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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A few weeks ago, the Black Lives Matter protests were basically anywhere you looked in the United States. But in Portland, Oregon, they never really stopped. And then something happened there that a lot of other cities didn't experience at all. Federal agents in full camo fatigues showed up and started throwing people in unmarked minivans. Oregon Public Broadcasting has been covering this story.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I spoke with OPB's Conrad Wilson this morning. For weeks, the Portland Police Bureau has been policing these protests, and they were policing them really aggressively. But the federal government started to get involved really around the 4th of July.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: This event has been declared a riot. Disperse immediately. If you do not disperse to the east, you are subject to arrest or use of force to include crowd control munitions. We saw a pretty big night where basically federal law enforcement came out of the courthouse and really like cleared protesters through the city. They went several blocks away from the federal courthouse.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: Their state of mission here, right, has been to protect federal property and personnel. We took note of the fact that here you have federal law enforcement that are, you know, blocks into the city, blocks away from federal property. They claimed they were going from one federal property to another. But, you know, our reporters on the ground were seeing other things. You know, I mean, it was like they were they were using pretty aggressive crowd control tactics.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: Who exactly are these federal law enforcement members? Where do they come from? It's members of the U.S. Marshals Service. There's a special operations team with the U.S. Marshals Service that's come here. And it's also been heavily Department of Homeland Security personnel. There have been members of Customs and Border Protection. There's a group called BORTAC that does a lot of work on the border, a pretty controversial group. There have been members of a special ICE unit, like a special operations ICE unit that have been here protecting, they say, the federal courthouse.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: This all happened after President Trump signed an executive order in late June. Now they're looking at Jesus Christ. They're looking at George Washington. They're looking at Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson. Not going to happen. Not going to happen. Not as long as I'm here.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, I don't think a lot of people took that very seriously, but there was a there there, huh?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: Yeah, well, I guess, you know, there was. And there was a part of it that was like clamping down on criminal activity. That's sort of what has put so many federal law enforcement officers in Portland. That's what's gotten so much attention here. The idea that Trump is sort of sending federal law enforcement here and that they're behaving how they're behaving, using tear gas, using crowd control devices.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: There was a really kind of seminal moment last weekend where a protester was hit in the head by a member of the U.S. Marshals Service. Labella seems to be improving. He's no longer critical and is instead listed in serious condition today. But his mother told me it's still unclear how his injuries will impact his vision or if there's any brain trauma.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I mean, these things have just angered people. It's, you know, and and I think that the idea that the president who continues to talk about Portland, who talks about quelling protests in Portland. We've done a great job in Portland. Portland was totally out of control and they went in. And I guess we have many people right now in jail and we very much quelled it. And if it starts again, we'll call it again very easily.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: People here are mad. They're just really mad. They want federal law enforcement to leave.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think another seminal moment that perhaps led to a lot more people outside of Portland and Oregon noticing that this was happening was this video that circulated all over the world last week of a protester sort of being dragged into an unmarked vehicle by what looked like military personnel who refused to identify themselves.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: Yeah. What are you doing? Use your words. What are you doing? Use your words. What are you doing? Use your words. What is going on Who are you NLJ will get you out What your name Tell us your name What your name Okay you fine We get you out Bro what All right We got you, friend. We got you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, that video was extraordinary. And actually, we broke a story about this guy named Mark Pettibone. It wasn't him in that video, but something like that happened to him. Basically, he had attended a protest. And after the protest, he was leaving. A van pulls up right in front of us. and I am basically tossed into the van, and I had my beanie pulled over my face, so I couldn't see.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: He didn't know where he was going, but it was the federal courthouse. They patted me down and took my picture and rummaged through my belongings. One of them said, this is a whole lot of nothing. He seemed disappointed that I didn't have any weapons or anything on me. Eventually, he was given his Miranda rights, read his Miranda rights. He was asked if he wanted to waive his rights and answer some questions, and he said he didn't. And, you know, the federal law enforcement officers said, hey, this interview's over.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They left him there for about another hour and a half before he was released. And when we arrest somebody in this country, we have to have probable cause. And there's a lot of questions about, did that happen here? I mean, was this an event where there was probable cause.