The true story of The Woman King

Noelle King: When the wind blows, our ancestors push us to march into battle against those who enslave us. I went to see a movie last Friday, The Woman King. Loved it. The ancestors would love it. Today, it's out in theaters. It's set 200 years ago in the West African kingdom of Dahomey, which was a real place. Viola Davis plays a ferocious general named Naniska, who leads an army of women soldiers against European slavers and an enemy African tribe. We fight not just for today, but for the future. We are the spear of victory. We are the blade of freedom. The women warriors of Dahomey were also real, as is this uncomfortable truth. Their kingdom got rich in part by capturing and selling its enemies into slavery. Coming up on Today Explained, the director tells us how she balanced a history that is both triumphant and tragic.

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Noelle King: Support for Today Explained comes from the FIFA World Cup, of all things. The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It is the ultimate celebration of sports and culture. You can get closer to the beautiful game with a hospitality package, closer to the action, the best seats, the best suites, closer to match day and that world-class food and that world-class entertainment, closer to the experience of a lifetime. Book a hospitality package at fifaworldcup.com slash hospitality. And shop in-store or online at Macy's.com. It's Today Explained. I'm Noelle King. The director Gina Prince-Bythewood has proven herself in Hollywood. Love in basketball, beyond the lights, the old guard. But when she pitched the woman king, it was almost like Hollywood executives forgot her distinguished resume. She wanted to make an action movie starring Black women, set two centuries ago, where men are barely on screen. And Hollywood was like...

Gina Prince-Bythewood: You know, Hollywood is a fascinating place in that people speak on wanting original stories, yet they continually fall back on what's familiar, because what's familiar is safe. There's a proven track record to that. So when you come out with original content, which me as an audience, that's what I get excited about, it's a harder sell. It's certainly a harder sell when it's a movie, a historical epic, which is absolutely a genre that's been dominated by male stories and male heroes and male protagonists and villains. And certainly we've never seen this with Black women before. And so what was your attitude going into the room with people who you knew might be skeptics?

Gina Prince-Bythewood: I would like to say my enthusiasm and passion for this. When I read the script, I saw the movie. And I feel like I'm my first audience. And the movie in my head was exactly the type of movie I would die to see. And so it was bringing that passion into the room. But not only the passion, but the swagger of everything I'm telling you I want this film to be, I can do. because my body of work has shown you that I can do that. You really want to do this, kid? And certainly having the old guard on my resume at that point was absolutely helpful in their belief that, yes, she could do the action and do these big set pieces well. People discount what passion can do when you go into a room. You're convincing somebody to give you millions of dollars. They have to be inspired and excited by your vision. And so that's really what I came in with.

Noelle King: This is a movie that is based on real historical events and a real historical kingdom, which, of course, makes things more complicated. When you approach this movie, did you have some amount of trepidation about how you would make the history come alive and how you would deal with some of the historical challenges?

Gina Prince-Bythewood: I would say it wasn't intimidation. I think because historical epics are some of my favorite films. You know, Braveheart. That they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom! I've watched it a hundred times. I love that film, Last of the Mohicans, Gladiator. You know, these films that are set in a true time in history, and yet there is some inventiveness in terms of the characters and your ability to tell personal stories within that. So I knew going in the balance that I wanted to have and the confidence in that and the excitement in being able to tell the story of this kingdom. Like that's an extra thing to know that these women were real, that this David and Goliath battle that they had was real and the stakes were real and the reasons for it were real, that this kingdom was real, that the politics and gender politics were real. I just kept getting more excited as I got deeper into the research because I saw more truth and more authenticity that I could pour into the story.

Noelle King: A lot of the movies that you seem to admire, those movies center men. They always have, right? And this is one where you just were not doing that. Viola Davis is not just the star. She's the beating heart of the movie. The rest of the main cast are all women. Did you know you were making something that would be game-changing if it was done right?

Gina Prince-Bythewood: I guess I looked at it as I knew we were doing something that hadn't been done before. That was exciting as an artist to be able to do that. And I knew because of that and who was fronting this movie, who were the heroes in this movie. I feel like I had more pressure. and I saying self pressure on getting it right I needed people to be able to go to this movie and just be enthralled by these warriors When I started watching it as we cutting it together the smiles I would find myself doing when I'm just looking up on the screen and seeing these characters, it's like, oh, we did this. And I get to watch this anytime I want. I get to turn on our editing monitors and watched these warriors, these Black women being heroes. And that was really exciting.

Noelle King: I want to ask you about the history here, because some of this is difficult. There was a kingdom of Dahomey. And one of the ways in which this kingdom became very wealthy was that they did capture their enemies and sell them to European slave traders. A lot of this was going on in West Africa at the time. And that is a very difficult thing for a filmmaker, I would imagine, because your heroes are part of a kingdom that is doing this thing that is appalling and historically one of the most terrible things that has ever happened. How did you wrestle with my good women are part of a kingdom that is doing this awful thing?

