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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm Noel King.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're talking about Emil Bove, the president's former lawyer, who was just confirmed to the US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit.
--:-- Noel King: That's right. And the only place to go from there is the Supreme Court – not that the president needs any help there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: [laughs] Exactly. So, let's get into it. Ian Millhiser is here to explain why people are so mad about Emil Bove.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, Ian, tell us about Emil Bove. Who is he, and why are people so mad about him?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, Emil Bove is a hardcore Trumper and one of the president's many personal lawyers. He's been confirmed to the second most important court in the country, the US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about him?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that he doesn't respect the rule of law. He used the criminal justice system to inappropriately pressure elected officials. And there are some other side concerns, like the Justice Department investigation that recommended he be demoted from his supervisor role.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And there are some high-profile whistles blown on Emil Bove throughout his confirmation process.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Yes, there are. One is his handling of the Eric Adams case. So, Mayor Adams is still the mayor of New York, and there were some very serious corruption and bribery charges brought against him during the Biden administration.
--:-- Noel King: And what happened to those charges?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, the Justice Department swiftly moved to drop the charges against Mayor Adams after he curried favor with President Trump for months, including dining with him in Florida.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And what's significant about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: What's significant is that they moved to drop the charges without prejudice, which means they could bring them back at any point.
--:-- Noel King: And seven Justice Department lawyers, including the US attorney in the Southern District of New York, all resigned in protest over his actions.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And there's another case where Emil Bove said that the Trump administration might have to say "fuck you" to the courts and just defy court orders if they didn't let them deport people.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Yes, that's right. And there are some prominent conservative activists who have come out against him because they think he's a Trump crony.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that he may not be ideologically reliable. He's not someone who came up through the Federalist Society and the conservative legal movement. No one really knows what his views are on things like abortion or religion or the stuff that Republicans have normally looked for.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And he's an ultra-Trump loyalist who does the sorts of things that ultra-Trump loyalists do.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Exactly. And that's why there's so much concern about him being on the Third Circuit.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: [laughs] Oh, yay. Oh, yay. Oh, yay. We made an episode recently about how Donald Trump was kind of breaking up with the Federalist Society.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: [laughs] Yeah, that's right. And I think producer Denise can roll the tape on that right here.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: [laughs] That's great. So, Ian, what's the significance of this nomination?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, the interesting thing about this nomination is that it's the first Trump nominee that we've seen, at least in this term, that doesn't come out of the Federalist Society mold.
--:-- Noel King: And what does that mean?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: It means that he took on the job as Trump's personal attorney and working closely with Donald Trump seems to have radicalized him.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And he's coming from a different faction within the legal priesthood than all or nearly all of Trump's first-term judges.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Exactly. And that's why there's so much concern about him being on the Third Circuit.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about him getting to the Supreme Court?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, if Donald Trump nominates him to the Supreme Court and if the makeup of the Senate hasn't completely changed by then, then, yeah, he's going to coast.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And the Senate just isn't providing any check on Trump's nominees.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Exactly. And there are a lot of judges who are auditioning for the Supreme Court by handing down really outlandish decisions that they think Trump likes.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that if he gets to the Supreme Court, he'll just walk the party line or walk the MAGA line, walk the Trump line.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. And the Supreme Court is already pretty sympathetic to Trump.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Yes, that's right. They haven't ruled in his favor 100% of the time, but they've been extraordinarily sympathetic to anything that Trump wants from them.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: [laughs] Okay, well, let's talk about the Supreme Court. What have they been up to during their summer recess?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, they've been quite busy, actually.
--:-- Noel King: Yeah, I mean, it used to be that justices basically had the same schedule as schoolchildren.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: [laughs] Yeah, that's right. But the times have changed.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And what's changed?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, the emergence of the shadow docket.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the shadow docket?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The shadow docket refers to asking the court to rule very, very quickly on cases that in the past they would normally give a lot of time to percolate in the lower courts before they stepped in.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And how did this start?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it started as a way to deal with death penalty cases.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that it's been used to bypass the normal deliberation process and decide cases without giving the parties a chance to fully present their arguments.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's the impact of this?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it's had a huge impact. Trump started winning cases all the time on the shadow docket.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that it's been used to bypass the normal deliberation process and decide cases without giving the parties a chance to fully present their arguments.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's the impact of this?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it's had a huge impact. Trump started winning cases all the time on the shadow docket.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: [laughs] Okay, well, let's talk about some of the cases that they've won on this shadow docket.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: So, I'll tell you about two. These are, I think, the two most alarming ones from the second term.
--:-- Noel King: And what are they?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: One is a case called Department of Homeland Security v. Thuraissigiam.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's the issue in that case?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The issue is that there's a treaty that the United States has signed on to, the Convention Against Torture.
--:-- Noel King: And what does it say?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: It says that before we deport anyone, we have to have a right to object and say, hey, I think I'm going to be tortured if you send me to that country.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what did Trump do?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Trump claimed to have found a loophole that basically nullifies the Convention Against Torture altogether.
--:-- Noel King: And what did the Supreme Court do?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The Supreme Court said that Trump could do this.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's the impact of that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it essentially eliminated the Convention Against Torture.
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--:-- Sean Rameswiser: [laughs] Okay, well, let's talk about the Supreme Court's summer recess.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, they've been quite busy, actually.
--:-- Noel King: Yeah, I mean, it used to be that justices basically had the same schedule as schoolchildren.
--:-- Ian Millhiser: [laughs] Yeah, that's right. But the times have changed.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's changed?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, the emergence of the shadow docket.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the shadow docket?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The shadow docket refers to asking the court to rule very, very quickly on cases that in the past they would normally give a lot of time to percolate in the lower courts before they stepped in.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And how did this start?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it started as a way to deal with death penalty cases.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that it's been used to bypass the normal deliberation process and decide cases without giving the parties a chance to fully present their arguments.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's the impact of this?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it's had a huge impact. Trump started winning cases all the time on the shadow docket.
--:-- Noel King: And what's the concern about that?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: The concern is that it's been used to bypass the normal deliberation process and decide cases without giving the parties a chance to fully present their arguments.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And what's the impact of this?
--:-- Ian Millhiser: Well, it's had a huge impact. Trump started winning cases all the time on the shadow docket.
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--:-- Sean Rameswiser: Thanks for listening to today's episode of Today Explained.
--:-- Noel King: And thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And thanks to Ian Millhiser for joining us.
--:-- Noel King: Yeah, thanks Ian.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: If you want to hear more episodes of Today Explained, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
--:-- Noel King: And if you want to support our show, you can become a Vox Member.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: Yeah, that's right. You can find out more at vox.com/members.
--:-- Noel King: Thanks for listening.
--:-- Sean Rameswiser: And thanks for having me on the show.
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