--:-- [Theme music fades out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The first 2024 Republican presidential debate is here. Fox News is hosting tonight in Milwaukee.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Actually, it's pronounced Miliwake, which is Algonquin for the good land. But weirdly, the frontrunner slash accused felon slash former president isn't going to be there.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It is what it is. But another Florida man will be. As will Vivek Uncle. And the former vice president. I love my mom.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And a handful of people you've probably never heard of. Rude. But Fox really wants you to watch it.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're going to find out why and get you ready for it, whether you're going to watch it or not, on Today Explained.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Adio. Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management platform that Adio says is built for the next era of companies.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can go to adio.com slash todayexplained to get 15% off your first year.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's A-T-T-I-O dot com slash todayexplained.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Our coverage has something unique, fierce independence.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So we're free to report the whole picture.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Explained. 2024 Explained.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, I'm Eric Wemple, a media critic for The Washington Post.
--:-- Eric Wemple: How badly did Fox News want to host the first presidential debate in August?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, Fox News, this is central. They want to host the first GOP debate badly, very, very badly.
--:-- Eric Wemple: In fact, when Fox News was in the middle of its legal peril in the Dominion case, it was announced in April.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The RNC announced that Fox News would be doing its first debate.
--:-- Eric Wemple: We are going to host the very first debate with Fox News.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It will be a Fox News Republican primary debate.
--:-- Eric Wemple: I'm definitely watching. You're definitely watching.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You're going to have to be there, right? You're probably going.
--:-- Eric Wemple: They hadn't at that point announced the moderators.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it was no coincidence they came at Fox News' greatest moment of legal and PR peril in years.
--:-- Eric Wemple: So that is an indication of how seriously, how badly they want to do this.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's a really, really high-profile event for them.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Doesn't seem like a presidential debate, you know, more than a year away from a presidential election is going to reverse anyone's fortunes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But what's the thinking at Fox News?
--:-- Eric Wemple: What is the excitement over this debate actually about?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, I think the excitement is in one part ratings.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Fox News has struggled a little bit, especially in prime time, since Tucker Carlson left after the Dominion settlement.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And the other thing is that it's a big news event.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And every single clip that gets passed around on the Internet and on other TV outlets and so on and so forth, it all comes back to Fox News.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So it's an enormous branding opportunity, enormous opportunity to get themselves in legitimate news for a change.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Of course, a big bummer for Fox News must be that the former president slash accused felon slash frontrunner is not showing up.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's such a big downer, in fact, that Fox News has deployed all sorts of lobbying resources from its newsroom, including the top executives to break bread with Trump.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And Brett Baer, I understand, this is according to the New York Times, has called Trump directly four or five times to beseech him to participate in this debate because Trump is such a draw, an obvious draw.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The debate will be more lively if he's participating.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Why would I let Ada Hutchinson, I call him Ada because, you know, his name's Asa, but I call him Ada for whatever reason.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Why is that?
--:-- Eric Wemple: He needs.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think he's weak.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There'll be more headlines and there'll be more, basically more amperage for Fox News all around if Trump participates.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And of course, he's the prohibitive frontrunner.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, I guess in the CNN poll of polls, he's up like 40 points over his next rival.
--:-- Eric Wemple: So clearly, you know, when someone is the center of the race to that degree, you want him participating in your debate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Fox News has gone all out to court him.
--:-- Eric Wemple: If he doesn't show up, because I guess there's still some negligible chance that he will, will people still watch?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think people will still watch.
--:-- Eric Wemple: You know, already people are tuning into Fox News.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It does tend to wallop its competitors in prime time, even though it's sagged a little bit, as I said, since April.
--:-- Eric Wemple: But yes, people will tune in.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's original programming, you know, it's not contrived. It's not scripted.
--:-- Eric Wemple: I think that people still hunger for that sort of exchange.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, Chris Christie is certainly a theatrical and interesting person on stage.