Gina Prince-Bythewood: It was the knowledge that at the time that we're setting this, that the kingdom was at a crossroads, an illegit crossroads of half of its kingdom and its people wanting to abolish being a part of the trade and the other half wanting to keep it because it gave them their wealth. and being able to use these women as that voice of wanting to change. And so being able to deal with, yes, they did this, but there was a fight. And a young king, Gezo, was in the middle of this trying to decide which way to go and ultimately deciding to go against it, knowing that that could affect his reign, which, you know, for me personally, I find heroic in that he potentially gave up his power to do the right thing.

Noelle King: There's one very vivid scene in which Viola Davis's character, who plays the General Naniska, tries to convince the king, played by John Boyega, to give up the slave trade and instead make money off of the production of palm oil, which is something the Kingdom of Dahomey has a lot of. And he says, slave trading is why we prosper. And she says, but at what price? Historically, did that conversation happen?

Gina Prince-Bythewood: Oh, absolutely. They had the potential, and they ultimately did go to palm oil production as their main source of income. Did it happen specifically with NANISCA? NANISCA is an amalgamation of a number of different people, but that is the direction that they ultimately went to. This was the story. And there were moments where some felt it would have been easier to not focus on that and make it easy. And I wasn't going to do that. We had to be truthful.

Noelle King: Okay. Okay. There was so much about this movie visually. The costumes, the landscapes, the weapons, the architecture, the music, the dancing. You created an intensely convincing world. And that's a very hard thing to pull off. How much time did you spend trying to make this absolutely authentic as a portrayal of Dahomey in 1823? And how much did you say, no one except historians really knows what it looks like? We can take some creative liberties. Tell me about the decisions that went into that.

Gina Prince-Bythewood: The decision was immediate. We are going to be as authentic as possible. And that meant me and all my department heads were tasked with doing a deep dive into the research. and foremost it was separating truth from those who had you know a definitive reason to make us seem like savages and really take away our humanity in the way that they described the kingdom and the people and what they were about and the things that they did with those who didn't who were telling the truth we found these couple journals written by missionaries who made the trip and that was invaluable. And this was pre-photographs, which makes it difficult. So it was great, though, to be able to look at the different sources and piece together what they would have worn, the social dynamics, how they had that equality within the council because of the two gods that were their main deities, which were a man and a woman. And so having that equality within the palace, despite the patriarchy outside of the palace, how the women trained, the fact that they created these elaborate choreographed dances, and the fact that the palace, some of the palace is still there. And so we were able to recreate exactly what the palace would look like. It was, we have to do this the right way. We have to be authentic. We are telling the truth. Again, it's not a documentary, but we are world building and we're putting an audience into this world that they haven't seen before. And so you need to be as accurate as possible.

Noelle King: What do you want your audience to take away from this? There's a couple things, certainly. I want all audiences to be able to come out of here and just think, I just saw an incredible movie and incredible warriors. and it doesn't matter that they didn't look like me. I just saw them. I saw this woman. I felt it. And I want women to be able to watch this and be inspired and understand that we have an innate warrior within us. I wish I had this when I was little because I was an athlete and the amount of times I was told something was wrong with me because I like sports and didn't want to wear dresses and just gravitated towards athletics, to normalize being a warrior and normalizing who these women were. And not just that they were badass, but also that their vulnerability was a strength, that the sisterhood, that depth of living and dying for each other. I want women to feel that. And I want Black women to be able to see themselves in a way that we've never seen ourselves and take that in, ingest it, and walk differently.

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Noelle King: Let's be honest. Are you happy with your job? Like, really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown, or one we never wanted in the first place. But still, we stick it out, and we give reasons like, what if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place, and maybe the most common one, isn't everyone kind of miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry.me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be. Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along the way. So don't leave your career to chance. Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer. That's strawberry.me slash unstuck. It's Today Explained. I'm Noelle King. And I promise you, you cannot watch The Woman King with all of the faces and the landscapes and the incredible fight scenes without thinking, what was the kingdom of Dahomey really like? Leonard Wanchikon is an economist. He teaches at Princeton. And he served as an advisor on the woman king because he is originally from Benin, where the kingdom of Dahomey used to be. He studies the Egoje, the woman warriors, who are also sometimes called the Dahomey Amazons. And he is a descendant of one of those women. That is mind-blowing, Leonard.

Leonard Wanchikon: Growing up in Benin, as you did, Did you learn about the kingdom of Dahomey? Did you learn about the women soldiers?

Leonard Wanchikon: Yes, yes. In fact, three things. So first of all, one of the training centers of the Amazons was actually about one mile from my hometown. Wow. And I realized later on that someone from my extended family called Eseyi was actually a female warrior. and like her son called Narcisse, who was, you know, the enforcer because, you know, I was not always well behaved. So he's the one who my mother sent me to him to yell a bit at me and stuff. I realized that Narcisse was the eldest son of SAE. So in fact, I grew up in an environment that had an Amazon. There is another town I realized much later on, like three miles from where I was born, that also had an Amazon who was known in the whole region as one of the leaders of anti-colonial movement, domestic, I mean, like in Benin around 1940s. So yes, I knew that it was there, but it's only recently through the research that I'm doing that actually got names, realized that I have neighbors or neighbors of my grandparents who were actually female warriors. And it just made me very, very proud and even more determined to be able to tell their story.

