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--:-- Noel King: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Noel King.
--:-- Noel King: Remember when the only thing anybody could talk about was white and gold versus blue and black? NatGeo's Brian Resnick does. And the Atlantic's Charlie Warzel explains why there might never be another The Dress.
--:-- Noel King: Brian Resnick, thanks for joining us.
--:-- Brian Resnick: Thanks for having me.
--:-- Noel King: So, the dress. It's a crappy photo. It's a photo shot seemingly indoors, kind of extremely unremarkable. Maybe something you'd find in your phone as a, did I take this on accident? The dress itself is a striped dress. So there's like these kind of bands across it horizontally, pretty wide bands, and they alternate in color. It's just a dress.
--:-- Brian Resnick: And if you want to help me out with more descriptive detail, I can try. Okay, so it's a bandage dress. It's about thigh length. It has a little kind of like sweater cape on top, which was not the thing that anybody was concerned about. And to me, the bands, which run horizontally, they almost look like some of the bands are fabric and some of them are maybe sequins. Yes, there's some texture to it. They're different textures.
--:-- Noel King: It's cute, is what I would say. I, you know, I might have worn the dress at one point.
--:-- Brian Resnick: And you're right that the picture itself was not very good. But that wasn't the point. What the point was, was that the picture ended up online. Where did it end up online and how did that play into everything?
--:-- Noel King: Yeah, so this was, we're talking about this all thanks to BuzzFeed. And, you know, in the mid-2010s, it was the champion of creating viral moments online. I'm sure you remember the watermelon rubber band.
--:-- Noel King: Hi, I'm Chelsea. And I'm James. This is our watermelon that we're going to try to explode using rubber bands.
--:-- Brian Resnick: So it was BuzzFeed writer Kate Holderness. She saw this dress on Tumblr. I believe there was a comment even maybe asking BuzzFeed or some journalist for help in deciphering the colors of this dress. And Holderness just kind of very simply wrote a story on BuzzFeed. The headline was, what colors are this dress? The answer is blue and black or white and gold.
--:-- Noel King: And the URL was really funny. It cracks me up. It says, help, am I going insane?
--:-- Brian Resnick: It's definitely blue. You saw what? Oh, blue and black forever. No, you didn't.
--:-- Noel King: No ambiguity. It's funny how this still provokes that kind of indignant, oh my God. Your perception was different than mine.
--:-- Brian Resnick: I mean, I actually think the actual colors of the dress are blue and black. But for the sake of the image, this is exactly what happened that day and spiraled out from there.
--:-- Noel King: You and I, millions of other people, are split on what colors they see in this dress. And it's not even like there's a hint of ambiguity in our responses to this question.
--:-- Brian Resnick: I mean, these people are idiots. It's golden light. It's blue. It's obviously blue. I cannot see blue anywhere in that dress. I don't even know how you could see blue.
--:-- Noel King: This question ignited a firestorm online, specifically on social media. BuzzFeed posted that dress controversy had drawn more visitors to their site at one time than ever before.
--:-- Brian Resnick: So within just a few days, BuzzFeed itself got 73 million page views on that post, which is a lot.
--:-- Noel King: But that was just in the few days. And a lot of this was facilitated by sharing on Facebook and other social media platforms, which, you know, used to be a little bit more generous with the traffic it sent to news websites.
--:-- Brian Resnick: So this was not just on BuzzFeed. Ellen tweeted, from this day on, the world will be divided into two people, blue and black or white and gold.
--:-- Noel King: You think it's blue and black because you've seen the actual dress. Also, I'm colorblind. I am.
--:-- Brian Resnick: I am a dyed-in-the-wool morning bird. I have to be up before the sun or I'm nervous the rest of the day. And I saw white and gold.
--:-- Noel King: I love that. Look, you know, in the past 10 years, I'm still a morning person and I still see white and gold and you still see blue and black. That has not changed.
--:-- Brian Resnick: And yet you wrote about this as a turning point. I think you're of the opinion that it's possible this could not happen on the Internet today.
--:-- Noel King: We could certainly see things differently today, but this particular set of circumstances, the virality, the conversation around it, that couldn't happen today. What do you mean by that? What do you think happened here?
--:-- Brian Resnick: Yeah, I do think that kind of virality works differently now, at least, where it's not social sharing anymore. It's like these algorithmically derived feeds.
--:-- Noel King: So, like, a lot of the engines of this kind of social virality have broken down. So, like, where is everyone going to have the same moment, to have this come-together moment about how different we can be? I don't see that happening today.
--:-- Brian Resnick: Brian Resnick, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for writing this.
--:-- Noel King: Oh, of course. We're sorry you left. Oh, I miss you all too.