--:-- Eric Wemple: It's a lot of conflict. It's a lot of chatter. It's a lot of rhetoric.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And, you know, it is the kickoff of the season of this 2024 presidential cycle.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And none of the fireworks that happen with Trump will happen without Trump.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But there'll be some stuff.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And, of course, they'll all comment on Trump.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's, I suppose, on some level, the next best thing to having him there anyway.
--:-- Eric Wemple: So even if he's not there, he's the elephant in the room at the elephant debate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Exactly.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Former President Donald Trump is skipping out on the event in favor of an interview with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And we hearing now from two sources familiar with that matter that the interview has actually already been recorded.
--:-- Eric Wemple: So how will you toggle between the debate and the piece of counterprogramming put on by Tucker Carlson whom I know you a fan of and the former president himself?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, you know, I wondered about that.
--:-- Eric Wemple: I don't have a plan yet.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But, you know, I got to tape one or the other, I guess, or just hope that there is a recording that I can easily access.
--:-- Eric Wemple: But yes, the Tucker Carlson interview with Trump that has been taped and is going to debut in direct competition with the debate is certainly an interesting wrinkle.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Obviously, Trump did not want to absent himself from the debate and not offer his fans another way of getting Trump content at the very same time.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And Carlson, you know, one of the subplots is that Carlson has a very active interest in undermining Fox News, given that Fox News essentially fired him in April after it wrapped up the Dominion suit.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They have been slinging mud at each other ever since, with Carlson and his people claiming that Fox News fired him as a condition of the Dominion settlement.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Fox News and Dominion both have refuted that, have denied any such thing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But basically what we're seeing here, and what is the absolute delicious dynamic here, is that Tucker Carlson is basically tormenting Fox News.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And that to me could not be a greater example of poetic justice in this entire beat.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've been doing it for about 20 years in one way or another covering media, and this is the most deserved torment cycle that I've ever seen in my life.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And where is this counter-programming available?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He runs video stuff and he just drops it on Twitter, drops it on X.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And we'll see who comes out the bell of the ball tonight.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, I suppose.
--:-- Eric Wemple: My guess is, of course, all sides will proclaim victory.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Of course.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Has there been in recent memory an occasion where the frontrunner in a presidential election didn't show up to a presidential debate?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, I'm sort of remembering when there was a lot of drama about Trump showing up to a Fox debate.
--:-- Eric Wemple: He made a big deal about Megyn Kelly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It was all based on that August 2015 debate when Megyn Kelly asked him about his treatment of women.
--:-- Eric Wemple: You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Your Twitter account is several—
--:-- Eric Wemple: Only Rosie O'Donnell.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O'Donnell.
--:-- Eric Wemple: So he just made a whole circus of it and then blew off that January 2016 debate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it was this months-long drama just before the Iowa caucuses.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Whoever even heard of her before the last debate?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm not a fan of Megyn Kelly.
--:-- Eric Wemple: I don't like her.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She probably doesn't like me, and that's okay.
--:-- Eric Wemple: It was still a, you know, a headlining event.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But that was sort of like an interesting progression because it showed Trump doing what he does now, which was unthinkable at the time, which is a GOP frontrunner or near frontrunner or whatever, basically dissing Fox News.
--:-- Eric Wemple: We hadn't seen that much of that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But Trump, he did something that people hadn't seen before, which was just diss Fox News and trash it.
--:-- Eric Wemple: They can't toy with me like they toy with everybody else.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So let them have their debate and let's see how they do with the ratings.
--:-- Eric Wemple: You know, obviously, the political system, well, you may say it's recovered.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Some people say it never has.
--:-- Eric Wemple: He did go on to, of course, win that election.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I believe he lost the one after it.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Does a debate in the end actually affect political fortunes anymore?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think there's an argument that it does.
--:-- Eric Wemple: There's this wisdom going around now that this debate is kind of a donor's debate, that all the big money people in the Republican Party are going to be watching to see if someone emerges as a real viable alternative to Trump, and they may want to put the money behind that person.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I think that the candidates are very cognizant of that.