Noelle King: The fun part is to dig into details of the history of the kingdom of Daomei, you know, like food, like whether the king go to battle with the warriors, what the female warriors were, and details that a typical historian doesn't get into. And you need that for the movie to be as accurate as possible and to reflect the local history, the local culture as possible. The movie begins in 1823. How did this kingdom get to be a kingdom? And who lived there? What was it like?

Leonard Wanchikon: It was a group of princes from a place called Tado who moved out of the kingdom and decided to settle in various parts of the current Benin. And those who came to the Abome plateau where the kingdom was set up, they developed into an extremely sophisticated and very modern state, particularly under King's Gezo that was portrayed in the movie. And they fought for their independence and their sovereignty against other local states. And then in that process, the women, you know, the Amazons, played a major, major, major role. And they have a very relatively thriving economy. Obviously, they were involved in the slave trade, but also they were plantations. And they have some industry. They have international trade. But what was so distinguished is also the culture, the music, the arts. And very recently there were some artifacts stolen by the colonizer that was in Paris for centuries That was brought back It was highly highly sophisticated What we were not seeing are actually the fact that there were normal girls growing up in environments where women were brought up to do anything, involved in agricultural activities, in cultural activities, and they play with boys in a very gender-inclusive environment. And that's what allowed many of them to be very assertive, very strong, very independent. And that's what led to the institution itself, led to the idea of setting up an army for just women, where through many rituals, they learn to be fearless and they learn to be extremely brave. All our lives they tell us stories about the Agogic, that you have magic. Fighting is not magic, it is skill. We will see if you have any.

Leonard Wanchikon: What we are not seeing as well is what they became afterwards, after they led the army. the army. You know, they were entrepreneurs, they were religious leaders, they were community leaders, and they were mothers and cultural icons. That's what might be missing a little bit. We want to focus solely on violence and war. This kingdom sounds rather remarkable in what it allowed women to become in the 19th century.

Leonard Wanchikon: Absolutely. And then, for instance, the government of Gezo were very gender inclusive. Women were not just allowed into the army, were allowed in every level of government. There's an interesting moment in the movie where one of the king's wives tells him, we have what we have because of the slave trade. Essentially, this is why the kingdom of Dahomey is rich. Is that accurate? Is the slave trade how Dahomey grew into a very wealthy kingdom?

Leonard Wanchikon: Yes and no. Yes, because, you know, the slave trade for at least a century was a major part of the local economy. But at the same time, particularly in Leuquing, there were aggressive push to diversify the economy by bringing like palm oil, coconuts, banana, other agricultural products that could be sold internationally, particularly to Europe. And besides that, you know, there was a major conflict within the government over the continuation of the slave trade. And on one side, there were clear attempts to, if not to end it altogether, was actually to scale it down significantly. And we also need to stress the fact that by the time of Gezo, the process of getting slaves and exporting them has become less centralized. Something to stress as well is that Daome accounted for 5% of overall slave exports, you know, about 600,000 people out of 13 million. So that's big. But, you know, it shows that Daome was not the epicenter of African slave trade, you know. So I'm not trying to diminish the importance of slave economy, But I wanted to put it in perspective and be slightly more nuanced by stressing the fact that, particularly mid-19th century, there was serious internal conflict about ending the slave trade.

Leonard Wanchikon: Yeah, so, okay, two things. So I think the first thing we learn is that there are ways to overcome a gender gap. And there are two ways. One is belief that there is nothing intrinsically weak about a woman. So they can do anything, including the riskiest and the most challenging job, which is actually the frontline fighter. and this belief is not enough you need to set things up other education policy job opportunities and laws to allow them to do exactly that you know for instance well maybe those women coming in did not have all the attributes to be as a fierce warrior as men but then through the training they did exactly that this is important it has a lot of implication for instance if you will be a gender gap in mathematics well you know set up all female elite math school you know and then before you know that's it they are it's equal you know i mean so i think this is for me and the lesson to be done and the second one is that we have to be open-minded and hold the view that great thing may happen outside where we are. People tend to think that Europe brought gender equality in Africa and only to realize that in fact, Europe was way behind some part of Africa on issues of gender equity, that Europe had a lot to learn even today. And we also have a lot to learn today from the past. And I'm very, very happy that the movie came out to show exactly that.

Noelle King: Leonard Wanchikon at Princeton. He's working on a book about the Agogé. Today's show was produced by Avishay Artsy and fact-checked by Tori Dominguez. It was engineered by Paul Robert Mounsey, and edited by Amina El-Sadi and Noelle King, who also hosted. It's Today Explained. I'm the Other Woman King. Hello.