey are like a lot of creators that they like. They love to poke fun at the parent company when they can.

Sean Rameswaram: The timing of this new season has been really extraordinary because Paramount was in the final moments, the final days of this protracted, politically tortured merger approval process when the new season premiered.

Brian Stelter: So you literally had this anti-Trump episode, sticking it to the administration, putting the president in bed with Satan, airing on cable at the same time that the administration is having to review and approve this merger.

Sean Rameswaram: The second episode of the season aired on a Wednesday. And then on a Thursday, the new Paramount took shape.

Brian Stelter: The FCC just approving that long simmering merger between Paramount and Skydance, a media company.

Sean Rameswaram: This is a deal getting the green light just weeks after Paramount agreed to settle with the Trump administration for $16 million.

Brian Stelter: And just days after Paramount fired Stephen Colbert.

Sean Rameswaram: What's more, as part of the deal, Skydance agreed to address the Trump administration's concerns about alleged bias at CBS.

Brian Stelter: The merged company, Paramount and Skydance, they came together.

Sean Rameswaram: There was this big formal press conference on Thursday around lunchtime in New York City.

Brian Stelter: And the new CEO, David Ellison, took questions from media reporters. about his grand hopes and dreams about this new company.

Sean Rameswaram: I said to him, so what about this South Park problem? You know, what are you going to do about this problem? Do you view it as a problem?

Brian Stelter: Ellison's response was really telling. He started out by saying he's a huge fan of the show. He's been a fan of South Park for his entire adult life. He's 42.

Sean Rameswaram: And he then went on to praise Madden Trey as being really unique, really, really talented creators.

Brian Stelter: And he said to me, they are equal opportunity offenders and they always have been.

Sean Rameswaram: So I think Ellison was saying they're not just targeting Trump because they're a bunch of lefties who want to attack the Republicans. They have always called out people on the left and on the right, whatever.

Brian Stelter: They're equal opportunity offenders.

Sean Rameswaram: I think he was trying to differentiate South Park from late night shows like The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, which was recently canceled.

Brian Stelter: I think he was trying to say these two creators are special. They are one of a kind, or we would say two of a kind.

Sean Rameswaram: And they're going to be protected by Paramount.

Brian Stelter: And obviously the other context here is the new owners of Paramount had just struck a five-year deal to exclusively stream South Park on the Paramount Plus streaming service.

Sean Rameswaram: This five-year deal is worth well over a billion dollars for the creators of South Park and for their production company.

Brian Stelter: This is a huge, huge vote of confidence in South Park as a tentpole of the future of Paramount.

Sean Rameswaram: And the whole idea here, it makes a lot of sense when you think about it. South Park has a library of 325 episodes going back to the 90s.

Brian Stelter: This is a really, really valuable library in the streaming era.

Sean Rameswaram: Because people like to go back and watch episodes from 10 or 20 years ago.

Brian Stelter: These episodes have a really long shelf life.

Sean Rameswaram: So it's really valuable on streaming.

Brian Stelter: And that's why Paramount was willing to fork over so much cash.

Sean Rameswaram: I think this might be where some people get confused because you've got everyone from, you know, Brown University to Meta to CBS and Paramount themselves settling with the president, making, you know, donations to the president's inaugural committee.

Brian Stelter: And then you've got Trey Parker and Matt Stone, who work for CBS or do business with Paramount Plus or Paramount, not only going for the president, not only making fun of his administration, his own manhood, but like making literally a billion dollars while doing it.

Sean Rameswaram: How are they able to get away with something that seemingly no one else is right now?

Brian Stelter: Now, this might be a case of business actually trumping politics, of profits actually trumping politics.

Sean Rameswaram: For Paramount, for the Paramount Plus streaming service, for the future of this newly combined company, big, loud franchises like South Park are key.

Brian Stelter: They are crucial. They're more important now than they were 10 years ago, and they might even be more important 10 years from now.

Sean Rameswaram: They are the foundation of the house that David Ellison is trying to build.

Brian Stelter: And he can't compromise with something like that.

Sean Rameswaram: And the difference here between South Park and Stephen Colbert is that, you know, the late show was losing money.

Brian Stelter: So yeah, Stephen Colbert is a staunch critic of President Trump, one of the loudest Trump critics on TV.

Sean Rameswaram: He's been canceled. A lot of his fans worry it's for political reasons.

Brian Stelter: CBS says it's purely for financial reasons.

Sean Rameswaram: And in a way, South Park actually affirms the CBS claim, right?

Brian Stelter: South Park also, you know, going for the juggler, taking on Trump directly.

Sean Rameswaram: And yet, because the show is really profitable and crucial for the future of streaming, it's not only back for a new season, it is being praised.