--:-- Eric Wemple: They need to show themselves as viable and presidential and all that sort of stuff.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So yes, I do think that there's a relevance to the debates and that there aren't that many opportunities to break through outside of the debate.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Because, you know, everybody's on Twitter or X or everybody's on social media, everybody's on Facebook, it really is difficult to pierce the bubble.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So worth watching to find out who might be running against the foreign president or who knows who might end up being his vice presidential candidate.
--:-- Eric Wemple: Yeah, I think that that is a big part of it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, these debates are always tryouts for vice presidential hopefuls.
--:-- Eric Wemple: And that's why a lot of them, you wonder like, why isn't he attacking this person? Why isn't she attacking this person?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, you know, they want to be on the ticket.
--:-- Eric Wemple: So that's one of the great dynamics that you find.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I honestly believe that that's one of the reasons why it's worthwhile and interesting to watch these debates, that there's so many different currents and dynamics that are going on at one time.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Eric Wemple, read him at The Washington Post.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When we're back on Today Explained, enough about who's not going to be there and more about who is.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Get anything from it other than that roof over your head.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Not anymore, says Built Rewards.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: By paying rent through Built, they say you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, perhaps a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and so much more.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Your home isn't just where you sleep.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's your community, and Built wants you to go out and do things in the community.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can eat at your favorite local restaurants, then earn more points.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When you're ready to travel, they say Built Points can be converted to miles or hotel points all around the world
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can earn points on rent and around your neighborhood wherever you call home by joining built slash explained That J dot com slash explained
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Every day, millions of customers engage with AI agents like me.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We resolve queries fast.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We work 24-7 and we're helpful, knowledgeable, and empathetic.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Visit sierra.ai to learn more.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today Explained is back with Christian Paz, senior politics reporter at Vox.com.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Who has written for our website a sort of primer for this debate tonight in Milwaukee.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Christian, barring major surprises, there are going to be eight people on the stage.
--:-- Christian Paz: So these are Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, what is that? Icy?
--:-- Christian Paz: Yeah, that's probably a lot of sugar, huh?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Tim Scott, one of the current senators from South Carolina.
--:-- Christian Paz: I'm living proof that America is the land of opportunity.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I call them the donor favorites because obviously Ron DeSantis is seen as the most credible alternative to Trump right now.
--:-- Christian Paz: And he was the one who was being hyped up the most over the last year almost, right, since the midterms when he won his reelection in Florida by pretty big margins.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then Tim Scott, who isn't necessarily polling the highest either, but who, especially in Iowa, right, has been seen as more of a realistic, likable version of DeSantis, who hasn't been turning people off, has been steadily rising in the polls and has been consistently raising a lot of money and using it wisely.
--:-- Christian Paz: I believe that my optimistic, positive message is being rooted in Iowa and that, frankly, our poll numbers continue to go up.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's great news.
--:-- Christian Paz: More importantly, people are showing up at large numbers and my crowds continue to increase.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's even better news than even polling.
--:-- Christian Paz: OK, so those are the donor faves.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Let's talk about the critics of the former president.
--:-- Christian Paz: Definitely.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Up until Monday, when the Republican National Committee confirmed that there'd be one other person on stage, this was a category of two.
--:-- Christian Paz: Former Vice President Mike Pence.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: On that day, President Trump asked me to put him over the Constitution, but I chose the Constitution, and I always will.
--:-- Christian Paz: And former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A lonely, self-consumed, self-serving mirror hog.
--:-- Christian Paz: Both of whom had spent four, you know, the last four years in Trump's orbit.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Pence's vice president, Christie, as a campaign advisor working to get Trump reelected, who both turned into critics of Donald Trump, especially after he refused to admit defeat in the 2020 presidential election and then tried to do that whole January 6th coup deal.
--:-- Christian Paz: Now we have a third person in this category, the former governor of Arkansas, Issa Hutchinson, who Trump helped him get reelected in 2018.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was one of the first people who jumped into the race and seriously leaned into an anti-Trump message.