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: And it really disturbs so many people. I think what seems particularly haunting to people is that this doesn't look like something that requires federal law enforcement or military personnel. This looks like a local thing that local law enforcement, especially as militarized as they are these days, could handle.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So Ken Cuccinelli, he's the acting deputy secretary at the Department of Homeland Security. He told NPR last week that... I fully expect that as long as people continue to be violent and destroy property, that we will attempt to identify those folks. We will pick them up in front of the courthouse. If we spot them elsewhere, we will pick them up elsewhere.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: This doesn't look like America. This looks like another country. And when I talk to federal law enforcement officials, they say things like, I don't know why they have to wear camouflage. I don't know why they're using unmarked vehicles. There's a way you can look like a military force that's trying to intimidate people. And there's a way you can look like law enforcement that is trying to investigate, you know, a possible crime.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And very much so, folks here feel like it is this kind of occupying force, this sort of militarized force that is trying to intimidate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How are people and the protesters in Portland responding to this federal presence in their city now that there are these videos of these strange sort of abductions that are occurring?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: They're really mad. I think people that, you know, may have been open to the idea of having federal law enforcement protect federal buildings are increasingly, I think, radicalized against the role the federal government is playing here. And they're increasingly angry.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler has had an evolution on this. You know, he initially, you know, was supportive of federal law enforcement being protecting their building. He didn't say, you know, he said, I don't have an issue with that. The thing he said that made him angry, though, was them kind of coming out of their building and starting to police the streets of Portland.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: The videos, the pictures, the experiences that we're all here in Portland should be shocking to all Americans. The words and actions from President Trump and the Department of Homeland Security have shown that this is an attack on our democracy. And I think, you know, even folks that saw a role for the federal government to play here are now saying, why are they here?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A Multnomah County commissioner named Sharon Myron, you know, she's an ER doctor. She was just kind of this warm, affable person. She got tear gassed. It does feel like this occupying force has come in that is, you know, in any other world, in any other scenario, you'd be watching this on TV and think this is like a dictatorship and they're coming in and taking over.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: It changes the way people think about the role law enforcement is playing here. And it makes you wonder, you know, what are they really doing here? You know, is it about protecting buildings? It increasingly starts to look like an occupation.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And now it feels like these protests in Portland aren't about George Floyd anymore. It actually seems like they're about the response to the protests that were about George Floyd.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: I say this with a lot of humility, but I mean, the story we wrote about the vans, you know, basically federal officers picking people up, completely blew up. And prior to that, you know, it was sort of a smaller group of people that had been turning out to these protests. But that story comes out and the response was really huge.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, there were a lot more people that were out protesting, you know, even moms that were showing up and kind of dancing and, you know, basically organizing downtown. Let stay clear Moms are here Let stay clear Moms are here Feds stay clear Moms are here Let stay clear
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Shooting a firework at a federal building you know or hitting a law enforcement officer with a hammer which have happened very much so like you know that going to be seen as criminal activity But when you have moms out there dancing in the street, I mean, I think it really humanizes sort of a protest movement. And in a way, it's like almost giving it a new identity and really kind of creating a sense of like, this is what this is about, Portland. And federal government, what are you doing here? Explain yourself.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: After the break, Oregon sues the federal government. I'm Sean Ramos for him. It's Today Explained.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Conrad, you mentioned that, you know, initially the mayor of Portland was on board with these federal troops coming in that he felt that there was a need to protect federal property within the city. How has that thinking evolved over time? I mean, are there still people in elected positions in the city or the state who are saying, we need these federal law enforcement members here protecting stuff? Or is this pretty much uniformly like get these people out at this point?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: We should be careful how we talk about the mayor and that in his views towards federal law enforcement. What he saw was just like, you have a federal building here, you should use your resources to protect that building, just like, you know, we're using local police to protect, our buildings. But at this point, I think everybody is wanting the federal government to really de-escalate the situation. They want kind of this enhanced federal law enforcement presence to go.