--:-- Noel King: One update to this story that we'd be remiss not to share. You may recall that the photo of the dress was taken by a Scottish man named Keir Johnson. His mother-in-law planned to wear the dress at Keir's wedding. We now know that this man has a long history of abusing his wife. Last month, he pled guilty and was sentenced to four and a half years for assaulting her.
--:-- Noel King: Coming up next, the last best day on the Internet and everything after.
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--:-- Noel King: We're back with Charlie Warzel, who covers technology and Al Gore's internet at The Atlantic.
--:-- Noel King: The day the dress photo was uploaded, Charlie was working at BuzzFeed, but he was homesick with the flu.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: So I actually found out about it, like waking up from, you know, one of those like, long feverish sleeps.
--:-- Noel King: And, you know, sort of the thing you did in 2015 if you were working at BuzzFeed was you would wake up. And before you did anything other than open your eyes, you would check Twitter.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And I'd never seen it so focused on one thing. So this was a moment and a subject, right? This divisive issue that was kind of low stakes that made it just like the perfect thing to debate, to talk about.
--:-- Noel King: After the dress happened, there were so many like copycats, right? There was like the Laurel and Yanni like voice thing like, and I think now though, it feels like this is something that could not happen again.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: I don't think that the internet works that way anymore. And I think that that sort of mass event that's not something like, you know, a pandemic or a terrorist attack or a war. Other than those types of things, it's very hard for there to be this, like, central cultural event and for it to also stay civil and fun, right?
--:-- Noel King: I could imagine something like the dress happening now and then somehow, you know, you have people using it as a way to talk about vaccines, right? Or like, oh, of course, you liberals would whatever, you know, like, whatever it is.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: There's a way in which we've sort of gotten used to arguing on the internet in a certain way that leads down this, like, very toxic path, right? Like, everyone knows exactly the steps you have to take to get to whatever it is the bigger argument, you know, that you want to make is.
--:-- Noel King: So one way that I think about it is the period of non-fracture, of centrality in, let's say, the 2007 to 2021, right? That period is dominated by the, you know, Web 2.0, social media companies, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, what have you.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: I think that that actually is the abnormal period when you look at the way that the internet works, right? The internet actually came about during a moment of mass media, right? Cable news, the four networks.
--:-- Noel King: This is ABC News Nightline. Reporting from Washington, Ted Koppel. You know, massive TV audiences all watching the same thing every, you know, Thursday night on NBC or whatever.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And the internet comes about and it really splinters attention in this fascinating way, right? You get the rise of message boards and chat rooms and private little communities.
--:-- Noel King: Hey, Dan, ready for the game? I'm just finishing up here with my new kayaking friends.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: Kayaking friends on your computer? Yeah, I just got America Online.
--:-- Noel King: And it's this kind of great way to silo things off and find your people.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And then I think social media kind of came about and had this, you know, this goal, right, of, like, obviously Facebook is connecting the world.
--:-- Noel King: But there's this idea of sort of, you know, mass audiences. We're here to help connect the world. And we take that really seriously.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: They all succeeded in different ways, right? Facebook did succeed in connecting more people than have ever been connected in the history of the world.
--:-- Noel King: And then Twitter sort of succeeded becoming this really central broadcast channel for media people, right? People who spend all their time trying to figure out what's important, discussing, debating, and then ultimately deciding what's important.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: So Twitter became the assignment editor for the internet.
--:-- Noel King: You know, there was a period when I was working at BuzzFeed in around 2013 where we had this thing called the BuzzFeed Partner Network, I believe.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: We got the ability to sort of see the way that traffic was flowing on the internet, right? And there was this time, I think it was 2013, we noticed internally that all of a sudden Facebook had just turned on a spigot of eyeballs.
--:-- Noel King: But it was like this massive boost. And all of a sudden, everyone's posts, not just BuzzFeeds, but everyone's, were just getting unbelievable amounts of traffic, right?
--:-- Charlie Warzel: Yeah. And this was due to some kind of algorithmic change. And that lasted for a while.
--:-- Noel King: I think that that combined with the fact that there was this discussion platform where everyone kind of got to debate, like, what is the story of the day? And everyone's, you know, writing the story, seeing how that does on other websites, and then writing that.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: That there ended up becoming this very weird kind of mass culture on the internet.
--:-- Noel King: I think that naturally that's gonna go away right Like naturally audiences are going to go to different places You know, there's going to be migrations from different platforms.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: That happened with Facebook, but Facebook also decided it didn't want to do that with news anymore. So it turned off the spigot.
--:-- Noel King: So the idea is to try and focus more on bringing people together by trying to put more emphasis on facilitating more meaningful social interactions between people.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And then I think you have external events, right? Like the pandemic, you know, that was a multi-year period where people were stuck inside on their phones, computers, like all day, you know, mainlining news because they're scared, they're bored, what have you.