--:-- Christian Paz: Do you support the rule of law and accountability or do you support Donald Trump and support the chaos that he brings and a disregard for the rule of law?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then Chris Christie, you know, he has flip-flopped back and forth between opposing and supporting Donald Trump and right now has chosen to also try to speak truth to the Republican electorate.
--:-- Christian Paz: The Republican electorate doesn't necessarily want to hear that, and they don't necessarily want to hear him.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then Asa Hutchinson, who also has very little chances of being the nominee, he just barely qualified.
--:-- Christian Paz: He's still under 1% of support across the country.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That doesn't really give a lot of reason to believe that he'll be a serious contender for the nomination.
--:-- Christian Paz: Let's have some fun.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Let's talk about some of these rich guy vanity campaigners.
--:-- Christian Paz: One of them I think I saw playing tennis shirtless on a clay court on Monday.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, and I think you're talking about Vivek Ramaswamy, who's the bigger name in this category.
--:-- Christian Paz: This is a category that is two, Ramaswamy and then the outgoing governor of North Dakota, Doug Burgum, who also has a personal treasure chest of riches that he can use to run this campaign.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Editorial note, since we spoke with Christian, poor Doug Burgum injured himself shooting hoops with his staffers and may not appear at tonight's debate.
--:-- Christian Paz: Godspeed, Doug. We hardly knew ye.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We can start with Ramaswamy in terms of just how confounding of a person, of a candidate he is.
--:-- Christian Paz: He made his wealth in biotech.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And when he joined the campaign field, it didn't really look like he would be a serious voice.
--:-- Christian Paz: But he's seen his star rise as Ron DeSantis' star has fallen.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Governor Ron DeSantis has had his entire career in politics, and that's fine.
--:-- Christian Paz: But I think that the Republican Party, I think the country is hungry for an outsider, somebody who has actually accomplished things outside of politics.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's in third place in most national polls and in a lot of early state polls.
--:-- Christian Paz: He's also rising quickly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Part of that is because he's been pretty smart about his media exposure, whereas Ron DeSantis early on did not speak to most media outside of conservatives.
--:-- Christian Paz: Right. I mean, only one of them has been on Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It is. I empathize with your challenge because it's very different to put me in a box.
--:-- Christian Paz: Difficult to put me in a box.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Exactly.
--:-- Christian Paz: Exactly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Vivek Ramoswamy has been everywhere.
--:-- Christian Paz: He's really been eager to talk to as many folks on as many different media types and platforms.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he is willing to spend money.
--:-- Christian Paz: He said that he's been willing to spend more than 100 million of his fortune on the race.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think the biggest thing to note here is how he'll likely be attacking Ron DeSantis.
--:-- Christian Paz: I mentioned earlier that folks around Ron DeSantis are concerned about Tim Scott rise
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: More recently the super PAC that supporting Ron DeSantis has also let leak that they concerned about Vivek Ramaswamy.
--:-- Christian Paz: There was a New York Times report on the leak of debate prep materials from the super PAC that included recommendations to the candidate Ron DeSantis to take a sledgehammer to Vivek Ramaswamy.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Ramaswamy really loved that and used that as a further attack on DeSantis.
--:-- Christian Paz: Didn't he like totally roast him?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What did he say?
--:-- Christian Paz: His spokesperson said, if DeSantis struggles to use a spoon, I can't imagine he is particularly agile with a sledgehammer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What is that a reference to?
--:-- Christian Paz: In Shride and DeSantis lore is an episode from four years ago during a private plane trip from Tallahassee to Washington, D.C.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In March of 2019, DeSantis enjoyed a chocolate pudding dessert by eating it with three of his fingers, according to two sources familiar with the incident.
--:-- Christian Paz: That's the most relatable thing I've ever heard about Ron DeSantis.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And the other rich guy on stage, Doug Burgum, he's the billionaire governor of North Dakota.
--:-- Christian Paz: Hardly anyone knows him, and this kind of shows up in the polling.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Again, Doug might not make it, but we're rooting for him.