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How is the city or the state making that desire known or making it official?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: So the Oregon Department of Justice filed a lawsuit late Friday night. The lawsuit is claiming that there have been civil rights violations pertaining to people being picked up. I mean, this idea that the unmarked vehicles are coming and grabbing protesters and that that, you know, the Department of Homeland Security says this activity will continue. They laid that out in a lawsuit. And they're also pursuing with kind of state prosecutors. They're pursuing a criminal investigation into the Donathan Labella incident, the guy who was hit in the head with the crowd control device by a U.S. marshal.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They're looking to see if there is a criminal case to be brought against federal law enforcement there. So those are two pretty huge things that the state did late Friday night.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: And what exactly are they suing over in this lawsuit?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So yeah the Oregon Department of Justice lawsuit against the federal government alleges that federal government actions have violated Portlanders free speech their due process rights and also resulted in unlawful seizures And they say that they creating a public nuisance In a pretty powerful statement Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum said that the tactics must stop. You know, they not only make it impossible for people to assert their First Amendment rights to protest peacefully, but she says that the federal government's creating a more volatile situation on the streets of Portland.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is this the only lawsuit over this sort of federal law enforcement presence in Portland?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: So the ACLU has also filed a lawsuit, the ACLU of Oregon, with the idea of trying to protect journalists and legal observers from basically being, you know, tear gassed during the protests. A federal judge basically said that the ACLU can expand in its lawsuit the Department of Homeland Security, other parts of the federal government. And so it's a separate lawsuit, but it was filed to sort of protect legal observers, folks out there that are trying to document what's happening.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that also includes journalists. And there's a lot of journalists on the ground. And a lot of them are freelance journalists that are kind of out there filming the incidents every night and providing just another way of documenting what's happening.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think when a lot of people watch these videos, their first reaction is like, who are these federal law enforcement officers? And the second reaction is, can they even do that? Is this legal? Do we know or is this lawsuit going to resolve that question?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: I mean, the president of the United States and the Department of Homeland Security, they have a lot of power. I mean, it's the federal government. But the question is, is what's happening here actually legal?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I tend to think that the Oregon Department of Justice, Ellen Rosenblum, they're doing more than just making a statement by filing the lawsuit saying the federal government wants to leave. I mean, they think that there are legal grounds here where the federal government, the Trump administration, the Department of Homeland Security have have overstepped. And so that's what this lawsuit is, you know, going to answer for us in a way.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I know this is all happening pretty quickly. And we're talking, what, noon Monday. Has the federal government or even President Trump responded in any way at this point? Do you know?
--:-- Conrad Wilson: So yesterday, Trump responded on Twitter like he does. And he said, we're trying to help Portland not hurt it. the leadership has for months lost control of the anarchists and the agitators. He said that we must protect federal property and our people. These are, you know, not merely protesters. These are, quote, the real deal, whatever that means.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It just feels like there must have been a better way here, a better way to protect buildings, protect, you know, a federal courthouse, while also facilitating peaceful protests.
--:-- Conrad Wilson: I think it's reasonable to think that the federal government is going to, just like any government is going to protect buildings. I mean, those are funded by taxpayers. I think that the actions on the 4th of July were an escalation on the part of the federal government. Shooting a protester in the head with a crowd control device, that really escalated the situation. Picking people up in unmarked vehicles wearing military fatigues, that escalates the situation.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so I think that there's probably a better way to go about it than some of the things the federal government has done up until now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Conrad Wilson is a reporter covering legal affairs and criminal justice at Oregon Public Broadcasting. You can find and support his work at opb.org.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We lost a great American over the weekend. Congressman John Lewis died of pancreatic cancer at 80 years of age. We thought about making an episode about his extraordinary life and leadership in the civil rights movement here in the United States, but ultimately decided this was the episode he would have wanted us to make today.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, I got arrested a few times during the 60s. 40 times. And since I've been in Congress another five times. And I'm probably going to get arrested again for something. But my philosophy is very simple. when you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, say something, do something. Get in trouble. Good trouble. Necessary trouble. Thank you.