Brian Stelter: It's being celebrated by Paramount for having high ratings.

Sean Rameswaram: Paramount keeps putting out press releases touting how well South Park is doing.

Brian Stelter: The show is beating some of its very old records on cable, meaning records that date back to the 90s and the early 2000s in terms of what share of the cable universe South Park is nabbing on Wednesday nights.

Sean Rameswaram: But more importantly, if you add up the cable audience and the streaming audience, you're seeing five, six, seven million viewers tuning in for South Park for these new episodes.

Brian Stelter: Those are the kinds of numbers that almost any creator would kill for. certainly creators of animated comedies.

Sean Rameswaram: Brian S-T-E-L-T-E-R CNN. Check your local listings.

Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean. R-A-M-E-S-W-A-R-A-M. South Park is not your friend when we are back on Today Explained

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Sean Rameswaram: Oh my god! They killed...

Nicholas Qua: Well, they're reacting with their eyeballs, right? They're watching it. The first two episodes of the season so far has been drawing the biggest ratings that the show's had in many, many years.

Sean Rameswaram: It's drawing a lot of strong feelings, right?

Nicholas Qua: I think a lot of the, you know, I can sort of uncharacterially call them the normie libs or the Trump critics are, you know, responding very positively to this very visceral depiction of the president.

Sean Rameswaram: I did notice more people in my life were texting me about South Park than have ever texted me about South Park ever before.

Nicholas Qua: Probably a lot of people that you have never heard talk about South Park, maybe ever.

Sean Rameswaram: Some people they might not expect, like your aunt or your uncle, who maybe have more genteel tastes.

Nicholas Qua: And, you know, this is kind of what's so interesting about this moment. It's South Park, which has been part of our lives for, frankly, almost for as long as some of us have been alive.

Sean Rameswaram: Like, they're breaking once again to the culture in a very, you know, unexpected way, because, look, they're on Comedy Central.

Nicholas Qua: But Comedy Central right now is a very small concern in terms of their broadcast and streaming footprint.

Sean Rameswaram: So the fact that they're able to punch through like this, it's quite remarkable, frankly.

Nicholas Qua: But as you point out in your piece for Vulture, which is called South Park Speaks Only for Itself, this show has not been afraid to turn on liberals, to mock liberals viciously in the past.

Sean Rameswaram: In fact, the first episode of this new season, Sermon on the Mount, starts out with the show just ripping on NPR.

Nicholas Qua: The reason that we decided to work on this piece, or that I wrote this piece, is because we started noticing that South Park was getting celebrated by the same corners of, you know, the quote-unquote normie liberal community.

Sean Rameswaram: The same kinds of folks that took a lot of pleasure from SNL's, you know, satire of Trump.

Nicholas Qua: Yes, this is real life. This is really happening.

Sean Rameswaram: On January 20th, I, Donald J. Trump would become the 45th president of the United States. and then two months later, Mike Pence will become the 46th.

Nicholas Qua: You know, even way back when, like in the first Trump administration, the way like John Oliver would treat him, it's kind of this critique, satire, but still ultimately gentle, still ultimately very polite.

Sean Rameswaram: Donald Trump can seem appealing until you take a closer look, much like the lunch buffet at a strip club, or the NFL, or having a pet chimpanzee.

Nicholas Qua: South Park, because of the way it's always operated and the worldview and ideology which it has, which is somewhere between libertarian and nihilism, you could argue, or everybody's fair game kind of mentality, they've often been at odds with each other in the past.

Sean Rameswaram: So South Park has constantly drawn controversy over the course of its existence for depictions left and right.

Nicholas Qua: It goes after religion. Joseph Smith was called a prophet. Dum, dum, dum, dum, dum.

Sean Rameswaram: It goes after DeWoke. What I upset about is a wee little thing called cultural appropriation Ever heard of it

Nicholas Qua: That why we can wear sombreros on Cinco de Mayo

Sean Rameswaram: It went after Occupy Wall Street back in the day Reporting from the middle of a protest where two fourth grade students are fed up and have decided to occupy Red Robin.

Nicholas Qua: And so the fact that we're seeing a lot of Norvielibs like celebrate South Park at this point in time and specifically celebrating an episode that, you know, contains elements that they would have found reprehensible in the past.

Sean Rameswaram: it is there's an interesting development there and it is a suggestion of like some sort of weird kind of coalition or at least a coalition of aesthetics kind of forming so i wrote that piece to be like soundproof is not different it's doing the same that's always done it is the same as has always been um and it would only ever speak for itself it's not positioning itself as a savior as some people on social media has been sort of like kind of um congratulating celebrating them for.

Nicholas Qua: And, you know, and that's kind of that's kind of part of the interesting thing about this. It's that, you know, what what unlikely bitfellows to emerge at this point in time?

Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, I mean, you dug up an old interview with Trey Parker and Matt Stone in which one of them said after an episode that they got calls from their atheist friends a couple of times saying, what the fuck? We thought you were on our side.

Nicholas Qua: And they said, we're not on anybody's fucking side.

Sean Rameswaram: The takeaway for me was, you know, like South Park is not your friend, whoever you may be.

Nicholas Qua: Do you think people are forgetting that right now?

Sean Rameswaram: I do think there's a tendency when it comes to, again, quote unquote, normulip expressions of disdain or exhaustion over Trump administration to like find heroes wherever they can.

Nicholas Qua: And I think part of what I find somewhat counterproductive and distasteful about that is that you're just putting way too much emotional stock on parties that are just temporary allies, right?

Sean Rameswaram: And South Park is essentially, you know, they are somewhat libertarian of flavor in which they really embrace the notion of free speech.

Nicholas Qua: They really embrace the notion of sacrificing or cutting down sacred cows.

Sean Rameswaram: And that has not been the dominant political frame for a lot of the past couple of years, at least when it comes to the left, the liberals.

Nicholas Qua: And so there's a very uneasy tension when it comes to the relationship between those two sides.

Sean Rameswaram: Did you think at all about how the politics of Trey Parker and Matt Stone have evolved, or have they not evolved over the course of this period of time in which American politics have certainly evolved or devolved, if you will.

Nicholas Qua: No, I mean, many, many years ago, the writer, blogger Andrew Sullivan tried to coin the concept of the South Park Republican, which is a variation of like, fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

Sean Rameswaram: I, you know, my gut feeling is that Trey Parker and Matt Stone reject any and all labels that Stone and Dem, and they kind of want the freedom to move around in many senses.

Nicholas Qua: There are two things that are true at the same time. One is that I think they've been ideologically consistent throughout their entire careers, which is they believe very much in saying whatever they want.

Sean Rameswaram: They believe very much in that everything is worth critiquing, that earnestness is maybe something that they don't prize personally.

Nicholas Qua: But at the same time, they can also change. They also change in worldview.

Sean Rameswaram: And one of the more interesting examples of this is kind of how to handle climate change.

Nicholas Qua: So that was a talked about episode back in the mid-2000s called Man, Bear, Pig.

Sean Rameswaram: It is half man, half bear, and half pig. Where South Park essentially satirized Al Gore's climate advocacy, basically.

Nicholas Qua: Man, bear, pig simply wants to get you. I'm super cereal.

Sean Rameswaram: You could read it somewhat uncharitably, but somewhat honestly as them going, you know, this sort of fear on climate change. It's a little overblown.

Nicholas Qua: And, you know, Gore is in it maybe for the attention.

Sean Rameswaram: that is like one interpretation, one very strong interpretation of the episode and they just went after Gore with it then about like 12 years later I want to say they release sort of a kind of a two-parter that revisited Man Bear Pig where essentially they're like, Man Bear Pig is real, Man Bear Pig being this sort of creature that Al Gore is like kind of warning against which is a standard for climate change It is real!

Nicholas Qua: You want to believe it's real you go right on ahead Susan No, it's right there. It's right there behind you.

Sean Rameswaram: That's kind of widely viewed as like, look, they revised their view on making fun of people who are advocating around climate change.

Nicholas Qua: But it's still grounded in this like core ideology, which is they're essentially still the same people, though they can sort of change their positions on certain things.

Sean Rameswaram: Which is a really, you know, it's something that we should be open to when it comes to people and their relationship to politics.

Nicholas Qua: You get the sense that if Paramount or CBS or Comedy Central were to try to put the thumb on the scale of what they're able to say or what they're able to depict, that they could walk away and actually be all the more happy, all the more powerful for it.

Sean Rameswaram: And that's something that's kind of rare, I think, in the current political climate.

Nicholas Qua: Like we're seeing, you know, avatars of quote unquote free speech or expression of journalism basically fold their cards because they're worried that they, you know, will lose their power, will lose their money, will lose their position in society.

Sean Rameswaram: These are two guys. This is a team. This is a show that doesn't seem to give a damn about any of that.

Nicholas Qua: and it is you know, say what you want feel what you want about how they have approached certain issues in the past say what you want and feel what you want about the crudeness of the humor that is a very refreshing thing to see at this point in time

Sean Rameswaram: Nicholas Kwa, his friends call him Nick you can read and support his work at vulture at nymag.com.

Sean Rameswaram: Gabrielle Burbay made our show today.

Sean Rameswaram: Jolie Myers edited.

Sean Rameswaram: Patrick and Andy mixed.

Sean Rameswaram: And Laura Bullard did the facts for today. Explain.

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