--:-- Christian Paz: Let's move on to Nikki Haley.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yes. The former governor of South Carolina and the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley.
--:-- Christian Paz: Who at one point not too long ago seemed like she could be the future of the Republican Party.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For a strong America, for a proud America, I am running for president of the United States of America.
--:-- Christian Paz: Though she's now stuck in a very weird mid-range position among the candidates where she's not in the upper tier of candidates who are being taken very seriously by donors and by voters, but also isn't a nobody or a vanity candidate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She started the campaign with a promise to take on bullies.
--:-- Christian Paz: We were whipping y'all's butt.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You were.
--:-- Christian Paz: We were whipping y'all's butt.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But she wouldn't mention Donald Trump.
--:-- Christian Paz: And a lot of her criticisms work just as easily on Joe Biden, who most people would assume she's talking about, as they would apply to Donald Trump.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so I think one of the big problems with her is that she's gone very far being a political chameleon, somebody who has a finger on the pulse politically, can assume the identity or the trappings of whatever political movement is needed.
--:-- Christian Paz: But then when she comes around to trying to make a declarative statement on policy or on how she's different from other people, there isn't much newness there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Nikki Haley just seems to be the most obvious example.
--:-- Christian Paz: Somebody who used to seem to have a future and at the moment just kind of seems stuck.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And lastly, there are a couple people other than that one guy who won't be on the stage.
--:-- Christian Paz: Yeah, exactly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And this is why I thought it was important to make the category of donor favorites, because there are two current governors, Glenn Youngkin of Virginia and Brian Kemp of Georgia, who a lot of the elites within the GOP and a lot of these donors wish would swoop in at the last minute, clear the field, take on Donald Trump, dispatch him, and then win the nomination, go on to defeat Joe Biden.
--:-- Christian Paz: That remains to be seen.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Fox News, Christian, called their own debate in a headline over at FoxNews.com enormously important.
--:-- Christian Paz: Is this debate going to be enormously important or is it Fox News just getting high on its own supply?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There's definitely an incentive to want to hype yourself up when you're putting on a party and to want people to go and want people to watch and wish that they were there.
--:-- Christian Paz: The problem is that Donald Trump isn't there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it just doesn't seem likely that any of these folks, unless big, unless here, right, because we don't know what's going to happen with these investigations and what we have the indictments.
--:-- Christian Paz: And so there is a chance, right, that something spectacularly bad could happen for Donald Trump.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then he isn't able to stay in the race.
--:-- Christian Paz: But that doesn't right now seem likely.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And none of these candidates really seem like alternatives to Donald Trump.
--:-- Christian Paz: And I think here again, we see this divide between elites and the people.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And this is within the GOP, that the people are telling all the pollsters, the people are telling reporters, the people are telling anyone who'll listen, they really like Donald Trump.
--:-- Christian Paz: And that there are enough of these folks that really like Donald Trump to deny a nomination to anybody else.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And as long as that is true, there really isn't an alternative to Trump.
--:-- Christian Paz: And what we can expect is another Trump-Biden rematch.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is what everyone cries.
--:-- Christian Paz: But read us.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Christian Paz, read him at Vox.com.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Our program today was produced by Avishay Artsy.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We were edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Serena Solon and Amanda Llewellyn, and mixed by David Herman.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The rest of the team here at Today Explained includes Halima Shah, Hadi Mawagdi, Miles, Brian, Victoria Chamberlain, Siona Petros, Patrick Boyd, and John Ahrens.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Our managing editor is Matthew Collette.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Our executive producer is Miranda Kennedy.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: My co-host is Noelle King.
--:-- [Sound effects: Briefly, a news ticker sound]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder sometimes.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're distributed on public radio stations by WNYC all the time.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're part of the Vox Media Podcast Network since the beginning of our time.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And you can get in touch with us anytime today explained at vox.com if you like email.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today underscore explained on that platform that doesn't have a name anymore.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Whatever.
--:-- [Sound effects: Theme music starts playing]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you.