--:-- Noel King: And I think that there was this way where, you know, when the world opened up a little bit more, people changed their behaviors, right? Felt like, oh, I've been kind of stuck with these people for a long time, listening to their thoughts.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And I think you see the internet moving into more fragmented communities that actually kind of resembles that earlier part of the internet pre-social media.
--:-- Noel King: You know, there's Discord platforms, there's message boards, there's even just the sort of walled communities of like Instagram stories where you do friends only. Group chats, all of that, I think, people have flocked there because that mass feeling of culture on the Internet, it also got toxic really quickly.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: Hello, that was me in the white hat in that viral video you just saw.
--:-- Noel King: This is a viral video with like hundreds of comments of people talking about how disgusting I look and how skinny I am and how she can do so much better.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: You know, these days you work in news and you understand that things still do go viral to some extent. But the difference seems to be that there are things that really do happen, not things that we made happen.
--:-- Noel King: So like Kate Middleton really did appear to vanish for a few weeks. The Ocean Gate Submersible really did, unfortunately, very sadly, appear to vanish for a couple of days.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And those things went viral, but those were actual news stories.
--:-- Noel King: Yes. And again, I think that that is there's something good about this, right? There's something obviously the Kate Middleton story was a bit gross, right? You had somebody who was trying to have privacy over a health issue, a very famous person, of course, and then a lot of like reckless speculation and things like that.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: I feel like this is strategic. And yeah, maybe they're soft launching his mistress and soft launching a divorce, which makes me feel better.
--:-- Noel King: But it also was legitimately a news story in the sense that an incredibly famous person seemed to be going through a health crisis. And they're, you know, a beloved public figure.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: So there's going to be interest. It is newsworthy.
--:-- Noel King: I think what you're describing here is essentially top down, right? News that is news kind of filters down to the rest of us instead of the other way.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And I think that there's something healthy about that, right? Because the opposite is what we were talking about before, which is this bottom up, right? Small things happen in these little tiny communities or little places. And these people get sort of like picked up and like thrown into the national news discussion, right?
--:-- Noel King: That's how you get Bean Dad. That's how you get, you know, has Justine Sacco landed yet or all those types of different things.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: Some of those stories are really newsworthy. Some of those are really interesting. Some of those are fun. Some of those are funny.
--:-- Noel King: But there is also this notion, right? Of, you know, virality being an excuse to talk about things that really are none of our business.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: Ooh, yeah. So I did this experiment earlier this year where I was really curious, what does it mean to go viral or what does virality mean in 2024?
--:-- Noel King: And to do this, I essentially just typed the phrase went viral into Google News and just started looking at, you know, different organizations that were writing about stories or things that went viral.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: I noticed that the primary organization that would do this would be like a local news station or like a drive-time radio station.
--:-- Noel King: And they would essentially pluck things out of the internet, very small, local instances of something funny or something weird happening.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: And they would justify talking about it because it quote unquote went viral on Instagram or Twitter or some other place.
--:-- Noel King: And there was no standardization there, right? Sometimes it would be, oh, this thing got 4 million views on Twitter. Sometimes it would be this got 150 million views on TikTok, right?
--:-- Charlie Warzel: It wasn't very clear what, you know, now in 2024, what it means to go viral, other than we're kind of using it as an excuse to talk about something that's really none of business.
--:-- Noel King: I think that when I look at the future, my bet right now is that things only feel more and more siloed.
--:-- Charlie Warzel: Whether that's good or bad, I think kind of remains to be seen. But I do think that the days outside of like an election day or something like that, the days of us like all gawking at the exact same thing and having the exact same reactions to it, those are past us at least for now.
--:-- Noel King: I think we'll always have the weather. We will. That's true. That's true.
--:-- Noel King: That was The Atlantic's Charlie Warzel.
--:-- Noel King: Amanda Llewellyn produced today's episode, Amina Al-Sadi edited, Laura Bullard fact-checked, and Andrea Kristinsdottir engineered.
--:-- Noel King: The rest of our team includes Matthew Collette, Miles, Brian, Avishai Artsy, Hari Mwagdi, Halima Shah, Denise Guerra, Peter Balanon-Rosen, Patrick Boyd, and Victoria Chamberlain, who thinks many of you probably don't remember the dress.
--:-- Noel King: Sean Ramos-Firm is on vacation. Miranda Kennedy is our executive producer.
--:-- Noel King: The Dress and Everything After is a part of Vox's 10-year anniversary series, This Changed Everything.
--:-- Noel King: From an overlooked conflict in Europe to a not-at-all-overlooked podcast called Serial, you gotta catch them all.
--:-- Noel King: You can go to Vox.com and read there.
--:-- Noel King: Support Fox's journalism, please, by joining our membership program today.
--:-- Noel King: If you can, go to box.com slash members to sign up.
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--:-- Noel King: Thanks for listening to Today Explained.
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